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Another killing at the hands of the Police

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1 hour ago, Da Guru said:

If you research the impact riots of this size have on cities it is not pretty.  White flight occurs, poor conditions that black folk were already living in worsen, many stores and business never reopen in the area. Rebuilding is very slow as nobody wants to invest. It can take decades as whatever is burned will eventually get torn down and sit on vacant land that gets overgrown.  It is just a tragic situation.

When I first got out of college I drove down a once vibrant Grand River street in Detroit every day.  The area the Detroit riots started looked like a third world country for decades and was desolate.   

Lots of parts are still that way

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Tool said:

Your post read as if you were trying to provide some justification for what happened

Not at all.  Just informing what some Detroit Police officers talked about and possibly how this can happen when police stop looking at people as people.

Edited by Da Guru

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Does anyone think that President Trump’s use of the word “thugs” and warning that “the shooting starts” will help calm things down? 

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Just now, timschochet said:

Does anyone think that President Trump’s use of the word “thugs” and warning that “the shooting starts” will help calm things down? 

Does anyone think Trump wants things to "calm down"?

The Divider in Chief is executing a political strategy here.

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5 minutes ago, the moops said:

One of my favorite dive bars has burned to the ground. The Hexagon Bar

 

Very sad.   That lot and many others will sit empty for a long long time. 
 

I’ll be interested to see what the governor says here this morning.   The city can’t let this happen again tonight.  

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10 minutes ago, the moops said:

One of my favorite dive bars has burned to the ground. The Hexagon Bar

 

Looks like a great place. I love dive bars.  Probably gone forever.

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4 minutes ago, Da Guru said:

Not at all.  Just informing what some Detroit Police officers talked about and possibly how this can happen when police stop looking at people as people.

On the other hand, I know a Detroit cop who keeps a collection of pictures of all the dead bodies he has found and once alluded to having killed a homeless guy for fun. He was an absolute monster of a person in grade school and high school. Racist, cruel, closeted homosexual who abused women, obsessively wanted everyone else to follow the rules, etc. His dad was a cop who used his police powers to harass the family of his ex-wife. So while there are plenty of good cops (my uncle was an amazing, kind and gentle man), it's also a safe place for some really abusive people.  

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10 minutes ago, BroncoFreak_2K3 said:

Lots of parts are still that way

Yes they are.  And I got out of college 20 years after the riots and it was still a ghost town except for the people who lived in the area walking the streets.

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53 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

I would be wary of "reports" here, and more specifically, whether this practice was allowed/trained by police hierarchy - even in the face of written prohibitions.

 

I don't know any of the background facts here - but if Chauvin and other police officers get up and testify, this was SOP and encouraged method of restraint, and they were simply following their training - it makes for a very murky case against Chauvin.

 

I am not suggesting any of that is true - only leaving open the possibility that is the conversation that is going on behind closed doors.

I think the public interest would be well-served by hearing that sort of testimony under oath.  (If that's what is taking place, of course).

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6 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

Does anyone think Trump wants things to "calm down"?

The Divider in Chief is executing a political strategy here.

So the President has a strategy to make sure cops are killing black suspects?

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10 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Does anyone think that President Trump’s use of the word “thugs” and warning that “the shooting starts” will help calm things down? 

That isn't the President's goal.

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8 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Does anyone think that President Trump’s use of the word “thugs” and warning that “the shooting starts” will help calm things down? 

Not nearly as influential as whether the community organizer Democratic mayor and African American police chief can get their city under control.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

On the other hand, I know a Detroit cop who keeps a collection of pictures of all the dead bodies he has found and once alluded to having killed a homeless guy for fun. He was an absolute monster of a person in grade school and high school. Racist, cruel, closeted homosexual who abused women, obsessively wanted everyone else to follow the rules, etc. His dad was a cop who used his police powers to harass the family of his ex-wife. So while there are plenty of good cops (my uncle was an amazing, kind and gentle man), it's also a safe place for some really abusive people.  

The guys I know are not the best people either.   One guy fractured a guys skull, cheek and nose with a billy club and laughed about it when he told the story. It cost the city 300K in a lawsuit settled out of court. The cop and the man injured were both black but still he could have easily killed the man and had no remorse at all.  That is what I mean when they stop viewing people as actual human beings.  Also he did not get any discipline action. No time off.

Edited by Da Guru
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There are reasons why the Stanford Prison Experiment only lasted a week. We see this experiment play out in real life far too often. Maybe police should have a term limit on them... five years in the streets before they move on to a different profession.

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3 minutes ago, Da Guru said:

The guys I know are not the best people either.   One guy fractured a guys skull, cheek and nose with a billy club and laughed about it when he told the story. It cost the city 300K in a lawsuit settled out of court. The cop and the man injured were both black but still he could have easily killed the man and had no remorse at all.  That is what I mean when they stop viewing people as actual human beings.  Also he did not get any discipline action. No time off.

How does that happen? Is it a blue wall thing? A union thing? 

I realize we don't know all the details, but to settle for $300k means there was SOMETHING amiss there. 

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16 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Does anyone think that President Trump’s use of the word “thugs” and warning that “the shooting starts” will help calm things down? 

I am old enough to remember some people in this forum saying Obama was the most racially divisive president we have ever had. Doubt we will hear a peep of criticism about Trump's tweet from the same crowd. 

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Cop culture needs a hard long look to see how to fix it

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1 minute ago, squistion said:

I am old enough to remember some people in this forum saying Obama was the most racially divisive president we have ever had. Doubt we will hear a peep of criticism about Trump's tweet from the same crowd. 

You should get you feet wet with instagram in case the twitter is shutdown 

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4 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

Cop culture needs a hard long look to see how to fix it

Too often it’s enabled by the DAs and politicians...and the country keeps increasingly militarizing them

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, whoknew said:

How does that happen? Is it a blue wall thing? A union thing? 

I realize we don't know all the details, but to settle for $300k means there was SOMETHING amiss there. 

As a teacher, I can say that there is often a "us vs them" mentality that comes about in schools. It often feels like we are battling the chaos the kids create, we are trying to keep order, carry out the business of the school and the kids don't care or are intentionally undermining us. If there is a student-teacher issue, every school employee seems to take the side of the teacher (excluding anything physical or sexual) because we can all relate to how difficult the kids can be. However, if you ask the more plugged in staff, they know who the good teachers are and who the bad teachers are. They know which teachers escalate situations with kids and which are good at handling tougher cases. Yet publicly, we almost always defend our own. Even in situations where to an outsider, it seems like a teacher overreacted. We teachers will think, "yeah but you probably missed the 500 other times this kid was a total jerk in class before the incident in question." I think a similar thing happens with police but it is just escalated because violence is an acceptable part of the job where in teaching it's not, there are deadly weapons involved, etc. 

Edited by Ilov80s
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5 minutes ago, Sam Quentin said:

Too often it’s enabled by the DAs and politicians...and the country keeps increasingly militarizing them

Right, the checks and balances have not done a good job. 

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1 hour ago, Sinn Fein said:

It might be worth some of your time today to contemplate why that is....

 

What, if anything, can we do to address the root causes of that unrest?

I've thought about it for 30 years - inner cities and some people just want to riot and loot and create chaos and they wait for the moment to do it. 

The root causes are people wanting to destroy things, to vandalize and to steal, to loot and riot.

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Just now, Stealthycat said:

I've thought about it for 30 years - inner cities and some people just want to riot and loot and create chaos and they wait for the moment to do it. 

The root causes are people wanting to destroy things, to vandalize and to steal, to loot and riot.

 

I don't think this is accurate. And I think it ignores/dismisses the reasons behind actions.

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3 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

You should get you feet wet with instagram in case the twitter is shutdown 

So for the record, do you have any problem with Trump's quoting Miami Police Chief Walter Headley from 1967 who said "when the looting stars, the shooting starts" to announce a “get tough” policy for policing black neighborhoods?

Donald J. Trump‏ @realDonaldTrump 9h9 hours ago

I can’t stand back & watch this happen to a great American City, Minneapolis. A total lack of leadership. Either the very weak Radical Left Mayor, Jacob Frey, get his act together and bring the City under control, or I will send in the National Guard & get the job done right.....

....These THUGS are dishonoring the memory of George Floyd, and I won’t let that happen. Just spoke to Governor Tim Walz and told him that the Military is with him all the way. Any difficulty and we will assume control but, when the looting starts, the shooting starts. Thank you!

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Just now, Stealthycat said:

I've thought about it for 30 years - inner cities and some people just want to riot and loot and create chaos and they wait for the moment to do it. 

The root causes are people wanting to destroy things, to vandalize and to steal, to loot and riot.

Honestly don't know whether to laugh or cry.

I would just suggest that people are not born to inherently want "to destroy things, to vandalize and to steal, to loot and riot."

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7 minutes ago, whoknew said:

How does that happen? Is it a blue wall thing? A union thing? 

I realize we don't know all the details, but to settle for $300k means there was SOMETHING amiss there. 

It was 15 years ago. The officers word against the passenger of the vehicles word who witnessed the incident. No body cam or cruiser cam.

DPD ruled it justified force. This was after the DPD had a number of shootings and they wanted this to go away fast. Hardly any media coverage just a blurb.

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1 hour ago, Ilov80s said:

What kind of force? They tried bombing them with tear gas and it didn’t work. Should they open fire? You think that’s doing to de-escalate the situation?

superior force stops situations .... 

look, if you don't want to be gassed or arrested or even shot ... then don't loot, riot and burn maybe?  People don't normally get away with doing those things, which is why i'm saying this is allowed and the people rioting/looting? they know they can get away with it in this small few days window of opportunity without the police really cracking down on them

 

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2 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

I've thought about it for 30 years - inner cities and some people just want to riot and loot and create chaos and they wait for the moment to do it. 

The root causes are people wanting to destroy things, to vandalize and to steal, to loot and riot.

"Some people."

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Just now, Sinn Fein said:

Honestly don't know whether to laugh or cry.

I would just suggest that people are not born to inherently want "to destroy things, to vandalize and to steal, to loot and riot."

I don't know either Sinn Fein

I've seen beautiful people go downhill and just become absolute disgusting horrible and evil .... I can only default and say we're all capable of doing bad things, its the decision NOT to that matters and some people just decide to do bad things. 

Every person looting/rioting decided to do it - its their choice

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1 minute ago, Ramsay Hunt Experience said:

"Some people."

yes some people - not all people are looting and rioting

 

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1 minute ago, Stealthycat said:

superior force stops situations .... 

look, if you don't want to be gassed or arrested or even shot ... then don't loot, riot and burn maybe?  People don't normally get away with doing those things, which is why i'm saying this is allowed and the people rioting/looting? they know they can get away with it in this small few days window of opportunity without the police really cracking down on them

 

I think if the cops opened fire on the protesters at the station, there would be a very good chance what happened in Minnesota last night happens in about 15 other cities tonight. 

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From the Facebook page of a restaurant near the 3rd precinct:

Hello everyone!
Thank you to everyone for checking in. Sadly Gandhi Mahal has caught fire and has been damaged. We won’t loose hope though, I am so greatful for our neighbors who did their best to stand guard and protect Gandhi Mahal, Youre efforts won’t go unrecognized. Don’t worry about us, we will rebuild and we will recover. This is Hafsa, Ruhel’s daughter writing, as I am sitting next to my dad watching the news, I hear him say on the phone; “ let my building burn, Justice needs to be served, put those officers in jail”. Gandhi Mahal May have felt the flames last night, but our firey drive to help protect and stand with our community will never die! Peace be with everyone.  #JusticeforGeorgeFloyd #BLM

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Trump is cheering on the National Guard arriving and the cops are still not in jail?
I wonder which of these would actually calm things down? 🤔 

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1 minute ago, Ilov80s said:

I think if the cops opened fire on the protesters at the station, there would be a very good chance what happened in Minnesota last night happens in about 15 other cities tonight. 

that's possible 

so the other option is to let people riot/loot and burn and destroy for a few days

that's what's being allowed, that's what I've been saying 

I don't agree with it, i don't think it should be allowed, but I'm not making the decisions on that and many business owners and home owners etc are being hurt by it - what about them? Doesn't that matter?

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8 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

I've thought about it for 30 years - inner cities and some people just want to riot and loot and create chaos and they wait for the moment to do it. 

The root causes are people wanting to destroy things, to vandalize and to steal, to loot and riot.

Umm...you may need to think some more if you think people just want to riot and loot...the root cause is not some desire to do so.

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4 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

superior force stops situations .... 

look, if you don't want to be gassed or arrested or even shot ... then don't loot, riot and burn maybe?  People don't normally get away with doing those things, which is why i'm saying this is allowed and the people rioting/looting? they know they can get away with it in this small few days window of opportunity without the police really cracking down on them

 

look, if you want your police station to be burned down....then don't kill helpless citizens and try to cover it up maybe? People don't normally get away with doing that, which is why I'm saying this is allowed and the 4 cops killed someone and weren't arrested? they they can get away with it

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10 minutes ago, tonydead said:

These news guys are nuts.

Twitter, can we get a fact check here!?!?!?!

Sure...what mostly is going on are protests...yet there are people being worse and setting fires.  Seems the overall point of the MSNBC report and what others are saying (who are there and seeing it) is true.

None of which is to say there are not pockets of looting and so on...

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2 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

look, if you want your police station to be burned down....then don't kill helpless citizens and try to cover it up maybe? People don't normally get away with doing that, which is why I'm saying this is allowed and the 4 cops killed someone and weren't arrested? they they can get away with it

you just justified rioting/looting 

wow

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7 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

I think if the cops opened fire on the protesters at the station, there would be a very good chance what happened in Minnesota last night happens in about 15 other cities tonight. 

And worse...and immediately puts the police in further danger.

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2 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

that's possible 

so the other option is to let people riot/loot and burn and destroy for a few days

that's what's being allowed, that's what I've been saying 

I don't agree with it, i don't think it should be allowed, but I'm not making the decisions on that and many business owners and home owners etc are being hurt by it - what about them? Doesn't that matter?

Sometimes the best way to calm a situation down is to walk away and let the outburst run it's course. I strongly believe the last thing Minnesota needs is more people killed by the police right now. 

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2 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Umm...you may need to think some more if you think people just want to riot and loot...the root cause is not some desire to do so.

yes, its exactly that

looting isn't a protest, destroying your OWN NEIGHBORHOOD isn't a protest .... its rioting and looting, destroying and stealing and vandalizing and when the smoke clears, nothing and I mean NOTHING good has come from it

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2 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Umm...you may need to think some more if you think people just want to riot and loot...the root cause is not some desire to do so.

yes, its exactly that

looting isn't a protest, destroying your OWN NEIGHBORHOOD isn't a protest .... its rioting and looting, destroying and stealing and vandalizing and when the smoke clears, nothing and I mean NOTHING good has come from it

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Just now, Stealthycat said:

you just justified rioting/looting 

wow

I just flipped what you said 

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1 minute ago, Ilov80s said:

Sometimes the best way to calm a situation down is to walk away and let the outburst run it's course. I strongly believe the last thing Minnesota needs is more people killed by the police right now. 

I strongly disagree with accepting rioting/looting and you and I will never see it the same i think

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5 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

that's possible 

so the other option is to let people riot/loot and burn and destroy for a few days

that's what's being allowed, that's what I've been saying 

I don't agree with it, i don't think it should be allowed, but I'm not making the decisions on that and many business owners and home owners etc are being hurt by it - what about them? Doesn't that matter?

The option is to arrest the officers involved...for local authorities to make a public announcement that calms people rather than fanning the flames (including possibly a resignation or taking a leave of absence and announcing an open investigation into the situation and overall training of local police)...and to not have a POTUS fanning the flames and basically threatening violence by the National Guard.

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2 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

yes, its exactly that

looting isn't a protest, destroying your OWN NEIGHBORHOOD isn't a protest .... its rioting and looting, destroying and stealing and vandalizing and when the smoke clears, nothing and I mean NOTHING good has come from it

But that is not the root cause...people are not just inherently angry and destructive...

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