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​ 🏛️ ​Official Supreme Court nomination thread - Amy Coney Barrett (12 Viewers)

There will be before the 2020 election reforms for Federal Elections. 

Those wascally Republicans will not be able to cheat anymore.

It is helpful to read these threads so you know who to ignore because they seem to be so fragile. 

Getting quite a list, why do they all same to be on the same side?

 
rodg12 said:
Hey powers that be...this guy just admitted to a felony on your message board.  Can you please send his IP and information to the proper authorities?  He should probably just self-report consider how much he's apparently against fraudulent voting.
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"Democrats don't care about illegal voting because illegal voters vote for them!  I know it because I, a rabid Trump supporter, voted illegally!"

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
That a no they didn’t or yes it’s easy to claim you’re someone else?
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It appears that Russia did some funny things. Perhaps they even did manage to hack the elections. Do you think they sent over a couple hundred thousand Russians who illegally voted in the election?

 
Mario Kart said:
It’s really not from both sides... currently. The way Republicans are going about stuff is... just wrong. They complain for 8 years about ramming bills through, which was never the case, and now they are taking that reality and ramming things through like never before in our history. It’s cruel, unusual, damning, and dangerous to what America is supposed to be about. And, Republicans seem to be okay with the bastardization of our Constitution, rule of law, and intelligence. It’s disgusting. 
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The GOP isn't going to change for the better, expect them to get even worse. How do you deal with it?

 
proninja said:
We do track who votes. Parties do for sure. They rank voters by likleihood of securing their vote and can specifically target any demographic they want down to the neighborhood level. 
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Governments track who votes.  It’s how Republican state legislators in states like Ohio came up with the idea of un-registering voters who sat out the last couple elections and making them re-register if they want to vote next time.  

There’s also less nefarious reasons, like using voting data to select polling places and allocate voting machines.  

 
JohnnyU said:
You really need to get out of your parents basement
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So this is obviously a pathetic, juvenile insult. And it's obvious to me you're lashing out there because you are unable or unwilling to address the substantive critiques of your voter ID arguments.

But it also doesn't make a lick of sense as applied to left-leaning posters.  The stereotype of a posting from one's parents' basement is of an (obviously) single suburban/rural man who spends a lot of time online. I don't think I've ever heard the insult directed at a woman. But single suburban/rural men who spend a lot of time online are decidedly NOT a left-leaning demographic, so ...?

 
TobiasFunke said:
So this is obviously a pathetic, juvenile insult. And it's obvious to me you're lashing out there because you are unable or unwilling to address the substantive critiques of your voter ID arguments.

But it also doesn't make a lick of sense as applied to left-leaning posters.  The stereotype of a posting from one's parents' basement is of an (obviously) single suburban/rural man who spends a lot of time online. I don't think I've ever heard the insult directed at a woman. But single suburban/rural men who spend a lot of time online are decidedly NOT a left-leaning demographic, so ...?
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I never saw data on this. Is there any correlation to any particular political demo?

 
Dedfin said:
I think he knows what he wants. He just knows he can't directly say it, and it is very difficult to make the point while dancing around the root motivation. It's a tough job.
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Can't say what?  That I want American citizens only voting?  Of course I do.

 
Dedfin said:
I never saw data on this. Is there any correlation to any particular political demo?
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Not sure what you're asking here.  Male and suburban/rural are both right-leaning demos, so obviously it's a safe bet that if you combine the two the demo would be far to the right.

 
If voter registration were an automatic process when you registered your address with a government agency like getting a driver's license, filling out a Change Of Address form, signing up for utility service, etc., I could see the argument for requiring showing ID on Election Day.  But registering to vote is its own separate action that has a vetting process than requires you to prove you are who you are.  It's like people forget that happens when we discuss alleged voter fraud.  

"You should have to show your ID when you vote" is a logical statement in a vacuum.  But people falsely representing who they are by voting without an ID and passing themselves off as someone else at polling places doesn't happen.  The problem doesn't exist.  People like Kris Kobach have spent years trying to prove it exists and have failed.  There's the occasional case of the old white person moving across state lines but voting absentee at their old address, but that's not undocumented immigrants voting and requiring to show ID at in-person voting stations doesn't solve that problem.   

 
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JohnnyU said:
Can't say what?  That I want American citizens only voting?  Of course I do.
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As has been explained to you repeatedly and you've refused to address repeatedly, that's already the case. You're attempting to solve a problem that doesn't exist, and your solution would create real problems, namely posing needless new barriers for American citizens who want to vote. If you want to do something that blatantly un-democratic and IMO un-American, you better have a good reason for it.  But you've offered no reason that withstands any scrutiny at all.

You all complain all the time about how this place is a liberal echo chamber. So here you go- I'm giving you a chance to explain why one of your ideas is a good one. I promise I'll hear you out and respond once you maker a substantive point in defense, one that you can back with evidence and whose logic stands up after 30 seconds of consideration.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Not sure what you're asking here.  Male and suburban/rural are both right-leaning demos, so obviously it's a safe bet that if you combine the two the demo would be far to the right.
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I think I read into your and the previous post. I thought you were saying something specifically about adult males that live at home with their parents.

 
TobiasFunke said:
As has been explained to you repeatedly and you've refused to address repeatedly, that's already the case. You're attempting to solve a problem that doesn't exist, and your solution would create real problems, namely posing needless new barriers for American citizens who want to vote. If you want to do something that blatantly un-democratic and IMO un-American, you better have a good reason for it.  But you've offered no reason that withstands any scrutiny at all.

You all complain all the time about how this place is a liberal echo chamber. So here you go- I'm giving you a chance to explain why one of your ideas is a good one. I promise I'll hear you out and respond once you maker a substantive point in defense, one that you can back with evidence and whose logic stands up after 30 seconds of consideration.
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https://www.nationalreview.com/2012/04/why-we-need-voter-id-laws-now-john-fund/

Average voters understand that it’s only common sense to require ID because of how easy it is for people to pretend they are someone else.  Filmmaker James O’Keefe demonstrated just how easy it is in 2012 when he dispatched an assistant to the Nebraska Avenue polling place in Washington where Attorney General Holder has been registered for the last 29 years. O’Keefe specializes in the same use of hidden cameras that was pioneered by the recently deceased Mike Wallace, who used the technique to devastating effect in exposing fraud in Medicare claims and consumer products on 60 Minutes. O’Keefe’s efforts helped expose the fraud-prone voter-registration group ACORN with his video stings, and has had great success demonstrating in 2012 in New Hampshire, Vermont, and Minnesota just how easy it is to obtain a ballot by giving the name of a dead person who is still on the rolls. Indeed, a new study by the Pew Research Center found at least 1.8 million dead people are still registered to vote. They aren’t likely to complain if someone votes in their place.

In Washington, it was child’s play for O’Keefe to beat the system. O’Keefe’s assistant used a hidden camera to document his encounter with the election worker at Holder’s polling place:

Man: “Do you have an Eric Holder, 50th Street?

Poll worker: “Let me see here.”

Man: Xxxx 50th Street.

Poll Worker: Let’s see, Holder, Hol-t-e-r, or Hold-d-e-r?

Man: H-o-l-d-e-r.

Poll Worker: D-e-r. Okay.

Man: That’s the name.

Poll Worker: I do. Xxxx 50th Street NW. Okay. [Puts check next to name, indicating someone has shown up to vote.] Will you sign there . . . 

Man: I actually forgot my ID.

Poll Worker: You don’t need it; it’s all right.

Man: I left it in the car.

Poll Worker: As long as you’re in here, and you’re on our list and that’s who you say you are, we’re okay.

Man: I would feel more comfortable if I go get my ID, is it all right if I go get it?

Poll Worker: Sure, go ahead.

Man: I’ll be back faster than you can say furious!

Poll Worker: We’re not going anywhere.

Note that O’Keefe’s assistant never identified himself as Eric Holder, so he was not illegally impersonating him.

Nor did he attempt to vote using the ballot that was offered him, or even to accept it. O’Keefe has been accused by liberals of committing voter fraud in his effort to expose just how slipshod the election systems of various no-ID-required states are, but lawyers say his methods avoid that issue. Moreover, he has only taped his encounters with election officials in jurisdictions that allow videotaping someone in public with only one party’s knowledge.

There is something surreal about the voter-ID issue. As James O’Keefe demonstrates, it is comically easy to commit voter fraud in person, and, unless someone confesses, it’s very difficult to ever detect. With absentee balloting, there is a paper trail that makes it easier to uncover fraud, making it a problem that even some critics of photo ID will admit.

Other than hypotheticals, there are very few cases of legitimate voters who were unable to have their vote counted because they lacked ID. People who show up without photo ID at the polls are allowed to cast a provisional ballot that is counted after proof of identity is offered.

 
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Dedfin said:
I think I read into your and the previous post. I thought you were saying something specifically about adult males that live at home with their parents.
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Nah, just saying "posting from your mother's basement" is a really weird insult for these posters to be throwing at left-leaning posters given the stereotype/demographics. It's like telling a right-leaning poster to take it to the barista at his fair trade coffee shop in Williamsburg.

 
JohnnyU said:
Average voters understand that it’s only common sense to require ID because of how easy it is for people to pretend they are someone else.  Filmmaker James O’Keefe demonstrated just how easy it is in 2012 when he dispatched an assistant to the Nebraska Avenue polling place in Washington where Attorney General Holder has been registered for the last 29 years. O’Keefe specializes in the same use of hidden cameras that was pioneered by the recently deceased Mike Wallace, who used the technique to devastating effect in exposing fraud in Medicare claims and consumer products on 60 Minutes. O’Keefe’s efforts helped expose the fraud-prone voter-registration group ACORN with his video stings, and has had great success demonstrating this year in New Hampshire, Vermont, and Minnesota just how easy it is to obtain a ballot by giving the name of a dead person who is still on the rolls. Indeed, a new study by the Pew Research Center found at least 1.8 million dead people are still registered to vote. They aren’t likely to complain if someone votes in their place.
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If only there was some way to tabulate if these dead people actually voted....

 
JohnnyU said:
Average voters understand that it’s only common sense to require ID because of how easy it is for people to pretend they are someone else.  Filmmaker James O’Keefe demonstrated just how easy it is in 2012 when he dispatched an assistant to the Nebraska Avenue polling place in Washington where Attorney General Holder has been registered for the last 29 years. O’Keefe specializes in the same use of hidden cameras that was pioneered by the recently deceased Mike Wallace, who used the technique to devastating effect in exposing fraud in Medicare claims and consumer products on 60 Minutes. O’Keefe’s efforts helped expose the fraud-prone voter-registration group ACORN with his video stings, and has had great success demonstrating in 2012 in New Hampshire, Vermont, and Minnesota just how easy it is to obtain a ballot by giving the name of a dead person who is still on the rolls. Indeed, a new study by the Pew Research Center found at least 1.8 million dead people are still registered to vote. They aren’t likely to complain if someone votes in their place.
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You're relying on O'Keefe?  He's a known fraud who doctors his videos, had to pay $100,000 to an ACORN employee and was required to apologize in open court.  

 
I don't think anyone has disputed that a person could impersonate another person and go vote. I could get up at the crack of dawn and go to a local polling place and cast a vote for my neighbor who I know sleeps in.

That is missing the point though. You are espousing a view that this happens thousands of times by random illegal immigrants in hopes of? In hopes of getting what? A sympathetic politician in office who has a crazy uphill batlle to what? To get more illegals into this country so more of them can risk deportation and/or jail to go cast a vote?

 
rodg12 said:
LOL at Mr. Common Sense JohnnyU basing things on convicted and discredited Scam Artist James O'Keefe.  Liberal tears overflowing here again laughing.  :lmao: :lmao:  
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The editorial asserted that voter fraud is a “minuscule” problem and that I failed to show that any of the 221 incidents of voter fraud reported in Kansas between 1997 and 2010 resulted in convictions.

In fact, I presented this information to the Kansas legislature in January, and the numbers were extensively reported by the media. The 221 incidents of voter fraud included absentee ballot fraud, impersonation of another voter and other crimes. The vast majority of the cases were never investigated fully because Kansas county attorneys lack the time and resources to pursue voter fraud at the expense of other criminal investigations. Of the approximately 30 cases that were fully investigated, seven resulted in prosecutions. All seven yielded convictions.

The frequency of voter fraud in Kansas is not unusual. Unfortunately, voter fraud has become a well-documented reality in American elections.

The editorial cited figures from New York University’s Brennan Center comparing the number of reported cases of voter fraud in a state to the number of votes cast in the state. Not surprisingly, the percentages are small."

 
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rodg12 said:
An opinion piece written by Kris Kobach.  :lmao:   Go back a page and read about him from Bruce Dickinson.
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So, you leftist laugh at everyone who provides reasonable dialogue on voter fraud....got it.  I'm sure I could dig up a lot more instances of voter fraud that could be curtailed with voter IDs.

 
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JohnnyU said:
Average voters understand that it’s only common sense to require ID because of how easy it is for people to pretend they are someone else.  Filmmaker James O’Keefe demonstrated just how easy it is in 2012 when he dispatched an assistant to the Nebraska Avenue polling place in Washington where Attorney General Holder has been registered for the last 29 years. O’Keefe specializes in the same use of hidden cameras that was pioneered by the recently deceased Mike Wallace, who used the technique to devastating effect in exposing fraud in Medicare claims and consumer products on 60 Minutes. O’Keefe’s efforts helped expose the fraud-prone voter-registration group ACORN with his video stings, and has had great success demonstrating this year in New Hampshire, Vermont, and Minnesota just how easy it is to obtain a ballot by giving the name of a dead person who is still on the rolls. Indeed, a new study by the Pew Research Center found at least 1.8 million dead people are still registered to vote. They aren’t likely to complain if someone votes in their place.
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OK, so your argument is that we should use voter ID because otherwise people could use the names of dead people to vote twice? 

I still think this is a terrible argument, and I'll explain why, but at least it's an attempt, so thanks for that. Anyway, here's what you'd have to do to commit voter fraud by pretending to be a dead person at the polls:

1.  You'd have to know that the person is dead and you have to know the exact precinct where they are registered. If you get this wrong you will have been caught red-handed committing a felony

2. You have to know that the dead person has not yet been stricken from the voter registration rolls. If you get this wrong you will have been caught red-handed committing a felony.

3. You have to know that none of the volunteers working the polling site when you go there to try to cast your illegitimate vote knows the dead person you are impersonating. Same goes for the people close enough to you in line to hear you give your name to the volunteers. This is quite a risk given that precincts are fairly small.  If you get this wrong you will have been caught red-handed committing a felony.

Honestly, does this risk seem like a good idea for the reward of casting a single vote?  Do you think a single human being could look at the cost/benefit here and decide casting their one illegitimate vote that has basically no chance of altering the results for anything on the ballot and decide it's still worth it?

You know why O'Keefe was able to get that footage?  Because none of this stuff is true from his standpoint.  He has no downside because he stopped before voting so no criminal exposure.  He has the resources to figure out exactly which dead people might still be on the polls in which precincts. His upside is far greater than simply casting one vote- if he succeeds he gets red meat to give to his right-leaning supporters. And if/when he was caught, he could simply delete or not disclose that footage. It's not remotely the situation an actual potential fraudulent voter would face. Until he actually records and releases every attempt to obtain a ballot improperly, and also goes through with voting in an attempt to simulate the actual risks and benefits of voter fraud, his work is just meaningless pandering.

 
So when JohnnyU describes a Kris Kobach editorial as an article from the liberal Washington Post, is it because he's trying to trick us and doesn't think we'll click on the link?  Or is it that he actually thinks that is an apt description of the piece?  I don't know which is worse. 

 
JohnnyU said:
So, you leftist laugh at everyone who provides reasonable dialogue on voter fraud....got it.  I'm sure I could dig up a lot more instances of voter fraud that could be curtailed with voter IDs.
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Please do.  Your beloved Kobach has been trying for years and years to do so and has failed.

 
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fatguyinalittlecoat said:
So when JohnnyU describes a Kris Kobach editorial as an article from the liberal Washington Post, is it because he's trying to trick us and doesn't think we'll click on the link?  Or is it that he actually thinks that is an apt description of the piece?  I don't know which is worse. 
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All you leftist do is misdirect. You know voter fraud is out there and that voter ids could help with it.  Admit it!!!

 
JohnnyU said:
Then perhaps the article from the Liberal Washington Post is more credible for you

"

The editorial asserted that voter fraud is a “minuscule” problem and that I failed to show that any of the 221 incidents of voter fraud reported in Kansas between 1997 and 2010 resulted in convictions.

In fact, I presented this information to the Kansas legislature in January, and the numbers were extensively reported by the media. The 221 incidents of voter fraud included absentee ballot fraud, impersonation of another voter and other crimes. The vast majority of the cases were never investigated fully because Kansas county attorneys lack the time and resources to pursue voter fraud at the expense of other criminal investigations. Of the approximately 30 cases that were fully investigated, seven resulted in prosecutions. All seven yielded convictions.

The frequency of voter fraud in Kansas is not unusual. Unfortunately, voter fraud has become a well-documented reality in American elections.

The editorial cited figures from New York University’s Brennan Center comparing the number of reported cases of voter fraud in a state to the number of votes cast in the state. Not surprisingly, the percentages are small."
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You cited an opinion column written by a reviled and discredited voter fraud crusader as being an "article from the Liberal Washington Post"?

Come on.

 
How did we get to the point where we have well off educated people not being able to tell the difference between frauds and con artists and reality? Has it always been like this? Do older people just fall for this stuff easier? :confused:

 
Dedfin said:
How did we get to the point where we have well off educated people not being able to tell the difference between frauds and con artists and reality? Has it always been like this? Do older people just fall for this stuff easier? :confused:
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But if I read it on the internet it has to be true, right?

 
rodg12 said:
It was an OPINION column in the Washington Post written by Kris Kobach.  Did you even read it?
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Of course I read it.  Just saying there are a lot of people out there that give good "opinions" about voter fraud.  Saying it doesn't exist is BS and we both know voter IDs could help.

 
You guys are really funny when you select a few outlets you don't agree with, and you readily accept and eat up anything you see on the MSM, including newspapers, magazines, on line shows, opinion pieces etc. etc. etc. 

You guys are in my opinion are the ones that have no clue of what is happening in this country and are being used to spread DNC talking points. 

Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Click to expand...

 
JohnnyU said:
All you leftist do is misdirect. You know voter fraud is out there and that voter ids could help with it.  Admit it!!!
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I'll go ahead and pull some of the text I linked about Kobach and his attempts to demonstrate voter fraud in a courtroom. Maybe after you read it you can share with us whether you still think this is misdirection and that Kobach is a valid source of information:
 

But things didn’t go well for him in the Kansas City courtroom, as Robinson’s opinion made clear. Kobach’s strongest evidence of non-citizen registration was anemic at best: Over a 20-year period, fewer than 40 non-citizens had attempted to register in one Kansas county that had 130,000 voters. Most of those 40 improper registrations were the result of mistakes or confusion rather than intentional attempts to mislead, and only five of the 40 managed to cast a vote.

One of Kobach’s own experts even rebutted arguments made by both Kobach and President Donald Trump. The expert testified that a handful of improper registrations could not be extrapolated to conclude that 2.8 million fraudulent votes — roughly, the gap between Hillary Clinton and Trump in the popular vote tally — had been cast in the 2016 presidential election. Testimony from a second key expert for Kobach also fizzled.

As the judge’s opinion noted, Kobach insisted the meager instances of cheating revealed at trial are just “the tip of the iceberg.” As she explained, “This trial was his opportunity to produce credible evidence of that iceberg, but he failed to do so.” Dismissing the testimony by Kobach’s witnesses as unpersuasive, Robinson drew what she called “the more obvious conclusion that there is no iceberg; only an icicle largely created by confusion and administrative error.”

By the time the trial was over, Kobach, a charismatic 52-year-old whose broad shoulders and imposing height make him resemble an aging quarterback, seemed to have shrunk inside his chair at the defense table.
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BTW the judge in question was a W appointee.

 
Dedfin said:
How did we get to the point where we have well off educated people not being able to tell the difference between frauds and con artists and reality? Has it always been like this? Do older people just fall for this stuff easier? :confused:
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The MSM targets the people that they know need it to continue their narrative.

 
JohnnyU said:
Of course I read it.  Just saying there are a lot of people out there that give good "opinions" about voter fraud.  Saying it doesn't exist is BS and we both know voter IDs could help.
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Except we've been saying that it doesn't exist in significant numbers, and that voter ID laws wouldn't help, for several pages. And we've carefully explained why that's the case, using logical arguments and facts and citations. And you haven't been able to rebut a single word of any of it. So who's shoveling BS, exactly?

 
TobiasFunke said:
I'll go ahead and pull some of the text I linked about Kobach and his attempts to demonstrate voter fraud in a courtroom. Maybe after you read it you can share with us whether you still think this is misdirection and that Kobach is a valid source of information:
 

BTW the judge in question was a W appointee.
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Ok, I agree, there is no voter fraud in America and we shouldn't worry ourselves about it.  Having said that, look for voter ID laws coming to a state near you.

 
JohnnyU said:
Ok, I agree, there is no voter fraud in America and we shouldn't worry ourselves about it.  Having said that, look for voter ID laws coming to a state near you.
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I didn't say there's no voter fraud. I'm sure there's a couple nutjobs out there in a country of 325 million.  I said there's no voter fraud problem, certainly not to the point that it outweighs te importance of removing barriers for people to participate in democracy.  Do you agree? If so, why do you support voter ID laws?

 
Qanon said:
you readily accept and eat up anything you see on the MSM, including newspapers, magazines, on line shows, opinion pieces etc. etc. etc. 
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That is a lie.  I don’t care if Q himself directed you to come in here and say that.  It isn’t true, you should be ashamed to say it, and you should retract it and apologize. 

 
JohnnyU said:
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
So when JohnnyU describes a Kris Kobach editorial as an article from the liberal Washington Post, is it because he's trying to trick us and doesn't think we'll click on the link?  Or is it that he actually thinks that is an apt description of the piece?  I don't know which is worse. 
Click to expand...
All you leftist do is misdirect. You know voter fraud is out there and that voter ids could help with it.  Admit it!!!
Click to expand...
I know voter fraud is out there similarly to the idea that I know big foot is out there.  I mean people can show me sketchy evidence for it but honestly if there is one big foot out there does it really matter?

 
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