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coolnerd

Houston Texans Thread- Now a real ringleader @ QB

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Houston Texans: The Texans should be well-positioned in terms of salary cap space, especially after making some cap-saving moves. They'd also save about $7 million by releasing Arian Foster; $2.3 million by releasing Rahim Moore, who should be allowed to seek opportunities elsewhere; and another $2.4 million by releasing Garrett Graham, who was inactive once the Texans had two other healthy tight ends. Those are some obvious potential moves, but many more could follow and give the Texans some good financial flexibility heading into free agency. -- Tania Ganguli

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The scoop: "Christian's a very talented guy, but there's a lot of talented quarterbacks in this league. To stand up here and answer whether a guy has starting ability, I mean it is very, very difficult to start at quarterback in this league." -- Texans coach Bill O'Brien

The skinny: It was a strange tap dance for O'Brien on Thursday. He was pelted with one Hackenberg question after another and deflecting much of it. But this is not going away anytime soon. The Texans need a quarterback (ask their owner how badly) and O'Brien had success coaching Hackenberg at Penn State. This one's too easy.

 

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Anyone buying the RG3 to Houston rumors?  Do you think O'Brien could revive his career?  What would his contract look like?  Discuss.

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45 minutes ago, Meecrob said:

Anyone buying the RG3 to Houston rumors?  Do you think O'Brien could revive his career?  What would his contract look like?  Discuss.

I posted on fan board a few weeks ago and it still stands

 

"there are much worse things i read on this board than taking a shot on a 26 year old QB drafted 1.2 that we have at least seen play good NFL QB. as long as he is not brought in as savior/ presumed starter and has to prove that both his knee and ego are in check, there might not be a better upside play available. Like most of these ideas, it is about the combination of investment and expectation for me."

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Parting words from Arian:

 

https://instagram.fhou1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/t51.2885-15/sh0.08/e35/p750x750/12716984_985229854846526_1419841740_n.jpg?ig_cache_key=MTE5Nzk2NzUwNzAwOTM4ODI3Nw%3D%3D.2

 

in 2009 I flew to Houston with every piece of clothing I owned and told my mother I wasn't coming home. I'll find my way. ambitious for an undrafted rookie that knew nothing about anything. but that's exactly what I did. this ride has had a multitude of ups and downs, but perspective is key. I've got 7 years of beautiful memories with teammates, staff and coaches I'll never forget. thank you all for being a part of this journey. people that I call friends and brothers have all contributed to the success of what we did on the field, and also to the person that I am off. with everything in me, I love and respect the men and women you are. you are a part of me for good. and to the city of houston, I genuinely appreciate every ounce of love I've ever gotten. from seeing a small kid to an 80 year old man wear my jersey. I never took it for granted. we're all just guessing our way through life, being the best people we can, and the people of this city have put a lot of joy in the hearts of my self and my family. onward we march, it's been real. nothing but love on this end. ??

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On March 4, 2016 at 0:41 PM, coolnerd said:

I posted on fan board a few weeks ago and it still stands

 

"there are much worse things i read on this board than taking a shot on a 26 year old QB drafted 1.2 that we have at least seen play good NFL QB. as long as he is not brought in as savior/ presumed starter and has to prove that both his knee and ego are in check, there might not be a better upside play available. Like most of these ideas, it is about the combination of investment and expectation for me."

I'm much more ok with this strategy than most I know provided that they treat it like the risk it is.

It's time for the Texans to try a few gambles to finally got their QB. I'm ok chasing upside in FA and the draft so long as each doesn't preclude the other. Sign a risky FA AND draft an upside QB or draft two QBs to hope one pans out.

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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/03/07/report-houston-expected-to-call-brock-osweilers-agent-today/

Looks like the Texans will take a stab at Osweiler..The Texans have Cap room both this year and in the future to beat the offer from Denver

offer link

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/03/05/report-broncos-offer-osweiler-3-year-deal-worth-more-than-45m/

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Not sure how I feel about Osweiler, guess it would all depend on what the contract looked like if we got him. Does seem like a better idea than trying to trade up or to gamble on just a late first or second round QB prospect although wouldn't mind seeing them still spend a 2nd or 3rd on a QB, especially if Hackenberg is there late. But would hate to blow all that cap space on a guy who looks pretty unknown at this point.

 

I figured we would be going after a safety or a RB in FA to be honest, not trying to get in a bidding war on a QB.

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2 hours ago, Buckna said:

Not sure how I feel about Osweiler, guess it would all depend on what the contract looked like if we got him. Does seem like a better idea than trying to trade up or to gamble on just a late first or second round QB prospect although wouldn't mind seeing them still spend a 2nd or 3rd on a QB, especially if Hackenberg is there late. But would hate to blow all that cap space on a guy who looks pretty unknown at this point.

 

I figured we would be going after a safety or a RB in FA to be honest, not trying to get in a bidding war on a QB.

The Texans are in QB purgatory where none of the "answers" come without plenty of questions

1) Draft pick- If you trade up losing other assets for a guy who projects to be a starting level guy or waiting probably yields a guy who needs a couple of years.

2) Free Agents/trade- Pay significant price for a young who is more known than a draft pick, but is still unknown as a week to week, year to year starter or sign another Hoyer/Fitzpatrick guy to get the team through another season to do the same. 

3) Stay with same (well that actually is hell) 

That said Osweiler feels real Texans like..I doubt he is going to be just awful, but does he have more upside than being on Matt Schuab level?  Not exciting, but probably safer than anything else available and an improvement over what the next 3-4 years look like without him. 

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2 hours ago, Buckna said:

Not sure how I feel about Osweiler, guess it would all depend on what the contract looked like if we got him. Does seem like a better idea than trying to trade up or to gamble on just a late first or second round QB prospect although wouldn't mind seeing them still spend a 2nd or 3rd on a QB, especially if Hackenberg is there late. But would hate to blow all that cap space on a guy who looks pretty unknown at this point.

 

I figured we would be going after a safety or a RB in FA to be honest, not trying to get in a bidding war on a QB.

Considering where we draft, and the likelihood we don't move into the top 10 in the draft to get Goff or Wentz, it looks like our pools at 22 would be:

QB - Lynch, Cook, Hackenberg (also Prescott, Jones, Hogan, Allen, Kessler which are projected later in the draft)

RB - Elliott, Henry (also Booker, Dixon, Collins, Drake)

 

Also looking at the FA's it has this sort of pool:

QB - Osweiler, Griffin III, Daniel, Hasselbeck, Weeden

RB - Forte, Miller, Martin, Ivory, Morris, Johnson, Hillman, Blount

 

Looking at the above lists, the hard part appears that the FA RB pool is much deeper but the QB draftable pool at 22 is much more shallow. It becomes more clear why we're out in front of the FA QBs, but if provided the varying degrees of risks in option(s), which would appeal more to everyone?

 

Option A (heavy QB FA $$) - Osweiler, Booker (draft), Allen (draft)

Option B (heavy RB FA $$) - Miller/Martin, Lynch (draft), Drake (draft)

Option C (light QB FA $$) - Griffin III, Lynch (draft), Dixon (draft)

Option D (light RB FA $$) - Ivory/Morris, Elliott (draft), Hackenberg (draft)

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Probably Option A, but honestly don't think we will get Osweiler, Denver will be screwed if they let him walk. Honestly feels like he is just testing the waters to drive up his ultimate price to stay in Denver.

 

Pretty much a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

 

We're also leaving out the variable that Hopkins is gonna get some serious coin in an extension. Gotta figure Julio, Dez, & DT range plus 5% to 10% (something like $75M, about $50M guaranteed)

Edited by Buckna

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I'd lean towards option C. Sign someone like RG3 and draft at least one QB in the draft, but preferably two. Wide open four horse race in camp and the top three stay. At least with Griffin he's played at a top level so he's more proven thus far than Osweiler and would come cheaper but also likely means we'd be ok still drafting another QB or two to hopefully find someone who can stabilize the role. 

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3 hours ago, coolnerd said:

Benjamin Allbright ‏@AllbrightNFL 30m30 minutes ago
Lamar Miller to the #Texans appears "very likely."

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/03/08/report-texans-working-toward-a-deal-with-lamar-miller/

Quote

Ian Rapoport of NFL Media reports that the team is “working toward a deal” with Lamar Miller ahead of the start of the league year on Wednesday. Other reports have indicated that Miller is unlikely to return to the Dolphins, who made him a fourth-round pick in 2012 and often heard criticism for not making enough use of the back over his four years in Miami.

Miller, who turns 25 in April, averaged 4.6 yards per carry during those years, but averaged about 15 touches per game during his three years as the team’s starter. The Texans have given their running backs more to do in recent years, although they’d love to find a quarterback who could make both parts of their offensive attack effective during the 2016 season.

 

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I like Miller ok, but I'm expecting him to be expensive. I was hoping we'd grab a cheaper guy like Alfred Morris or Chris Ivory.

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All depends on $ amt of contract I guess. I do like him the best of available RB's and much better than a Doug Martin for example that will expect top dollar, has a bad injury history, and is already old. Still think I would prefer us to draft someone at RB as Miller is likely to be pretty expensive.

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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/03/08/report-broncos-osweiler-havent-negotiated-since-team-made-opening-offer/

Quote

With Peyton Manning retired, an ominous note arrives from James Palmer of NFL Media, who reports that the Broncos have not negotiated with Osweiler’s representatives since making an initial offer to Osweiler several days ago.

It’s not known whether the offer from the Broncos was made in response to a demand from Osweiler’s agent, Jimmy Sexton, or whether the Broncos made the first move. The safer guess is that Osweiler stated an opening position, the Broncos responded, and now Denver is waiting to hear back from Sexton.

 

Edited by coolnerd

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ganguli_tania_m.jpg

Tania Ganguli ESPN Staff Writer 

The Tennessee Titans have reached an agreement in principle to sign Texans center Ben Jones. Jones was the Texans starter in 2015 after the team cut longtime center Chris Myers. Jones has also started at guard for the Texans prior to 2015. He was a fourth-round draft pick in 2012. No deals can be official until Wednesday at 4 pm eastern.

 

 

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15 hours ago, Buckna said:

All depends on $ amt of contract I guess. I do like him the best of available RB's and much better than a Doug Martin for example that will expect top dollar, has a bad injury history, and is already old. Still think I would prefer us to draft someone at RB as Miller is likely to be pretty expensive.

27 is not old. If you sign these guys to the right deal, you should only be paying them for 3 years anyway with easily cut-able 4th and 5th years. Personally, I'd expect someone more compact like Doug to hold up better between the tackles. I'm much more impressed with 288 @ 4.9 on Tampa than 194 @ 4.5 on Miami. Doug had maturity/conditioning issues his first 3 years. Either way, I don't really want to pay either of them. I think they are both overrated coming into free agency. Would still prefer we sign Alf and invest in other positions of need.

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Martin's birthday is January 13th, he is an old 27 and will turn 28 right at the end of the 2016 season. I'm not overly confident with someone that does nothing other than blowup in a handful of games in his rookie season and finally explodes in his contract year, and I say this as a dynasty owner. And FWIW, TB's o'line ranked 9th overall in run blocking advanced metrics for 2015, Miami was 28th.

 

As much as I like him and think he is underrated, no thanks on Alf, he can't catch. We already have a RB that can't catch in Alfred Blue. Miller can do it both, is much younger than Doug, and honestly I think will be cheaper but I guess we will see the numbers soon.

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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/03/09/texans-add-brock-osweiler/

New QB...contract details to follow, but early things are that it is real QB money so early pick is doubtful

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/03/09/osweiler-gets-18m-a-year-from-texans-broncos-offered-16m/

 

4 years at 18 million a year

Edited by coolnerd

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In the FA thread, Brandon Brooks is gone to the Eagles but reports are we are signing Jeff Allen from KC which is a big improvement IMO.

 

Not sure how I feel about us spending like drunken sailors, but I guess we will have a better idea once the dust settles.

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I hope Osweiller works out, I do like him more than what we had last year at least.  Though would have rather gotten a good rookie prospect and had the advantage of the lower salary, I can see the wisdom in not counting on the fact anyone you want will be there when you pick.

And damn we have so many holes to fill on offense.  I hope you're right about Allen being better than Brooks, Buckna.

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I will give them the benefit of the doubt for adding some excitement to the team today. They got better at three positions. It frees them up to do some things in the draft too now. Now I'm actually hoping we end up with Hackenberg or another quarterback somewhere in the middle rounds as a guy to stash and develop and if he becomes a player you have a good problem on your hands in a few years if Brock works out and a solution if he doesn't. It is expensive but it's nice to see them make a bold move to try to get a quarterback.any decision you make on a quarterback that does not work out will set you back 3 or 4 years but we had to do something. I'm willing to get behind the young guy who has learned behind Peyton Manning and is ready to make his mark. After watching our quarterback for the last few years I don't care about the money. 

Edited by Houston turmOiler

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5 hours ago, Buckna said:

Martin's birthday is January 13th, he is an old 27 and will turn 28 right at the end of the 2016 season. I'm not overly confident with someone that does nothing other than blowup in a handful of games in his rookie season and finally explodes in his contract year, and I say this as a dynasty owner. And FWIW, TB's o'line ranked 9th overall in run blocking advanced metrics for 2015, Miami was 28th.

 

As much as I like him and think he is underrated, no thanks on Alf, he can't catch. We already have a RB that can't catch in Alfred Blue. Miller can do it both, is much younger than Doug, and honestly I think will be cheaper but I guess we will see the numbers soon.

Again, if the GM is worth his salt, any RB signed will be essentially a 2-3 year deal so Doug's age was not a problem. He'd be an "old" 29 year old in his 3rd year with us, which would've been fine. Also, I was basically saying that since Miller is the lesser back, he better be cheaper than Doug, which now appears is the case.

I'd like to see the stats on what kind of defense each player faced, though. I'd estimate that Doug saw more men in the box than Miller did. But again, I think both players are overrated going into free agency, thus, I didn't want either of them. But it looks like we got Miller. At least we didn't pay an older Ivory 6M/year. I really thought he'd be cheaper.

You lose a ton of credibility when you compare Alfred Morris to Alfred Blue. Blue is a terrible runner. Really bottom of the barrel, whereas Morris is a very good runner. Neither of them playing a role in the passing game does not somehow make them the same player. Blue should not be on this team. Morris would be a great 1st-2nd down guy. Can he learn to play in the passing game? Maybe. Ingram barely caught any passes until he did. Either way, if we're paying Brock for his arm, I don't want to see him checking down on 1st-2nd down anyway.

Another option I'd have preferred over Miller would be to trade for Mathews. His contract is really cheap and he's a capable 3-down back.

It'll be interesting to see Brock's contract. His play will really make or break the team, but looking Jones and Brooks and signing Allen is a net loss for our OL.

Whoops, looks like the details have emerged. $18M/year. Wow.

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I was just going to say, if anyone sees actual contract details, like yearly breakdowns, on any of these guys I'd like to see them.

 

Miller gets 4 years, $26m, $14m guaranteed per ESPN.

Osweiller gets 4 years, $72m, with $37m guaranteed.

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1 minute ago, Greg Russell said:

I was just going to say, if anyone sees actual contract details, like yearly breakdowns, on any of these guys I'd like to see them.

 

Miller gets 4 years, $26m, $14m guaranteed per ESPN.

Osweiller gets 4 years, $72m, with $37m guaranteed.

allen got 4 for 28 14 million guaranteed also

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Texans play the Raiders in Mexico City on Nov 21, 2016.

I hope that doesn't count as one of our home games.

 

Edit:  Ok, says Raiders hosting, so I guess not.

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So early picks... a receiver, tight end or lineman are all still possibilities.  As is safety.  Also if Crick isn't re-signed we'll need another DE.

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Just now, Greg Russell said:

So early picks... a receiver, tight end or lineman are all still possibilities.  As is safety.  Also if Crick isn't re-signed we'll need another DE.

i am expecting a handful of low level signings some of these "needs"  speed at WR,  depth throughout the defense..Expecting the draft will be BPA 

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Just trying to find some evaluations.

CBS has for Allen:

Quote

38. Jeff Allen, G, 26

He missed time early last season, and the Chiefs line wasn't as good. When he was in the lineup, the line was much better. He's a tough player in the run game.

The 38 being 38th best player available in free agency.  They had Ben Jones just ahead of him at 37.  Brooks at 30.

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39 minutes ago, Greg Russell said:

Just trying to find some evaluations.

CBS has for Allen:

The 38 being 38th best player available in free agency.  They had Ben Jones just ahead of him at 37.  Brooks at 30.

FWIW, PFF had Allen as the 10th best guard in the league last year. Brooks was rated the 37th best guard. I'll see if I can find links but have seen a number of blurbs talking about Allen being the best rated guard as a FA behind Osemele.

 

Edit: And his contract is significantly cheaper than Brooks. Although kind of like I mentioned with Doug Martin, I'm always skeptical of guys that have their best year just before becoming a FA and Allen fits that bill.

Edited by Buckna

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I like Osweiler, but I do think that 7 games as a starter, and a 5-2 record, is way too small of a sample size for that kind of money. However, he is definitely better than any QB on the roster currently. Love the Miller signing. Really think he can do it all.

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I think the Texans did what they needed to do today: provide a reason for the fans to be optimistic. While Brock may or may not be the answer at least this front office finally went for it and actually went hard at key problem areas. This also provides many more options for the draft and our pools of solid talent for those needs at 22 are much higher than they were for QB or RB. 

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The full details are in on newly-acquired Texans quarterback Brock Osweiler's four-year, $72 million contract.

The contract includes $37 million guaranteed with $12 million of that total paid out this year in a signing bonus, according to NFL Players Association figures.

The contract averages $18 million pear year.

Osweiler is due a fully guaranteed base salary of $4 million this year for skill, cap and injury and a $5 million roster bonus on March 16 for a total first-year payout of $21 million.

Osweiler has a fully guaranteed base salary of $16 million in 2017 for a two-year payout of $37 million.

He has an $18 million nonguaranteed base salary in 2018 for a three-year payout of $55 million.

He's due nonguaranteed base salary of $13 million in 2019.

Osweiler is scheduled for a $4 million roster bonus in March of 2019.

So $21m in year one, $16m in year two, all guaranteed.   Then $18m and $17m in years 3 and 4.  I need to refresh myself on salary vs signing bonus guarantees when it comes to prorating, but if only the signing bonus gets prorated as I'm thinking, if cut after 2 years it would be an $6m cap hit but $12m cap savings that year (or could be spread over 2 years).  So they can get out of it decently at least if he doesn't work out.

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The Texans lost offensive guard Brandon Brooks to the Philadelphia Eagles on a five-year, $40 million deal Wednesday.

They quickly replaced him with Kansas City Chiefs offensive guard Jeff Allen on a four-year, $28 million contract.

According to NFL Players Association figures, Allen received a $5 million signing bonus with $12 million total guaranteed,.

The deal includes a $2 million fully guaranteed base salary in 2016 and a $3 million roster bonus due this month.

In 2017, Allen has a fully guaranteed $4.75 million base salary.

In 2018, he has a nonguaranteed $4.75 million base salary.

In 2019, Allen has a nonguaranteed $6 million base salary.

Allen is due a $31,250 per game active roster bonus each year.

There's a $200,000 workout de-escalator clause each year for Allen.

Meanwhile, Brooks, a former third-round draft pick, left the Texans and received an $11 million signing bonus as part of $21 million total guaranteed.

Brooks got a $1 million base salary in 2016 that's fully guaranteed and a $5 million base salary in 2017 that's fully guaranteed.

In 2018, $4 million of his $8.5 million base salary is guaranteed for injury only at signing. That becomes fully guaranteed for skill and salary cap if he's on the roster on the fifth day of the 2018 league year.

In 2019, he's due a $7.5 million nonguaranteed base salary and a $7 million nonguaranteed base salary in 2020.

Brooks has a $250,000 Pro Bowl escalator clause in 2017, up to $500,000 Pro Bowl esclator clause in 2018, up to $750,000 Pro Bowl escalator clause in 2019 and a $1 million Pro Bowl escalator clause in 2020.

Another with 2 years of fully guaranteed money and then option to cut easily enough after if needed.

 

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I like what I see from the contract end of things. They had a lot of cap surplus this year & next, if these guys don't pan out then we cut them and move on. At least we are taking a shot at improving and competing now instead of floundering with no QB like the last two years. JJ won't be young forever.

 

Loving some of the media people talking about the Bronco's balking at paying Brock and letting us have him, nevermind that they offered him up to $16M a year vs our $18M.

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Broncos are one of the worst for cap room this year.  I wonder if they'd have gone higher if they were able.  I'd think so, given them having a window to try to get back to the SB.

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After his visit Sunday with the Steelers, free agent OT Russell Okung also is scheduled to meet with the Houston Texans, league sources told ESPN's Adam Schefter.

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