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I LOVE Elizabeth Warren: All aboard - WOO WOO!!! (3 Viewers)

timschochet said:
Not quite as dismissive IMO. Certainly the misogyny was there as it always is when these guys are faced with a woman politician. 
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I like Warren but I have reservations about her ability to win in 2020.  She's a wonk like Hillary and suffers from the same "not a natural politician" disease that hurt Hillary.  

I used to think that nominating the best person for the job was most important.  11/8/16 changed my mind.  

 
timschochet said:
Warren is on Morning Joe right now. Damn she is impressive. Has a plan, a good answer for everything, seems very genuine. I've always liked her but never agreed with her politically; I viewed her as too progressive for my tastes. But she is turning me around. 
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Wow...watching a turn around right before our eye...coming to the dark side Tim? ;)  

 
tommyGunZ said:
I like Warren but I have reservations about her ability to win in 2020.  She's a wonk like Hillary and suffers from the same "not a natural politician" disease that hurt Hillary.  

I used to think that nominating the best person for the job was most important.  11/8/16 changed my mind.  
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Why?   We had two completely garbage candidates.  The only reason Trump won is because people hate Hillary and the arrogant left.  

 
Anyhow, during the interview (and apparently in her new book), Warren made the simple but rather compelling progressive argument: during the years 1934-1980, our government, both Democrats and Republicans, were focused with benefiting the working class and helping them become middle class, and this was the key to our prosperity as a nation. Then, from 1981 until now, we have lost that focus, and as a result the rich have gotten richer but the working class and middle class have suffered. So we need to return to the ideas of 1934-1980 and focus on turning the working class into middle class again.

 
timschochet said:
Not quite as dismissive IMO. Certainly the misogyny was there as it always is when these guys are faced with a woman politician. 
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As opposed to the ageism practiced by the DNC by actively shutting out Sanders?

You see how ridiculous (and easy) it is to make these accusations without any supporting data?  In other words, do you have any data that shows that she lost any significant part of the vote simply to misogyny?  Separating that out from the effects of her horrible campaign, her hideous record on the truth, revelations of back room dealings, etc. within any statistical certainty is a tough one.  But you put it out there, so I look forward to your numbers.

 
timschochet said:
Anyhow, during the interview (and apparently in her new book), Warren made the simple but rather compelling progressive argument: during the years 1934-1980, our government, both Democrats and Republicans, were focused with benefiting the working class and helping them become middle class, and this was the key to our prosperity as a nation. Then, from 1981 until now, we have lost that focus, and as a result the rich have gotten richer but the working class and middle class have suffered. So we need to return to the ideas of 1934-1980 and focus on turning the working class into middle class again.
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The effects of the welfare state starting taking hold by then (this is a generational thing).  But that is a discussion for somewhere else.

tommyGunZ said:
I like Warren but I have reservations about her ability to win in 2020.  She's a wonk like Hillary and suffers from the same "not a natural politician" disease that hurt Hillary.  

I used to think that nominating the best person for the job was most important.  11/8/16 changed my mind.  
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You have Booker in 2020.  He will have an easy road and would have been 100% better than HRC this time around.  He would have had a hard time winning against the DNC as Bernie did, though.

 
Sand said:
As opposed to the ageism practiced by the DNC by actively shutting out Sanders?

You see how ridiculous (and easy) it is to make these accusations without any supporting data?  In other words, do you have any data that shows that she lost any significant part of the vote simply to misogyny?  Separating that out from the effects of her horrible campaign, her hideous record on the truth, revelations of back room dealings, etc. within any statistical certainty is a tough one.  But you put it out there, so I look forward to your numbers.
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I didn't "put it out there." I have never made the claim that misogyny lost Hillary the election. I only pointed out that it was there in the reaction to her from many conservatives, here and elsewhere. Did it ultimately have an impact? I don't know and if it did I wouldn't have the first idea how to measure that impact so I can't answer your question. But it was certainly present, and it was very ugly, and it's very ugly towards Warren as well.

 
timschochet said:
:D  I dunno. I've always had pretty firm economic views. But as I wrote, she is very compelling (at least in generalities- she didn't get specific in the interview.)
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Maybe she can get us all jobs where we teach one class and get paid 300k.  That would take care of economic inequality pretty quick.

 
timschochet said:
But it was certainly present, and it was very ugly, and it's very ugly towards Warren as well.
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No, it wasn't.  She was a horrible candidate - that's why it got ugly.

Warren has substantial issues, as well.  She's been on record lying about her heritage, getting paid for doing nothing, etc.  Hardly a beacon of the Democratic party.  Typical, but her warts are pretty evident.

 
Sand said:
No, it wasn't.  She was a horrible candidate - that's why it got ugly.

Warren has substantial issues, as well.  She's been on record lying about her heritage, getting paid for doing nothing, etc.  Hardly a beacon of the Democratic party.  Typical, but her warts are pretty evident.
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Kind of like Trump raking it in for his Mar A Lago stays.  

 
timschochet said:
I didn't "put it out there." I have never made the claim that misogyny lost Hillary the election. I only pointed out that it was there in the reaction to her from many conservatives, here and elsewhere. Did it ultimately have an impact? I don't know and if it did I wouldn't have the first idea how to measure that impact so I can't answer your question. But it was certainly present, and it was very ugly, and it's very ugly towards Warren as well.
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It wasn't misogyny Tim.  It was genuine repulsion to a laughably corrupt Washington insider.  She had a fair amount of support from people who voted for her due to having a vag, and it's not like she wasn't courting the female vote.  

If her goal was to get elected on merits rather than lowest common denominator pandering, her campaign did an extremely poor job of reflecting that.  

 
Sand said:
You have Booker in 2020.  He will have an easy road and would have been 100% better than HRC this time around.  He would have had a hard time winning against the DNC as Bernie did, though.
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Booker has a good shot.  

The DNC stuff is nonsense.  They screwed Bernie so bad that he was out fund raising for them last week.  

 
Sand said:
As opposed to the ageism practiced by the DNC by actively shutting out Sanders?

You see how ridiculous (and easy) it is to make these accusations without any supporting data?  In other words, do you have any data that shows that she lost any significant part of the vote simply to misogyny?  Separating that out from the effects of her horrible campaign, her hideous record on the truth, revelations of back room dealings, etc. within any statistical certainty is a tough one.  But you put it out there, so I look forward to your numbers.
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How much older than Clinton do you think Bernie is?

 
Apparently I missed this definition:

"Ageism: discriminating in favor of a 69 year old against a 75 year old."

 
tommyGunZ said:
Booker has a good shot.  

The DNC stuff is nonsense.  They screwed Bernie so bad that he was out fund raising for them last week.  
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2020 US PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION - TO WIN Risk 100.00 to win 1600.00

May 01 06:00 AM 

[80058] CORY BOOKER +1600

My guess is the DNC pulls it together and they dust off the Obama playbook from 2008.

 
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Sabertooth said:
Kind of like Trump raking it in for his Mar A Lago stays.  
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No doubt.

tommyGunZ said:
The DNC stuff is nonsense.  They screwed Bernie so bad that he was out fund raising for them last week.  
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In the end he's a loyal soldier.  Doesn't change the fact that the DNC did everything in their power to favor HRC over him.

Henry Ford said:
How much older than Clinton do you think Bernie is?
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Lighten up Francis.  That was a joke.

 
Sand said:
Lighten up Francis.  That was a joke.
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You said you were showing how ridiculous and easy it is to make an accusation.  That one seemed slightly more difficult given that they're six years apart.

Maybe try for antisemitic?

 
Sand said:
In the end he's a loyal soldier.  Doesn't change the fact that the DNC did everything in their power to favor HRC over him.
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Huh?  He's not even a Democrat.  

It's always fascinating to see smart folks with a blind spot.  You're so partisan that you'll buy into silly conspiracy theories even though you're generally a guy grounded in evidence and logic.

In your defense, you're a conservative, so the bull#### anti-Hillary narratives have been tailored to persuade you. It's even more frustrating when liberals parrot this crap; they have no excuse.

 
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Sand said:
Oh, my bad.  I thought for a second he ran for President on the Democratic ticket.  

Humble apologies.
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He didn't.  He is an independent who ran in the Democratic primaries to try and win the Democratic nomination in order to run for President on the Democratic ticket.

Democrats voting in Democratic primaries overwhelmingly voted for Hillary Clinton, by a 55%-43% margin.  

 
tommyGunZ said:
I like Warren but I have reservations about her ability to win in 2020.  She's a wonk like Hillary and suffers from the same "not a natural politician" disease that hurt Hillary.  
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Warren and Hillary have nothing in common. Warren doesn't take a position because it's politically expedient to take it, she takes it because that's what she believes.

 
Willie Neslon said:
Warren and Hillary have nothing in common. Warren doesn't take a position because it's politically expedient to take it, she takes it because that's what she believes.
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The thing they have in common is that they're hated (irrationally in my opinion) by  a significant portion of the electorate.  I'm scared they could suffer the same fate.

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
The thing they have in common is that they're hated (irrationally in my opinion) by  a significant portion of the electorate.  I'm scared they could suffer the same fate.
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Warren would get the portion of the electorate that couldn't back Clinton because they (rightfully) saw her as disingenuous.

 
North East Liberal.

Not a good candidate.

She has a lot more going for her than Hillary ever did.  For starters I do believe everything she says.  That won't play in a lot of places.

 
The Ref said:
North East Liberal.

Not a good candidate.

She has a lot more going for her than Hillary ever did.  For starters I do believe everything she says.  That won't play in a lot of places.
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Did you believe the part about her being Native American?

 
Willie Neslon said:
Yes. Now please stop.
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Well let's just cut to the chase then...

  • She's a wealthy 1%er, ex-Republican who parades around as a working class hero.  She has a net worth of $8.75 million (and maybe as high as $14 million).
  • She champions minority causes and then bends the rules to take advantage of the affirmative action plans that are in place to help minorities.
  • She has built a political career on denouncing the sort of banking titans and financial sophisticates who make a buck off the little guy, but in 1993 she purchased a home at the ridiculously low price of $30,000 from a 70 year old, stroked-out widow and sold it 5 months later for $145,000.  She was a house-flipper.  She did it 4 other times in the 90's - 2 of the times on properties she purchased in foreclosure
She's a complete phony.  Lives one way while preaching something entirely different.

 
Higgs said:
Well let's just cut to the chase then...

  • She's a wealthy 1%er, ex-Republican who parades around as a working class hero.  She has a net worth of $8.75 million (and maybe as high as $14 million).
  • She champions minority causes and then bends the rules to take advantage of the affirmative action plans that are in place to help minorities.
  • She has built a political career on denouncing the sort of banking titans and financial sophisticates who make a buck off the little guy, but in 1993 she purchased a home at the ridiculously low price of $30,000 from a 70 year old, stroked-out widow and sold it 5 months later for $145,000.  She was a house-flipper.  She did it 4 other times in the 90's - 2 of the times on properties she purchased in foreclosure
She's a complete phony.  Lives one way while preaching something entirely different.
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She got a JD 40 years ago, she's not going to have any money by now? C'mon, man. Please stop. You're just spouting far-right talking points here.

 
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