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*** Minnesota Vikings: OFFICIAL

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Flying to MN Monday, got tix for the game on Stubhub this morning. Heading straight over from the airport to pregame downtown if any FBGs are going.  Hoping Cook goes off - I need it

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Why so quiet in here?  Great win and super encouraging for the run and pass games. 

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A historically poor pass D they went against last night, which begs the question of what do we expect of Bradford going forward? Is he a week in week out #1QB? Start him only against weak defenses? He's probably on waivers in a lot of leagues and I'm wondering about his production going forward. 

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14 minutes ago, Ketamine Dreams said:

A historically poor pass D they went against last night, which begs the question of what do we expect of Bradford going forward? Is he a week in week out #1QB? Start him only against weak defenses? He's probably on waivers in a lot of leagues and I'm wondering about his production going forward. 

Probably a decent floor QB2 with top 5 upside against poor Ds. He played well last year with little time to prep. Now he has a full offseason and great chemistry with his targets. 

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Most fun I had watching a Vikings game in a long time. Vertical precision passing from Bradford to Diggs and Thielen. Cook looks awesome. Harassed Brees. Kept the Saints running game in check, which is huge.

And as was said, very happy with the offensive line play. Five new starters plus retooled backups. New blood. No snaps together in preseason games but looked pretty solid. Very good win.

Much like the Gophers win over Oregon State, I hope we don't rest on our success, and get too full of ourselves as the opponents will get much tougher. But that's for another day. Exciting win! #skol

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25 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:
2 hours ago, mr roboto said:

Why so quiet in here?  

I wonder why this is often. 

 

5-0 start last year.  You're not getting me again Vikings.

 

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What did folks think of the offensive line play?

I saw Easton get beat pretty badly a few times on run downs. Remmers struggles in pass protection. I barely noticed Reiff which for an offensive lineman is usually a good thing.

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4 hours ago, mr roboto said:

Why so quiet in here?  Great win and super encouraging for the run and pass games. 

I watched on the dvr a bit behind so when I do that I don't follow in-game threads. 

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1 hour ago, Biabreakable said:

What did folks think of the offensive line play?

I saw Easton get beat pretty badly a few times on run downs. Remmers struggles in pass protection. I barely noticed Reiff which for an offensive lineman is usually a good thing.

Elflein was very very good.  Controlled his position well on both passing and running downs and was excellent when asked to pull.

Reiff was also very good.  I was impressed with his pulling ability for his size as well.  Feel like maybe Detroit didn't use that enough.  He's very athletic.

Berger was his usual solid self.

Remmers and Easton were the weak points, but they both played ok.  Nothing too glaring, but nothing to write home about.  Easton missed a few blocks on some inside traps that would've given us a much larger run gain and the only pressure Sam had seemed to come from Remmers' side, but it wasn't very often.  

I know NO pass defense wasn't good, but we weren't able to even keep below average D-lines off of Sam last year.  This was at the very least encouraging.  Need to see something next week against a good D-line in Pittsburgh though.

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2 hours ago, Hov34 said:

5-0 start last year.  You're not getting me again Vikings.

Anyone that paid attention during that streak could see it was thinner then a piece of paper.. The Defense carried them to wins, and once the OL went to crap and they were starting guys that they found sitting on the streets it was pretty apparent the 5-0 start was a fluke and not a true state of who that team was.

Really enjoyed the game last night.. Yes it was the Saints D.. But I was a little nervous wondering how a OL that hadn't ever played a game together would do... But they held up well and gave Bradford time to find his WR.

Cook looks like he could be what we needed at RB. Theilman continues to impress.. A walk on at college, a Walk on to the NFL and if he keeps this up will get a very nice Contract.

Diggs was putting on his best Randy Moss impersonation last night. His 2nd TD catch was ridiculous as well as one of his other catches along the sideline. If the OL stays health and continues to give Bradford time to survey the field..... :excited:

Edited by snogger

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3 minutes ago, snogger said:

Anyone that paid attention during that streak could see it was thinner then a piece of paper.. The Defense carried them to wins, and once the OL went to crap and they were starting guys that they found sitting on the streets it was pretty apparent the 5-0 start was a fluke and not a true state of who that team was.

Really enjoyed the game last night.. Yes it was the Saints D.. But I was a little nervous wondering how a OL that hadn't ever played a game together would do... But they held up well and gave Bradford time to find his WR.

Cook looks like he could be what we needed at RB. Theilman continues to impress.. A walk on at college, a Walk on to the NFL and if he keeps this up will get a very nice Contract.

Diggs was putting on his best Randy Moss impersonation last night. His 2nd TD catch was ridiculous as well as one of his other catches along the sideline. If the OL stays health and continues to give Bradford time to survey the field..... :excited:

Agreed about last year, I just didn't expect them to drop the next 6 after the start.

Oh, and Thielen already got his "very nice" contract.  4 years 19 mil.

 

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1 hour ago, Hov34 said:
1 hour ago, snogger said:

Anyone that paid attention during that streak could see it was thinner then a piece of paper.. The Defense carried them to wins, and once the OL went to crap and they were starting guys that they found sitting on the streets it was pretty apparent the 5-0 start was a fluke and not a true state of who that team was.

Really enjoyed the game last night.. Yes it was the Saints D.. But I was a little nervous wondering how a OL that hadn't ever played a game together would do... But they held up well and gave Bradford time to find his WR.

Cook looks like he could be what we needed at RB. Theilman continues to impress.. A walk on at college, a Walk on to the NFL and if he keeps this up will get a very nice Contract.

Diggs was putting on his best Randy Moss impersonation last night. His 2nd TD catch was ridiculous as well as one of his other catches along the sideline. If the OL stays health and continues to give Bradford time to survey the field..... :excited:

Agreed about last year, I just didn't expect them to drop the next 6 after the start.

Oh, and Thielen already got his "very nice" contract.  4 years 19 mil.

yea, but he keeps playing like he has and 2 years from now the :moneybag: will be larger.

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As a Steelers fan, I have to admit I'm hoping for a Minny letdown and a Pitt wakeup call.  If week 2 goes similar to week 1, the Steelers are in trouble.

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Line still struggling to open holes. Was at the game and Cooks had no chance on half his carries. Then he broke some. But the passing game carried the day. Bradford was magnificent. Best game I've ever seen him play 

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16 hours ago, Cookiemonster said:

As a Steelers fan, I have to admit I'm hoping for a Minny letdown and a Pitt wakeup call.  If week 2 goes similar to week 1, the Steelers are in trouble.

This is going to be a difficult game for the Vikings. The Steelers offense will be a bigger test for the defense I think, especially without the help of the crowd which seemed really loud in the game against the Saints, making it difficult for Brees to hear himself think, much less communicate with the offense effectively.

I think the Steelers still have some holes in their secondary, but overall a more challenging defense than the Saints I think.

Hoping the Steelers are still finding themselves in week two and maybe the Vikings can steal a win. Not really counting on it though.

I will say this, my worries about the defense from preseason have been pretty much erased. The Saints are a good offensive football team, and the defense pretty much shut them down until late in the game where they went with more of a prevent approach.

Will be a fun match up.

Here is a nice article about that.

Vikings at Steelers: The Matchup

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6 hours ago, Biabreakable said:

This is going to be a difficult game for the Vikings. The Steelers offense will be a bigger test for the defense I think, especially without the help of the crowd which seemed really loud in the game against the Saints, making it difficult for Brees to hear himself think, much less communicate with the offense effectively.

I think the Steelers still have some holes in their secondary, but overall a more challenging defense than the Saints I think.

Hoping the Steelers are still finding themselves in week two and maybe the Vikings can steal a win. Not really counting on it though.

I will say this, my worries about the defense from preseason have been pretty much erased. The Saints are a good offensive football team, and the defense pretty much shut them down until late in the game where they went with more of a prevent approach.

Will be a fun match up.

Here is a nice article about that.

Vikings at Steelers: The Matchup

Agree that this will be a good test for both teams, but that the article linked was written with very purple-tinted glasses.  Cleveland is certainly a team on the rise with a very good O line and also an up-and-coming, solid defense especially in the front 7.  To think of them as doormats (again) and use them as a yardstick for the Pitt offensive ineptitude is a mistake.

I think Rhodes may be able to limit Brown to 100 give-or-take, but that may be a double-edged sword, forcing passes to alternate receivers that are also game changers.  To reference the article, the Steelers O line is significantly better than the Saints and thinking that Cook can outrun Shazier to the edges is just stupid on the author's part.  Shazier is bigger, faster, stronger and more experienced.  Add to that, the article that points to T.J. Watt as having an OK day... two sacks, led the team in tackles and had an INT in his rookie debut pushing Harrison to backup duties!  If Dupree is back or not, QB pressure should be a huge factor and we know Bradford well enough to know that he can hurt you if he has time to throw.  If he gets beat around a bit, he turns into Jell-O.

To the comments about the Pitt secondary; Burns is going to be a top CB in the league soon and you can certainly do worse than Haden as a #2 CB. Sean Smith is a CB turned safety and a second round pick last year that was staring by mid-season, and while he has a penchant towards the big hits, he is not a very sound tackler and is also at least average in coverage for a 2nd year safety.  The safety tandem is better vs the run than the pass, but are at least average in coverage.  Add to that, Shazier is like a safety playing LB in coverage.  To compare what the Vikings did in the air last week vs. the Saints D is as atrocious as knocking the Pitt O in week 1 without practicing together vs. the Browns D.

I can absolutely see Bell having another pedestrian day rushing, and Rhodes limiting Brown to just a good stat line vs. and excellent one, and I can expect some good pressure and hits on Ben although he doesn't wilt under the pressure.  I could also see Bryant going for 100+ and a score or two and Bell having 80+ receiving in addition to the slot WR getting some more love.

Steelers O vs the Minny D is a nice matchup to watch, but I think I give the Steelers D a plus vs the Vikings O and the Steelers O at least a wash vs. the Minny D if not also a plus, if they are up to speed together (big hope this early).  Big plays and ball bounces will play a big part in this game and the match ups are close enough to think that this game could go either way, and being in Pittsburgh makes me think that the betting lines are too wide, but Pitt has the edge.

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Ha! :D Well he does at least link a good Steelers article as well. I think it is always fun to hear the other teams perspective, as naive as it may be in some ways.

Shazier is a really good player who can make some big plays. The 3-4 in some ways makes it more difficult to run outside if the linebackers are good. They definitely had a lot of sacks against the Browns. It will be a good test for the offensive line. If they can protect well again (they might not) then I think that would be a pretty positive sign about the offensive line having turned a corner. With only one game of competence I definitely still have to question that and the Steelers have better pass rushers than the Saints. Cameron Jordan is good, but he is kind of all the Saints have.

Your opinion of Burns is a lot rosier than my opinion of him. It will be interesting to see. I hope your wrong at least for this game, but I will keep an open mind about that. I did not think that much of him as a rookie prospect, but a lot of players get better after reaching the NFL. There was an article I read yesterday about Tomlin's view on how the secondary played, and while there is some coach speak there, reading into his comments, I didn't get the sense that Burns or any of the defensive backs were playing at a high level. Independent analysis of their performance shows their abilities to be lacking as well. You put some serious lipstick on a pig with your comments about Sean Smith who is a guy I wrote Noooooo! in my notes when watching him in college, as far as him being a safety option for the Vikings. Again, players can change and improve, but from what I have seen of these defensive backs, I say there are some holes there and other perspectives support my point of view about this as well.

Hopefully the Vikings will show you what really good coverage looks like soon enough. :cool:

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12 hours ago, Cookiemonster said:

Steelers O vs the Minny D is a nice matchup to watch, but I think I give the Steelers D a plus vs the Vikings O and the Steelers O at least a wash vs. the Minny D if not also a plus, if they are up to speed together (big hope this early).  Big plays and ball bounces will play a big part in this game and the match ups are close enough to think that this game could go either way, and being in Pittsburgh makes me think that the betting lines are too wide, but Pitt has the edge.

Wait... You think it's a big hope for the Steelers O to be up to speed, but you're willing to give them a push with a top 5 defensive unit in the league if not a plus?  Come on.  The Steelers offense struggled against Cleveland, which has improved on defense but isn't anywhere near Minnesota's level.  Ben Roethlisberger was 12-25 for 81 yards on passes not thrown to AB last week.  AB isn't going to go for 11/182 with Xavier Rhodes shadowing him.  So, your hope of beating the Minnesota D likely comes down to how well Bell gets going.  

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1 hour ago, Biabreakable said:

Not Cookiemonster but another Steelers pal of mine thinks Martavis Bryant is like Randy Moss. 

Still makes me laugh.

I laugh every time I hear that comparison made with any receiver.  Analysts like to go on about a guy's "Moss like qualities" all the time and I just shake my head wondering if they even watched Randy play.  

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2 hours ago, encaitar said:

Wait... You think it's a big hope for the Steelers O to be up to speed, but you're willing to give them a push with a top 5 defensive unit in the league if not a plus?  Come on.  The Steelers offense struggled against Cleveland, which has improved on defense but isn't anywhere near Minnesota's level.  Ben Roethlisberger was 12-25 for 81 yards on passes not thrown to AB last week.  AB isn't going to go for 11/182 with Xavier Rhodes shadowing him.  So, your hope of beating the Minnesota D likely comes down to how well Bell gets going.  

I think we've seen enough of the Steelers' O to think it's safe to say that last Sunday was a down / rusty week against an under appreciated D (and a lot closer to Minnesota's level than you give them credit for - if their offense can support that D is another question).  I don't think Bell gets going in the running game this week either, but I think he catches more than a half dozen and that the pass catchers other than Brown have some extra stats.  I was saying that these match ups are very close, but if the Vikes have a top 5 D going back to last year or further, then I think you have to consider Pitt's offense to be a top 5 unit based off the same history and the fact that their pieces are all together for the first time in years.  Sure, it'll take some time to gel with how little preseason the starters played, but I think they expected the Browns to be their preseason week 3 dress rehearsal and almost got upset.  Last week was like the champ getting into the ring with a sparring partner only to find out that the sparring partner was a young, talented up-and-comer that came to punch the champ in the mouth.  Wake up call.  On the other side of the ball, I don't think we can call Pitt's D as good as they looked against Cleveland any more than we should call Minnesota's offense as good as they showed against the Saints.  The big matchup is obviously the Minny D against Pitt's O and I would like to add that defenses are typically clicking better earlier in the season than offenses.  This week is a toss-up IMO, and give Pitt a slight edge due to home field.  I'd be putting the line on this game at a much lower 3 points than Vegas has it at and wouldn't be a bit surprised to see the Vikings leave Pittsburgh with a win.

 

To Biabreakable:  I too was very disappointed to see them draft Sean Smith, and I don't see where I "put lipstick on a pig".  His coverage was pretty spotty in college as a CB and he prefers the big hit to a good wrap & drag tackle.  He had earned a starting role in his first year and while I don't think he's a plus player, he'll likely not embarrass the secondary very often.  I see his cover skills as terrible for a CB and barely adequate for a S but with plenty of athletic ability.  He and Mitchell make a safety team that plays the run pretty well but are average at best in coverage.  Burns on the other hand also earned his starting spot midseason last year against tougher competition, was their undisputed #1 CB coming into this season and gets to work against Antonio every day.  He can't shut Brown down (who can?), but was constantly praised about his development, work ethic and confidence this summer.  I'm not saying he's a top CB now, but I have little doubt that he is a 10 year starter and potential Pro Bowl caliber in a couple/few years.  He has the talent and the right personality.

 Also, I certainly don't expect to see Pitt get another 7 sack day.  Kizer held the ball too long all day, and I don't know if it was coverage or just rookie processing, but someone mentioned in the Steelers' thread that all of their sacks last week came after 4 seconds.  Bradford is a pretty solid QB and the ball will be out much quicker from him.

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So Cookie, if you know last week was a rusty week, what makes you sure that they still won't be rusty?  You talked about how great Shazier is when his speed, then Minny will do what most teams do, run right at him.  I like Shazier a lot but he'll fade as the season goes on and probably miss some games because of the banging he gets into being inside.  He should be a Weakside OLB but you guys have enough talent there now so I see why he got moved inside.

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12 hours ago, CanadianNFLJunkie said:

So Cookie, if you know last week was a rusty week, what makes you sure that they still won't be rusty?  You talked about how great Shazier is when his speed, then Minny will do what most teams do, run right at him.  I like Shazier a lot but he'll fade as the season goes on and probably miss some games because of the banging he gets into being inside.  He should be a Weakside OLB but you guys have enough talent there now so I see why he got moved inside.

I also have to wonder if Pitt has shaken off the rust yet. No question that the Vikings looked like the better team last week, I'm just curious about how much of that was the Saints' D (or lack thereof) and how good the Browns' D really is.  

I guess we can agree about Shazier. Guy is a stud when he plays, but just seems too fragile to take the NFL pounding.  For now, he is healthy and with a good D line in front of him, I just don't see Cook being a game-changer this week.  Your best bet for now is probably running to the left. T.J. did not grade out so well in run D. 

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@Cookiemonster here is a podcast that I enjoyed listening to yesterday with Jon Ledyard who writes about the Steelers. Maybe you are familiar with him?

Anyhow he goes into detail about some of the flaws of Artie Burns and Sean Smith that are pretty similar to my view of those players as well.

I think Jon does a pretty good job of being objective in his assessments of the players on the Steelers and also how this will match up against the Vikings.

Will be a good game I think as long as Case Keenum isn't playing.

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21 hours ago, Biabreakable said:

@Cookiemonster here is a podcast that I enjoyed listening to yesterday with Jon Ledyard who writes about the Steelers. Maybe you are familiar with him?

Anyhow he goes into detail about some of the flaws of Artie Burns and Sean Smith that are pretty similar to my view of those players as well.

I think Jon does a pretty good job of being objective in his assessments of the players on the Steelers and also how this will match up against the Vikings.

Will be a good game I think as long as Case Keenum isn't playing.

He knocked Burns for getting burnt on double moves in college and mentioned 3 games last year that he fell victim to the same thing and that he hated the pick when the Steelers made it (pre-formed bias that he's sticking to?).  He did go on to say that in practice, Burns would hold down Antonio pretty well one day, then get abused the next and look lost... I'd argue that is better than half of the starting CBs in the NFL would do against Brown.  One of them -- I think it was Ledyard but I don't remember and I don't know any of their three voices (one of which sounded so much like Bill Paxon that I couldn't get Twister images out of my head the whole time :lol:) -- said he loved Sean Smith and wanted the Vikings to take him so he already disagrees with both of us on that.  Said Sean was a good run defender.  Said Mitchell was very good, just not a ball-hawk so doesn't get very much recognition and said Joe Haden was slow.  That's about as in-depth as he went and then went on to say that as a group they're about as good as the Saints' secondary but have a better front 7 for support.  I didn't hear anything that was all that informative.  For what it's worth, it took a few minutes to find him linked to the Steelers, as I wasn't familiar with him and don't recall hearing his name mentioned by the more hardcore Steelers fans on these boards (Godsbrother, Evilrin72, The Hank, ArhnCityPander, etc.) so not somebody I give a lot of weight to their opinion.  His specialty seems to be in college scouting but I only know that from searching his name and how he was linked to the Steelers.  And to finish the podcast, all three of them picked the Vikings to win and the largest point spread any of the three of them gave was 4 points IIRC.

Meh. :shrug:  Most "experts" are picking the Steelers to win but not to cover the spread, so it seems everybody agrees this should be a well matched game.

Sounding bad for Bradford this week, but hoping he plays and plays well.  This game should be a good barometer for both teams this early in the season.  Not going to be aired here, so I'll have to see if I can find a decent Kodi stream.

Edited by Cookiemonster

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Bradford out.. Case Keenum :yucky:

 

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1 minute ago, snogger said:

Bradford out.. Case Keenum :yucky:

 

Damn... :kicksrock:There are worse backups out there, but wanted to see these teams compete as near 100% as possible.  Definite downgrade.

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Just now, mr roboto said:

Cook will get 30 touches today. 

I'll take the over ;)

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On 9/12/2017 at 8:12 AM, pantherclub said:

The Vikes looked great last night.  If they keep bradford healthy then it should be a wild year in the division

welp so much for that

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1 hour ago, Cookiemonster said:

He knocked Burns for getting burnt on double moves in college and mentioned 3 games last year that he fell victim to the same thing and that he hated the pick when the Steelers made it (pre-formed bias that he's sticking to?).  He did go on to say that in practice, Burns would hold down Antonio pretty well one day, then get abused the next and look lost... I'd argue that is better than half of the starting CBs in the NFL would do against Brown.  One of them -- I think it was Ledyard but I don't remember and I don't know any of their three voices (one of which sounded so much like Bill Paxon that I couldn't get Twister images out of my head the whole time :lol:) -- said he loved Sean Smith and wanted the Vikings to take him so he already disagrees with both of us on that.  Said Sean was a good run defender.  Said Mitchell was very good, just not a ball-hawk so doesn't get very much recognition and said Joe Haden was slow.  That's about as in-depth as he went and then went on to say that as a group they're about as good as the Saints' secondary but have a better front 7 for support.  I didn't hear anything that was all that informative.  For what it's worth, it took a few minutes to find him linked to the Steelers, as I wasn't familiar with him and don't recall hearing his name mentioned by the more hardcore Steelers fans on these boards (Godsbrother, Evilrin72, The Hank, ArhnCityPander, etc.) so not somebody I give a lot of weight to their opinion.  His specialty seems to be in college scouting but I only know that from searching his name and how he was linked to the Steelers.  And to finish the podcast, all three of them picked the Vikings to win and the largest point spread any of the three of them gave was 4 points IIRC.

Meh. :shrug:  Most "experts" are picking the Steelers to win but not to cover the spread, so it seems everybody agrees this should be a well matched game.

Sounding bad for Bradford this week, but hoping he plays and plays well.  This game should be a good barometer for both teams this early in the season.  Not going to be aired here, so I'll have to see if I can find a decent Kodi stream.

Sorry you didn't like it.

Case Keenum so not nearly as optimistic about the Vikings pulling off a win. The running game didn't get going until the second half last week and after the Vikings had won with the pass in the first half. Expecting Keenum to start fast like that is less likely than Bradford. 

Even with Bradford I figured the game was in the Steelers favor being at home. Much more so now.

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1 hour ago, Biabreakable said:

Sorry you didn't like it.

Case Keenum so not nearly as optimistic about the Vikings pulling off a win. The running game didn't get going until the second half last week and after the Vikings had won with the pass in the first half. Expecting Keenum to start fast like that is less likely than Bradford. 

Even with Bradford I figured the game was in the Steelers favor being at home. Much more so now.

No worries, bud.  Best of luck to your team... but not too much!  Hope they all come out healthy.

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1 minute ago, Cookiemonster said:

No worries, bud.  Best of luck to your team... but not too much!  Hope they all come out healthy.

Its not going so well.

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1 hour ago, snogger said:
1 hour ago, mr roboto said:

Cook will get 30 touches today. 

I'll take the over ;)

At this rate, if the Vikings D can stop the Steeler's Offense, he might have 30 by half time.. and well Keenum is still Keenum.. 2/4 for 3 yards :yucky: 

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Figured if they scored 13 points today with Keenum under center it would be shocking.. and my feelings were correct. :kicksrock:

At least the D did as best as could be expected. When the Offense doesn't do diddly the D can only hope to contain an offense as potent as the Steelers and they did pretty well.

Except for Waynes.. Guy was either chasing WR's, or giving such a large cushion so the WR couldn't get past him they were able to convert some easy passes at times.

Edited by snogger
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Waynes definitely struggles at times, pretty much every game. He got benched for Alexander briefly then back in the game later. He does generally do a good job in run support.

Offense just couldn't get going and the offensive line looked much worse this game than against the Saints.

Reif and Easton had a lot of issues but all five linemen had breakdowns, on some plays all at the same time.

The defense did a good job for the most part although some really dumb penaties and some that make you wonder a bit about the timing of them and ticky tack nature of the calls. The call of Diggs for offensive pass interference was BS and negated a good play. Seemed like that happened to the offense a lot on the few good plays they did make.

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7 hours ago, Biabreakable said:

Sorry you didn't like it.

Case Keenum so not nearly as optimistic about the Vikings pulling off a win. The running game didn't get going until the second half last week and after the Vikings had won with the pass in the first half. Expecting Keenum to start fast like that is less likely than Bradford. 

Even with Bradford I figured the game was in the Steelers favor being at home. Much more so now.

Well, as expected without Bradford.  That sucked for you guys.  D played well, but just didn't have the offensive support.

As to the podcast, who was it that predicted Minny's missed first extra point?  That was Romo level psychic ability!

Edited by Cookiemonster

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13 minutes ago, Cookiemonster said:

Well, as expected without Bradford.  That sucked for you guys.  D played well, but just didn't have the offensive support.

As to the podcast, who was it that predicted Minny's missed first extra point?  That was Romo level psychic ability!

Forbath has missed an extra point in both games now. Kind of like Blair Walsh last year in that regard.

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