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*** Minnesota Vikings: OFFICIAL

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19 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

Forbath has missed an extra point in both games now. Kind of like Blair Walsh last year in that regard.

WTF is it with kicking the xtra point.. It is what used to be called a "chip shot" FG.. Yet he now has almost as many missed extra points as made FG. :wall:

Zimmer should make him do nothing but kick from that distance every practice for the entire practice.. Then go back to the old high school "punishment" and make him run laps every time he misses.

Edited by snogger
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19 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

Forbath has missed an extra point in both games now. Kind of like Blair Walsh last year in that regard.

I won't be haunting you thread all season, it was just the week.  Thanks for the civil conversation Bia.  You've been one of my favorite posters here for years dating back to my dynasty FFB days.

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1 minute ago, Biabreakable said:

Being a Vikings fan is a process of always waiting for the other shoe to drop. Or QB ACL or a number of other things.

:goodposting:  On the Vikings post game call in show, they were already talking about "tanking" for one of the top QBs in next years draft.  :lol:  Seems like it is always something with this team.

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32 minutes ago, snellman said:

:goodposting:  On the Vikings post game call in show, they were already talking about "tanking" for one of the top QBs in next years draft.  :lol:  Seems like it is always something with this team.

There was a comment today during the game that they feel Teddy is much further along in his recovery then most thought he'd be.. Hopefully Bradford's knee settles down and he can last until Teddy comes back. :thumbup:

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"Sam is fine. He might play one game from now, he might play six weeks from now. Either way, he's fine." -Mike Zimmer on Bradford's status

I think they need to accelerate the Kyle Sloter project 

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JMHO - I could feel the game turn after that unbelievable offsides by Robison. That may have been the dumbest play I've seen in the last 4 years.

I know the QB landscape is almost a dry as the OL landscape, but the cupboard is still bare on this roster. It's just not logical to think this team can win with the type of back-up QBs they have fielded in recent years. Worse, you don't even have opportunity to see a young hopeful show glimpses of a brighter future. It's just losing ugly, without silver linings.

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Do we benefit at all IF Teddy returns to the active roster?  If he's on the IR all year, do we not  have the flexibility to use next year as his contract year?  I thought I read that somewhere before camp opened.  If Vikings activate Teddy I hope it's because Bradford is broken again otherwise Teddy is auditioning for some other team for 2018.

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24 minutes ago, CanadianNFLJunkie said:

Do we benefit at all IF Teddy returns to the active roster?  If he's on the IR all year, do we not  have the flexibility to use next year as his contract year?  I thought I read that somewhere before camp opened.  If Vikings activate Teddy I hope it's because Bradford is broken again otherwise Teddy is auditioning for some other team for 2018.

Teddy is on the PUP list no IR. He can come back after week 6 of the regular season.

According to the contract language a player who starts the year on PUP has their contract toll until the next season, which if so then the Vikings would still have the 5th year option that they could designate for Bridgewater and keep him.

Some folks have cried out that this is unfair and oppose this outcome, so the 5th year option, may or may not be an option if/when Teddy is healthy to make the active roster. I really don't know the answer to this, it seems a bit up in the air.

If Teddy is healthy enough to practice that does not mean he will be healthy enough to play. We don't know what his mobility will be like on recovery or if he will be able to move around well enough to play. No one knows that yet. Obviously Teddy is determined and I wish him the best of luck as far as being able to play again, but it was a serious injury he had, and always possible he won't return to previous form.

That is why I just take a wait and see approach to this. There are too many ifs too many unknowns in regards to Teddy.

The important thing is for Teddy to recover fully. I worry that he may try to rush back as part of a way of avoiding his contract tolling. The medical staff won't let Teddy practice or play until they deem he is ready to do everything.

I am not really expecting to see Teddy at all this year, but if he does get healthy enough to play and make the active roster then I will be pleasantly surprised.

Love Teddy but he still hasn't played at as high a level as Sam Bradford. So even if healthy, if Sam is healthy, I am pretty sure Sam starts over Teddy anyways.

Contracts for both players next year are up in the air.

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53 minutes ago, Scooby1974 said:

What are you guys doing with the Minny D? They have put up 9 points in two weeks...in contrast, Baltimore has 48 in my league...uggg

I don't know what you are going to do with the Minnesota defense on your fantasy team. I personally won't be doing anything with that.

Team defensive performance is random, you don't really know when they will have big games or poor games.

The Vikings defense has played decently against two quality opponents, but no they didn't shut out the Bengals or feast on the Browns. The Ravens are a good defense with key players like Suggs healthy again.

Edited by Biabreakable

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30 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

I don't know what you are going to do with the Minnesota defense on your fantasy team. I personally won't be doing anything with that.

Team defensive performance is random, you don't really know when they will have big games or poor games.

The Vikings defense has played decently against two quality opponents, but no they didn't shut out the Bengals or feast on the Browns. The Ravens are a good defense with key players like Suggs healthy again.

Pre-season rankings had Minny as a top 5-7 Def but they sure aren't playing like it. Granted, Bradford is already hurt. The Bungles have been really bad and Cleveland is Cleveland so I gotta make a move to drop them.

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On 9/18/2017 at 7:58 AM, BigJim® said:

I know the QB landscape is almost a dry as the OL landscape, but the cupboard is still bare on this roster. It's just not logical to think this team can win with the type of back-up QBs they have fielded in recent years.

I agree that the Vikings backup QBs have sucked in recent years, but really, how many teams in the league have a good situation at that spot?

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Sounds like Bradford will practice again today. 

Everyone collectively hold your breath. 

Not a Vikes fan, but with Cook & Bradford in one league & Diggs in another I'm heavily invested, so I'll be holding my breath with y'all. 

:yes: 

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14 minutes ago, -arcK- said:

I agree that the Vikings backup QBs have sucked in recent years, but really, how many teams in the league have a good situation at that spot?

It's a complicated (but fair) question you ask. Some teams who already have elite QBs have done better (Patriots/Dallas) than others (Indianapolis) when they have a bona fide top tier QB - or al least there is not a seismic drop off. For some teams (Pitt/GB/SD/Seattle) it is hard to tell how they've done, because their top tier QB is durable and it's an unknown. I don't really put the Vikes even in that conversation with Bradford - who is on a 1 year contract, or Teddy. Without context of having 'the guy' at QB1, I think Keenum ranks pretty low among QB2's. I don't know much about Sloter, or whether he might be the "at least he's possibly QB of the future" I'd prefer to watch.     

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I hear what you are saying Jim but the free agency market for QBs is rarely ever good and I don't think last year was any different. I mean the Colts had to trade for Tolzien recently to try to get better there. Keemum is likely better than Tolzien. Jay Cutler wasn't available until a starting position opened up for him with Miami.

For a back up QB what you are looking for is a player who can come in and play some games for you if the starter is injured. Case Keemum isn't a good QB but he actually has started several games for the Rams in his short career (not very well but he did). In that sense he was likely one of the better back up QB options available because of how many starts he has.

Who else would have been a better option?

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11 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

I hear what you are saying Jim but the free agency market for QBs is rarely ever good and I don't think last year was any different. I mean the Colts had to trade for Tolzien recently to try to get better there. Keemum is likely better than Tolzien. Jay Cutler wasn't available until a starting position opened up for him with Miami.

For a back up QB what you are looking for is a player who can come in and play some games for you if the starter is injured. Case Keemum isn't a good QB but he actually has started several games for the Rams in his short career (not very well but he did). In that sense he was likely one of the better back up QB options available because of how many starts he has.

Who else would have been a better option?

Yeah, I agree. I also realize the Teddy situation has left us in a complicated place. It just doesn't seem like a 2017 FA issue. It's a Shawn Hill issue. It's a Pat Devlin issue, a Mike Kafka issue, an MBT and Heinicke issue, Matt Cassell, Josh Freeman - and that is just going back to 2013. It's true there were no FA in 2017, and because we had no internal solution we were forced to sign a FA who is better than Tolzien. It is what it is, and its more than a little frustrating to see other teams hit on draft picks like Russell Wilson and Dak Prescott. I don't know, maybe we can win with Keenum. I'm just sort of dreading going to the Tampa game to watch him.

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Yeah sorry the Colts traded for Jacoby Brissett to hopefully upgrade over Tolzien who they already had. My mistake.

Here is a list of the free agent QBs for 2017

Cousins was never really an option as he got the franchise tag.

Tony Romo retired.

Cutler was going to retire and only wanted to start. Injury to Tannehill opened the door for him to start, he got starter money.

Brain Hoyer is starting for the 49ers and got starter money.

Mike Glennon got starter money and starts for the Bears.

Colin Kaepernick does not have a job. Seems to be blackballed by the NFL who does get money for armed forces recruiting in their budget. 

Robert Griffin out of football now as far as I know.

Brock Osweiller is back with the Broncos now after the Browns failed to get anything in trade for him. No thanks.

Ryan Fitzpatrick signed as the back up for the Bucs. Maybe he would have been a better back up than Keenum. I kind of like Fitzparrick and more than Keenum.

Geno Smith signed with the Giants to be their back up. About even with Keenum I guess, not sure who I prefer between these two.

Nick Foles signed as a back up for the Chiefs. Keenum started over Foles when he failed as the starter for the Rams.

Matt Barkley oh god no.

Ryan Mallet maybe could make Barkley look good by comparison.

Guys listed after Keenum are Christian Ponder Blaine Gabbert and Shawn Hill.

So from my perspective the only better options got starter money. I maybe would have preferred Fiztpatrick to Keenum. Geno Smith is maybe a push.

 

 

Edited by Biabreakable
need a new keyboard t keeps sticking
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33 minutes ago, FunkyPlutos said:

Keenum had zero time to throw in that game last week...not saying he is good or not good but judging him on that performance is a mistake.

It’s not a great line, but you don’t have to judge him on last week. He’s a hometown UDFA who’s moved four times in the last four years. He’s not good.

That said, Josh McCown once had a torrid streak (2013), Brian Hoyer looked semi-competent in Nuk’s blowup year (2015), iHeck, Sam Bradford currently leads the NFL in YPA. For the middle two-thirds of the leagues QBs, if you give them time, they’ll look good.

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It should be a bit easier since the game is at home, but the Bucs have a good defense. Not sure how well they will do if Keenum starts again. Should be better than last week but likely not much better. Not having the crowd definitely helps with the communication on offense.

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On 9/20/2017 at 9:10 AM, Biabreakable said:

Teddy is on the PUP list no IR. He can come back after week 6 of the regular season.

According to the contract language a player who starts the year on PUP has their contract toll until the next season, which if so then the Vikings would still have the 5th year option that they could designate for Bridgewater and keep him.

Some folks have cried out that this is unfair and oppose this outcome, so the 5th year option, may or may not be an option if/when Teddy is healthy to make the active roster. I really don't know the answer to this, it seems a bit up in the air.

If Teddy is healthy enough to practice that does not mean he will be healthy enough to play. We don't know what his mobility will be like on recovery or if he will be able to move around well enough to play. No one knows that yet. Obviously Teddy is determined and I wish him the best of luck as far as being able to play again, but it was a serious injury he had, and always possible he won't return to previous form.

That is why I just take a wait and see approach to this. There are too many ifs too many unknowns in regards to Teddy.

The important thing is for Teddy to recover fully. I worry that he may try to rush back as part of a way of avoiding his contract tolling. The medical staff won't let Teddy practice or play until they deem he is ready to do everything.

I am not really expecting to see Teddy at all this year, but if he does get healthy enough to play and make the active roster then I will be pleasantly surprised.

Love Teddy but he still hasn't played at as high a level as Sam Bradford. So even if healthy, if Sam is healthy, I am pretty sure Sam starts over Teddy anyways.

Contracts for both players next year are up in the air.

Just to clarify, the contract doesn't toll for all players on PUP, just those in the last year of the contract:

Section 2. Physically Unable to Perform: Any player placed on a Physically Unable to Perform list (“PUP”) will be paid his full Paragraph 5 Salary while on such list. His contract will not be tolled for the period he is on PUP, except in the last year of his contract, when the player’s contract will be tolled if he is still physically unable to perform his football services as of the sixth regular season game.

I'm unclear on the wording "as of the sixth regular season game" since he's not eligible to be removed from PUP until after that game.  Maybe he can still take and pass a physical to determine the tolling?  Looks like it's possible he can actually just complete his 4th year of service and be a UFA next year, making the next point moot.

=====

I don't think the 5th year thing is nearly as up in the air as others do.  The wording from the CBA:

Section 7. Fifth-Year Option for First Round Selections:
(a) Exercise Period. A Club has the unilateral right to extend from four years to five years the term of any Rookie Contract of a player selected in the first round of the Draft (the “Fifth-Year Option”). To do so, the Club must give written notice to the player after the final regular season game of the player’s third season but prior to May 3 of the following League Year (i.e., year four of the contract).

The team will latch onto the i.e clause, but the prevailing clause will be "of the following League Year" which was 2017.  Tolling doesn't make something not happen, it makes extends the deadline or completion of it.  So they won't be able to claim "the fourth year starts in 2018", it's more accurate to say "2018 will be the extension of his 4th year, which began in 2017".  I think this ends up being a clear cut win for TBW. 

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Bradford getting a second opinion from Dr. James Andrew. That is usually really bad news(IR). Sell your Vikings players now.

Edited by Weebs210

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6 minutes ago, Hankmoody said:

Just to clarify, the contract doesn't toll for all players on PUP, just those in the last year of the contract:

Section 2. Physically Unable to Perform: Any player placed on a Physically Unable to Perform list (“PUP”) will be paid his full Paragraph 5 Salary while on such list. His contract will not be tolled for the period he is on PUP, except in the last year of his contract, when the player’s contract will be tolled if he is still physically unable to perform his football services as of the sixth regular season game.

I'm unclear on the wording "as of the sixth regular season game" since he's not eligible to be removed from PUP until after that game.  Maybe he can still take and pass a physical to determine the tolling?  Looks like it's possible he can actually just complete his 4th year of service and be a UFA next year, making the next point moot.

=====

I don't think the 5th year thing is nearly as up in the air as others do.  The wording from the CBA:

Section 7. Fifth-Year Option for First Round Selections:
(a) Exercise Period. A Club has the unilateral right to extend from four years to five years the term of any Rookie Contract of a player selected in the first round of the Draft (the “Fifth-Year Option”). To do so, the Club must give written notice to the player after the final regular season game of the player’s third season but prior to May 3 of the following League Year (i.e., year four of the contract).

The team will latch onto the i.e clause, but the prevailing clause will be "of the following League Year" which was 2017.  Tolling doesn't make something not happen, it makes extends the deadline or completion of it.  So they won't be able to claim "the fourth year starts in 2018", it's more accurate to say "2018 will be the extension of his 4th year, which began in 2017".  I think this ends up being a clear cut win for TBW. 

While I appreciate you trying to explain this to me still sounds up in the air. The point of contention being the deadlines and if his contract tolls or not.

If I understanding you properly though, the 5th year option is no longer an option because they didn't exercise it by the May 3rd deadline?

However the clause does say that the contract will toll if the player is in the final year of their contract and they are on the PUP list, which are both conditions applicable to Teddy Bridgewater.

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1 hour ago, Biabreakable said:

:angry: Something is amiss here with what the Vikings are letting on...

Whatever happened to Taylor Heinicke ?? last year when Teddy went down many thought he'd be a decent QB to take over until Teddy got healthy and yet a year and half later :tumbleweed: 

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Well Heinicke put his leg through a glass window last year and did not win the back up QB position over Keenum in preseason. He had an injury and they stashed him on IR I believe.

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3 hours ago, Biabreakable said:

While I appreciate you trying to explain this to me still sounds up in the air. The point of contention being the deadlines and if his contract tolls or not.

If I understanding you properly though, the 5th year option is no longer an option because they didn't exercise it by the May 3rd deadline?

However the clause does say that the contract will toll if the player is in the final year of their contract and they are on the PUP list, which are both conditions applicable to Teddy Bridgewater.

I believe the 5th year will be be available because they didn't exercise it this year, yes.  That hasn't been validated by anything official though.

Read the tolling part again:

Section 2. Physically Unable to Perform: Any player placed on a Physically Unable to Perform list (“PUP”) will be paid his full Paragraph 5 Salary while on such list. His contract will not be tolled for the period he is on PUP, except in the last year of his contract, when the player’s contract will be tolled if he is still physically unable to perform his football services as of the sixth regular season game.

There's a third condition required for it to toll - being unable to perform as of the 6th game.  Again, this is curious wording since being on PUP by definition requires he miss 6 games.  But if he's "physically able" before then, like maybe passing a physical, then the contract will not toll.  This is the part that I'm wondering about. 

So yes, still up in the air.  But I think both components are more in TBW's favor than originally thought/reported.

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Yeah he is on PUP and will not be able to perform as a football player prior to the seventh game, if then.

The point of contention I guess would be if he were considered physically able to perform football services and what the definition of that might be. I am guessing rehabbing would not be considered this? But without a clear definition, I really don't know, and thus it is a point of contention.

I think the Vikings front office has a good relationship with Teddy and if he is healthy enough to play again they work something out one way or another, for better or worse. No idea how Teddy will play if he is indeed able to play again or when. 

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Still can't believe Bradford played like that week one and is now maybe out for the year.  Just crazy bad luck.  The team seems ready to make a jump too.

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Heck of a win today.. Never saw that coming from Case... :thumbup:

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37 minutes ago, snogger said:

Heck of a win today.. Never saw that coming from Case... :thumbup:

Me either. Some of those passing plays seemed too easy at times.

Will take it though!

Dalvin Cook played great.

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On ‎9‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 3:27 PM, BigJim® said:

I don't know, maybe we can win with Keenum. I'm just sort of dreading going to the Tampa game to watch him.

Wow, that was like going to a movie I thought I'd hate and coming away loving it. Really nice game for Keenum, and the OL for that matter.

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8 hours ago, cap'n grunge said:

Pat Shurmur > Norv Turner.

This is the takeaway for me. This offense just works so much better. 

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Word has it Teddy's rehab is going great and they fully expect he will be ready to play week 7. :thumbup:

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7 hours ago, CanadianNFLJunkie said:

34-17 Vikes??  Nahhh, whomever wins, will win by 6 pts or less.

Both games vs the Lions last year were very close games which the Vikings lost. 22-16 in overtime the first game and 16-13 the second game.

Of course I don't think the Vikings offensive line was nearly as good last year as the players they have this year who aside from the Steelers game has played pretty well. 

On the flip side of that the Lions seem to be playing better on defense this year so those two improvements from both teams may lead to another close game.

Sam Bradford did not practice again today, while Zimmer leaves the door open for him to practice tomorrow and still possibly start that seems unlikely to me at this point.

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Case is who we thought he was. :yucky:

Guess we will now find out it the Murray signing was good or not as he will be more than likely the "starter" the rest of the season.... 

Only good news today was a report once again that Teddy "should" be ready to go by week 7. 

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