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Colin Kaepernick Thread and related anthem kneeling issues/news (10 Viewers)

squistion said:
Yes, he has:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/10/20/york-colin-kaepernick-isnt-being-blackballed/

York: Colin Kaepernick isn’t being blackballed

Posted by Mike Florio on October 20, 2017, 12:18 PM EDT

Free-agent quarterback Colin Kaepernick has filed a formal claim of collusion against the NFL. The NFL wisely hasn’t said much about the pending legal proceeding. On Thursday, however, Kaepernick’s former boss did.

Asked by reporters whether Kaepernick is being “treated fairly” by the league, 49ers CEO Jed York said this, “It’s very difficult for me to say that, with Colin being here for a long period of time. Obviously, there’s the lawsuit that’s going on, so it’s hard for me to get into any details or really share my opinion. But I don’t believe that there’s base to that claim that he’s being blackballed.”

As previously explained, Kaepernick undoubtedly isn’t being blackballed in the classic sense, because the blackball procedure allows only one member of a group to vote to exclude someone, even if the rest of the group wants him.

Collusion is the key word in this case, and here’s the key standard: “No Club, its employees or agents shall enter into any agreement, express or implied, with the NFL or any other Club, its employees or agents to restrict or limit individual Club decision-making [as to] whether to negotiate or not to negotiate with any player [or] whether to offer or not to offer a Player Contract to any player.”

Collusion can happen with as few as two teams, or with the league office and one team. And since the agreement can be “implied,” attorney Mark Geragos will have the ability to weave together text messages, emails, testimony, etc. in an effort to create the know-it-when-you-see-it impression that someone funny was going on in connection with Kaepernick’s failure to have anything going on in free agency.
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I like how you bold something he didnt even say as an attempt to make it look like he did.

 
parasaurolophus said:
I like how you bold something he didnt even say as an attempt to make it look like he did.
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:mellow:

I gave credit at the beginning to the author of the piece, Mike Florio.
 

York: Colin Kaepernick isn’t being blackballed

Posted by Mike Florio on October 20, 2017, 12:18 PM EDT
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It should have been obvious that was his take on things and was not a direct quote from York nor there an attempt to attribute it to York in the article. I don't see how the bolding made you believe that was York talking, but...whatever...

 
squistion said:
:mellow:

I gave credit at the beginning to the author of the piece, Mike Florio.
 

It should have been obvious that was his take on things and was not a direct quote from York nor there an attempt to attribute it to York in the article. I don't see how the bolding made you believe that was York talking, but...whatever...
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It didnt make me believe it, but when somebody asks if a certain person said something else and then you reply saying, yes, yes he has and bold two statements it is completely obvious you are trying to say those were from the person being discussed. 

Just own it. 

 
parasaurolophus said:
It didnt make me believe it, but when somebody asks if a certain person said something else and then you reply saying, yes, yes he has and bold two statements it is completely obvious you are trying to say those were from the person being discussed. 

Just own it. 
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Um, no...you asked after York's comments following the NLFPA/NFL meeting:
 

12 hours ago, parasaurolophus said:

Did york maybe have anything else to say lately? 
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Anything else he said lately was not reported until today, so hard to respond until he, you know, actually said something.

And in my post, York was quoted directly (see those quotation mark thingies):

Asked by reporters whether Kaepernick is being “treated fairly” by the league, 49ers CEO Jed York said this, “It’s very difficult for me to say that, with Colin being here for a long period of time. Obviously, there’s the lawsuit that’s going on, so it’s hard for me to get into any details or really share my opinion. But I don’t believe that there’s base to that claim that he’s being blackballed.”
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If you are befuddled by seeing something with quotation marks and something else being bolded that Florio said in the article and can't distinguish who the speaker was, I don't what else to say...

 
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In the future when someone looks up Colin Kaepernick on google...It will simply say Schmuck who politicized a sport because he is p**** whipped.

 
squistion said:
Um, no...you asked after York's comments following the NLFPA/NFL meeting:
 

Anything else he said lately was not reported until today, so hard to respond until he, you know, actually said something.

And in my post, York was quoted directly (see those quotation mark thingies):

If you are befuddled by seeing something with quotation marks and something else being bolded that Florio said in the article and can't distinguish who the speaker was, I don't what else to say...
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York made his statement about Colin not being blackballed yesterday. That is exactly why I asked you about it. You love copying tweets that support your views, but when the same guy says something completely counter you are silent. You waited until you found florio's spin today.  

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2739703-jed-york-says-he-doesnt-believe-colin-kaepernick-is-being-blackballed

See that date thingy on there? What does it say?

Just own it. 

 
parasaurolophus said:
York made his statement about Colin not being blackballed yesterday. That is exactly why I asked you about it. You love copying tweets that support your views, but when the same guy says something completely counter you are silent. You waited until you found florio's spin today.  

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2739703-jed-york-says-he-doesnt-believe-colin-kaepernick-is-being-blackballed

See that date thingy on there? What does it say?

Just own it. 
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And I didn't see what York said about it or was aware of it until today when I saw Florio's article. You could have linked it yourself if it was that important to you to have the latest on what York says quoted in this thread. You asked for something else and when I saw it, I posted it.

Just own it.

 
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so this whole deal about the inequity of life as a black man that is being protesting about with the national anthem.  just wondering how it's going? 

 
TheMagus said:
Unfortunately for you, you can't get what you want. You cannot force another citizen to behave in a certain matter because what they are doing makes you unhappy. That's what freedom is all about. And frankly wanting to force someone to publicly display patriotism is about the damn most unamerican thing I can think of. 

And that was my point last night. If you are unhappy, that is a you problem. If you are really that uncomfortable with the way the players in the NFL are choosing to express themselves and their concerns, it is up to you to rectify that situation. One way to do that would be to stop watching so you don't have to think about it. Another way would be to look deep inside yourself and come to terms with the fact that freedom of expression is one of our most sacred values and it is what makes living in this country so great. And accept that along with that comes other citizens expressing themselves in ways you dislike. And to not let it negatively affect your emotions. I have to do this a lot myself. When I see people marching with torches yelling "Jews will not replace us" it makes me want to punch a Nazi and my initial emotional reaction is that this should not be allowed. But it is allowed. And it should be allowed. And I can find solace in seeing the positive in the situation by the reminder that we enjoy freedoms in this great nation that many others do not. And if the price of that freedom is me being exposed to raging a-holes every once in a while, that is a very small price to pay. And your sensibilities, emotions, and opinions don't trump the rights of other individuals in this country to express themselves as they see fit.

I've just seen you post about this in various places so it is obviously something that is consuming your thoughts. It would probably be a lot healthier for you if you didn't let it. I think I'm just a little annoyed in general how who's kneeling/who's standing has controlled the public narrative so much and I struggle to understand how people could be so personally and negatively affected by what other grown men are doing with their persons while the national anthem is playing at the beginning of a football game. But to my first point, they have the right to be offended and I shouldn't demand they behave or think in a different way.

As for your other point about the dynamic and personal attacks, I don't post that much and I tune out the board drama and slap fights. I never accused you of personally attacking anyone. And my point wasn't so much about how much you post, it was about reading into what you are posting - that you think your opinion is the most important therefore people should stop making you upset. And that is what I vehemently disagree with. 
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This is a quality post. No badgering, no personal attacks. Thank you for that. I don't expect anyone to change because of my feelings or opinions. Just that they need to know there is a percent of the population that feel the same way I do. It's not as easy for everyone to accept someone kneeling/sitting during the National Anthem. I have accepted that players are going to do what they are going to do. The arguments here have been because people are aghast that someone could feel differently than them. 

 
msommer said:
I am paraphrasing your post from the other thread where you suggest the kneeling protest should be moved elsewhere (apart from the anthem ceremony) and juxtaposing it against your desire to keep posting here about your hurt feelings concerning the kneeling at the anthem ceremony (disregarding other's wish to move it elsewhere).

Also apposing your assertation that the players should do more with your apparent focus on merely posting here on this subject.
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This is what I thought you meant, but I wanted to be make sure. Don't take this as anything but information. I'm not looking for a pat on the back or I would have posted before now. But I think it's warranted at this time. 

I took a job a few months back working for a non-profit that helps people. Most of them are black families. I was pursuing another job with a large bank at the same time I was interviewing with this organization. The bank job would have paid a lot more. It would have kept me in my comfort zone. In my previous job, I worked mostly with executive types in a corporate environment. I had limited interaction with people and really didn't care. I did my job and went home.  But, I made the decision that at this point of my life it's not just about money. So, I took the job with the non-profit.

Fast forward to a few weeks back. I was recruited by Paypal for a fraud position. One of the top 3-4 companies that I have always wanted to work for. I turned them down because for the first time in quite a while I was happy and I've been doing very well in my current role. Well enough that they gave me another department to manage a couple of weeks later. With it came a raise. I turned down half the raise and asked them to put it towards hiring more people to accomplish our mission. It may sound corny, but the personal changes I've felt over the past 3 months is worth more than anything monetary. Contrary to what posters here may think, I now have more compassion for those less fortunate. I can see the difference that change can make. I'm working longer hours. Not because I have to, but because I want to. 

The bolded above is wrong. I could lash out and turn it on everyone else in this thread by asking what are you doing to make things better. But, to be honest it doesn't matter. Each person has to find their own path. I would only hope that they take the time to get to know someone before they make assumptions. 

 
KCitons said:
This is what I thought you meant, but I wanted to be make sure. Don't take this as anything but information. I'm not looking for a pat on the back or I would have posted before now. But I think it's warranted at this time. 

I took a job a few months back working for a non-profit that helps people. Most of them are black families. I was pursuing another job with a large bank at the same time I was interviewing with this organization. The bank job would have paid a lot more. It would have kept me in my comfort zone. In my previous job, I worked mostly with executive types in a corporate environment. I had limited interaction with people and really didn't care. I did my job and went home.  But, I made the decision that at this point of my life it's not just about money. So, I took the job with the non-profit.

Fast forward to a few weeks back. I was recruited by Paypal for a fraud position. One of the top 3-4 companies that I have always wanted to work for. I turned them down because for the first time in quite a while I was happy and I've been doing very well in my current role. Well enough that they gave me another department to manage a couple of weeks later. With it came a raise. I turned down half the raise and asked them to put it towards hiring more people to accomplish our mission. It may sound corny, but the personal changes I've felt over the past 3 months is worth more than anything monetary. Contrary to what posters here may think, I now have more compassion for those less fortunate. I can see the difference that change can make. I'm working longer hours. Not because I have to, but because I want to. 

The bolded above is wrong. I could lash out and turn it on everyone else in this thread by asking what are you doing to make things better. But, to be honest it doesn't matter. Each person has to find their own path. I would only hope that they take the time to get to know someone before they make assumptions. 
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Nice, but it really doesn't show your research on the "non assisting, non planning" kneeling players

 
msommer said:
Nice, but it really doesn't show your research on the "non assisting, non planning" kneeling players
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Again, not sure what you point is or what you are looking for. Why don't you just fast forward to the trap you're trying to set and tell me why I'm wrong. I'm sure everyone will appreciate the brevity.

You asked why I felt the players need to do more, while it appears that all I'm doing is posting on a message board. 

 
KCitons said:
Again, not sure what you point is or what you are looking for. Why don't you just fast forward to the trap you're trying to set and tell me why I'm wrong. I'm sure everyone will appreciate the brevity.

You asked why I felt the players need to do more, while it appears that all I'm doing is posting on a message board. 
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You've already exposed yourself, so there's that

 
My greatest takeaway from this is the stark reality that so many are willing to get all up in arms after a protest, a peaceful one at that, while showing their complete lack of care about the far more damning underlying issues about which the protest is about.

Just a sad example of lack of humanity, selfishness and a clear demonstration of what some feel is - and is not - important.

and that doesn't even begin to cover the utter hypocrisies involved (just one is the willingness for many of these folks to desecrate the flag themselves yet call out others for a protest that at least has an underlying purpose).

A democracy gets the leadership it deserves, and ours sadly is approach the point of no longer deserving the democracy itself... especially since many here and elsewhere seem to support actions that propel that very outcome, forward.

As someone that has always been for the right of those to protest but was quite against this choice of forum, I've become far more understanding of the need to use JUST that forum, in light of the willful turning away from issues that effect, and harm, millions of innocent Americans.

If anything, Goodell's words this past week in terms of increased and improved dialogue among the players, league, owners, local police and communities on these issues demonstrate a level of success, small as it may be, as a result of Caep's initial protest

 
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Ramblin Wreck said:
People care about the President's opinion on the NFL?  He wasn't elected to do anything regarding the NFL.
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I care when the president starts publicly proclaiming that individuals should be forced to do something when what they are otherwise doing is not unlawful. 

 
KCitons said:
I hope you've accomplished whatever it is you were trying to do. At this point, I have no idea what you're talking about. 
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They will troll you all day, your views on the situation make complete sense and totally respect where you are coming from. Don’t mind the trolls, they have an agenda in here.  :thumbup:

 
Koya said:
My greatest takeaway from this is the stark reality that so many are willing to get all up in arms after a protest, a peaceful one at that, while showing their complete lack of care about the far more damning underlying issues about which the protest is about.

Just a sad example of lack of humanity, selfishness and a clear demonstration of what some feel is - and is not - important.

and that doesn't even begin to cover the utter hypocrisies involved (just one is the willingness for many of these folks to desecrate the flag themselves yet call out others for a protest that at least has an underlying purpose).

A democracy gets the leadership it deserves, and ours sadly is approach the point of no longer deserving the democracy itself... especially since many here and elsewhere seem to support actions that propel that very outcome, forward.

As someone that has always been for the right of those to protest but was quite against this choice of forum, I've become far more understanding of the need to use JUST that forum, in light of the willful turning away from issues that effect, and harm, millions of innocent Americans.

If anything, Goodell's words this past week in terms of increased and improved dialogue among the players, league, owners, local police and communities on these issues demonstrate a level of success, small as it may be, as a result of Caep's initial protest
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Oh you have now huh? Good for you. I am shocked, shocked I say, that a message that gets reworked at every turn to try and appeal to people like you has become more appealing to you. It is amazing. Also shocked that since Trump stuck his big orange head in the matter that all of a sudden even more people care about this ever changing cause.

 
parasaurolophus said:
Oh you have now huh? Good for you. I am shocked, shocked I say, that a message that gets reworked at every turn to try and appeal to people like you has become more appealing to you. It is amazing. Also shocked that since Trump stuck his big orange head in the matter that all of a sudden even more people care about this ever changing cause.
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Gonna stand by any of these false and presumptive accusations or are you one of those who won't have the spine to do so?

Cause no need me wasting more effort if it's the latter, but plenty happy to address if you are a poster with enough decency (and backbone) to constructively engage.

Balls in your court, because both points you make are wel misguided, putting it kindly. 

 
  • Smile
Reactions: rct
Koya said:
Gonna stand by any of these false and presumptive accusations or are you one of those who won't have the spine to do so?

Cause no need me wasting more effort if it's the latter, but plenty happy to address if you are a poster with enough decency (and backbone) to constructively engage.

Balls in your court, because both points you make are wel misguided, putting it kindly. 
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Of course I stand by them. Backbone? It doesn't require backbone to stand behind magic football board posts, I find that concept kind of silly. 

This protest started with Colin on his rump as a middle finger to the flag. This protest started about police killing black men. His initial comments and doubling down with the pig socks make that quite clear. 

Those aren't palatable positions to most people. So the message started to morph. He started kneeling so people could try and say kneeling isn't disrespectful to the flag, which is a stupid argument to make since if it wasn't disrespectful it wouldn't be a freakin protest. People then started to speak on broader concepts, but it still really didn't get tons of traction and was dwindling since it is pretty obvious that kneeling is in fact disrespectful to the flag. Enter Trump. Now all of a sudden people are so understanding of the need to protest? As if it was some awakening and it caused them to do all sorts of new research on the matter? 

Your own words show the message had to be modified before it became more palatable to you.  

 I've become far more understanding of the need to use JUST that forum, in light of the willful turning away from issues that effect, and harm, millions of innocent Americans.
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We both know millions of innocent black americans are not being murdered in the streets by police so you are obviously now speaking of different issues than what Colin was originally. There are, what 33k ,total killed by guns each year? It also doesn't make any logical sense that people's reaction to the protest is what made you understand the protest. The protest either stands on its own merit, or it doesn't. 

I also refuse to believe that Trump sticking his nose in the matter hasn't swayed your opinion. If you can honestly say it hasn't, I will concede that part of it. 

And again to be clear, I am not some flag and anthem die hard. I have openly admitted to leaving the room when the anthem comes on to go finish food prep, or any other last minute prep before the game. If I had a hat on at home, I likely wouldn't take it off.I have also said I wish they would get rid of the whole procedure.  I do stand at the stadium and obviously take my hat off there too. Not because I feel some amazing moving experience or deeper meaning. I just do it to be polite to any possible veterans around me. I have also said that these protests, unless they take up segments of the game, would never make me stop watching. 

All I ask is that people be honest about this. I mean the anthem itself is about the flag. It is right there in the damn name of the song. There is a long standing procedure for how to behave and in case you didn't know what that was the PA announcer reminds you and you can see people around you doing it. If you make a conscious choice to do otherwise, for whatever reason you choose, it is being disrespectful. 

Some people, like Colin, think disrespecting the flag is necessary to make a point. I am fine with that. You just cant have your cake and eat it too. You cant tell people that are upset about the flag or anthem that they are wrong and it isn't disrespectful and say they are just turning their back on the issues. That is twisting the message, which has obviously occurred.

 
KCitons said:
I hope you've accomplished whatever it is you were trying to do. At this point, I have no idea what you're talking about. 
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If I had to guess, I'd say he's saying that you exposed yourself as a racist. Par for the course

 
parasaurolophus said:
Of course I stand by them. Backbone? It doesn't require backbone to stand behind magic football board posts  
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Appreciate the response.  Because many do indeed avoid responding to direct questions and look to avoid and then obfuscate rather than engage legitimately. Since you do seem willing to engage here, then kindly let me know just what you meant below:

parasaurolophus said:
Oh you have now huh? Good for you. I am shocked, shocked I say, that a message that gets reworked at every turn to try and appeal to people like you has become more appealing to you. It is amazing. Also shocked that since Trump stuck his big orange head in the matter that all of a sudden even more people care about this ever changing cause.
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1. What do you mean by people like me? 

2. How do you have any knowledge about how long I have paid close attention to these issues? It's been years before Trump was anything more than a failing narcissistic real estate guy who most every legitimate financial and banking source ceased doing business with because of both his failures and shady dealings.  

Finally - you keep claiming the "cause" is ever changing. It's not. It's a recognition of a serious inequity (a series of ingrained inequities, some at the gravest level) in a county that should strive to do better. Our founding ideals certainly set the bar far, far higher than we are achieving.  You made an outrageous and just patently false comment about how this is not about millions of african americans being killed by police in the streets.  What kind of ridiculous hyperbole is that? No one has made that claim, and it demonstrates to me a complete lack of understanding of the real underlying issues. To me, it's pretty apparent what this is about, because you don't need to have a degree in sociology to know our system is screwed up, favors those in power, and part of that equation is historic and systematic racism.

That's not arguable.  Not by anyone with two eyes and basic cognition and objectivity.  Now, how to we ADDRESS the issues?

I don't know - you know what I DO know though?

Because of freakin' Kaep, you and I are talking about it.  Touche Kaep, even if I don't agree with the platform.  Let's be honest, between Goodell's recent statements, and finally some new focus on this issue, including for example the new dialogue in the NFL I mentioned above, it seems to be working.

And if we further some better and more constructive dialogue about race, enable police to better do their job and be protected while the communities they serve see the same result? I'll take some uncomfortable moments and guys taking a knee when many of us are grabbing a cold beer or pissing one out before the action starts. 

The faux outrage on this by people who all but wipe their asses with American Flag toilet paper just says it all, imo. 

 
Koya said:
Appreciate the response.  Because many do indeed avoid responding to direct questions and look to avoid and then obfuscate rather than engage legitimately. Since you do seem willing to engage here, then kindly let me know just what you meant below:

1. What do you mean by people like me? 

2. How do you have any knowledge about how long I have paid close attention to these issues? It's been years before Trump was anything more than a failing narcissistic real estate guy who most every legitimate financial and banking source ceased doing business with because of both his failures and shady dealings.  

Finally - you keep claiming the "cause" is ever changing. It's not. It's a recognition of a serious inequity (a series of ingrained inequities, some at the gravest level) in a county that should strive to do better. Our founding ideals certainly set the bar far, far higher than we are achieving.  You made an outrageous and just patently false comment about how this is not about millions of african americans being killed by police in the streets.  What kind of ridiculous hyperbole is that? No one has made that claim, and it demonstrates to me a complete lack of understanding of the real underlying issues. To me, it's pretty apparent what this is about, because you don't need to have a degree in sociology to know our system is screwed up, favors those in power, and part of that equation is historic and systematic racism.

That's not arguable.  Not by anyone with two eyes and basic cognition and objectivity.  Now, how to we ADDRESS the issues?

I don't know - you know what I DO know though?

Because of freakin' Kaep, you and I are talking about it.  Touche Kaep, even if I don't agree with the platform.  Let's be honest, between Goodell's recent statements, and finally some new focus on this issue, including for example the new dialogue in the NFL I mentioned above, it seems to be working.

And if we further some better and more constructive dialogue about race, enable police to better do their job and be protected while the communities they serve see the same result? I'll take some uncomfortable moments and guys taking a knee when many of us are grabbing a cold beer or pissing one out before the action starts. 

The faux outrage on this by people who all but wipe their asses with American Flag toilet paper just says it all, imo. 
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Not sure if this is a typo? Just stuck out to me. 

 
parasaurolophus said:
 We both know millions of innocent black americans are not being murdered in the streets by police so you are obviously now speaking of different issues than what Colin was originally.
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KCitons said:
Not sure if this is a typo? Just stuck out to me. 
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It stuck out to me, too... which is why I brought it up as BS.  This was never about "millions of black americans killed in the streets" so not sure how it ever changed from "that" to something else.  Which I described above. :shrug:  

 
Koya said:
It stuck out to me, too... which is why I brought it up as BS.  This was never about "millions of black americans killed in the streets" so not sure how it ever changed from "that" to something else.  Which I described above. :shrug:  
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OK, thanks.

 
Cowboysfan8 said:
Doesn't matter. You could have a black wife , if you don't agree with them you're a racist 
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This is again as factually inaccurate as the other times you or others have posted it.

I ask you to back up such an accusation...just as those who have called others racist are asked to back up their accusations.

 
sho nuff said:
This is again as factually inaccurate as the other times you or others have posted it.

I ask you to back up such an accusation...just as those who have called others racist are asked to back up their accusations.
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Tell me what you think he was called out "exposing himself" as?

 
Cowboysfan8 said:
Tell me what you think he was called out "exposing himself" as?
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That’s not what I asked you.  You made an accusation that someone was called a racist simply for disagreeing.  This claims has been made before as well and was bogus.  Try backing up your accusation as others have been asked to do.

 
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