Brony
Footballguy
Does this mean you will scold people more or less for bonuses that they've already gained
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Do you hoard credit card points? (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter fantasycurse42
- Start date
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culdeus
Footballguy
The message is take what the offer is today, and find ways to spend it. Too many people treat their points as some sort of retirement fund. Devals happen so often (Hyatt yesterday) that you can't waste time finding or using them. Shutdowns aren't the only way you can get nailed.Does this mean you will scold people more or less for bonuses that they've already gained
That being said I've piled on >1Mil AA miles on P1 and another 600k P2 so I'm sweating this AA thing a bit, but I've never sold miles and there is no activity on my account that would appear to be mile selling. Mile selling, is a real quick way to catch a ban. AA hasn't ever banned a churner and I can't see why they would really give a ####.
So be greedy, but don't be stupid greedy. I guess.
I will say, I tried reading through a whole bunch of the reddit forum the last few days related to churning and it is intense. I can see where @culdeus gets it from with being very precise and detailed about this stuff so I can't fault him.
The manufactured spending threads was one rabbit hole too many for me to go down still learning this game. There are some people out there doing some serious working of the system and even making a decent chunk of change doing it. For example, hitting the Black Friday deals the last few weeks, getting tons of gift cards at a discount or on sale and then cashing those out through various methods.
The manufactured spending threads was one rabbit hole too many for me to go down still learning this game. There are some people out there doing some serious working of the system and even making a decent chunk of change doing it. For example, hitting the Black Friday deals the last few weeks, getting tons of gift cards at a discount or on sale and then cashing those out through various methods.
culdeus
Footballguy
I do wonder sometimes if people sitting on Southwest that organically earn the CP and get so hyped about it are secretly resentful of people that their first flight of the year is a CP (and free).
The old status match challenge scams had to piss off true frequent travelers too as it would cold block anyone that didn't fly alot from upgrades.
The old status match challenge scams had to piss off true frequent travelers too as it would cold block anyone that didn't fly alot from upgrades.
culdeus
Footballguy
I don't bother with gift card re-sellling. I will buy gift cards to meet minimum spend and cash them out to serve. I've caught one serve ban and have one live card still. I don't want to be the guy that has to go to his mom to get another serve account.
Redwes25
Footballguy
Thought they got removed the double dip on getting both sapphire cards on same day but maybe i am wrong.
culdeus
Footballguy
ex-ghost
Footballguy
Man, saw that too. I know a guy who has a high mile account, but he has not sold miles....
culdeus
Footballguy
Selling miles is gonna get you a ban Everytime. I'm gonna wait and see what they do before using any more mailers though. I've got enough to hold me for awhile.
Redwes25
Footballguy
culdeus
Footballguy
ex-ghost
Footballguy
culdeus
Footballguy
That Expedia card coming along was really well timed. You get that? I will be 1/65 on like Christmas. Figure will make the risk call then.
culdeus
Footballguy
The AA miles thing is starting to come home to roost. It seems like they have cast a very broad net, and there will be at least some actions taken against some of us. Since for a lot of people literally the only churning they did was AA miles and the occasional one off bank offer this will hurt.
dkp993
Footballguy
Man that flowchart is intense. It feels to me like reading a different language. I've gone back to it a few times and can't seem to find my flow so to speak. I guess I made the same "mistake" as you as I ended up getting the csp. I was also pretty stoked with the rewards but I'm gathering I could have done much better. Definitely feel in over my head here.......
ex-ghost
Footballguy
Nervous as hell. Have a few flights booked on miles in the summer, sweating this out for sure.
culdeus
Footballguy
I mean what are the reasonable outcomes
- They ask you to stop it with a sternly worded letter
- They do nothing
- They wipe your mile balance
- They wipe your mile balance and cancel all your award flights
- They cancel everything including your revenue tickets and tell you to F off, forever.
I have a family trip in March and a Europe trip in July that I'm sweating along with another 600k miles across two accounts.
I would like to know what in the hell actually caused them to flag this stuff, just now. Over the last 6 or so years I've generated maybe 2 Million miles. And I consider that pretty small time.
All things end badly, or else they wouldn't end.
matuski
Footballguy
I have the CSR and have had for years. Please elaborate on this? To my knowledge I have received only one $300 credit each year.
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matuski
Footballguy
culdeus
Footballguy
The simplest method to explain
Year 1 - Apply for card, use benefit
Year 2 - Use benefit and downgrade card within the same billing cycle
Now if you have a P2 in the mix
Year 1 - P1 applies
Year 2 - P2 uses credit and downgrades
Also Year 2 - P2 applies and uses credit
Year 3 - P1 upgrades and uses credit
Year 3 - P2 uses credit and downgrades
repeat so as long as you have one player with the 1.5x multiplier and you can continually churn two credits per 1 AF.
matuski
Footballguy
culdeus
Footballguy
Sounds like AA gonna come down hard on the churners. Keep in mind you could at one time churn a 100k mile card every 33 days for 2 years paying a $95 fee for each card. Someone on FT estimated if you really maxed out every offer you could have taken 11 million miles with two players spending perhaps $2k in fees. Or less.
It was a run.
It was a run.
ex-ghost
Footballguy
culdeus
Footballguy
ex-ghost
Footballguy
matuski
Footballguy
culdeus
Footballguy
culdeus
Footballguy
matuski
Footballguy
culdeus
Footballguy
Depends on the issuer
For Chase normally they pay out bonuses each Tuesday, so you would expect to see the bonus land the first Tuesday after your statement cycle closes that earned it even if that lands on a Tuesday. If you are desperate you can manipulate your statement closing date around this. Where a bank holiday falls on a Tuesday you will get it the following Tuesday. As NYD and Christmas fall on a Tuesday this year, this has the potential to delay it by 3 weeks for those.
Citibank pays out on the day after the statement close where you earned it, this is also true for Barclays.
Amex is more inconsistent. You really can't count on any particular payout timeline with Amex.
comfortably numb
Footballguy
How much can one accumulate a year doing this with enough discipline and research?
Sounds like this would be a great part time gig for my wife
Sounds like this would be a great part time gig for my wife
culdeus
Footballguy
Are you willing to manufacture spend and acquire and convert gift cards into money orders?
I mean you are limited mostly by credit card velocity for applications across two people, but if you are willing to do the legwork required to manufacture spend then that opens up a completely new revenue stream.
comfortably numb
Footballguy
We seem to spend a decent amount. I have it piled up on my united mileage card and every so often I get enough for free flights.
This seems like something she would enjoy as she is very detail oriented and likes spending money.
culdeus
Footballguy
If you have a lot of organic spend then just follow the flowchart. If you want to turn this into a part time job then look into manufactured spending. I only do very light MS if I end up needing to finish off some cards so I'm familiar with the process, but not motivated enough to want to grind it out. I will likely grind out the PRG Grocery 5x thing early next year since the AA mailers have dried up, to move MR to Avios. If that seems sustainable I will probably move to MS on stuff like CIC.
comfortably numb
Footballguy
culdeus
Footballguy
The apparent loss of the Citibank AA thing hurts the overall earn rate, alot. If you assume that is RIP now you have to really come to the conclusion that years 1 and 2 are velocity limited by Chase, primarily to your max earn potential. It's not unreasonable to expect $12k per player from Chase in year one. If you can mix in Amex Biz cards and other biz cards you could clear 20k per player relatively easily just on SUBs towards travel. Pure cashback earnings are less.
Wife got an AMEX Platinum 100K offer in the mail yesterday. Before I discovered this thread that would have gone in the recycle bin. Now I find myself trying to figure out if we can hit 5K minimum spend in 3 months on that card and the same on the Southwest Preferred Bus card I just signed up for 2 weeks ago.
No idea how she was the one that got the offer based on their magical formula.
No idea how she was the one that got the offer based on their magical formula.
The Ref
Footballguy
Culdeus I hear you are the resident expert but this is open to everyone... long story short I’ve had a Disney card for the last 8 years and after this last trip we are fairly certian we aren’t going back. As such it’s time for a new card/reward program. We are interested in first class travel as a reward or cash back, kind of undecided. Basically looking for the best possible deal up front in combination with long term perks. Not at all interested in getting a new card every 6 months.
i/we have a FICO of 820. All of our bills go through the card so a yearly min spend won’t be an issue.
what is the best card out there?
culdeus
Footballguy
If it has NLL you can sell these. If under 5/24 a plat is still worth burning a slot but it's not as clear cut with the restrictions on travel credits they have now.
culdeus
Footballguy
Follow the flowchart. Till you get bored. Most travel reward cards have diminished cash rewards that can be triggered if you decide to not use them.
culdeus
Footballguy
If you want detailed advice the format from the WCW Reddit format is useful for someone like me to be able to help
Check out the Credit Card Recommendation Flowchart before posting in this thread.
https://reddit.com/r/churning/comments/c1njpc/faq_credit_card_recommendation_flowchart/
Check out the Credit Card Recommendation Flowchart before posting in this thread.
https://reddit.com/r/churning/comments/c1njpc/faq_credit_card_recommendation_flowchart/
- The flowchart can answer 95% of all "What card should I get?" questions. By continuing to post, you must explain why you feel the flowchart does not answer your question. Asking for feedback ("The flowchart says I should get X - is that still the best choice?") is absolutely allowed.
- What is your credit score?
- What cards do you currently have or have you had in the past (including closed cards), along with dates of when you were approved for the cards? Please include month and year for any card approved in the last 3 years.
- How much natural spend can you put on a new card(s) in 3 months?
- Are you willing to MS, and if so, how much in 3 months? See this page for a primer on MS. Plastiq (for rent/mortgage/loan payments) and bank account funding are often good options for beginners.
- Are you open to applying for business cards? If not, why? See this post and this wiki question to learn more.
- How many new cards are you interested in getting? Are you interested in getting into churning regularly (if you aren't already)? Or are you just looking to get a new card(s) for now but not get into churning long-term?
- Are you targeting points, Companion Passes, hotel or airline statuses, First Class, Biz, Economy seating(s) or cash back?
- What point/miles do you currently have?
- What is the airport you're flying out of?
- Where would you like to go? (The More specific you are, the better someone can recommend the right card. Tokyo is great, "International travel" is way too vague)
culdeus
Footballguy
The only thing that changed is don't use paper mailers to get citicards. Barclays AA is a small spend. Would maybe look at the Hilton biz elevated offer from amex at the same time.
Not the expert Culdeus is, but the answer will depend on a few things he laid out in his posts. Is there a particular airline you prefer to fly or hub near you that would make you favor one over the other? For example I am out of Denver, United and Southwest are the two biggest players and one of the two is who I usually fly with. Therefore getting a Southwest Companion pass holds a lot of value for me, and once I get that and my wife will fly free, I won't really need United for two years so I'm not focusing on them yet. If you don't care about a particular airline, and have no interest in actually churning for lots of points or opening business cards, then you might be best focusing on a card that gives a lot of cashback.
How many credit cards have you opened in the last 24 months? If zero from the sound of it, you would have a lot of flexibility.
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Barclays AA is also on the flowchart for me but AA doesn't really fly out of Denver much and I am a long way away from planning any big reward type trips. I am 1-24 (SW Priority from 2/2019 before I really started researching this stuff, focusing on SW Bus cards at the moment) and was thinking of doing the Chase Marriott next based on the flowchart's recommendation to get the clock started for the 24 months between SUBs (SignUpBonuses) on the AMEX SPG cards. Would probably go CIP's after that. What are your thoughts on that?
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The Ref
Footballguy
For what it’s worth I went ahead and opened up the Citibank double cashback card where you get 1% at charge and 1% at payment.
just seemed the easiest and made the most sense.
culdeus
Footballguy
I mean if you aren't going to churn cards and just care about cash back then that's fine. There are better cards for cash back to consider, BOA offers a better cash back rate for those with large balances with them, for example than what Citi does here. Amex has some category cash back rates that exceed either. Chasing cash back is not as lucrative as travel rewards, but there are still cards in the flow chart that make sense on the CB side to blend.
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