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USA Shootings (11 Viewers)
- Thread starter randall146
- Start date
Politician Spock
Footballguy
The powers that be should have known he was mentally ill and intervened before hand.
And even after committing this act, he can still legally buy beer. Why aren't you outraged by that?!?!
timschochet
Footballguy
I didn't know any of that, never heard of her before today. But she is a good speaker, and seems organized. Maybe that's what we need. I don't know.
Events like today are so depressing. I've no idea if some of these gun control ideas will work. Nobody does. But we've got to try. Try something. How many times are we going to tolerate this by doing nothing about it?
-fish-
Footballguy
I'm directing my outrage at a Virginia state legislature that killed every piece of gun control legislation in 2018 because the GOP held a slim majority, despite pledging that they'd be bipartisan.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
They should have done something effective after the Virginia Tech shooting.
They probably won't do anything effective after this one either.
Citizens of Virginia... you're on your own. Good luck. - the Virginia state legislature
KCitons
Footballguy
Another false statement by someone that knows nothing about guns.
There have been more changes in state and local gun regulations over the past 2 years. That's not nothing. Just because it isn't happening on your schedule, doesn't mean nothing is happening.
It seems that you have all the information about his shooting. Such as what gun was used, how the gun was obtained, and whether or not current laws (or proposed laws) would have done anything to prevent it.
I'd ask you a question, but you probably wouldn't answer.
KCitons
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
1. Many people have made the argument, which I find compelling, that federal gun control laws are the only ones that matter. That was the basis of my statement. That being said, isn't Virginia an "open carry" state? Please correct me if I'm wrong about this. So I don't think its one of the states that has gone through the changes you're referencing. But again I could be wrong.
2. I have no information about his shooting other than 11 people are dead. That's enough for a reaction on my part, mainly of sorrow and frustration. Of course I'd like to know the answers to the questions you raise, but none of them one way or the other are going to change my mind about the need for federal, sweeping legislation. I've had enough.
3. Feel free to ask away. I don't think I've ever refused to answer a serious question that's been put to me in this forum.
-fish-
Footballguy
This is patently false. It is unequivocally true that states with stricter gun control legislation have lower incidents of gun violence.
timschochet
Footballguy
I'd love to learn more about that. If you're right, then I guess I've come to absorb some of the NRA propaganda on this subject without even being aware of it.
timschochet
Footballguy
KCitons
Footballguy
I'm not answering any of your questions. You'll have to do your own google search. Fool me once.
At this point, you have no information to determine what regulations would have prevented this shooting. Frustration and sorrow are fine. Stating that nothing has changed is false. There are plenty of states that have changed laws. It's not up to the Federal government to maintain a well regulated militia. That's the states.
-fish-
Footballguy
Yes, you have. The studies are all posted in this thread and easily found through a simple google search. I'd post them again for you now, but I've got to leave. Search this thread for "Scientific American." There's an excellent article that amalgamates and summarizes the relevant studies.
NREC34
Footballguy
KCitons
Footballguy
Try google.
I don't know. But there have been changes in other states where mass shootings have occurred. Start with your own home state and work from there.
James Daulton
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Well, you're the one that stated that there have been plenty of new gun laws. All I asked is if any of them were in Virginia. I can look it up, and I will. But since you're the one who brought it up, I figured you knew.
timschochet
Footballguy
Gun laws in Virginia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Virginia
Sounds like it's among the least strict in the union.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Virginia
Sounds like it's among the least strict in the union.
timschochet
Footballguy
Here's the report that Fish referenced:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/report/the-science-of-gun-violence-and-gun-control-in-the-u-s/
I'll try to read it later tonight.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/report/the-science-of-gun-violence-and-gun-control-in-the-u-s/
I'll try to read it later tonight.
KCitons
Footballguy
I knew that already.
Your statement that nothing changes is false. There are plenty of states that have made changes in the last 2 years. It's happening at the state level. It just isn't happening on your timeline.
I've responded to 2 of your posts in the last week that were false generalizations. One stating that a felon can walk into any gun show in the country and buy a firearm. And now this one where you state nothing has changed.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Some of us know people that work in that building. Chill with the trolling, tribal politics, and smart ### comments for 24 hours maybe?
timschochet
Footballguy
This is the place to have a political discussion. I hope you didn’t lose anyone you knew.
-fish-
Footballguy
Aggregates, not amalgamates. Was in a hurry and just hit a bunch of letters that were close and hit send
timschochet
Footballguy
As I wrote, I don’t believe state laws are particularly meaningful, though I may have to change that opinion if the information that fish referenced contradicts it. That’s what I meant by “nothing”. You took me on what I wrote without distinction, and that’s fine; it’s my fault for being unclear. But you’ve now pointed it out 3 times. I get it.
As far as felons buying firearms at any gun show in the country, I stand by that. Private sales are not subject to background checks. Even states that attempt to do so have no means of enforcement. The only way to enforce such laws, IMO, is to make them federal and combine them with a national gun registry. That’s what I’m seeking.
KCitons
Footballguy
-fish-
Footballguy
Guns don’t make people safer
That’s not it. I posted it earlier in this thread. I’ll find it later. Gotta catch a ferry.
timschochet
Footballguy
Politician Spock
Footballguy
Given the increased frequency of the incidents, if "too soon" applied, then the discussion would be on pause in perpetuity.
timschochet
Footballguy
I don’t think it’s a question of class. Again this is a political forum and this thread is about guns and gun control issues. Why shouldn’t we be discussing g it here, and immediately?
Also, if an argument is compelling then it’s never tired no matter how often it’s repeated. The only tired thing is that it seems to fall on deaf ears.
OrtonToOlsen
Footballguy
With all due respect I disagree. I’m not going to “chill” at all when this stuff happens and keeps happening.
Nobody is being insensitive or trying to score points...at least I’m not.
I’m GD pissed.
KCitons
Footballguy
KCitons
Footballguy
shader
Footballguy
This thread is about USA shootings and there are dead bodies. Usually in this forum we’ve had a bit of respect and talked about what happened before we descended into full-scale tribalistic and political arguments. I’ve said many times that I think it’s absurd that semi-automatic guns are allowed. But for today, let’s chill and respect the victims and their families and discuss what happened. If that’s just not how this forum works anymore, I’ll move on to a different one in the aftermath of tragedies.
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OrtonToOlsen
Footballguy
I’ll just put this out there...
Discussing gun safety isn’t (or shouldn’t be) “tribalistic and political”. This is a freaking epidemic. We can mourn the dead, sympathize with the families, AND ask for change all at the same time.
I’ll tell you what...if I’m ever the victim of gun violence I give everybody permission to rant and rave before my body is cold.
KCitons
Footballguy
Police find pistol and rifle at scene, official says
From CNN's Evan Perez
A semi-automatic pistol and a rifle were found at the scene and investigators believe they were used in the shooting, according to a law enforcement official.
The suspect is believed to have purchased the firearms legally, according to the investigators' preliminary information.
From CNN's Evan Perez
A semi-automatic pistol and a rifle were found at the scene and investigators believe they were used in the shooting, according to a law enforcement official.
The suspect is believed to have purchased the firearms legally, according to the investigators' preliminary information.
OrtonToOlsen
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
The new podcast from the guy that does Adam Ruins Everything had their first episode and it was on guns. He was interviewing a professor of constitutional law, and I just thought it was interesting. I've never heard the pro-gun side talked about in the same way that other civil rights groups are, but it made sense. They were just talking about what is and isn't in the constitution, what the founders might have meant, how private protection wasn't on their minds and is just a newer concept, etc. I am sure for people who know more about the topic it was stuff they've heard, but there was a bit of info in there that got me thinking.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Friend of mine is in a staging area waiting to hear from her husband. Been there since 4pm.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
The current interpretation of the 2nd has very little to do with the original intent of the 2nd.
In the current interpretation, the first 13 words are considered meaningless. They might as well not even exist. You can erase them, and the current interpretation would not need to be changed at all.
People who study it refer to those 13 words as the prefatory clause, and the rest of the amendment as the operative clause. The question the Supreme Court seems to think only matters is does the prefatory clause limit or expand the scope of the operative clause. Because they've concluded that it neither limits nor expands the scope of the operative clause, it makes the prefatory clause meaningless. The writer might have well said, "A well baked turkey, being necessary to the success of any Thanksgiving," and it would have just as much applicability to the operative clause as the real prefatory clause... which is no applicability at all.
But to me limiting the issue to only that question ignores the other aspects judges are supposed to consider when interpreting written law. One of which is the intent of the writers. The prefatory clause gives us a TON of insight into their intent of the operative clause. And having not heard what you listened to I would assume that the intent he interprets from the prefatory clause is what you heard him talk about. The prefatory clause is a fantastic topic of discussion.... but unfortunately in the eyes of the Supreme Court, it's meaningless.
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OrtonToOlsen
Footballguy
msommer
Footballguy
In light of the events at Virginia Beach I feel it is time to take a stand and demand a change in the laws about drinking and driving
-fish-
Footballguy
-fish-
Footballguy
Publicize my death. There is never a time that is too early or too late to stop this madness. That’s NRA propaganda to avoid ever doing anything.
#MyLastShot
https://www.kuow.org/stories/if-i-die-from-gun-violence-please-publicize-the-photo-of-my-death-mylastshot
#MyLastShot
https://www.kuow.org/stories/if-i-die-from-gun-violence-please-publicize-the-photo-of-my-death-mylastshot
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-fish-
Footballguy
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