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randall146

USA Shootings

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10 minutes ago, unckeyherb said:

Sooo, so far we have a couple people saying ban all guns, a couple saying arm security guards at schools and that's about it.  I don't how a ban would work, honestly.  There are so many guns in this country and even if you implemented a buy back program (not sure how you'd pay for something on that massive a scale) my guess is a majority of gun owners would not comply anyways.  

Any other thoughts that would curb this issue?

My thinking is that combining a buy-back with prohibition on any NEW guns would mean the value of OLD guns would increase. Current owners would therefore value their guns more and be more careful with them. They’d be locked up tighter so kids couldn’t get them. They’d get too cost prohibitive for criminals. 

The cost of a buy back would be minor compared to the savings from fewer massacres, and the military could use any guns bought back. 

And making ammo super expensive would also encourage people not to waste ammo

I think my plan addresses all of your concerns. 

Also, I don’t think the constitution guarantees the right to bear the newest latest and greatest arms, so my plan might be arguably constitutional. 

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8 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

Randall and others have mentioned some.  Ultimately this is one of the fundamental problems on gun control.  For every possible law or policy that people suggest that could help there’s someone on the other side who says “that won’t do any good” or “I don’t see how that helps” and then nothing gets done.  How about we start with simple things like gun registries and bump stocks?  How about going much further and banning all automatic and semi-automatic guns?

Ultimately, this is Randall’s point if we just sit here doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING then we must not really care.

 

Just a note that I’m not directing any of this specifically to you just replying to your comment - I have not clue what your ideas are.

Bingo bango

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2 minutes ago, randall146 said:

My thinking is that combining a buy-back with prohibition on any NEW guns would mean the value of OLD guns would increase. Current owners would therefore value their guns more and be more careful with them. They’d be locked up tighter so kids couldn’t get them. They’d get too cost prohibitive for criminals. 

The cost of a buy back would be minor compared to the savings from fewer massacres, and the military could use any guns bought back. 

And making ammo super expensive would also encourage people not to waste ammo

I think my plan addresses all of your concerns. 

Also, I don’t think the constitution guarantees the right to bear the newest latest and greatest arms, so my plan might be arguably constitutional. 

I really like this idea and the logic behind it.  Just to make sure I understand you - you would tell gun manufacturers they are out of business.  They can still sell ammo but all new guns cannot be sold.  I’m guessing we would still make new stuff for the military but not the general public?

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I know absolutely nothing about guns and the technology behind them but I’ve asked in a thread before if we could help reduce/eliminate gun violence through technological advances.

My thought would be somewhat opposite of Randall’s in that all old guns would be illegal and any new guns created would have a feature where it couldn’t fire at a human.  Meaning all guns would be smart guns that could recognize they are being pointed at a human and wouldn’t discharge.  Or maybe it would switch from bullets to stun mode or something.  I have no clue how feasible that is or how reliable it would be but with the advancement in other technology it seems like it would at least be possible.  Or maybe it’s the dumbest idea in the history of gun violence discussions.  Definitely one or the other.

Edited by AAABatteries

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6 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

I really like this idea and the logic behind it.  Just to make sure I understand you - you would tell gun manufacturers they are out of business.  They can still sell ammo but all new guns cannot be sold.  I’m guessing we would still make new stuff for the military but not the general public?

Yes to all of that

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4 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

I know absolutely nothing about guns and the technology behind them but I’ve asked in a thread before if we could help reduce/eliminate gun violence through technological advances.

My thought would be somewhat opposite of Randall’s in that all old guns would be illegal and any new guns created would have a feature where it couldn’t fire at a human.  Meaning all guns would be smart guns that could recognize they are being pointed at a human and wouldn’t discharge.  Or maybe it would switch from bullets to stub mode or something.  I have no clue how feasible that is or how reliable it would be but with the advancement in other technology it seems like it would at least be possible.  Or maybe it’s the dumbest idea in the history of gun violence discussions.  Definitely one or the other.

That’s a really interesting proposal. It seems technologically challenging, but if iPhone can do it, Smith and Wesson can

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15 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

I know absolutely nothing about guns and the technology behind them but I’ve asked in a thread before if we could help reduce/eliminate gun violence through technological advances.

My thought would be somewhat opposite of Randall’s in that all old guns would be illegal and any new guns created would have a feature where it couldn’t fire at a human.  Meaning all guns would be smart guns that could recognize they are being pointed at a human and wouldn’t discharge.  Or maybe it would switch from bullets to stub mode or something.  I have no clue how feasible that is or how reliable it would be but with the advancement in other technology it seems like it would at least be possible.  Or maybe it’s the dumbest idea in the history of gun violence discussions.  Definitely one or the other.

The current argument against smart guns(e.g with magnetic or biometric locks) is that the technology is too slow and a second or fraction of a second is all it takes for you to die.

Then the same people (and I am talking about long time posters on this board) argue in terms of safe storage of their guns that a gun safe with a biometric lock is that answer to all problems.

Such contortions would leave me permanently dizzy. 

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7 minutes ago, msommer said:

The current argument against smart guns(e.g with magnetic or biometric locks) is that the technology is too slow and a second or fraction of a second is all it takes for you to die.

Then the same people (and I am talking about long time posters on this board) argue in terms of safe storage of their guns that a gun safe with a biometric lock is that answer to all problems.

Such contortions would leave me permanently dizzy. 

I get that argument but in theory if all old guns are gone and all guns had this feature then everyone is on a level playing field and it's a moot point, no?  Granted I guess that doesn't help against a ninja or a crackhead with a knife but I'm not looking for a perfect solution as one obviously doesn't exist.  Anything that can help us trend in a positive way is something I'm willing to consider.

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10 hours ago, timschochet said:

Does this guy ever have a good idea? 

In retrospect, staying away from issues and coming up with derogatory nicknames for all the other candidates worked out pretty well for him.

Wait, now I'm thinking you meant good ideas that benefit the country as a whole.  In that case, no, definitely not.

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13 hours ago, randall146 said:

1) I started the thread and didn’t relate it in any way to Trump. I don’t think Trump is the cause of school shootings or that he’s made them any worse.

2) There were gun control threads during the Obama administration too. He actually seemed to share in the frustration and it seems like he wanted to do something about it. 

The third reply .... "Meanwhile, the Tweeter in Chief is fanning the flames of a moronic conspiracy and paying no attention to Americans dying ....#MAGA "

If this thread wasn't Trump targeted my apology, I just searched and found no threads cataloging all the shootings and violence when Obama was POTUS. Why start now? 

Obama did glorify the shootings and used it to try and pass gun legislation .... but did anything get better in those 8 years?

Saying things is easy, getting results is different. 

I still say arming schools is the #1 deterrent and the left seems absolutely against that for some reason. I don't know why. We have been desensitized to killing and human death in the US. Abortion meh. Auto fatalities? meh. mass shootings? meh. Inner city violence? meh. Just numbers, it goes away in a few days with the media reporting something new. Its sick and its sad it really is

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13 hours ago, timschochet said:

President Trump should be bashed about gun violence. His endorsement of the most extreme positions of the NRA is shameful. It’s obviously not fair to blame Trump for the actual violence,  it’s perfectly legitimate to criticize his lack of effort to prevent it.

no surprise I'm NRA huh ?

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1 hour ago, unckeyherb said:

Sooo, so far we have a couple people saying ban all guns, a couple saying arm security guards at schools and that's about it.  I don't how a ban would work, honestly.  There are so many guns in this country and even if you implemented a buy back program (not sure how you'd pay for something on that massive a scale) my guess is a majority of gun owners would not comply anyways.  

Any other thoughts that would curb this issue?

Yes. Banning all guns is a non-starter.

I would like to see: 

1. An end to the private sales (gun show) loophole that allows people to sell guns privately without background checks. 

2. Universal registration of all privately owned handguns. 

3. Banning of certain “assault rifles” as before, banning of bump stocks, large gun magazines, etc. 

4. More money for the ATF

5. Higher taxes on all gun purchases, as per cigarettes. Gun owners should be the ones to pay for most of this.

I think these are reasonable demands at this point. 

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13 hours ago, randall146 said:

You’re just dead wrong on this. If that was the point I would have also looked at 2017. I didn’t, and I actually have no clue whether gun violence is up, down, or sideways under Trump as opposed to Obama. It was far too high then and it’s far too high now. 

By blaming myself and everyone else I was actually trying to strip away partisan excuses and finger pointing. 

ok I accept that, my apology

Now, there is only one person to blame when someone is murdered - the person who did the killing. It doesn't matter the tool they used and its one of the clear differences between Democrats and Republicans - guns and gun control.

The left want to heavily reduce/regulate them all, the right wants common sense. 

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2 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

no surprise I'm NRA huh ?

So what? The majority of NRA members believe in ending the private sales loophole and other reasonable regulations. But extremists have taken over a once reputable organization. 

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13 hours ago, BigSteelThrill said:

He is getting political kickbacks from the NRA from Russia... why would he ever do anything else.  Do you completely not understand how Trumps works?

link ?

you do know Bill and Hillary were the recipients of Russia and Ukraine etc right ? 

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12 hours ago, BigSteelThrill said:

The President has responded... says he will be sending military weaponry into the civilian areas for local government type to use.

 

link ?

I know it was mentioned because Chicago and inner cities have lots of violence and the cities are failing to stop it and US citizens are getting in the way of the gun fire.

Where is the link that's he actually doing it ?

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Just now, AAABatteries said:

For you or for other people?  If you, why?

It’s just not possible. For a bazillion reasons. 

I’d personally love to live in a gun free society. But I also believe that people should have the right to own guns if they really want them.

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9 hours ago, honky kong said:

A sizable part of the country has been fed up with the lack of any real attempt to curb gun violence for a long time. The majority of Americans are for tighter regulations by a significant margin, yet nothing gets done. It isn't about Trump, even though he's doing absolutely nothing to address it. And we don't need a thread on gun violence to make that guy look bad - he does it on his own every f###ing day.

a significant portion want to blame the instrument used this is true and they want to take the 2nd Amendment Right from US citizens that too is true.

rules and regulations mean nothing - a gun shooters breaks one, he'll break one hundred

I'm for common sense gun laws and we have them - you'd save far more lives and injuries focusing on automobiles, drug use, medical errors and abortion. 

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9 hours ago, Mookie said:

It's about acceptance and an unwillingness to act.  Kudos to the OP. 

Mookie what would you do ?

Right now, today, I grant you God Power. You have the ability to write and forge US gun laws and enact them - what will they be? 

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3 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

For you or for other people?  If you, why?

I'm one that said go ahead and ban them all as you know.  But it's just not feasible to magically get rid of all of them but the world would be a better place without them.

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Just now, timschochet said:

It’s just not possible. For a bazillion reasons. 

I’d personally love to live in a gun free society. But I also believe that people should have the right to own guns if they really want them.

Sure, no on expects to get rid of all guns but I'm fine with a ban.  To go off on a tangent - my motivation for this is senseless deaths and that's why I want the government to push HARD for driverless cars and pump money in more research for diseases we feel we can cure.  It's also why I'm one of the folks who chimes in the pit bull thread.  I'm not equating those other than in most cases the death is completely preventable and just sad.

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5 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

We have been desensitized to killing and human death in the US. Abortion meh. Auto fatalities? meh. mass shootings? meh. Inner city violence? meh. Just numbers, it goes away in a few days with the media reporting something new. Its sick and its sad it really is

No, you and yours are the only ones that say that.

Abortion rates go up under the GOP because of stupid policies like abstinence-only sex ed and making access to birth control harder for poor people.

Cars are safer than they've ever been and that's due to government regulation.And I'll leave out the obvious point about what a dumb argument this is since cars have a purpose that goes beyond killing people. That's a side effect, not the purpose of them.

Mass shootings - the GOP is the one sitting on its hands while other people are screaming for action.

Don't make dumb points like "we have been desensitized to killing and human death". Since you're into truth-telling, call it what it is - the GOP has become desensitized and you defend them with every breath. Own it.

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6 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:
9 hours ago, honky kong said:

A sizable part of the country has been fed up with the lack of any real attempt to curb gun violence for a long time. The majority of Americans are for tighter regulations by a significant margin, yet nothing gets done. It isn't about Trump, even though he's doing absolutely nothing to address it. And we don't need a thread on gun violence to make that guy look bad - he does it on his own every f###ing day.

a significant portion want to blame the instrument used this is true and they want to take the 2nd Amendment Right from US citizens that too is true.

rules and regulations mean nothing - a gun shooters breaks one, he'll break one hundred

I'm for common sense gun laws and we have them - you'd save far more lives and injuries focusing on automobiles, drug use, medical errors and abortion. 

Yes, they mean nothing. That's why they work in other countries. Jesus Christ.

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4 hours ago, Snorkelson said:

Post an armed guard at the entrance of the school- is there only 1 door? Where will the money come from to pay for it? What does this person do, pat down every student? If not how does this stop anyone? I guess with education reform when I’m using my school voucher, I’ll be sure to pick the school that spends the most on guards. 

Forget about trump- republicans have made lax gun control a part of their platform for years. Guns=votes. Shooting in Vegas, Republican candidate decides now is a good time to give away a rifle at a rally while talking about how the left is coming for your guns. Another shooting, they say we need more people with guns out there. I for one think that more guns in the public will mean more gun fatalities but I guess if theyre shooting the bad guys then it’s ok.  I’m a good guy, but I don’t want to carry a gun around. Not only because i don’t want to have something that deadly on my person but I already have keys, wallet, cellphone, where would I put a gun? Surprised they aren’t giving a tax break if you have your ccp.

where would the money comes from - always important. Military vets would volunteer more often than not to cover the need I'm absolutely sure of it. However if that doesn't satisfy the need, take money from the football program and use that. Surely school safety is more important? 

Guns are votes yes - for the left and right.

now the red part ............. Texas went open carry, no wild wild west like some said. A few incidents of crazies yes but exceptionally few. I can't imagine NOT having a gun on my body. You put it in your pocket or belt holster, ankle holster, wear a tactical shirt/jacket which has a pocket, women put it in their purse. I carry an LC9, very light, compact.

Do you know how many times guns SAVES lives every day? Does that not count or matter ?

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Just now, AAABatteries said:

Sure, no on expects to get rid of all guns but I'm fine with a ban.  To go off on a tangent - my motivation for this is senseless deaths and that's why I want the government to push HARD for driverless cars and pump money in more research for diseases we feel we can cure.  It's also why I'm one of the folks who chimes in the pit bull thread.  I'm not equating those other than in most cases the death is completely preventable and just sad.

I understand your motives and I sympathize. But I think about this issue the same way I think about climate change, Black Lives Matter, and actually all other issues: that it’s vital to have specific, reasonable policy goals to discuss and debate, goals that one can actually foresee taking place. 

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1 hour ago, unckeyherb said:

Sooo, so far we have a couple people saying ban all guns, a couple saying arm security guards at schools and that's about it.  I don't how a ban would work, honestly.  There are so many guns in this country and even if you implemented a buy back program (not sure how you'd pay for something on that massive a scale) my guess is a majority of gun owners would not comply anyways.  

Any other thoughts that would curb this issue?

its unconstitutional to ban guns - you might as well ban free speech and voting - 

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:lol: These threads are funny when conservatives control everything. Zero solutions exactly the blame game.

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1 hour ago, randall146 said:

Also, I don’t think the constitution guarantees the right to bear the newest latest and greatest arms, so my plan might be arguably constitutional. 

when the Constitution was forged, the gun was the most powerful weapon on earth other than a cannon which was just a big gun.

and the founding fathers said you know what? the people of America should own these, for their personal protection and nations protection too.

today, we have nuclear weapons, fighter jets, tanks, rockets ........ guns are not the most powerful weapon by any stretch of the imagination

so yes - absolutely they meant that guns of today should be in our hand 

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52 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

I get that argument but in theory if all old guns are gone and all guns had this feature then everyone is on a level playing field and it's a moot point, no?  Granted I guess that doesn't help against a ninja or a crackhead with a knife but I'm not looking for a perfect solution as one obviously doesn't exist.  Anything that can help us trend in a positive way is something I'm willing to consider.

Therein lies the rub because only a perfect solution is good enough for the gun nuts - and that includes "what do we do about the Zombie Apocalypse then, huh? Gotcha!".

It's pretty sad, really.

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1 hour ago, AAABatteries said:

My thinking is that combining a buy-back with prohibition on any NEW guns would mean the value of OLD guns would increase. Current owners would therefore value their guns more and be more careful with them. They’d be locked up tighter so kids couldn’t get them. They’d get too cost prohibitive for criminals. 

The cost of a buy back would be minor compared to the savings from fewer massacres, and the military could use any guns bought back. 

And making ammo super expensive would also encourage people not to waste ammo

I think my plan addresses all of your concerns. 

well for me, I'm not selling back my guns - your law would make me a criminal and I'm ok with that. 

ammo super expensive would lead to massive black market important and domestic too - kinda like Prohibition. That worked didn't it ?

your plan means nothing and what it would do would mean criminals have more fire power, legal citizens have less

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1 hour ago, AAABatteries said:

I know absolutely nothing about guns and the technology behind them but I’ve asked in a thread before if we could help reduce/eliminate gun violence through technological advances.

why not ?

seriously .......... why have you never been shooting? never hunting ?

your question is like saying why can't we reduce/eliminate computer hacking with technology ....people beat the systems as fast as road blocks can be added, that's why

 

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13 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

where would the money comes from - always important. Military vets would volunteer more often than not to cover the need I'm absolutely sure of it. However if that doesn't satisfy the need, take money from the football program and use that. Surely school safety is more important? 

Guns are votes yes - for the left and right.

now the red part ............. Texas went open carry, no wild wild west like some said. A few incidents of crazies yes but exceptionally few. I can't imagine NOT having a gun on my body. You put it in your pocket or belt holster, ankle holster, wear a tactical shirt/jacket which has a pocket, women put it in their purse. I carry an LC9, very light, compact.

Do you know how many times guns SAVES lives every day? Does that not count or matter ?

Hoping volunteers come in to be security guards doesn’t sound like a solution. Military training doesn’t mean you are qualified to work with/near children, and any volunteer, veteran or otherwise, would have to be trained. Further, we treat our vets pretty crappy to begin with, and now we are going to expect them to babysit our schools for free every day? Other than firearm training a vet isn’t really trained for this anyway. 

Do you think the football team is going to go out and sell overpriced crap to pay for their security guards? Also I doubt most schools football prigrams would pay for a 40 hour a week security guard

Edited by Snorkelson

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25 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I would like to see: 

1. An end to the private sales (gun show) loophole that allows people to sell guns privately without background checks. 

2. Universal registration of all privately owned handguns. 

3. Banning of certain “assault rifles” as before, banning of bump stocks, large gun magazines, etc. 

4. More money for the ATF

5. Higher taxes on all gun purchases, as per cigarettes. Gun owners should be the ones to pay for most of this.

I think these are reasonable demands at this point. 

#1 I'm totally against. Might as well ban all person to person selling of cars, vans, knifes, baseball bats etc too right?

#2 I will never register my guns. Ever.

#3 assault rifles are semi-auto guns and I will never submit to banning them. Ever. Bump stocks are interesting, I'd never heard much about them before Vegas and never had shot one or seen anyone shooting them. A guy with any experience can pull a trigger REALLY fast though, you know that right? And there are many other ways to rig a trigger as well. 

#4 to do more Ruby Ridge and Waco ? But yes funding to stop crime I'm absolutely for

#5 that will fuel black market even more. Are you for sugar taxes? Soda taxes? maybe add a 500% tax on opioids and that'll solve that problem huh ? and like I mentioned before, I'll just buy a $200 RBS machine and reload my own then. Problem solved

 

so none of the above is reasonable at all

reasonable is to not have civilians with rocket launchers, grenades and landmines. reasonable is an instant background check so that people with felonies on their records cannot buy a gun, people being in mental institutions can't etc. Those are reasonable.

what we lack is heavy punishment for murders - the crime is worth the risk - and a culture where human life doesn't matter much

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25 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I’d personally love to live in a gun free society. But I also believe that people should have the right to own guns if they really want them.

but if you did, police wouldn't have guns, civilians wouldn't have guns...... only criminals would have guns because duh, they don't obey the law

that sounds Utopian to you ?

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1 minute ago, Stealthycat said:

but if you did, police wouldn't have guns, civilians wouldn't have guns...... only criminals would have guns because duh, they don't obey the law

that sounds Utopian to you ?

Most British police are not armed- they have special armed divisions but the average cop does not have a gun. Britain has a much lower violent crime rate. I am not saying we could just ban all guns now and it would out like it does in Britain- might be too tough to put the cat back in the bag. 

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5 minutes ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

I'm one that said go ahead and ban them all as you know.  But it's just not feasible to magically get rid of all of them but the world would be a better place without them.

Sure, we won't magically get rid of all guns but assuming we had enough people supporting a ban that would just be an excuse not to do it.  Since we all love our bad analogies around here let me give mine - my house will never be 100% clean but that doesn't mean I want to leave food and trash everywhere.  As it is now we just sit back and do nothing.  I do know it won't happen or happen soon but I do think it can be useful in a discussion to see where people's head are. 

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20 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I understand your motives and I sympathize. But I think about this issue the same way I think about climate change, Black Lives Matter, and actually all other issues: that it’s vital to have specific, reasonable policy goals to discuss and debate, goals that one can actually foresee taking place. 

That's fair - feel free to sign me up for anything that moves us forward.

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Sensible gun reform- let’s work something out @Stealthycat

1. Any gun currently owned cannot be taken unless owned illegally. 

2. Eliminate trade show loopholes (buy this hat, comes with a free gun) to get around waiting period and background checks. (If they aren’t selling the gun they don’t have to do them- so they sell an expensive hat)

3. Assault type weapons may not be purchased without an upgraded permit with a more extensive background check. 

4. Handguns, rifles, shotguns, crossbows, etc will have the usual checks. 

5. Guns sold as a private sale must be registered and documented, similar to a car title. 

So Tim posted almost this exactly. Let me also add this:

If you sell a citizen a gun without a background check or any sort of registration, you will be held criminally and civilly accountable if they commit a crime.

Edited by Snorkelson

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20 minutes ago, honky kong said:

No, you and yours are the only ones that say that.

Abortion rates go up under the GOP because of stupid policies like abstinence-only sex ed and making access to birth control harder for poor people.

Cars are safer than they've ever been and that's due to government regulation.And I'll leave out the obvious point about what a dumb argument this is since cars have a purpose that goes beyond killing people. That's a side effect, not the purpose of them.

Mass shootings - the GOP is the one sitting on its hands while other people are screaming for action.

Don't make dumb points like "we have been desensitized to killing and human death". Since you're into truth-telling, call it what it is - the GOP has become desensitized and you defend them with every breath. Own it.

I say it because its true.

You pass a Govt law that no auto can travel closer than a calculated stopping distance based on speed and you will save tens of thousands of lives and stop literally hundreds of thousands of accidents every year

That is 100% fact - now, because all these cars are 100' apart on the highway, it might mean your 30 minute drive is now 90 minutes but hey, if we can save lives its worth it right ?

no ? that's what I mean - death is ok for the convenience of you getting in a car and going down the road.

cars are safer than every, so are guns

what would you do? the shooter was legal in every way - and had he wanted to, he'd have loaded a truck of explosives and drove into a crowd and detonated and killed hundreds more

Vegas was awful, I don't know how it was preventable no more so than you can stop anyone who's crazy and planning to kill. You cannot stop those people except in the moment its happening and hope you kill them first.

You CANNOT stop me from getting drunk and driving down the road tonight - do you agree? You don't ban automobiles, you don't have breathalyzers in them all, you don't background check when I buy one off craigslist. The liquor stores don't check me when I buy my whiskey

Why ? There are laws that say don't drink and drive. The punishment you hope is enough to keep me from doing it, but if I want to I can can't I ?

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22 minutes ago, Bucky86 said:

:lol: These threads are funny when conservatives control everything. Zero solutions exactly the blame game.

Brilliant post, as usual.  Did the liberals stop school shootings when they controlled everything?

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6 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

#1 I'm totally against. Might as well ban all person to person selling of cars, vans, knifes, baseball bats etc too right?

#2 I will never register my guns. Ever.

#3 assault rifles are semi-auto guns and I will never submit to banning them. Ever. Bump stocks are interesting, I'd never heard much about them before Vegas and never had shot one or seen anyone shooting them. A guy with any experience can pull a trigger REALLY fast though, you know that right? And there are many other ways to rig a trigger as well. 

#4 to do more Ruby Ridge and Waco ? But yes funding to stop crime I'm absolutely for

#5 that will fuel black market even more. Are you for sugar taxes? Soda taxes? maybe add a 500% tax on opioids and that'll solve that problem huh ? and like I mentioned before, I'll just buy a $200 RBS machine and reload my own then. Problem solved

 

so none of the above is reasonable at all

reasonable is to not have civilians with rocket launchers, grenades and landmines. reasonable is an instant background check so that people with felonies on their records cannot buy a gun, people being in mental institutions can't etc. Those are reasonable.

what we lack is heavy punishment for murders - the crime is worth the risk - and a culture where human life doesn't matter much

Why wouldn't you register your guns? You register your car, your dog, etc. I thought we talked before about this and you felt registering guns and getting gun insurance was reasonable. Maybe that was somone else. 

We lack heavy punishment for murderers? Don't most States carry a mandatory life without parole sentence for 1st degree homicide? 

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4 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Most British police are not armed- they have special armed divisions but the average cop does not have a gun. Britain has a much lower violent crime rate. I am not saying we could just ban all guns now and it would out like it does in Britain- might be too tough to put the cat back in the bag. 

They don't have a 2nd Amendment and they have a Queen and a total different system than we have. I mean you cannot wish the 2nd away.

That's right on British police - and when there is a crime they're hand tied to stop it. There is crime in Britain, don't think there isn't

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Just now, Stealthycat said:

They don't have a 2nd Amendment and they have a Queen and a total different system than we have. I mean you cannot wish the 2nd away.

That's right on British police - and when there is a crime they're hand tied to stop it. There is crime in Britain, don't think there isn't

I know but Tim wasn't talking about the United States necessarily. He said he wanted to live in a gun free society. We have a 2nd Amendment and won't ever be gun free unless the people of this country have a massive change in opinion on the issue. 

Of course there is crime in Britain, but there is less crime than we have in the United States. US's murder rate is 4.88 per 100k, UK is 0,92 per 100k

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26 minutes ago, Bucky86 said:

:lol: These threads are funny when conservatives control everything. Zero solutions exactly the blame game.

you want a solution ?

exceptionally harsh penalties - that's going to help just like harsh penalties on drinking and driving help

better Govt system to help the background checks work - they're only as good as Govt agencies make them

arming legal citizens - probably the #1 thing that can be done. Police rarely are pro-active, they're reactive to a situation. I mean arm schools, teachers, clerks in grocery stores, banks ..... someone crazy enough to pull a gun and try to rob the place, justification to shoot them dead

hard? you bet - but if we cannot trust legal trained US citizens, who can we trust? 

nobody will protect you when you need it except you - you think in your home at night a police officer will keep you from being murdered by an intruder? no, nor will he stopt he rapist when you're running a trail in the morning or walking back from a bar downtown at 1 am. They'll get there afterwards, draw the chalk lines and write the report.

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6 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Why wouldn't you register your guns? You register your car, your dog, etc. I thought we talked before about this and you felt registering guns and getting gun insurance was reasonable. Maybe that was somone else. 

We lack heavy punishment for murderers? Don't most States carry a mandatory life without parole sentence for 1st degree homicide? 

because I have a Right to own my guns - I don't have a Right to own a car, that's the Govt giving me permission to. no to gun insurance too - that was someone else you were talking to methinks

there are multiple levels of killing someone and no - they can have light sentences, paroled early etc etc and its clear - the punishments are not stopping the crimes

ask yourselves - why do people kill other people? that's the core problem - not the weapon they use, right ?

stop that core problem - the weapon is irrelevant

 

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This thread is getting steathycatted. 

Why, oh why do people do pointless things?

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9 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

because I have a Right to own my guns - I don't have a Right to own a car, that's the Govt giving me permission to. no to gun insurance too - that was someone else you were talking to methinks

there are multiple levels of killing someone and no - they can have light sentences, paroled early etc etc and its clear - the punishments are not stopping the crimes

ask yourselves - why do people kill other people? that's the core problem - not the weapon they use, right ?

stop that core problem - the weapon is irrelevant

 

The Constitution does not say you have a right to own an unregistered gun. Courts have ruled gun registration is ok and even staunch pro gun lawyers didn't bring registration in front of the Supreme Court when they had the chance in 09. 

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11 minutes ago, msommer said:

This thread is getting steathycatted. 

Why, oh why do people do pointless things?

The issue is nothing can ever change in regards to gun laws because we have millions and millions of Stealthycats in this country. 

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39 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

#1 I'm totally against. Might as well ban all person to person selling of cars, vans, knifes, baseball bats etc too right?

#2 I will never register my guns. Ever.

#3 assault rifles are semi-auto guns and I will never submit to banning them. Ever. Bump stocks are interesting, I'd never heard much about them before Vegas and never had shot one or seen anyone shooting them. A guy with any experience can pull a trigger REALLY fast though, you know that right? And there are many other ways to rig a trigger as well. 

#4 to do more Ruby Ridge and Waco ? But yes funding to stop crime I'm absolutely for

#5 that will fuel black market even more. Are you for sugar taxes? Soda taxes? maybe add a 500% tax on opioids and that'll solve that problem huh ? and like I mentioned before, I'll just buy a $200 RBS machine and reload my own then. Problem solved

 

so none of the above is reasonable at all

reasonable is to not have civilians with rocket launchers, grenades and landmines. reasonable is an instant background check so that people with felonies on their records cannot buy a gun, people being in mental institutions can't etc. Those are reasonable.

what we lack is heavy punishment for murders - the crime is worth the risk - and a culture where human life doesn't matter much

Thank you for your responses, Stealthycat. Obviously, I'm not going to convince you of anything.

My solution, therefore, is to get enough people to defeat your views politically, and pass laws that either you would have to obey or go to jail if you do not.

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