Deamon

*Official 2018 Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles* - Mills proves he's not as bad as Eli

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Parade day is behind us and we embark on our first offseason as Super Bowl Champs! 

Though our celebrations will not stop, our unity will not break, and memories/discussions of this magic season will never fade,  our quest for #2 begins.

Thanks to Insein for the great updates last year.  I will attempt to temporarily fill those shoes this season while he takes a year off.

Let's Do This!
 

Edited by Deamon
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Awesome! Thanks @Deamon and thanks @Insein for the amazing job 2017 thread! 

OK I have a few things to say: Big Balls Doug and Big Dick Nick!! Only in Phily LOL!!

New thread so, I absolutely agree it'd be nice to do right by Nick but this is a business. I'm not sure how far Howie would go to make this easy for Nick. I mean if Cleveland offers their 1 (1.4) no way he turns that down. 

My uncle who's a rabid cowboy fan (he actually pulled for us stunningly) wants us to trade Foles to them. I asked if he has given up on Dak and he said, "yep." :lmao:

Oh and the possibility of losing Reich and Flip??? :X

Edited by Kwai Chang Caine
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13 minutes ago, Kwai Chang Caine said:

Awesome! Thanks @Deamon and thanks @Insein for the amazing job 2017 thread! 

OK I have a few things to say: Big Balls Doug and Big Dick Nick!! Only in Phily LOL!!

New thread so, I absolutely agree it'd be nice to do right by Nick but this is a business. I'm not sure how far Howie would go to make this easy for Nick. I mean if Cleveland offers their 1 (1.4) no way he turns that down. 

My uncle who's a rabid cowboy fan (he actually pulled for us stunningly) wants us to trade Foles to them. I asked if he has given up on Dak and he said, "yep." :lmao:

Oh and the possibility of losing Reich and Flip??? :X

 

Agree on any move on Foles. It might take even more than the 1.4 from Cleveland. We don’t win a super bowl without Nick Foles. Everyone say that again and again. That’s the bottom line. He’s a 7 million dollar insurance policy that won the MVP of the Super Bowl. That doesn’t happen with Sudfeld. Godforbid something bad happens again next season to the franchise QB? With all due respect to Doug and staff, we know its over with Nate coming in. First and foremost, doing right by the organization is keeping Nick on the roster. And I believe doing right by Foles is giving him FA at the end of next season if he wants a better payday. Both a win/win. We don’t trade Foles, unless Roseman is knocked off his chair and hits his head on a table by a ridiculous, and I mean completely ridiculous, offer.   

And to suggest we just sign a veteran FA QB if we trade Foles, check out the QB FA list and who would you want? McCaron? McCown? Fitzpatrick? No thanks. 

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44 minutes ago, Billy Bats said:

 

Agree on any move on Foles. It might take even more than the 1.4 from Cleveland. We don’t win a super bowl without Nick Foles. Everyone say that again and again. That’s the bottom line. He’s a 7 million dollar insurance policy that won the MVP of the Super Bowl. That doesn’t happen with Sudfeld. Godforbid something bad happens again next season to the franchise QB? With all due respect to Doug and staff, we know its over with Nate coming in. First and foremost, doing right by the organization is keeping Nick on the roster. And I believe doing right by Foles is giving him FA at the end of next season if he wants a better payday. Both a win/win. We don’t trade Foles, unless Roseman is knocked off his chair and hits his head on a table by a ridiculous, and I mean completely ridiculous, offer.   

And to suggest we just sign a veteran FA QB if we trade Foles, check out the QB FA list and who would you want? McCaron? McCown? Fitzpatrick? No thanks. 

This is my stance on it as well. Foles stays unless we're getting a 1st plus extra. I'd also think despite Nick wanting to choose where he goes, I would think they'd avoid an NFC team if possible. So the price for AFC is a 1st or a high 2nd. Price for NFC is a 1st + 3rd. Price for NFC East and Minnesota is 2, 1sts. 

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15 minutes ago, Insein said:

This is my stance on it as well. Foles stays unless we're getting a 1st plus extra. I'd also think despite Nick wanting to choose where he goes, I would think they'd avoid an NFC team if possible. So the price for AFC is a 1st or a high 2nd. Price for NFC is a 1st + 3rd. Price for NFC East and Minnesota is 2, 1sts. 

:lmao:

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1 hour ago, Billy Bats said:

 

Agree on any move on Foles. It might take even more than the 1.4 from Cleveland. We don’t win a super bowl without Nick Foles. Everyone say that again and again. That’s the bottom line. He’s a 7 million dollar insurance policy that won the MVP of the Super Bowl. That doesn’t happen with Sudfeld. Godforbid something bad happens again next season to the franchise QB? With all due respect to Doug and staff, we know its over with Nate coming in. First and foremost, doing right by the organization is keeping Nick on the roster. And I believe doing right by Foles is giving him FA at the end of next season if he wants a better payday. Both a win/win. We don’t trade Foles, unless Roseman is knocked off his chair and hits his head on a table by a ridiculous, and I mean completely ridiculous, offer.   

And to suggest we just sign a veteran FA QB if we trade Foles, check out the QB FA list and who would you want? McCaron? McCown? Fitzpatrick? No thanks. 

I would definitely trade him for Cleveland's 1.4. I think that would actually be smart for both teams. Darnold or Allen or Rosen are all gambles. You just never know with these guys. Jameis Winston was first overall pick a few years ago and Foles is better than he is, plus a much better person. With Todd Haley as they new OC, and Foles with Josh Gordon and Corey Coleman, they would have a nice starting point. Plus they'd still have the first overall pick (Barkley, perhaps?).  And Philly have the 1.4 pick would be sweet. 

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17 minutes ago, simsarge said:

:lmao:

Why's that funny? Essentially I'm not trading the Super Bowl MVP to a direct rival or NFC contender without it being worth my while. Why willingly give Minnesota exactly what they were missing for cheap?

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Trying to look at this objectively. I don't see Foles as being any better than the other-than-Cousins group of UFA QBs available. There is a less than Zero chance any team in their right mind is going to give Philly one, let alone two firsts for him. He had an awesome run, and deserves better than the pocket change he's making as Wents's backup and the Eagles are totally in the right to try and parlay that run for the future.

I doubt Brees could pull two firsts.

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If I got a 2nd and some change for Foles and could sign McCown-ish for back up money, I'd do it in a minute.

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6 minutes ago, simsarge said:

Trying to look at this objectively. I don't see Foles as being any better than the other-than-Cousins group of UFA QBs available. There is a less than Zero chance any team in their right mind is going to give Philly one, let alone two firsts for him. He had an awesome run, and deserves better than the pocket change he's making as Wents's backup and the Eagles are totally in the right to try and parlay that run for the future.

I doubt Brees could pull two firsts.

Teams would be crazy not to give Philly a first rounder for Foles. Quarterbacks out of college are a crapshoot.  Just look at the QBs taken in the first round since 2010 (I won't include 2017 because the verdict is still out on those guys):

Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow, Christian Ponder, Blaine Gabbert, Jake Locker, Cam Newton, Brandon Weeden, Ryan Tannehill, R. Griffin III, Andrew Luck, EJ Manuel, Teddy Bridgewater, Johnny Maziel, Blake Bortles, Paxton Lynch, Carson Wentz, Jarred Goff

So, 17 QBs taken in round one and I count 4 of them who are definitely better than Nick Foles.   So there's a ~75% chance that Foles is better than your first round gamble. If I'm a GM, I'd take the known commodity. 

 

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9 minutes ago, simsarge said:

Trying to look at this objectively. I don't see Foles as being any better than the other-than-Cousins group of UFA QBs available. There is a less than Zero chance any team in their right mind is going to give Philly one, let alone two firsts for him. He had an awesome run, and deserves better than the pocket change he's making as Wents's backup and the Eagles are totally in the right to try and parlay that run for the future.

I doubt Brees could pull two firsts.

I don't think we disagree that it is unlikely, or that we think he is worth 2 firsts (although he certainly was for us this season).  We're saying it's not worth it for us to trade him for less then that,  A 2nd round pick (aka Eric Rowe, etc..) is good, but having Nick on our team in case Wentz isn't back is far more valuable for us.  He already has chemistry with our WR's, he'll play with the #1's in training camp and preseason, and maybe through September as well.

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Congrats to the Eagles. Well done!

 

Now as to the “at least a 1st rounder plus for Foles” stuff - is there some kind of disease that the Eagles fans caught from the Patriot fans during the SB?  They were putting forth the same kind of nonsense about Garappolo.  The NFL ain’t FF guys.

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2 minutes ago, Bronco Billy said:

Congrats to the Eagles. Well done!

 

Now as to the “at least a 1st rounder plus for Foles” stuff - is there some kind of disease that the Eagles fans caught from the Patriot fans during the SB?  They were putting forth the same kind of nonsense about Garappolo.  The NFL ain’t FF guys.

In case you missed my post above. Here are the QBs drafted in round one since 2010.  4 out of 17 are better than Foles. Why wouldn't a BR-starved team (like the Broncos) trade their first for a Super Bowl MVP and a known commodity? Instead, they'll hold onto the pick and bring in another Paxton Lynch.  Brilliant

Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow, Christian Ponder, Blaine Gabbert, Jake Locker, Cam Newton, Brandon Weeden, Ryan Tannehill, R. Griffin III, Andrew Luck, EJ Manuel, Teddy Bridgewater, Johnny Maziel, Blake Bortles, Paxton Lynch, Carson Wentz, Jarred Goff

Edited by JuniorNB

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4 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

Teams would be crazy not to give Philly a first rounder for Foles. Quarterbacks out of college are a crapshoot.  Just look at the QBs taken in the first round since 2010 (I won't include 2017 because the verdict is still out on those guys):

Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow, Christian Ponder, Blaine Gabbert, Jake Locker, Cam Newton, Brandon Weeden, Ryan Tannehill, R. Griffin III, Andrew Luck, EJ Manuel, Teddy Bridgewater, Johnny Maziel, Blake Bortles, Paxton Lynch, Carson Wentz, Jarred Goff

So, 17 QBs taken in round one and I count 4 of them who are definitely better than Nick Foles.   So there's a ~75% chance that Foles is better than your first round gamble. If I'm a GM, I'd take the known commodity. 

 

There's a financial element to this too though. Sure the hit rate has been low, but as we know all too well, if you do hit it's such a massive advantage having your quarterback on a rookie deal.  Trade for Foles and you have to extend him immediately.

So any high first round pick is unlikely imo. Low first or a 2nd?  Maybe, I just can't see them getting more than NE got for Jimmy G despite the MVP because of the age difference. At the end of the day, maybe holding him as Wentz insurance is the move.  Would they get a comp pick for him if he leaves in free agency?

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So who are the teams that are in the market for a QB?  Buffalo, NYJ, Cleveland, Jax (potentially), Denver, NYG, Minny, Arizona.  Did I miss anyone?  Of those teams, who would be willing to part with a 1st rounder?  Maybe Buffalo?  I can't see any of those other teams trading their first for Foles. 

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1 hour ago, JuniorNB said:

I would definitely trade him for Cleveland's 1.4. I think that would actually be smart for both teams. Darnold or Allen or Rosen are all gambles. You just never know with these guys. Jameis Winston was first overall pick a few years ago and Foles is better than he is, plus a much better person. With Todd Haley as they new OC, and Foles with Josh Gordon and Corey Coleman, they would have a nice starting point. Plus they'd still have the first overall pick (Barkley, perhaps?).  And Philly have the 1.4 pick would be sweet. 

Fair enough, I just don’t agree that it’s fair for the Eagles. I don’t value having the 1.4 pick over the Super Bowl MVP backup/possibly starting QB on the roster for next season. 

@Bronco Billy We know it’s not FF. As I explained above my opinion relates in context to the Eagles roster for next season. I won’t repeat the Foles stuff, but I can’t forget the fact that our starting QB is currently rehabbing TWO repaired ligaments in his knee. We can all hope that he’s back 100% healthy, but in reality we just don’t know. So I’m not losing our backup SB MVP for anything short of a severe, massive overpayment. It’s not player value, it’s entire team value, needs, and current situation I’m looking at, much deeper than just trade player for x amount. 

Edited by Billy Bats
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25 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

In case you missed my post above. Here are the QBs drafted in round one since 2010.  4 out of 17 are better than Foles. Why wouldn't a BR-starved team (like the Broncos) trade their first for a Super Bowl MVP and a known commodity? Instead, they'll hold onto the pick and bring in another Paxton Lynch.  Brilliant

Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow, Christian Ponder, Blaine Gabbert, Jake Locker, Cam Newton, Brandon Weeden, Ryan Tannehill, R. Griffin III, Andrew Luck, EJ Manuel, Teddy Bridgewater, Johnny Maziel, Blake Bortles, Paxton Lynch, Carson Wentz, Jarred Goff

 

Ummm, because it’s not FF?  Foles has a documented history in the NFL.  He did a great job in relief but has not shown to date that he can succeed as a multiyear starter, much less be a franchise QB.  It’s why he was a backup in PHI in the first place despite the league having several QB starved teams.

 

So to answer your question, teams would rather draft young talent and attempt to develop them at rookie contract prices rather than ship multiple 1st rounders to other teams for the right to pay vet starters wages to documented journeyman backup QBs.  It makes sense if you think about both sides of the equation - really, it does.

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58 minutes ago, simsarge said:

I doubt Brees could pull two firsts.

Brees is going to get paid at least $30M in 2018. That's 16% or more of the projected cap. Foles' number in 2018 is $7.6M, or 4% of the cap.

Foles' value isn't just what he brings to the table as a Super Bowl MVP. It's all the other things you can add to a roster with that extra $23M in hand. Combine the two and I see an argument for him being worth more than a single top-10 pick. (I don't necessarily agree with it, but I see it.)

ETA: I don't necessarily agree that just because you trade for the guy, you immediately have to pay him a big-dollar extension. Even the 49ers, who just made JG the highest-paid player ever, waited until the following offseason to do it.

Edited by Mr. Irrelevant

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55 minutes ago, simsarge said:

Trying to look at this objectively. I don't see Foles as being any better than the other-than-Cousins group of UFA QBs available. There is a less than Zero chance any team in their right mind is going to give Philly one, let alone two firsts for him. He had an awesome run, and deserves better than the pocket change he's making as Wents's backup and the Eagles are totally in the right to try and parlay that run for the future.

I doubt Brees could pull two firsts.

Which is why he's more valuable as a backup then. Not giving any discount to contenders to make them better. After next year, he can choose wherever he wants to go. 

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Id trade him to Cleveland for Gordon and their 2nd. He's not pulling 1.4 and he's only good in a WCO. Maybe Shurmer gets him to replace Eli. Wentz will be our guy for ten years so you get what you can and wish Foles the best. Can you imagine if Foles sits the bench and Carson loses the NFC championship game? That's not going to be possible, he's going to be traded.

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WE KNOW HE’S NOT GETTIN 1.4. 

WE KNOW. 

For ####s sake. 

:wall: 

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Only thing that blows is that DiFillipo is gone and Reich is probably next.  But this is what happens when you win a Super Bowl and I am OK with that!

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31 minutes ago, Mr. Irrelevant said:

Brees is going to get paid at least $30M in 2018. That's 16% or more of the projected cap. Foles' number in 2018 is $7.6M, or 4% of the cap.

Foles' value isn't just what he brings to the table as a Super Bowl MVP. It's all the other things you can add to a roster with that extra $23M in hand. Combine the two and I see an argument for him being worth more than a single top-10 pick. (I don't necessarily agree with it, but I see it.)

ETA: I don't necessarily agree that just because you trade for the guy, you immediately have to pay him a big-dollar extension. Even the 49ers, who just made JG the highest-paid player ever, waited until the following offseason to do it.

 

Yeah, right up to the point where the guy realizes he’s your starter, he sees himself getting paid as a backup, and he holds out for a new contract because he has so much leverage at that point.  

 

And the Garappolo situation was completely different.  He was not traded to be inserted immediately as the only starter.  The Garappolo scenario after the season ended would be more similar, and we saw what SF did so that they didn’t have to go through extended contractual gyrations with him going into next season as the designated starter.

 

.

Edited by Bronco Billy
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I think you have to keep Foles for this season.

 

1 - health of wentz. Keeping Foles might be necessary to start the season.

2 - teams wont be willing to part with the kind of capital you guys think. Worth more to Philly as a insurance policy

3 - teams are dumb IF they trade for Foles they need to run a Foles friendly offense and not shoe horn him into something he isn't. 

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7 minutes ago, Mr. Irrelevant said:

Brees is going to get paid near, or upwards of, $30M in 2018. That's 16% or more of the projected cap. Foles' number in 2018 is $7.6M, or 4% of the cap.

Foles' value isn't just what he brings to the table as a Super Bowl MVP. It's all the other things you can do with a roster with that extra $23M in hand. Combine the two and I see an argument for him being worth more than a single 1st-rounder (I don't necessarily agree with it, but I see it.)

Sorry. Still not tracking. I get that Brees is going to pull a ginormous chunk of a cap %. But he's also ginormously more of a cap % better than Foles or Cousins or any one out on the market. Or almost anyone else for that matter. That's a gamble every team has to make with all their talent. I get Foles is worth way more to the Eagles than just another guy. Even if the prognosis on Wentz was he was going to out 2 months instead of ?? and he was due back 100% this summer. 

But his market value will (arguably) never be higher. To me this is a lot like the NE- Garappolo(sp) situation. I find it hard to believe that 32 NFL caliber QB evaluators didn't know that JG was really good. And nobody wanted to give NE a 1st for him for whatever reason (system/NE middle finger/long term Cap questions/etc). The same 32 know that Foles is a good QB that played great. If for whatever reasons JG couldn't pull a 1st I don't see a scenario (maybe Clevland out of desperation) where Foles does. 

I think he stays because of the uncertainty, but if I'm Philly & someone offers a second and either Wentz is ready super soon or I can pick up McKown for Foles $$ i'm pulling the trigger. It's a huge risk becasue of the chemistry, but I can't see how you pass it up. Especially since he's only got a year left under contract. 

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27 minutes ago, Billy Bats said:

WE KNOW HE’S NOT GETTIN 1.4. 

WE KNOW. 

For ####s sake. 

:wall: 

How about 1.15?

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1 hour ago, Bronco Billy said:

Congrats to the Eagles. Well done!

 

Now as to the “at least a 1st rounder plus for Foles” stuff - is there some kind of disease that the Eagles fans caught from the Patriot fans during the SB?  They were putting forth the same kind of nonsense about Garappolo.  The NFL ain’t FF guys.

All we are saying is we won't give him away cheap.  Most likely just keep him which is fine by me.

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16 minutes ago, simsarge said:

How about 1.15?

Highly doubt it. Don’t want it anyway. Not even sure of the question. 

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2 minutes ago, Billy Bats said:

Highly doubt it. Don’t want it anyway. Not even sure of the question. 

YIKES!!  You wouldn't trade him for the 15th pick? You could take that pick, trade it to Cleveland for next year's 1.01

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20 minutes ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

I think you have to keep Foles for this season.

 

1 - health of wentz. Keeping Foles might be necessary to start the season.

2 - teams wont be willing to part with the kind of capital you guys think. Worth more to Philly as a insurance policy

3 - teams are dumb IF they trade for Foles they need to run a Foles friendly offense and not shoe horn him into something he isn't. 

This.  I think its kinda worthless to keep arguing over Foles' worth and what teams will trade for him.  As others have alluded to, Foles is worth more to the Eagles than other teams.  While he may not be worth a first round pick, I'd hope we don't trade him for anything less (possibly more).

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1 minute ago, Amused to Death said:

This.  I think its kinda worthless to keep arguing over Foles' worth and what teams will trade for him.  As others have alluded to, Foles is worth more to the Eagles than other teams.  While he may not be worth a first round pick, I'd hope we don't trade him for anything less (possibly more).

Agree totally. Just kid of playing a "what if" game as fantasy GM. 

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16 minutes ago, simsarge said:

YIKES!!  You wouldn't trade him for the 15th pick? You could take that pick, trade it to Cleveland for next year's 1.01

Already posted my thoughts upthread if you want to know. No offense, I’m not going to repeat myself. 

Edited by Billy Bats

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15 minutes ago, simsarge said:

YIKES!!  You wouldn't trade him for the 15th pick? You could take that pick, trade it to Cleveland for next year's 1.01

I might trade Foles for the #15 pick if it belonged to someone else, but not to MInnesota. The Vikes and Rams will be Philly's NFC competition for the next 5 years. Why help them out of a bind at QB?

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2 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

I might trade Foles for the #15 pick if it belonged to someone else, but not to MInnesota. The Vikes and Rams will be Philly's NFC competition for the next 5 years. Why help them out of a bind at QB?

I agree about not helping making your biggest division rivals any better. 15 is Arizona. I gotta figure they're in full rebuild mode. Other than QB (and HC), I don't know what else they need, but I'm assuming they're pretty much starting over and I don't see anyone else in the mid to late 1st that needs a starter. I think he would be pretty good fit there. He's young enough and they're not going to threaten in the conference at least this year. 

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Absolutely zero chance Minnesota trades for Foles.  They just handed Philly a first for Bradford.  Who do you think you are?  The Cowboys?  Nick Foles is no Herschel  Walker.

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So, what's the grace period here? Is it longer than a normal franchise gets because we were so deprived? Is it shorter because of how they are positioned over the next 10+ years? When we can we start booing again?????

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I think the Garoppolo trade and the Bradford trade kind of lessens the need to take what you can get before the draft or assume if he's not dealt before the draft that the situation is static. Garoppolo is a special case since he had so much hype but there's still a possibility Foles can be moved in season to a team whose experiments at QB failed miserably.

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Foles has proven more than Bradford or garrapolo so a first is totally reasonable 

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10 hours ago, Deamon said:

Parade day is behind us and we embark on our first offseason as Super Bowl Champs! 

Though our celebrations will not stop, our unity will not break, and memories/discussions of this magic season will never fade,  our quest for #2 begins.

Thanks to Insein for the great updates last year.  I will attempt to temporarily fill those shoes this season while he takes a year off.

Let's Do This!
 

Wait now I can't bump everything you said about Foles when Carson went down.:D

 

Congrats bud, the future is bright. Excited to watch this squad, who wouldn't wan to play for Dougie Balls. 

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