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Deamon

*Official 2018 Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles* - Tough way to go out. Magic finally gone.

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I'm curious what the defensive numbers look like - but I recall that moment when our top 5 CB's were all out.  I swear the defense IMPROVED. Dunno if it's a measure of the opponents we faced or the DL stepping up, but they have been flat out balling.  Maddox looks like a keeper, Rasul comes through in the clutch with picks.  

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Gase fired. Another bullet we dodged by getting Doug. Howie and Lurie really nailed that one.

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12 minutes ago, Insein said:

Gase fired. Another bullet we dodged by getting Doug. Howie and Lurie really nailed that one.

2016 head coaching hires:

Doug Pederson 29-19 (3-0 playoffs, Super Bowl win)

Mike Mularkey 18-14 (1-1 playoffs), fired.

Adam Gase: 23-25 (0-1 playoffs), fired.

Ben McAdoo: 13-15 (0-1 playoffs), fired

Dirk Koetter: 19-29, fired.

Chip Kelly: 2-14, fired.

Hue Jackson: 2-21-1, fired.

 

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If Foles' is able to go, does anyone think the Eagles might activate Wentz as the number two in case Foles' takes a hit and and can't go on?

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18 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

If Foles' is able to go, does anyone think the Eagles might activate Wentz as the number two in case Foles' takes a hit and and can't go on?

Think so.  Why would they decide not to IR him if not for this reason?

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25 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

If Foles' is able to go, does anyone think the Eagles might activate Wentz as the number two in case Foles' takes a hit and and can't go on?

If he's able to go though, the rationale for not starting him gets really sketchy.

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10 minutes ago, babydemon90 said:

If he's able to go though, the rationale for not starting him gets really sketchy.

Not really. He's playing with a broken vertebrae in his back. And obviously still not 100% from the ACL and PCL tears. I can 100% understand why they would prefer not to play him. But in the necessary situation, I can also understand why they would put him out there over the third-stringer. 

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2 hours ago, babydemon90 said:

If he's able to go though, the rationale for not starting him gets really sketchy.

Yea if Wentz is healthy enough to backup, he should be starting. Sudfeld will be the backup.

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Gase for OC?

EDT:  Nevermind, he's expected to get a HC job immediately.

Edited by Deamon

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A hypothetical and I know I’m way in the minority here but should Nick go deep, do you wonder if that shadow, in this city would be too monumental for Carson? I just can’t get past what my eyes tell me every time I watch Foles play. He makes a good run again, how does he not stay? And listen, I like Carson and wish him the world, but would he maybe be better off not being here?

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28 minutes ago, Kwai Chang Caine said:

A hypothetical and I know I’m way in the minority here but should Nick go deep, do you wonder if that shadow, in this city would be too monumental for Carson? I just can’t get past what my eyes tell me every time I watch Foles play. He makes a good run again, how does he not stay? And listen, I like Carson and wish him the world, but would he maybe be better off not being here?

If Foles we're to somehow win another Super Bowl, I think they've almost have to trade Wentz. It would be an awful town for him to play in.  

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3 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

If Foles we're to somehow win another Super Bowl, I think they've almost have to trade Wentz. It would be an awful town for him to play in.  

The pressure would be immense. I’d genuinely feel bad for him. Man, what an unbelievable situation for the team to be in. And almost fictional amounts of “palace intrigue.”

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5 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

If Foles we're to somehow win another Super Bowl, I think they've almost have to trade Wentz. It would be an awful town for him to play in.  

I think Wentz is too mentally tough for it to impact him on the field.  If anything, it will make him work even harder than he already does.  The guy just seems to have a different head on his shoulder than most.

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1 minute ago, fred_1_15301 said:

I think Wentz is too mentally tough for it to impact him on the field.  If anything, it will make him work even harder than he already does.  The guy just seems to have a different head on his shoulder than most.

He could play MVP ball like he did last year every single season and it would still be considered a failure if he didn't win the Super Bowl.  They'd say Foles' could win the big one but Wentz couldn't.  I am all too familiar with Eagles fans. I would wish him out of town for his own good if Foles won another Super Bowl this year. 

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If the Eagles want to trade Wentz, I hope my team gives up anything the Eagles want to get him

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1 hour ago, Deamon said:

Gase for OC?

EDT:  Nevermind, he's expected to get a HC job immediately.

Curious with this one. Only because apparently he’s a ##### and players didn’t like him. If that’s true he may have to settle for OC

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7 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

I can’t find it in me to discuss Wentz versus Foles in anyway until we’re out of the playoffs 

So you’re saying there’s a chance? 

🤣

Edited by Kwai Chang Caine

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17 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

Curious with this one. Only because apparently he’s a ##### and players didn’t like him. If that’s true he may have to settle for OC

I think a lot of it has to do with how many positions are open, and the options that are available.  Most teams are looking for offensive coaches.  That means there's 8 openings, and Gase is likely the "best" offensive minded coach that just got fired.  I think he's not great, but he still managed to pull off some decent seasons in Miami without a lot of talent.  He'll find a place somewhere for sure.

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3 hours ago, fred_1_15301 said:

I think Wentz is too mentally tough for it to impact him on the field.  If anything, it will make him work even harder than he already does.  The guy just seems to have a different head on his shoulder than most.

Nobody could deal with that much pressure and not let it negatively affect them. For a year or two? Maybe. But the pressure would build. 

I suppose it depends though. If Foles went somewhere and tanked it’d be easier.

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10 hours ago, Deamon said:

Gase for OC?

EDT:  Nevermind, he's expected to get a HC job immediately.

I'd take him at OC I guess, but not sure he's the kind of guy that is good to settle in at OC now for a few years.  Seems like he really fought for MORE control, so to take a tep back would be painful.

Dunno who would take him at HC, Miami was downright mediocre with him at HC though.

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23 hours ago, babydemon90 said:

I'm curious what the defensive numbers look like - but I recall that moment when our top 5 CB's were all out.  I swear the defense IMPROVED. Dunno if it's a measure of the opponents we faced or the DL stepping up, but they have been flat out balling.  Maddox looks like a keeper, Rasul comes through in the clutch with picks.  

I've been saying Maddox and Rasul were gonna be keeper. Maddox could be a steal too. 

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14 hours ago, Insein said:

Gase fired. Another bullet we dodged by getting Doug. Howie and Lurie really nailed that one.

out of the 7 coaches hired in 2016 Doug Pederson is the only HC that is still on the team that hired him. As Doug said he was coach 7 of 7 that year. 

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8 hours ago, Deamon said:

I think a lot of it has to do with how many positions are open, and the options that are available.  Most teams are looking for offensive coaches.  That means there's 8 openings, and Gase is likely the "best" offensive minded coach that just got fired.  I think he's not great, but he still managed to pull off some decent seasons in Miami without a lot of talent.  He'll find a place somewhere for sure.

Yeah I heard he wasn't well liked by players in MIA. Heard some gal that some people were not fans of how he handled the AJayi situation

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So I thought of this today. 

Jaguars get:

Foles

1st this year

4th this year

and 3rd next year becomes a 2nd if Foles make Playoffs

Eagles get:

Jalen Ramsey

and a 3rd 

Jags need a QB Eagles could use a CB. Jags won't be able to keep Ramsey plus Fournette and others. 

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5 hours ago, voiceofunreason said:

Nobody could deal with that much pressure and not let it negatively affect them. For a year or two? Maybe. But the pressure would build. 

I suppose it depends though. If Foles went somewhere and tanked it’d be easier.

I can definitely see Foles going elsewhere and failing. I think FOles is a system guy and Doug and the Eagles just get the best out of him 

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3 hours ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

Malcom Jenkins was one of only 3 guys that played every defensive snap this season. 

It's that Vegan diet he went on 

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29 minutes ago, DJackson10 said:

Jags won't be able to keep Ramsey plus Fournette and others. 

Ramsey contract literally gives the Jags zero reason to trade/cut him

 

His 2019 cap# is equal to dead cap number  if cut/traded

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/jacksonville-jaguars/jalen-ramsey-18953/

 

 

Edited by JaxBill

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6 hours ago, DJackson10 said:

I can definitely see Foles going elsewhere and failing. I think FOles is a system guy and Doug and the Eagles just get the best out of him 

How many QBs would you say aren’t “system guys”? Even here on our own team, hasn’t it been established that Foles does better with the RPO offense than Wentz which means in a way they are BOTH somewhat system dependent? I’ll grant you that Wentz is likely more adaptable to more systems due to his athleticism (and maybe he’s smarter too although I don’t think he reads the field as well. Yet.)

We know Foles has been quite successful for his years in Philly under Kelly and Doug. That’s two systems. And he sucked with Fisher who could likely make Marino look bad. That’s one system. So what do we really know?

But I do agree with your statement that Doug gets the best out of him. Isn’t that the case with most successful teams though? You have to have great coaching and support for the player. I think it’s a very small number of QBs—less than 5 probably—that could thrive regardless of circumstances. And no I sure don’t put Wentz in that category. Yet.

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9 hours ago, DJackson10 said:

I can definitely see Foles going elsewhere and failing. I think FOles is a system guy and Doug and the Eagles just get the best out of him 

Yes, like Case Keenum with Shurmer. To bad Elway didn't see that. :P

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4 hours ago, Kwai Chang Caine said:

How many QBs would you say aren’t “system guys”? Even here on our own team, hasn’t it been established that Foles does better with the RPO offense than Wentz which means in a way they are BOTH somewhat system dependent? I’ll grant you that Wentz is likely more adaptable to more systems due to his athleticism (and maybe he’s smarter too although I don’t think he reads the field as well. Yet.)

We know Foles has been quite successful for his years in Philly under Kelly and Doug. That’s two systems. And he sucked with Fisher who could likely make Marino look bad. That’s one system. So what do we really know?

But I do agree with your statement that Doug gets the best out of him. Isn’t that the case with most successful teams though? You have to have great coaching and support for the player. I think it’s a very small number of QBs—less than 5 probably—that could thrive regardless of circumstances. And no I sure don’t put Wentz in that category. Yet.

Dismissing his year with the Rams because Fisher was coach is weak.  Fisher didn't fail to read the defenses or throw the interceptions. His offense might not be one that allows quarterbacks to rack up big numbers, but he still the one taking the snaps reading the defenses and making the throws. Foles was terrible that year.  He doesn't get a mulligan. 

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2 hours ago, JuniorNB said:

Dismissing his year with the Rams because Fisher was coach is weak.  Fisher didn't fail to read the defenses or throw the interceptions. His offense might not be one that allows quarterbacks to rack up big numbers, but he still the one taking the snaps reading the defenses and making the throws. Foles was terrible that year.  He doesn't get a mulligan. 

Fisher also had Goff & made him look terrible. Now look at him...

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23 hours ago, JuniorNB said:

If Foles we're to somehow win another Super Bowl, I think they've almost have to trade Wentz. It would be an awful town for him to play in.  

Disagree. He’s not thin-skinned like McNabb. The opposite, in fact. 

Under Lurie, the team has never made moves based on what it thinks the fanbase wants, and that would not start now.

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29 minutes ago, hispeedthinmint said:

Fisher also had Goff & made him look terrible. Now look at him...

Right.  If anything, running an offense on a Fisher team is the epitome of deserving a mulligan.  

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11 minutes ago, unckeyherb said:

Right.  If anything, running an offense on a Fisher team is the epitome of deserving a mulligan.  

I always thought he hampered McNair too. Look at how much better he was in Baltimore at passing. Fisher and Buddy Ryan were cut from the same cloth as far as offensive philosophy goes.

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3 hours ago, JuniorNB said:

Dismissing his year with the Rams because Fisher was coach is weak.  Fisher didn't fail to read the defenses or throw the interceptions. His offense might not be one that allows quarterbacks to rack up big numbers, but he still the one taking the snaps reading the defenses and making the throws. Foles was terrible that year.  He doesn't get a mulligan. 

Oh Ok. Then I guess we have to factor in Wentz’s 7-9 2016 record and his 5-6 record this year. Two losing records sandwiched around an absolutely brilliant 11-2 run last year. Which is the real Wentz? The guy with two losing records or the guy with the brilliant run last year? If Foles doesn’t get a mulligan for Fisher, then don’t give Wentz any either. You seem 100% convinced Wentz is the 11-2 guy despite his losing record this year. And hey, I hope you’re right! I am not 100% convinced though. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: it doesn’t seem like many of you on this board even want to objectively discuss pros and cons of keeping either player. It’s as if in most minds it’s an absolute slam dunk Wentz is the overwhelmingly clear better option. Despite the injury history; despite the records of both players this year; despite the fact that what if Foles is just a better fit for Doug (not the least of which Doug calls a better balanced game and the line doesn’t have to hold their blocks so damn long waiting for Wentz to escape and find Ertz) and for the team and is a PROVEN winner of the biggest of games while Wentz’s track record with 4th quarter comebacks  is not very good at all.. What if those intangibles that Nick has are things Wentz won’t ever really have?

We know Carson’s measurables are off the charts—it’s what made him a top 2 pick overall despite being a non D1 player. But Foles seems to have a bit of the intangibles of the ones that were drafted late and won lots of titles. Montana and Brady come to mind. And no I didn’t just compare Foles to them, I just said he seems to have some of that undefinable winning quality they have. 

Wentz is 6 years younger. That’s monumental. I get it. But just as a fantasy hypothetical exercise ask yourself what a trade of Wentz could bring to the team. Possibly incredible resources to build around Foles. On the other hand, what will the financial ramifications be when they sign Wentz to an astronomical contract that will leave the team bereft of talent in many areas? For all we love Howie for making good trades, there is concern for him and Douglas’ drafts lately. And this will all be for a guy with serious injury concerns. Do not for a second compare Foles broken collarbone to Wentz’s multiple knee ligament tear or fractures of his spine. These are serious, serious injury concerns. I hope he 100% overcomes them but it’s no guarantee.

I love them both. I wear a #11 shirt and don’t even own a #9 yet. But I just hope the front office really steps back and gives the most sobering attention they can to weighing the pros and cons of both players. Me just as fan, I can’t look at this and slam dunk say one over the other. It’s far to complicated to me. Foles just shows and has done so much that I can’t just easily write him out of the future of this team.

But hey, it’s just one man’s opinion.

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1 hour ago, hispeedthinmint said:

Fisher also had Goff & made him look terrible. Now look at him...

Yeah because rookies never start off looking bad. 

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15 minutes ago, Kwai Chang Caine said:

Oh Ok. Then I guess we have to factor in Wentz’s 7-9 2016 record and his 5-6 record this year. Two losing records sandwiched around an absolutely brilliant 11-2 run last year. Which is the real Wentz? The guy with two losing records or the guy with the brilliant run last year? If Foles doesn’t get a mulligan for Fisher, then don’t give Wentz any either. You seem 100% convinced Wentz is the 11-2 guy despite his losing record this year. And hey, I hope you’re right! I am not 100% convinced though. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: it doesn’t seem like many of you on this board even want to objectively discuss pros and cons of keeping either player. It’s as if in most minds it’s an absolute slam dunk Wentz is the overwhelmingly clear better option. Despite the injury history; despite the records of both players this year; despite the fact that what if Foles is just a better fit for Doug (not the least of which Doug calls a better balanced game and the line doesn’t have to hold their blocks so damn long waiting for Wentz to escape and find Ertz) and for the team and is a PROVEN winner of the biggest of games while Wentz’s track record with 4th quarter comebacks  is not very good at all.. What if those intangibles that Nick has are things Wentz won’t ever really have?

We know Carson’s measurables are off the charts—it’s what made him a top 2 pick overall despite being a non D1 player. But Foles seems to have a bit of the intangibles of the ones that were drafted late and won lots of titles. Montana and Brady come to mind. And no I didn’t just compare Foles to them, I just said he seems to have some of that undefinable winning quality they have. 

Wentz is 6 years younger. That’s monumental. I get it. But just as a fantasy hypothetical exercise ask yourself what a trade of Wentz could bring to the team. Possibly incredible resources to build around Foles. On the other hand, what will the financial ramifications be when they sign Wentz to an astronomical contract that will leave the team bereft of talent in many areas? For all we love Howie for making good trades, there is concern for him and Douglas’ drafts lately. And this will all be for a guy with serious injury concerns. Do not for a second compare Foles broken collarbone to Wentz’s multiple knee ligament tear or fractures of his spine. These are serious, serious injury concerns. I hope he 100% overcomes them but it’s no guarantee.

I love them both. I wear a #11 shirt and don’t even own a #9 yet. But I just hope the front office really steps back and gives the most sobering attention they can to weighing the pros and cons of both players. Me just as fan, I can’t look at this and slam dunk say one over the other. It’s far to complicated to me. Foles just shows and has done so much that I can’t just easily write him out of the future of this team.

But hey, it’s just one man’s opinion.

Wentz is a siam dunk over Foles.  It's not even in question.  Now if you want to make the (crazy) assumption that his ACL/PCL tear was career-altering and he'll never get back to the player he was last year when healthy, then that's another matter. But last year's Wentz was the best quarterback in the entire league. You should go back and watch video in case you need a reminder. For some reason, you're judging him by the year he was still recovering and then played the last several games with a broken back.  Oh, and his numbers this year, at probably 75%, were the seventh-best amongst all quarterbacks. 21 TDs and 7 interceptions. With 70% passes complete. And if you take away his one bad game (you want to take away an entire season with the Rams for Foles), he was 21/4.  And that's his poor season. Think about that

Edited by JuniorNB

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I think Wentz has A) the longevity to build another two or three teams/two or three Super Bowl runs around and B) more talent to be competitive in "leaner" roster years (i.e. the Aaron Rodgers Theory...as long as he's on the field, his team CAN win) that Foles doesn't have.  I don't want to dismiss Foles by just labeling him a "right place/right time" guy.  Foles clicked with THIS roster.  ....but this roster is going to be turned sideways in the next two/three years......and I don't know if Foles has enough talent to be a guy to force the league to respect a .500 (or maybe even lower ) level/roster team.

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1 hour ago, JuniorNB said:

Wentz is a siam dunk over Foles.  It's not even in question.  Now if you want to make the (crazy) assumption that his ACL/PCL tear was career-altering and he'll never get back to the player he was last year when healthy, then that's another matter. But last year's Wentz was the best quarterback in the entire league. You should go back and watch video in case you need a reminder. For some reason, you're judging him by the year he was still recovering and then played the last several games with a broken back.  Oh, and his numbers this year, at probably 75%, were the seventh-best amongst all quarterbacks. 21 TDs and 7 interceptions. With 70% passes complete. And if you take away his one bad game (you want to take away an entire season with the Rams for Foles), he was 21/4.  And that's his poor season. Think about that

Slam dunk? Ok man. I hope you prove to be in the right on this. I sincerely do. I wish I was as confident but I’m not. In any case, we got more immediate concerns 😉

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7 minutes ago, Kwai Chang Caine said:

Slam dunk? Ok man. I hope you prove to be in the right on this. I sincerely do. I wish I was as confident but I’m not. In any case, we got more immediate concerns 😉

Be honest. You had doubts about Wentz last year when he was the MVP favorite and earned Philly home field throughout?   Or this year, when he was recovering from ACL/PCL surgery and broken vertebrae?

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19 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

Be honest. You had doubts about Wentz last year when he was the MVP favorite and earned Philly home field throughout?   Or this year, when he was recovering from ACL/PCL surgery and broken vertebrae?

No, I had no doubts last year. I thought he was playing at a transcendent level. But the injuries and some somewhat mild concerns that perhaps the league has caught up with him a bit leave me a little worried moving forward. I think it’s a crime he didn’t win MVP. I thought he deserved it even with the shortened season. But watching him find less success than Foles this year leaves me to wonder. Perhaps year two post op he will be back to what he was as the 11-2 Carson. And if so, I’ll happily eat crow and flog myself for not having the supreme faith in him that you do.

Again, I’m amazed that anyone sees the situation—as it stands today—as a 100% slam dunk.   

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42 minutes ago, Kwai Chang Caine said:

No, I had no doubts last year. I thought he was playing at a transcendent level. But the injuries and some somewhat mild concerns that perhaps the league has caught up with him a bit leave me a little worried moving forward. I think it’s a crime he didn’t win MVP. I thought he deserved it even with the shortened season. But watching him find less success than Foles this year leaves me to wonder. Perhaps year two post op he will be back to what he was as the 11-2 Carson. And if so, I’ll happily eat crow and flog myself for not having the supreme faith in him that you do.

Again, I’m amazed that anyone sees the situation—as it stands today—as a 100% slam dunk.   

Wentz is the future without question. He’s a stud in every way you evaluate a franchise QBS. That said I am concerned about Wentz’s propensity for injury. He plays a style that creates a higher than average probability. 

It was also concerning that he seemed to be alienating Jeffrey(at least) with his over the top tendency to force the ball on a safe throw to Ertz. There is some concern IMO that Foles success and the team’s reaction to it is in his head. To have a similar situation unfold this year may not be helping his mental state. 

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52 minutes ago, JetMaxx said:

Wentz is the future without question. He’s a stud in every way you evaluate a franchise QBS. That said I am concerned about Wentz’s propensity for injury. He plays a style that creates a higher than average probability. 

It was also concerning that he seemed to be alienating Jeffrey(at least) with his over the top tendency to force the ball on a safe throw to Ertz. There is some concern IMO that Foles success and the team’s reaction to it is in his head. To have a similar situation unfold this year may not be helping his mental state. 

Yeah, I think even Junior and I agree on the point that should Foles win another super bowl, Wentz may be better off elsewhere for his own psyche. It wouldn’t be fair to him but the pressure in this city would be potentially untenable.

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20 hours ago, babydemon90 said:

I'd take him at OC I guess, but not sure he's the kind of guy that is good to settle in at OC now for a few years.  Seems like he really fought for MORE control, so to take a tep back would be painful.

Dunno who would take him at HC, Miami was downright mediocre with him at HC though.

They weren't great, but their talent was pretty brutal.  I think he did an okay job in Miami, and with how many openings there are, he might be one of the highest sought after guys out there.

I still want DeFillippo as OC.

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