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SaintsInDome2006

Iran - The Nuke Deal & The Future

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Yeah but other than that, how did you like the play Mrs. Lincoln?

Mohsen Milani‏ @milanimohsen

CNN’s Amanpour: “I would describe pulling out of this deal [nuke deal] as possibly the greatest deliberate act of self-harm and self-sabotage in geo-strategic politics in the modern era.” @camanpour

 

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Just now, Plorfu said:

Whatever you think about the deal itself, we can't be trusted to abide by our word anymore. Trump saw this as something Obama did, not something the United States agreed to. He doesn't think in terms of governance or policy and just backing out of agreements willy nilly because you don't like them is stupid. 

:goodposting:

There's two separate screw-ups here.  The first is the merits of the deal (I guess it's debatable even though all the experts seem to agree) and the absence of an alternative plan/a leader with a functioning brain to formulate and implement one (obviously not debatable). The second is that this undermines foreign policy more broadly. How can any foreign leader trust America to stand by its word?

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2 minutes ago, Plorfu said:

Whatever you think about the deal itself, we can't be trusted to abide by our word anymore. Trump saw this as something Obama did, not something the United States agreed to. He doesn't think in terms of governance or policy and just backing out of agreements willy nilly because you don't like them is stupid. 

Along this same line.....why would NK (or any other country) negotiate any kind of agreement with Trump and expect him to live up to our end of the deal?

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11 minutes ago, Bucky86 said:

Well, and we also removed sanctions from them. If we pull out, then we can impose sanctions on them again. That would hurt them, so at the point in their mind what is the point of staying in the deal?

To drive a wedge between us and our European allies.  If they remain in the agreement in good faith and play this as "the right thing to do" politically, it's a massive win for them on the world stage and at the same time delegitimizes the US's word on the world stage.  So now, the US pulls out.  Great.  We reapply out sanctions.  Then what?  Are we expecting everyone to follow?  If so, WTF would make anyone assume they'd follow our lead?  Our sanctions aren't ever going to be enough to affect change in Iran by themselves.

I'm not saying I liked the Iran deal at the beginning, mainly because it provided no assurances that the monies would filter down to the people of the country.  As shown, I was right about that.  It's no surprise that the money stayed with the elite and government.  But if someone could please outline the ways we are now in a stronger position with Iran than we were while in the deal, I'd appreciate it.  I don't see them.

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I'd be willing to bet the farm* that Trump has absolutely no idea what the "Iran Nuke Deal" is.  He probably thinks it's something that Obama did to give weapons to Iran.

 

 

*not worth that much any more thanks to China's retaliatory actions

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5 minutes ago, Plorfu said:

Whatever you think about the deal itself, we can't be trusted to abide by our word anymore. Trump saw this as something Obama did, not something the United States agreed to. He doesn't think in terms of governance or policy and just backing out of agreements willy nilly because you don't like them is stupid. 

A treaty would be honored.  Probably why we have them.

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Negar‏ @NegarMortazavi

You know the era of American leadership in the world is ending when IRAN can say we stood by our international commitments (which they did) and the U.S. did not.

 

 

Edited by TobiasFunke
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Pretty good chance this spurs further division of US & Europe, isolation of the US, nuclear plant building in the mideast, Russia even more closely allying with Iran. So ripples of chaos basically.

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11 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Bolton or Giuliani? Because Giuliani has lobbied for them.

Bolton and McCain have as well. 

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1 minute ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Pretty good chance this spurs further division of US & Europe, isolation of the US, nuclear plant building in the mideast, Russia even more closely allying with Iran. So ripples of chaos basically.

I'm gonna need a nap from all this winning today.

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24 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I guess I was wrong. This sounds pretty permanent, anyhow. What a disaster. 

The US has found Iran in compliance.

When Macron met with Trump he said he was encouraged by recent attempts by our negotiator from the White House, Brian Hook, to toughen the inspection regime. According to the French Trump replied that he had no idea what he was talking about.

We don't even get leverage out of this.

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1 minute ago, TobiasFunke said:

Go ahead and add Wall Street to the long list of people/groups/organizations who think this is stupid.

All those who predicted Stock Market issues if Trump won the election were spot on. They just weren't immediately correct but a lot coming to pass lately. 

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3 minutes ago, packersfan said:

I'm gonna need a nap from all this winning today.

He did say you'd get tired of winning.   He keeps his promises

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Obama did it....it must be good.

Trump undid it....it must be bad.

Iran goes nuclear in ten years...it will be a good thing.

Who would ever make a deal, any deal, with a country that is run by its religion....a religion that says that teaches that Muslims should generally be truthful to each other, unless the purpose of lying is to "smooth over differences" or "gain the upper-hand over an enemy".

Islam and Lying

Edited by Opie
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Just now, packersfan said:

All those who predicted Stock Market issues if Trump won the election were spot on. They just weren't immediately correct but a lot coming to pass lately. 

oil is going to spike after the Iran deal, tariffs are going to cost low/middle class Americans more on things they purchase as well as farmers who sell overseas...all self imposed that the majority of the gov't and Americans do not want and don't feel it's in our best interests.  I hope the middle class still has that few hundred bucks from the HUGE tax scam....they're going to give it back at the pump.

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Just now, Banger said:

oil is going to spike after the Iran deal, tariffs are going to cost low/middle class Americans more on things they purchase as well as farmers who sell overseas...all self imposed that the majority of the gov't and Americans do not want and don't feel it's in our best interests.  I hope the middle class still has that few hundred bucks from the HUGE tax scam....they're going to give it back at the pump.

I'm pretty fired up about gas prices doubling. 

 

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1 minute ago, packersfan said:

Yay

digby‏ @digby56

Oh man. CNN now reporting that he administration is saying Iran is on the cusp of invading Israel.

In case anyone hasn't noticed Israel and Iran have already had some runins in Syria.

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1 minute ago, packersfan said:

Yay

digby‏ @digby56

Oh man. CNN now reporting that he administration is saying Iran is on the cusp of invading Israel.

 

22 minutes ago, Gr00vus said:

Trump's on his way to finding "his" war. I anticipate active engagement some time in spring of 2020.

I may need to move my estimate for the beginning of hostilities up a bit.

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1 minute ago, Banger said:

oil is going to spike after the Iran deal, tariffs are going to cost low/middle class Americans more on things they purchase as well as farmers who sell overseas...all self imposed that the majority of the gov't and Americans do not want and don't feel it's in our best interests.  I hope the middle class still has that few hundred bucks from the HUGE tax scam....they're going to give it back at the pump.

Is Trump purposely trying to cost Republican congressmen and senators their jobs?  November is going to be a blood bath. 

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I suspect that public opinion will support President Trump. Bellicosity, refusal to compromise, going against peace, and particularly going against whatever Europe wants is always popular with the American public, always has been. Not to mention that we’re talking about Iran here, whom most Americans perceive as a bunch of Arab terrorists. Look for Trump get a bump in his approval ratings. 

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Just now, JuniorNB said:

Is Trump purposely trying to cost Republican congressmen and senators their jobs?  November is going to be a blood bath. 

I understand what I'm about to say here - but Democrats simply cannot muck up the midterms. The Republicans are gift-wrapping them major talking points without even uttering the words Donald J. Trump.

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4 minutes ago, quickhands said:

He did say you'd get tired of winning.   He keeps his promises

Serious question, is this quickhands character a Weebs alias?  I'm noticing intelligence similarities.

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Just now, timschochet said:

I suspect that public opinion will support President Trump. Bellicosity, refusal to compromise, going against peace, and particularly going against whatever Europe wants is always popular with the American public, always has been. Not to mention that we’re talking about Iran here, whom most Americans perceive as a bunch of Arab terrorists. Look for Trump get a bump in his approval ratings. 

Please do the poll for the average worker when he pulls into the gas station and has to pay double the price due to what happened today.

 

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2 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

Serious question, is this quickhands character a Weebs alias?  I'm noticing intelligence similarities.

I dont take kindly to those who dont take kindly.

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1 minute ago, packersfan said:

Please do the poll for the average worker when he pulls into the gas station and has to pay double the price due to what happened today.

 

I’m not sure that happens immediately. Slowly over time, and the public won’t connect the two. 

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Just now, JuniorNB said:

Is Trump purposely trying to cost Republican congressmen and senators their jobs?  November is going to be a blood bath. 

He doesn't care about anyone but himself...he has no strategy, no grand plan.  He goes by his gut and feel and let the facts, consensus, logic, common sense be damned.  He's going to sabotage the one thing, the economy, that he inherited and was humming along.  Sky high gas prices just in time for the summer travel season....

This has to work right into Russian's hands no?  As an economy built completely on natural resources and having economic issues due to lower oil prices this has to be music to their ears...coincidence?

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Just now, timschochet said:

I’m not sure that happens immediately. Slowly over time, and the public won’t connect the two. 

Nope. That's the sad part. 

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4 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I suspect that public opinion will support President Trump. Bellicosity, refusal to compromise, going against peace, and particularly going against whatever Europe wants is always popular with the American public, always has been. Not to mention that we’re talking about Iran here, whom most Americans perceive as a bunch of Arab terrorists. Look for Trump get a bump in his approval ratings. 

until they fill up their cars at the gas pump which impacts every American except for the Tesla owners....

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Just now, Banger said:

until they fill up their cars at the gas pump which impacts every American except for the Tesla owners....

They'll be mighty PO'd but they'll go home, turn on State TV and be told those $5.50 gas prices are Obama's fault. 

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It'd be interesting to see the adjustments those close to this administration made in their portfolios the last few days leading up to this withdrawal.

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11 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I suspect that public opinion will support President Trump. Bellicosity, refusal to compromise, going against peace, and particularly going against whatever Europe wants is always popular with the American public, always has been. Not to mention that we’re talking about Iran here, whom most Americans perceive as a bunch of Arab terrorists. Look for Trump get a bump in his approval ratings. 

Current polling goes the other way and it's not particularly close.

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Just now, TobiasFunke said:

Current polling goes the other way and it's not particularly close.

basically Trump supporters are buying what the President is selling...not unusual...if he said we should bomb Canada the same 29% would be on board.

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I'm sure the U.S. will have a lot of trust from other countries when negotiating deals going forward. By all accounts, Iran is keeping up with their promises. Our country is the laughing stock of the global stage right now. This guy can't leave office soon enough. It may take years to get our reputation back and fix the damage this clown has done.

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Man's got a point:

"Iran is a country that adheres to its commitments and the United States is a country that does not adhere to its commitments." ~ Hassan Rouhani, President of Iran.

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19 minutes ago, Opie said:

Obama did it....it must be good.

Trump undid it....it must be bad.

You can pretty much roll with this on most things.

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1 minute ago, packersfan said:

Man's got a point:

"Iran is a country that adheres to its commitments and the United States is a country that does not adhere to its commitments." ~ Hassan Rouhani, President of Iran.

And the rest of the world takes note

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so what's the plan when the US puts sanctions on oil and Japan, Korea and China continue to buy oil from Iran as they do today?  How good are those sanctions going to be?  are we then going to sanction those countries (our allies) or enter into a trade war with them?  How about our European allies?  We just continue to isolate ourselves and put us on an island....MAGA.

Edited by Banger

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This is smart of Iran - 

 

BREAKING: Iranian President Hassan Rouhani has confirmed Iran will continue the nuclear deal members of the P5+1 even without US. (State TV)

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The world is a cynical place. The world had huge oil interests in the Sudan and did nothing to stop the slaughter of animists and Christians in the South because of the world's oil interests. They'll do the same with Iran, even letting them develop nuclear weapons at the price of trade. 

We need to lead the way on this. Now, does that mean revoking the Iranian deal? If the AP reports are correct, it's essentially a self-monitored situation between Iran and the IAEA, so this isn't the tragedy or travesty this thread is making it out to be. 

It's a bad deal. Personally, I would use diplomatic tactics to ensure compliance with the deal's more striking provisions. Anything to ensure Iran isn't going nuclear.  

 

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1 minute ago, whoknew said:

This is smart of Iran - 

BREAKING: Iranian President Hassan Rouhani has confirmed Iran will continue the nuclear deal members of the P5+1 even without US. (State TV)

It's smart of Iran because they get the appearance of diplomacy with none of the compliance. 

It's actually rather quite genius of them.  

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