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WWYD - Golf injury edition (1 Viewer)

The General

The General

Footballguy
Golfing this weekend and my friend stepped in a hole on the course and broke his fibula.

A little background: The hole was in an area that I imagine would be walked at the very least few times over the course of the day, near the green. The hole was impossible to see, maybe a foot or so wide and a 10 inches deep or so. Had thick grass growing in it so when mowed it just looked flat compared to area around it.

My buddy told the clubhouse what happened but they didn't do anything at the time (made a joke about how the holes are usually marked with flags). He didn't know it was broken until that evening.

Getting some follow up today from a specialist as to the extent of the injury and rehab, etc.

What if anything do you do in this situation.

 
The General said:
Golfing this weekend and my friend stepped in a hole on the course and broke his fibula.

A little background: The hole was in an area that I imagine would be walked at the very least few times over the course of the day, near the green. The hole was impossible to see, maybe a foot or so wide and a 10 inches deep or so. Had thick grass growing in it so when mowed it just looked flat compared to area around it.

My buddy told the clubhouse what happened but they didn't do anything at the time (made a joke about how the holes are usually marked with flags). He didn't know it was broken until that evening.

Getting some follow up today from a specialist as to the extent of the injury and rehab, etc.

What if anything do you do in this situation.
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Watch where I'm walking more carefully in the future.

 
Get a cast on that leg and put up a flag to mark the hole. . . can't think of anything else. . . watch my step next time at that golf course.

 
The General said:
Golfing this weekend and my friend stepped in a hole on the course and broke his fibula.

A little background: The hole was in an area that I imagine would be walked at the very least few times over the course of the day, near the green. The hole was impossible to see, maybe a foot or so wide and a 10 inches deep or so. Had thick grass growing in it so when mowed it just looked flat compared to area around it.

My buddy told the clubhouse what happened but they didn't do anything at the time (made a joke about how the holes are usually marked with flags). He didn't know it was broken until that evening.

Getting some follow up today from a specialist as to the extent of the injury and rehab, etc.

What if anything do you do in this situation.
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Are you asking if he should sue?

 
Is your buddy going to fix that hole and let you golf for free when he takes over?

 
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Juxtatarot said:
Are you asking if he should sue?
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Not sure just curious as to what people think. 

At a minimum the course needs to fill the hole. Didn’t hear the conversation but he said the guy didn’t even ask what hole it was on.

I’d personally expect them to offer a free round just to be nice.

 
The General said:
Golfing this weekend and my friend stepped in a hole on the course and broke his fibula.

A little background: The hole was in an area that I imagine would be walked at the very least few times over the course of the day, near the green. The hole was impossible to see, maybe a foot or so wide and a 10 inches deep or so. Had thick grass growing in it so when mowed it just looked flat compared to area around it.

My buddy told the clubhouse what happened but they didn't do anything at the time (made a joke about how the holes are usually marked with flags). He didn't know it was broken until that evening.

Getting some follow up today from a specialist as to the extent of the injury and rehab, etc.

What if anything do you do in this situation.
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Lets take you at your word here - hole was impossible to see.

Generally speaking - you lose.  Landowner - in general - has a duty to warn (and protect) from defects if they have superior knowledge of the defect.  Superior being the key word.  If the hole was impossible to detect, then it would be difficult to show that the Golf Course owner (or management company) should have known about it.

But, if you can find someone associated with the course - groundskeeper - to testify that they knew about the hole, and told management, then maybe you have a case.

Future deposition:

Defense Attorney:  Did you see the hole before you stepped in it?

Golfer: No.

Defense Attorney:  If you had been watching the ground where you are walking - could you have seen the hole?

Golfer: [there is no good answer to this question]  No = landowner probably not aware of the hole either, and no liability; or, Yes = you owe a duty of care when you are walking, and you violated that duty of care by not watching where you are going - probably no liability.  

 
msudaisy26 said:
Is your buddy going to fix that hole and let you golf for free when he takes over?
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I’d be shocked if he was the first person to step in the spot. Who knows if they have been told about it.

Probably only situation where I’d be calling Saul is if I knew they knew that it was a problem and didn’t do anything about it. That’s probably not a scenario that he’s going to find out. 

 
This is what insurance is for, depending on the hole and where it was located they should possibly pay the medical bills, nothing more as they had no bad intent.

 
Sinn Fein said:
Lets take you at your word here - hole was impossible to see.

Generally speaking - you lose.  Landowner - in general - has a duty to warn (and protect) from defects if they have superior knowledge of the defect.  Superior being the key word.  If the hole was impossible to detect, then it would be difficult to show that the Golf Course owner (or management company) should have known about it.

But, if you can find someone associated with the course - groundskeeper - to testify that they knew about the hole, and told management, then maybe you have a case.

Future deposition:

Defense Attorney:  Did you see the hole before you stepped in it?

Golfer: No.

Defense Attorney:  If you had been watching the ground where you are walking - could you have seen the hole?

Golfer: [there is no good answer to this question]  No = landowner probably not aware of the hole either, and no liability; or, Yes = you owe a duty of care when you are walking, and you violated that duty of care by not watching where you are going - probably no liability.  
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The hole was pretty well hidden. I wouldn’t expect a person to reasonably see it if you were walking normally. Kind of in a weird spot but near the green where people would walk occasionally.

Don’t think the guy is a litigious type. It just sucks because it’s the beginning of summer here.

I’d be pissed that they blew me off but at the same time they didn’t know it was a serious injury. 

 
The General said:
I’d be shocked if he was the first person to step in the spot. Who knows if they have been told about it.

Probably only situation where I’d be calling Saul is if I knew they knew that it was a problem and didn’t do anything about it. That’s probably not a scenario that he’s going to find out. 
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I was only kidding, but as far as medical bills or time missed at work, I would go back and get pictures and document everything. Then go to the superintendent or owner of the course and talk to him. If he won't cover anything the call a lawyer if that us what your buddy is after. 

 
msudaisy26 said:
I was only kidding, but as far as medical bills or time missed at work, I would go back and get pictures and document everything. Then go to the superintendent or owner of the course and talk to him. If he won't cover anything the call a lawyer if that us what your buddy is after. 
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I’m guessing when they hear it’s broken they’ll give him a round of golf and apologize and thank him for letting them know if the condition and say they will fix immediately. 

He’s got good insurance but I’m sure there will be extra costs out of pocket. 

 
The General said:
I’d be shocked if he was the first person to step in the spot. Who knows if they have been told about it.

Probably only situation where I’d be calling Saul is if I knew they knew that it was a problem and didn’t do anything about it. That’s probably not a scenario that he’s going to find out. 
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I'm sure it sucks.  And, I don't think its unreasonable to ask the course to pay for any out-of-pocket expenses.  But from an actual liability standpoint, its a bit shaky.*

I would document the hole - take photos, and I would notify the course of the exact location - that will put them on notice.  But, golf course are literally full of hazards (pun intended) and if you are walking in the rough - assuming this must be in the rough for grass to grow up to cover the hole - you lose most expectations of a level surface.

*I don't know where this is, and even if I did, I have not practiced law in years...

 
A hole that deep had to be known by someone at the course. Something like that isn't occurring naturally that close to the green. 

 
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RUSF18 said:
A whole that deep had to be known by someone at the course. Something like that isn't occurring naturally that close to the green.
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This was my thought. They absolutely have to repair it now. 

ETA: to be fair to the course the area was on a slight slope, it’s not a completely flat area. With its proximity to the green however I would have exepected it to have been an issue in the past.

 
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Sinn Fein said:
I'm sure it sucks.  And, I don't think its unreasonable to ask the course to pay for any out-of-pocket expenses.  But from an actual liability standpoint, its a bit shaky.*

I would document the hole - take photos, and I would notify the course of the exact location - that will put them on notice.  But, golf course are literally full of hazards (pun intended) and if you are walking in the rough - assuming this must be in the rough for grass to grow up to cover the hole - you lose most expectations of a level surface.

*I don't know where this is, and even if I did, I have not practiced law in years...
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This is what I think is reasonable. 

He’ll have more info in the next few days. Not even offering him his round or getting more info from him day of was really weak IMO. This is the least thing a business should do but again I don’t know what he said to them when he let them know. 

 
msudaisy26 said:
I was only kidding, but as far as medical bills or time missed at work, I would go back and get pictures and document everything. Then go to the superintendent or owner of the course and talk to him. If he won't cover anything the call a lawyer if that us what your buddy is after. 
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Really?  I hate the world we live is sometimes.

 
sbonomo said:
Really?  I hate the world we live is sometimes.
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I pretty torn on this. It's a golf course, there's #### everywhere you can trip on. This is right next to the green however and I'd find it pretty hard to believe it hadn't been repaired or been an issue in the past.

We'll see how they react when he calls them back with more info.

 
sbonomo said:
Really?  I hate the world we live is sometimes.
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It really depends - I've given my defense lawyer response in here already.  But, the flip side is - what if the course is aware of a known hazard?  I don't really know anything about this particular hole - but I can imagine a scenario where the course has a duty to fill in the hole - if they are aware of it - which we don't know right now.

It reminds me of the McDonalds coffee case from years ago - most people thought it was dumb - coffee is hot.  But, in reality - the McDonalds coffee, at the time, was legitimately too hot - caused actual severe burns on the lady's leg.  And, McDonalds knew it was too hot.

I was a defense attorney primarily - so my instinct is to side with a defendant - but that does not make every lawsuit frivolous.   Too many unknown facts here to make that determination.

 
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sbonomo said:
Really?  I hate the world we live is sometimes.
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He's being a bit aggressive there, but I generally don't see anything wrong with this plan.*

*I am taking the OP at his word.  By that I mean I am assuming and envisioning a hole right by the green (in other words, not in some area off the fairway and green that wouldn't be regularly traveled) that is of a significant size and not immediately detectable but reasonably discoverable by a greenskeeper.  

 
The General said:
This is what I think is reasonable. 

He’ll have more info in the next few days. Not even offering him his round or getting more info from him day of was really weak IMO. This is the least thing a business should do but again I don’t know what he said to them when he let them know. 
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They were probably feeding off him and what direction he was going when he told them what happened. Like was he really pissed off, etc.  I would bet inside they were really thinking "OH ####, we could have a problem." If he came across as Joe Smooth about it, they probably just rolled with that and felt lucky the guy wasn't going to make an issue out of it.  I would almost bet that hole was "fixed" within a half hour of your buddy leaving the course. 

 
Sinn Fein said:
It really depends - I've given my defense lawyer response in here already.  But, the flip side is - what if the course is aware of a known hazard?  I don't really know anything about this particular hole - but I can imagine a scenario where the course has a duty to fill in the hole - if they are aware of it - which we don't know right now.

It reminds me of the McDonalds coffee case from years ago - most people thought it was dumb - coffee is hot.  But, in reality - the McDonalds coffee, at the time, was legitimately too hot - caused actual severe burns on the lady's leg.  And, McDonalds knew it was too hot.

I was a defense attorney primarily - so my instinct is to side with a defendant - but that does not make every lawsuit frivolous.   Too many unknown facts here to make that determination.
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Also, the poster that prompted the negative response didn't even suggest a lawsuit right away but, instead, documenting the hole and trying to have a civil conversation with somebody at the course. I think that's a perfectly fine approach. 

 
The General said:
Not sure just curious as to what people think. 

At a minimum the course needs to fill the hole. Didn’t hear the conversation but he said the guy didn’t even ask what hole it was on.

I’d personally expect them to offer a free round just to be nice.
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I agree, but would be better if you made the suggestion on his behalf-IMO.

 
Stinkin Ref said:
They were probably feeding off him and what direction he was going when he told them what happened. Like was he really pissed off, etc.  I would bet inside they were really thinking "OH ####, we could have a problem." If he came across as Joe Smooth about it, they probably just rolled with that and felt lucky the guy wasn't going to make an issue out of it.  I would almost bet that hole was "fixed" within a half hour of your buddy leaving the course. 
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I think he was probably pretty quiet about it, he isn't the type to get agro.

This is all second hand but he said the guy cracked a joke but didn't really smile or laugh and was not overly interested in what he was saying. He also said he didn't ask what hole it was on. That part pissed me off.

 
I am also assuming that there is some language somewhere....tied into your green fee payment or something that basically has you agreeing to the fact that you understand you could be injured while playing on the course. 

 
Sinn Fein said:
It really depends - I've given my defense lawyer response in here already.  But, the flip side is - what if the course is aware of a known hazard?  I don't really know anything about this particular hole - but I can imagine a scenario where the course has a duty to fill in the hole - if they are aware of it - which we don't know right now.

It reminds me of the McDonalds coffee case from years ago - most people thought it was dumb - coffee is hot.  But, in reality - the McDonalds coffee, at the time, was legitimately too hot - caused actual severe burns on the lady's leg.  And, McDonalds knew it was too hot.

I was a defense attorney primarily - so my instinct is to side with a defendant - but that does not make every lawsuit frivolous.   Too many unknown facts here to make that determination.
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I am sorry but you are on a golf course.  Watch where you are going.  Why is it someone else’s fault that he tripped?  Turn the table, say someone is walking around it his front yard and trips and falls. Would he be okay paying the medical bills?  I would not.  

 
sbonomo said:
I am sorry but you are on a golf course.  Watch where you are going.  Why is it someone else’s fault that he tripped?  Turn the table, say someone is walking around it his front yard and trips and falls. Would he be okay paying the medical bills?  I would not.  
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That's the thing it was really hard to see this hole and it was in a place where you are expected to be walking. To your question about your home I think if someone trips on your sidewalk that isn't repaired you are liable. Not sure about that but I believe that's the case. I'm sure some lawyers in here know for sure.

No one likes wasteful lawsuits but that's why there are courts to determine what is ridiculous.

That being said I wouldn't encourage him to sue but expect them to at least acknowledge the problem.

 
sbonomo said:
I am sorry but you are on a golf course.  Watch where you are going.  Why is it someone else’s fault that he tripped?  Turn the table, say someone is walking around it his front yard and trips and falls. Would he be okay paying the medical bills?  I would not.  
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:shrug:

Imagine the course is aware of a hazard where its patrons could injure themselves in the course of being on the property.  Lets say there is dead branch hanging by a thread, and the branch is hanging over a cart path - course knows about it, but decides to do nothing.  Golfer walks under the tree, branch falls and hits golfer on the head.   Golf course in trouble.

Lets say you have a small hole in your front yard - and you know about it - and the mailman does not see it, and breaks his ankle - you could be liable.  

You have a duty to protect people you know are likely to be on your property from known defects.  

In this particular case, we don't know anything about the hole - is it really a hole?  Is it just an undulating surface?  Lets say its a legit hole - then it is a hazard, and the question then becomes did the landowner know about it?  And did the golfer know about it - ore reasonably should have been aware of it.  With the facts given, of a hole that is obscured by overgrown grass - that is level with surrounding grass - I can make a pretty good case, the golfer should not have been aware of the hazard.  SO, then its simply down to whether the owner knew, or, and this is important, should have known of the hazard.  And that is the question people are raising - a hole near the green is more likely to have been spotted by groundskeepers than say a hole in the rough 30 yards from the fairway.

 
Oh for pete's sake. Have your buddy call the golf course. Ask to speak to the GM of the course.
 

"Hey, I stepped in a deep hole near the green on hole # whatever. Went to the doctor and it turns out I broke my ankle. You may want to have someone fill that hole so it doesn't happen again."

Then see what they say. If they offer him something, fine. If they don't, he can do one of two things:

1. Try and be an a-hat and sue the course

2. Chalk it up to a guy getting injured on a golf course of all places. 

 
I'd go check the hole again.  If it wasn't fixed I'd be pissed enough to pursue medical expenses at the very least.

 
sbonomo said:
I am sorry but you are on a golf course.  Watch where you are going.  Why is it someone else’s fault that he tripped?  Turn the table, say someone is walking around it his front yard and trips and falls. Would he be okay paying the medical bills?  I would not.  
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It sounds like it was a giant hole, hard to see, by the green. I certainly think it's reasonable to think one can walk free around the greens on a course. 

A golf course, like any business, still has a reasonable duty of care.  Certainly, they can't foresee or fix any gopher holes or whatever in waste areas, etc.  But a big hole around a green? I think it would be reasonable to expect a business to fix such a hole provided they knew or should have known about it. 

 
sbonomo said:
Really?  I hate the world we live is sometimes.
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I do too, but if he was really injured on a course and it was a hole that no one can see then it should be fixed. You are paying to use their facilities, you should be cautious, but not put in a situation where you can cause bodily harm from something that almost no one would recognize as a danger.

In a perfect world the owner would say "Man that is dangerous, my insurance will cover the medical bills and if you miss sometime from work I will split wages or give you free golf to cover it" and the people that got hurt wouldn't try to take the golf course or any business to the cleaners for stupid lawsuits. Unfortunately that isn't the world we will in.

 
ChiefD said:
Oh for pete's sake. Have your buddy call the golf course. Ask to speak to the GM of the course.
 

"Hey, I stepped in a deep hole near the green on hole # whatever. Went to the doctor and it turns out I broke my ankle. You may want to have someone fill that hole so it doesn't happen again."

Then see what they say. If they offer him something, fine. If they don't, he can do one of two things:

1. Try and be an a-hat and sue the course

2. Chalk it up to a guy getting injured on a golf course of all places. 
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As I have thought about it more and read through the thread if they don’t offer him anything they are being huge pricks and he definitley would not be an ###### for wanting his pound of flesh. 

The guy has no reason to sue to cover medical costs (even though he’ll be outta pocket for some I’m sure) and I doubt it would really be worth the pain to deal with. 

 
To me, this is what insurance is for, and this is coming from a commercial insurance underwriter.  Silly lawsuits (and the expenses that come with defending against them) are the bane of my existence.

Perfectly reasonable to ask the course (or rather, the course's insurance) to cover his out of pocket expenses.  If it really was a hole (not just a hill or uneven surface or something) and it was in an area that the course should expect people to be around (that could/should have reasonably been discovered by greens-keepers) .....and it was mowed in a way that made it difficult to see and it wasn't marked, I definitely think they have a responsibility here.

Not saying the guy should go right to a lawyer or demand a 6 figure settlement. But a civil conversation with management to see what they're willing to do doesn't seem out of line at all to me. :shrug:    They "invited" him onto their premises and there's a expectation for them to provide as safe an environment as possible (within reason). To me, a hole of that size right near the green qualifies as something that they probably should have known about and fixed. (or clearly marked). There are plenty of similar hazards at my club at any given time (ground under repair, work area, etc). They're always roped off..

 
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