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Sheriff Bart

Pipe bombs sent to Clinton, Obama & CNN. Days later a mass murder at a synagogue. Trump takes the opportunity to repeat the lie "the media is the true enemy of the people."

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1 minute ago, Hilts said:

I agree the person who did this deserves the overwhelming majority of blame. But people fueling an explosive situation don't get off scot free. You don't get to douse a place in gasoline and leave behind a pack of matches and act surprised and totally innocent when something happens. 

I don't disagree, but I don't accept "but johnny told me to do it" from my kids.  I can't really accept it from a grown adult either.  

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4 minutes ago, timschochet said:

David Dodds was one of several million Americans (yes, several million) who believed that Pizzagate was real.  It was a completely irrational belief. But all David Dodds did is state his belief here in a website read by a few thousand people. Is Dodds truly responsible for some crazy going to the pizza store and shooting it up? I really have trouble with that concept

No the guy that goes to the store and shoots it up is responsible.

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2 minutes ago, Thunderlips said:

With guaranteed delivery of Express Mail......one person could do this. 

For it's cost...there's not a better way than United Postal Service Express Mail to send something important that needs to get there in a timely fashion.

I send a lot of their 2 day priority and it’s pretty accurate. Now was the postage bought at a PO you would think they can track it back and use video to see who sent it. That part doesn’t make sense

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Just now, The Commish said:

I don't disagree, but I don't accept "but johnny told me to do it" from my kids.  I can't really accept it from a grown adult either.  

I agree it shouldn't be that way. Sadly we have a lot of stupid/desperate/gullible people out there who put undue weight into words from others. If you're an elected official or leader of any type, the sad reality is you need to factor this in. 

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1 minute ago, Mike Damone said:

I send a lot of their 2 day priority and it’s pretty accurate. Now was the postage bought at a PO you would think they can track it back and use video to see who sent it. That part doesn’t make sense

Could also have bought online through an IP blocking service and prepaid card.  Unfortunately in my business I deal with a lot of online fraud and that's pretty common.  Although considering that the sender likely believed that President Obama and Hillary Clinton would be opening their own mail, can't say he would even be that smart.

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Just now, Hilts said:

I agree it shouldn't be that way. Sadly we have a lot of stupid/desperate/gullible people out there who put undue weight into words from others. If you're an elected official or leader of any type, the sad reality is you need to factor this in. 

The attitude of the country starts at the top.

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Tom Winter‏Verified account @Tom_Winter

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NBC News: Per a statement from Sen. Kamala Harris' office and local police there is NO suspicious package at the Senator's office in San Diego and the item police did check out was not addressed to her and was found to not be a device of any kind. Reported w/ @anblanx

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1 minute ago, Amused to Death said:

The attitude of the country starts at the top.

Probably a totally different discussion but this is one of the problems, IMO.  People always want to find someone else to blame for their actions.  Trump is responsible for some of the nasty rhetoric that exists.  Trump is not responsible for sending bombs to people.   David Dodds is not responsible for anyone shooting up a pizza place (LOL Tim come on man).

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There's an old saying..."You give a monkey a gun....you don't blame the monkey when it shoots someone".

People forget....but a generation has past since we've started being told how evil, morally repugnant and the number one thread to peoples liberties Democratic/Socialists/Liberals like George Soros and The Clintons are.  It's been over a decade for that constant drumbeat warning in regards to Barack Obama. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

Probably a totally different discussion but this is one of the problems, IMO.  People always want to find someone else to blame for their actions.  Trump is responsible for some of the nasty rhetoric that exists.  Trump is not responsible for sending bombs to people.   David Dodds is not responsible for anyone shooting up a pizza place (LOL Tim come on man).

I'm not the one that wrote that Dodds was responsible. I was making the point that he wasn't.

I read your argument here and it makes sense to me. Yet I read Hilts' argument and that makes sense to me too. Which is probably why I am torn. 

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2 minutes ago, urbanhack said:

The return address on all packages was:  Debbie Wasserman Schultz

That's actually a pretty nice touch.

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I suspect people saying Trump deserves zero blame are wanting to avoid the realization they need to take a long, hard look in the mirror and reassess the rhetoric and officials they've been supporting. 

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25 minutes ago, FBG Moderator said:

Nope. Be way cooler if you come back.

If you popped someone for this, I'm hoping you did the same for NFL2DF? If so, I'd argue you should publicly call out those posts as well to show that neither are acceptable. 

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Just now, Hilts said:

I suspect people saying Trump deserves zero blame are wanting to avoid the realization they need to take a long, hard look in the mirror and reassess the rhetoric and officials they've been supporting. 

The press is the enemy of the people, hundreds of times.  Rough people up, I'll pay your court costs.  Some good people on both sides about KKK members that murder.  Just a few off the top of my head.  It's sickening this is the POTUS.

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2 minutes ago, Thunderlips said:

There's an old saying..."You give a monkey a gun....you don't blame the monkey when it shoots someone".

People forget....but a generation has past since we've started being told how evil, morally repugnant and the number one thread to peoples liberties Democratic/Socialists/Liberals like George Soros and The Clintons are.  It's been over a decade for that constant drumbeat warning in regards to Barack Obama. 

 

 

Human beings are not monkeys, though. 

The conflict of individual vs collective responsibility is as old as civilization, and we've never really solved it.  Political scientists still argue about the Holocaust: should we blame Hitler? The German people? The SS who carried it out? The Jews who collaborated? The army officers who allowed it to happen? Where does responsibility begin and end? These are not easy questions.

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31 minutes ago, timschochet said:

So the question becomes, is it reasonable to blame Trump for what's happened here? A little? A lot? How responsible is he?

I'm honestly not sure how to answer this. I find Trump's rhetoric, especially in recent days, to be hateful and despicable.  Yet I don't know how much we as a society should hold him or any politician responsible for the acts of a crazed individual. I've never been able to solve this in my own mind.

But I certainly think it's worthy of discussion. 

Step one is figuring out who it is, looking into their motivations, etc.  

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15 minutes ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

Probably a totally different discussion but this is one of the problems, IMO.  People always want to find someone else to blame for their actions.  Trump is responsible for some of the nasty rhetoric that exists.  Trump is not responsible for sending bombs to people.   David Dodds is not responsible for anyone shooting up a pizza place (LOL Tim come on man).

I blame the people responsible first.  But we have a very divided country right now.  And our leader promotes violence and incites crowds to hate their political opponents.  Hence, the attitude of our country starts at the top.

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2 minutes ago, shader said:

Step one is figuring out who it is, looking into their motivations, etc.  

Well, we already know it's politically motivated...

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Just now, Bucky86 said:

Well, we already know it's politically motivated...

While that seems obvious and extremely probable, I believe we don't know that for sure. 

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Just now, Workhorse said:

Putting this out there: Cuomo, Holder and Wasserman Schultz are frequent online targets of rabid anti-gun control folks.

Malcolm Nance‏Verified account @MalcolmNance

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INTERESTING: Cuomo confirmed a device sent to his office. Indicative that the bomber is likely resident in NY State. Out of staters don’t think about this governor at the same level as HRC or Obama. The angriest people are upstaters still furious over the NY SAFE gun control act.

10:13 AM - 24 Oct 2018

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Just now, Bucky86 said:

Malcolm Nance‏Verified account @MalcolmNance

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INTERESTING: Cuomo confirmed a device sent to his office. Indicative that the bomber is likely resident in NY State. Out of staters don’t think about this governor at the same level as HRC or Obama. The angriest people are upstaters still furious over the NY SAFE gun control act.

10:13 AM - 24 Oct 2018

Ha!  I guess I'm not the only one connecting dots here.

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7 minutes ago, Bucky86 said:

Well, we already know it's politically motivated...

We don't know anything of the sort.  It SEEMS politically motivated, but we don't know anything.  It could be a Russian agent looking to foment issues, it could be a totally deranged person, it could be a right winger.  

Obviously an angry Trump supporter seems the most obvious, but we don't know that.

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22 minutes ago, urbanhack said:

The return address on all packages was:  Debbie Wasserman Schultz

See?  Totally a false flag operation.  And DWS would have gotten away with it if she hadn't forgotten to leave off her return address.

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1 minute ago, shader said:

 

We don't know anything of the sort.  It SEEMS politically motivated, but we don't know anything.  It could be a Russian agent looking to foment issues, it could be a totally deranged person, it could be a right winger.  

Obviously an angry Trump supporter seems the most obvious, but we don't know that.

I didn't say anything about an angry trump supporter. I only said it was politically motivated. The fact that so far a bunch of prominent political figures had bombs mailed to them is a pretty big indication. (Notice I didn't even say Democrats.)

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Thank goodness none of these devices detonated  and I hope the perpetrator gets the fullest punishment available under the law.

political violence is absolutely intolerable at any level.

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3 minutes ago, shader said:

 

We don't know anything of the sort.  It SEEMS politically motivated, but we don't know anything.  It could be a Russian agent looking to foment issues, it could be a totally deranged person, it could be a right winger.  

Obviously an angry Trump supporter seems the most obvious, but we don't know that.

If it is a Russian agent. It is political, if not an act of war

If it is a deranged person, it is political because that person targeted only democratic leaders

If it is a right winger, it is political because they only targeted lefties

 

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Are we allowed to talk about how CNN had to retract a story about a similar bomb going to the White House because it was blatantly false?  But we're just supposed to rely on the news media and alternate possibilities should not be discussed and instead should be bannable, right?

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6 minutes ago, shader said:

 

We don't know anything of the sort.  It SEEMS politically motivated, but we don't know anything.  It could be a Russian agent looking to foment issues, it could be a totally deranged person, it could be a right winger.  

Obviously an angry Trump supporter seems the most obvious, but we don't know that.

The bolded is an interesting idea that hadn't occurred to me. I'm sure there's other, similar possibilities.

A totally deranged person acting independent of any political motivation seems impossible, though. There's literally tens of thousands of public figures to choose from, picking this group would be one helluva coincidence.

 

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2 minutes ago, butcher boy said:

Are we allowed to talk about how CNN had to retract a story about a similar bomb going to the White House because it was blatantly false?  But we're just supposed to rely on the news media and alternate possibilities should not be discussed and instead should be bannable, right?

I thought it was Reuters that ran the incorrect story about the White House.

But if you think dumping on CNN for making a mistake then quickly retracting it (a common thing) in a thread about someone trying to murder some of their employees and some politicians, by all means go ahead.

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NBC's Pete Williams clears up some confusion on @MSNBC:

One package was address to ex-A.G. Eric Holder. There was a problem with the address, so it was sent back to the return address, which was Debbie Wasserman Schultz's office. That was the return address on the other packages.

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1 minute ago, TobiasFunke said:

I thought it was Reuters that ran the incorrect story about the White House.

But if you think dumping on CNN for making a mistake then quickly retracting it (a common thing) in a thread about someone trying to murder some of their employees and some politicians, by all means go ahead.

Mike Levine‏Verified account @MLevineReports

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Mike Levine Retweeted Mike Levine

SIX. A suspicious package intercepted by Capitol Hill police was addressed to Democratic California congresswoman Maxine Waters, according to three sources. @tarapalmeri @JoshMargolin

 

:shrug: Seems like there might be a DC package, just not addressed to the WH.

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2 minutes ago, Bucky86 said:

Plus that would be a literal declaration of war.

Good point. I guess I was just saying that it's possible there's a suspect/motivation we haven't considered beyond a right-leaning American who did it because Trump and Fox News say those people are evil. That seems the most likely explanation based on the list of targets, but who knows.

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9 minutes ago, butcher boy said:

Are we allowed to talk about how CNN had to retract a story about a similar bomb going to the White House because it was blatantly false?  But we're just supposed to rely on the news media and alternate possibilities should not be discussed and instead should be bannable, right?

Can you show this story and retraction?  I did not hear CNN reporting it and don't be surprised that I am skeptical about your reporting on this issue.

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8 minutes ago, the moops said:

If it is a Russian agent. It is political, if not an act of war

If it is a deranged person, it is political because that person targeted only democratic leaders

If it is a right winger, it is political because they only targeted lefties

 

Not really my point but I’m not going to argue over semantics. The point is that there are scenarios that exist (terrorism, foreign agents) that completely change the motivations of the individual behind this and render much of this partisan bickering moot.  So it’s silly to focus on the why, until we know who it was.

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Just now, shader said:

Not really my point but I’m not going to argue over semantics. The point is that there are scenarios that exist (terrorism, foreign agents) that completely change the motivations of the individual behind this and render much of this partisan bickering moot.  So it’s silly to focus on the why, until we know who it was.

That is fair. It just seems that this being apolitical is an extremely unlikely scenario

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4 minutes ago, tuffnutt said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sF_R5MVgbok

I want to link this video, not because of its content, but spend a few moments looking through the comment section. Anyone who believes that conspiracy theorist are a small faction of the populace is mistaken. 

I count 1642 comments...many of them saying something something something false flag something...

some of those 1642 people could also be bots or trolls....

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1 minute ago, Weebs210 said:

Everyone blaming Trump, you should probably look in the mirror.

done. now what?

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13 minutes ago, butcher boy said:

Are we allowed to talk about how CNN had to retract a story about a similar bomb going to the White House because it was blatantly false?  But we're just supposed to rely on the news media and alternate possibilities should not be discussed and instead should be bannable, right?

Uh...where else would you get your new from if not the news media?

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1 minute ago, Weebs210 said:

Everyone blaming Trump, you should probably look in the mirror.

I mean he’s a racist orange Nazi Manchurian candidate...amirite?

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3 minutes ago, toshiba said:

Can you show this story and retraction?  I did not hear CNN reporting it and don't be surprised that I am skeptical about your reporting on this issue.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/10/24/report-pipe-bomb-addressed-to-white-house-intercepted/

https://weatherinternal.com/2018/10/24/cnn-retracts-story-of-pipe-bomb-sent-to-white-house/

No need for skepticism.  I have provided links when called out in the past.  Of course, then I never hear back from the people who requested it...

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Comments on the fb pages of Todd Starnes, Sean Hannity, Mark Levine, FoxNews hosts, all contain multiple people espousing the false flag narrative.  This isnt some minor back seat conspiracy talk anymore, it's becoming legitimized in real time

 

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