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USA DUI Deaths (and how they relate to other things) (3 Viewers)

KCitons said:
You seem to be stuck on the roadblocks to gun regulation. If you think there are too many alcohol related deaths, then you should be more active in finding a solution. You think there are too many gun related deaths, so you've been active about finding a solution. 

One could make the conclusion that you don't think there are too many alcohol related deaths. 
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That is an insane extrapolation that makes so little sense, and on top of that is so far outside the context of what we were discussing (why isn't alcohol a bigger issue in elections) that we may as well be talking about unicorns at this point.

Regardless, I'll respond.  I am not a politician.  I agree that there are too many alcohol related deaths, and as such I am not going to oppose a candidate in an election if they make reasonable suggestion on how to limit that.  If a politician says we need to require people to adhere to federal ID standards at outdoor beerfests I am not going to immediately cross that candidate off my list as being "anti-booze".  If a brewer's association was funding ads against candidates where a guy reaches for a beer after a long day of work and then it disappears in front of him and a narrator says "Donald J Trump wants to take this god given freedom away" I am not going to go to reply with "#### YEA.  OUT OF MY COLD DEAD HANDS!!!".

And that's the reason that alcohol isn't a political issue.

 
FreeBaGeL said:
That is an insane extrapolation that makes so little sense, and on top of that is so far outside the context of what we were discussing (why isn't alcohol a bigger issue in elections) that we may as well be talking about unicorns at this point.

Regardless, I'll respond.  I am not a politician.  I agree that there are too many alcohol related deaths, and as such I am not going to oppose a candidate in an election if they make reasonable suggestion on how to limit that.  If a politician says we need to require people to adhere to federal ID standards at outdoor beerfests I am not going to immediately cross that candidate off my list as being "anti-booze".  If a brewer's association was funding ads against candidates where a guy reaches for a beer after a long day of work and then it disappears in front of him and a narrator says "Donald J Trump wants to take this god given freedom away" I am not going to go to reply with "#### YEA.  OUT OF MY COLD DEAD HANDS!!!".

And that's the reason that alcohol isn't a political issue.
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You're still doing it. 

Your complaint is about the way gun owners have argued against proposed regulations. You're being spiteful. 

 
Really? Pro abortion, pro choice or anti abortion, pro life. 

If you want to take it a step further, isn't suicide pro choice?

 
KarmaPolice said:
Don't know, but also not sure why that matters.  
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In your mind, it doesn't. But then you're the one that wanted to say:

KarmaPolice said:
I think there is a difference between pro choice and pro abortion
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Encyclopedia.com

PRO-CHOICE MOVEMENT. The pro-choice movement has sought to keep abortion safe, legal, and accessible to women. Advocates of abortion rights began using the term "pro-choice" in the years after the 1973 Supreme Court decision in Roe v. Wade, which found that the Constitution of the United Statesprotects abortion rights. They adopted the term to emphasize that their cause is women's choice, not abortion per se, and to counter the antiabortion, or "pro-life," movement's description of them as "pro-abortion." People in the pro-choice movement believe that women should have control over their reproductive lives as a legal fact and fundamental right, and that abortion should be available to all women.
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 What were they called before 1973?  Pro Abortion. 

 
Still not sure what your point is, but don't feel like arguing about it.  I am against abortion, but pro-choice because I don't get to decide that for other people.  :shrug:

 
KarmaPolice said:
Still not sure what your point is, but don't feel like arguing about it.  I am against abortion, but pro-choice because I don't get to decide that for other people.  :shrug:
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Right. Ignorance is bliss. 

You're against abortion, but pro-choice. It you do realize there would be no pro-choice without abortion?

Keep the bolded in mind whenever you site gun deaths that include suicides. People have a right to decide. 

 
KCitons said:
Right. Ignorance is bliss. 

You're against abortion, but pro-choice. It you do realize there would be no pro-choice without abortion?

Keep the bolded in mind whenever you site gun deaths that include suicides. People have a right to decide. 
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Ignorance is bliss?

You are the one equating the two, not me.  I don't see them as the same thing, and also don't think I have said that they don't have the right to choose that.  

 
KCitons said:
In your mind, it doesn't. But then you're the one that wanted to say:

Encyclopedia.com

 What were they called before 1973?  Pro Abortion. 
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This is false. Before 1973, there was no term for it, but the closest thing was being for a woman having a right to an abortion. The woman’s movement never encouraged abortions, which you so cleverly (not really) appear to be implying. 

 
After all, England has similar problems with alcohol and mental illness that we do. What they don’t have are gun deaths. 

 
timschochet said:
This is false. Before 1973, there was no term for it, but the closest thing was being for a woman having a right to an abortion. The woman’s movement never encouraged abortions, which you so cleverly (not really) appear to be implying. 
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Yeah, when I see the term pro-abortion I assume is a not so thinly veiled attempt to demonize it and suggest that it's the woman's primary form of birth control or that the decision is reached easily and without a care in the world.  

 
timschochet said:
There is no good analogy between abortion and suicide. There is no good analogy between trying to solve mental illness, trying to regulate alcohol, and gun control. These are all non-sequiters.  
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Sure there is. I'm going to call it all Pro-Choice. We all get to choose whatever is best for us. 

 
KCitons said:
You joke. But this proves the point that people will still find ways to hurt other people unless you remove the desire to do so. 
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Sure, in way less effective and efficient ways and with a reduction in casualties.  Remember when SC and I talked about this knife problem and how few deaths we were talking about?  While still sad those people died, the "problem" that the UK has is probably about 1 days worth of deaths in the US from guns.  

 
Three killed, six injured.

Sounds  like a headline for a mass shooting. But it's not. 

Three relatives were killed and six others were injured in a crash while heading for Niagara Falls on a holiday weekend trip, when a suspected drunken driver’s pickup truck hit their SUV, authorities said.

A child of 4 was among the dead, and four other children were injured, Wyoming County Sheriff Gregory Rudolph said.

Six others, including four children ranging in age from 4 to 14, were taken to hospitals. One man was released after treatment. The others’ conditions weren’t immediately available.
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We need to protect our children, but only from guns.

The pickup driver, Richard Sawicki, 20, was arrested on aggravated vehicular homicide, DWI and reckless driving charges. He was arraigned and held on $200,000 bond.
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Twenty??!!? What's the legal drinking age in every state? Complaining about someone than obtains a gun at legal age, while we still make it possible for a 20 year old to obtain alcohol and kill 3 people seems hypocritical. 

 
Not sure why it's so hard to understand that we can do both.  

Sorry there aren't more protests again alcohol, I guess? 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
There are those that believe training, testing, licensing, and insurance will prevent (or at least make the victims better) when it comes to gun regulation.

Don't we have training, testing, licensing and insurance around operating a motor vehicle? Isn't there commercials and PSAs about drinking and driving? Did that do anything to prevent that 4 year old child from dying? 

 
KarmaPolice said:
Ah yes, back to these solutions needing to solve all deaths stuff? 
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Is that what you think?

How about the anger towards gun owners each time a child is killed at a school. But, when a child dies due to a dui? Meh. 

I'll use a SP tactic. You must be pro dui?

 
KCitons said:
Is that what you think?

How about the anger towards gun owners each time a child is killed at a school. But, when a child dies due to a dui? Meh. 

I'll use a SP tactic. You must be pro dui?
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Yeah one of the things I hate most is all the outpouring of sympathy for drunk drivers. Everyone loves them.

 
I don't know what you want KC.  

I am disturbed by both.  No, I am not taking to the streets over every DUI, but I am also not taking to the streets about every mass shooting either.  I highly doubt you are either.  We are talking about stuff on an internet site.   

 
Glass Joe said:
Yeah one of the things I hate most is all the outpouring of sympathy for drunk drivers. Everyone loves them.
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Sympathy? Who said anything about sympathy? 

I'm talking about the inability to control alcohol in this country and the selfishness of people to not act responsibly. Some think that our government can do a better job regulating guns. Even though they failed regulating alcohol or drugs. 

 
KarmaPolice said:
I don't know what you want KC.  

I am disturbed by both.  No, I am not taking to the streets over every DUI, but I am also not taking to the streets about every mass shooting either.  I highly doubt you are either.  We are talking about stuff on an internet site.   
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Just highlighting the truth. (and the hypocrisy)

People are angry that kids might not be safe at school. Or at church. Or at a concert. But how do they get to those places? It's similar to the lefts complaint of the right in regards to abortion. They care about he child in the womb, but then don't have programs to take care of it once it's born. 

 
Keep rocking the "hypocrisy" posts, it's amusing.   I am sure that people worried about their kids' safety at school and church aren't worried about their kids' safety on the way to school.  

 
KCitons said:
Just highlighting the truth. (and the hypocrisy)

People are angry that kids might not be safe at school. Or at church. Or at a concert. But how do they get to those places? It's similar to the lefts complaint of the right in regards to abortion. They care about he child in the womb, but then don't have programs to take care of it once it's born. 
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Guns make schools (and homes) less safe, not more. 

 
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