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Democratic leaders call for Omar to apologize for 'anti-Semitic tropes' (1 Viewer)

Dedfin said:
Ohhhh ha! I'm silly. I thought you were going to link me to a pool that says people like Trump more because of Ms Omar's statements. Because that would make sense. There have been afroementined events that also contribute to these poll, I would suppose. I mean we aren't talking about some political simulator with the only actors being Omar and Trump.
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Nope. As I posted in the other thread, I do think Omar plays a small roll, but only a small one. 

I really don’t want to have a negative feeling about Omar; I don’t really know her. I loved her photo she tweeted when she was elected; it actually made me cry. I think her comments about AIPAC were more silly than anti-Semitic, when I was responding to ren I was trying to differentiate between what I believe is genuine anti-semitism (some of Ren’s remarks here and elsewhere) and her comments. I think her comments about Venezuela are even sillier, and her proposed solution to Israel/Palestine is unworkable. She appears very naive to me which is why I took issue with the notion that she is somehow a leader. But she seems like a nice person, and smart, so I hope she gets better at this. I don’t see her as a villain, at least not yet. 

 
timschochet said:
Nope. As I posted in the other thread, I do think Omar plays a small roll, but only a small one. 

I really don’t want to have a negative feeling about Omar; I don’t really know her. I loved her photo she tweeted when she was elected; it actually made me cry. I think her comments about AIPAC were more silly than anti-Semitic, when I was responding to ren I was trying to differentiate between what I believe is genuine anti-semitism (some of Ren’s remarks here and elsewhere) and her comments. I think her comments about Venezuela are even sillier, and her proposed solution to Israel/Palestine is unworkable. She appears very naive to me which is why I took issue with the notion that she is somehow a leader. But she seems like a nice person, and smart, so I hope she gets better at this. I don’t see her as a villain, at least not yet. 
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Just imagine how she looks to the Trump crowd. She's a woman. He name is Ilhan Omar. She wears a hijab. She has zero fear of Trump and goes right after him.    There is absolutely nothing about her that Trump supporters would like. In fact, she'd be their number one enemy of it weren't for what Pelosi did to Trump over the wall funding.

I agree that she's a bit naïve and has a lot to learn. And I'm not going to pretend I know anything about where she stands on most issues. She's basically only hit my radar because of this anti-sematic nonsense. I just like her spunk.

 
Henry Ford said:
That poll was taken before Omar made her statements. 
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And as I pointed out in the other thread, that wasn’t my point. I’m not blaming her for the results of that poll, I’m suggesting that she’s contributing (in a small but significant way) to the narrative that poll is already evidence of: that the public is starting to believe Democrats are moving too far to the left. 

 
timschochet said:
The public does not. She’s helping Trump. 
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Because the public is afraid of Muslims in large part because of the filth being spewed in conservative media. Before she said anything even remotely controversial they were upset that a Muslim was in Congress

 
timschochet said:
This sort of argument might make you feel better but it doesn’t work with the public. As I’ve pointed out to conservatives numerous times here, nobody cares about hypocrisy or double standards. The public agrees with Trump about Omar, amd it’s part of the reason Trump’s popularity has gone up in the last few days. 
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I find this interesting. On one hand you say the public doesn’t care about this stuff because Trump has a history of anti-semitism and it hasn’t moved the needle, but Omar is losing public support over the “same” thing and needs to dial it back or people will vote for the person who is more outrageous. 

 
timschochet said:
Latest Gallup poll has Trump’s numbers up to 44%, a sharp rise in 14 days. His disapproval rating from 58% 2 weeks ago is at 52%. 

Now 2 weeks ago was the shutdown, so you could argue that Trump’s low numbers were unsustainable. Still, it shouldn’t be this much of a bump so quickly. I think the reason has to be AOC’s New Green Deal rollout combined with Omar. As the Democrats move too far to the left, Trump does better with the center. There is a lesson here....
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timschochet said:
And as I pointed out in the other thread, that wasn’t my point. I’m not blaming her for the results of that poll, I’m suggesting that she’s contributing (in a small but significant way) to the narrative that poll is already evidence of: that the public is starting to believe Democrats are moving too far to the left. 
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Okay.

 
Henry Ford said:
Okay.
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I imagine you’re a pretty good lawyer, because you keep managing to focus on one’s weakness. 

I concede defeat. Omar’s statement had no effect on the Gallup poll. I was wrong to imply that it did. I was wrong to argue that I did not imply that it did. Mea culpa. I got it wrong, and I apologize for doing so. 

My point remains that there is a narrative that the Democrats are too leftist, and I believe this is helping Trump, and I believe Omar is helping to contribute to that narrative. 

 
Dickies said:
I find this interesting. On one hand you say the public doesn’t care about this stuff because Trump has a history of anti-semitism and it hasn’t moved the needle, but Omar is losing public support over the “same” thing and needs to dial it back or people will vote for the person who is more outrageous. 
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No you misunderstood. What I said was that the public doesn’t care about hypocrisy and double standard. 

So when Trump criticizes Omar, the only question the public is concerned with is “is this a fair criticism” (my answer is no, it was over the top as usual.) They are not concerned with Trump’s own hypocrisy in criticizing someone else for bigotry. 

 
timschochet said:
I’ve been watching and reading a number of centrist types very concerned about the possible radicalization of the Democrats, and AOC and Omar are the two names most consistently raised. You haven’t heard any discussion of this? 
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Yes I've heard centrists complain.  I'm asking about your belief that they are "helping Trump."

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
Yes I've heard centrists complain.  I'm asking about your belief that they are "helping Trump."
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Oh. Well that’s pretty basic. 

Trump cant win in 2020 with the support he’s got now: his base is about 35%, plus Republicans who aren’t part of the base but will vote for him due to the (R) next to his name. He needs independents again to win the swing states and that should not happen this time around because most independents have soured on him. The only way that independents might turn again to Trump is if th Democrats are perceived as too far to the left. Therefore Republicans will do everything they can to foster and strengthen this perception. AOC’s New Green Deal rollout, and some of Omar’s statements, help Republicans make their case. They’re unforced errors. 

 
timschochet said:
Oh. Well that’s pretty basic. 

Trump cant win in 2020 with the support he’s got now: his base is about 35%, plus Republicans who aren’t part of the base but will vote for him due to the (R) next to his name. He needs independents again to win the swing states and that should not happen this time around because most independents have soured on him. The only way that independents might turn again to Trump is if th Democrats are perceived as too far to the left. Therefore Republicans will do everything they can to foster and strengthen this perception. AOC’s New Green Deal rollout, and some of Omar’s statements, help Republicans make their case. They’re unforced errors. 
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Very true.

 
timschochet said:
No you misunderstood. What I said was that the public doesn’t care about hypocrisy and double standard. 

So when Trump criticizes Omar, the only question the public is concerned with is “is this a fair criticism” (my answer is no, it was over the top as usual.) They are not concerned with Trump’s own hypocrisy in criticizing someone else for bigotry. 
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What are the criticisms of Omar so far?  That she is anti-semitic?  I don't think what she said was anti-semitic, but can see how perhaps some people may draw that conclusion, but if you listen to the criticisms of her (particularly by right-wing media) they don't offer an explanation, just anti-Muslim rants.  If people think she came off poorly in the hearing with Elliott Abrams, then I don't know what to think.  The guy should be in jail, not directing policy.

As for AOC and the Green Deal, that was obviously a mistake, but I hope she learns from it without compromising herself.

 
Thank you everyone for sharing you view an anti-Semitic tropes, behavior and dealing with it.  I am not very familiar with the fine points of the language and symbols here so this has been great education for me.

 
timschochet said:
Oh. Well that’s pretty basic. 

Trump cant win in 2020 with the support he’s got now: his base is about 35%, plus Republicans who aren’t part of the base but will vote for him due to the (R) next to his name. He needs independents again to win the swing states and that should not happen this time around because most independents have soured on him. The only way that independents might turn again to Trump is if th Democrats are perceived as too far to the left. Therefore Republicans will do everything they can to foster and strengthen this perception. AOC’s New Green Deal rollout, and some of Omar’s statements, help Republicans make their case. They’re unforced errors. 
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You win general elections by turning out your voters, not convincing the mostly imaginary center.

 
timschochet said:
And as I pointed out in the other thread, that wasn’t my point. I’m not blaming her for the results of that poll, I’m suggesting that she’s contributing (in a small but significant way) to the narrative that poll is already evidence of: that the public is starting to believe Democrats are moving too far to the left. 
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just for posterity, what is too far to the left?

 
Dickies said:
What are the criticisms of Omar so far?  That she is anti-semitic?  I don't think what she said was anti-semitic, but can see how perhaps some people may draw that conclusion, but if you listen to the criticisms of her (particularly by right-wing media) they don't offer an explanation, just anti-Muslim rants.  If people think she came off poorly in the hearing with Elliott Abrams, then I don't know what to think.  The guy should be in jail, not directing policy.

As for AOC and the Green Deal, that was obviously a mistake, but I hope she learns from it without compromising herself.
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I can only tell you MY criticisms of Omar: 

1. What she said about AIPAC was wrong and silly. 

2. Her “solution” to the Israeli-Palestinian problem would result in the eradication of Israel. 

3. Her comments about Venezuela remind me of ren hoek. 

 
Franknbeans said:
just for posterity, what is too far to the left?
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There are no set rules for this. It’s undefined, which is part of the problem, because it makes it easier for the other side to label. 

And this may sound controversial but in terms of winning elections, truth and reality don’t matter. Perception matters. 

Here’s an example. In the summer of 2010, the name “Obamacare” was incredibly unpopular- but only the name. Nearly every aspect of Obamacare was popular, but that didn’t matter because the name was unpopular. The result was that Republicans won the elections in a landslide based almost solely on opposition to the name “Obamacare”, which was perceived by the public as socialism. It was all perception. 

I don’t want Donald Trump to be re-elected. It doesn’t matter if AOC and Omar are actually too far to the left, what matters is they are thought to be. 

 
timschochet said:
I can only tell you MY criticisms of Omar: 

1. What she said about AIPAC was wrong and silly. 

2. Her “solution” to the Israeli-Palestinian problem would result in the eradication of Israel. 

3. Her comments about Venezuela remind me of ren hoek. 
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Thanks, but I respectfully disagree 

 
IvanKaramazov said:
My guess is that Pelosi essentially forced her to apologize.  

I posted this in the Pelosi thread, but as an outside observer, I'm enjoying watching Nancy Pelosi not take any #### from the Trumps, AOCs, and Omars of the world.  I may not like her politics, but it's nice having an adult in the room finally.
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By adult you mean someone in the hip pocket of the lobbyists doing their bidding.

 
OrtonToOlsen said:
Great. Will ignore from now on.
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Why? That’s rather silly. Are you suggesting that you’re not biased? These issues are not a matter of fact but of opinion. 

This is the 2nd time today I’ve gotten this reaction. Lots of intolerance from the left in this thread...

 
timschochet said:
BassNBrew said:
Something Pelosi and Trump can agree on.
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I don’t think Pelosi agrees with this. 
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Pelosi forced her to apologize for a remark that wasn't anti-semite.  Besides being on the same page as Trump, she spits on the Constitution just like Trump does.  Wouldn't surprise me if Pelosi and Donald are at the national Archive right now seeing who can roll the most dubs with the Constitution.

 
BassNBrew said:
Pelosi forced her to apologize for a remark that wasn't anti-semite.  Besides being on the same page as Trump, she spits on the Constitution just like Trump does.  Wouldn't surprise me if Pelosi and Donald are at the national Archive right now seeing who can roll the most dubs with the Constitution.
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I have no clue what you’re talking about. Pelosi spits on the Constitution? On the same page as Trump? Lol. 

 
timschochet said:
You’ve read her remarks on all 3 issues and you disagree with me about all 3? 
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Yes, although I don’t necessarily agree with her Israel/Palestine “solution” but i’m not convinced it leads to the eradication of Israel. There is a humanitarian crisis going on that needs to be addressed and I don’t pretend to know how to solve it. 

 
zftcg said:
Are you implying that AOC is going to run for president?
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Well I guess that age thing is a factor.  I misinterpreted some of the posts up thread.

More power to her.  May as well try to get ahead of many of the issues (like Bernie) and screw what everyone else thinks now, unless she is a vp candidate.  I guess Senate is an option at some point, but you can make a good career in the house.

 
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