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That's a different sting in a different county that happened 2 months ago.
I certainly apologize for linking an erroneous press conference. That should absolutely not be included in the discussion. Thank you for pointing that out.
This is the statement that caused all of the kerfuffle.
Does it concern you that these women were kept sleeping in the spa and had no independent transportation?
Honestly, I don't really think it matters what she it starts at, how many there are, whatever.
I understand that you’re very upset. I didn’t actually misspeak and am quite confident in my numbers for a number of reasons. Many of which I’ve addressed in here and are addressed in different links I’ve given. Including a Colorado Springs study that indicates an average career length of five years, a DOJ study finding an average age of 15 at first exploitation, the fact that a high percentage of prostitutes experienced exploitation at a very young age even prior to officially joining the trade, etc.
So, you think the Kraft at Orchids of Asia includes sex slaves and trafficking?
yup,
It did. But then I see that the woman charged as the manager of this operation is servicing clients and sleeping at the spa. It makes me question what story is being told. The story seems... incongruous. Right now it looks like it's not trafficking, not sex slaves.
Do you think they came over here with the means to rent an apartment and buy a car? Could it just be economics? No different than 10 people living in a single apartment or house to save money? Or that a 2 hour commute each way after 10 hour shifts is even more exhausting?
Please post your data.
If massage workers are underage or forced then yes.
That's fine man. We don't have to agree on everything. I just want the conservation to be based upon what we actually really and truly know, which unfortunately isn't particularly much.
This is really my sticking point. The woman accused of keeping them was the one seeing a majority of the clients herself.
I don’t agree with you because I think you and I have different definitions of consent and of human trafficking. Continuing to attempt to browbeat me and ask me the same questions over and over again, using premises and conclusions you pulled out of your intuition and oppositions you have to the best information we have, while admittedly incomplete, aren’t going to change my mind. I understand that you disagree with me. I’m not required to tell you I agree with your position.
I agree. The cops were trying to take this guy down, so they videotaped him without his knowledge to gain a competitive advantage. We should all be outraged at this.
Yep. Unregulated black market services do not necessarily merit accusations of slavery or trafficking. I agree with the italicized and bolded and have two hopes:
It's not worth continuing to debate this. HF is a really smart dude, but any Stats 101 class could use this as a case study for evaluating the accuracy of reported statistics......and they would quickly pick these stats apart like you did.
I was trying to find common ground while acknowledging that we probably disagree on some aspects. I was hoping to have a conversation. Apparently that is impossible with you.
This is pretty much where I'm at, and we haven't even touched the 4th amendment violations. Faking a bomb threat to place cameras? That's crazy time.
It is, of course, up to you, but I've always found Henry, if at times maddening, often edifying and a worthy voice to listen to. If he is not in top form in this particular thread -- and only time will tell -- then his errors are human and certainly not trollish.
This. That way, maybe the awfulness never happened and we might wind up with some humbled authorities who won't overstep their bounds again (though I admit that I doubt that, but it's always a hope).
I’m not sure the person posting multiple studies and articles detailing the charges, definitions, and statistics that we do have is the one claiming he’s the one who alone has the answers. But I certainly appreciate the ignore. Have a good one.
If you hit the three bars in the top right, Account, there’s an “Ignored Users” section you can add me to.
I'm not anxious to be on the wrong side of history, but that's a pretty weak study @Henry Ford cited.
If it helps, as I stated repeatedly, that’s not the only study. There are dozens. Chicago and San Francisco did decent studies (their weaknesses are generally focusing solely on street prostitution), the NIJ has a reasonably decent statistical analysis.
OK, but you seem to agree with the objection rock had (& the article he cited) - an average of 12 to 14 is statistically impossible.
Data is seldom lousy. Generally it’s the use that is.
I get it. I work with a lot of street people and there are certain perspectives / data points we prefer to highlight. For instance, of the 63,000 people in NYC shelters every night, 24,000 are children. We help staff four different shelters which serve slightly different functions, demographics or cohort groups; by far the most popular (from a volunteer signup viewpoint) is the group home that house hundreds of young people age 17-21.
Fair point.
Lol, thanks for the help. After a night of sleep, I'm going to wait on pressing it for now. If you're going to participate in this thread, maybe explain where the heck you are coming from or why you are so certain of the things you are saying, so maybe I have an outside chance of understanding your differing viewpoint.
You posted 1 study and it didn't support your claim. I honestly don't know what's up with you.
Look, why don't we stop dwelling on what age sex work begins on average and instead, agree that sex work by people under the age of 18 isn't great for society? Cause I'll agree with you on that specific point.
