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Robert Kraft (yes, THAT Robert Kraft) charged with soliciting prostitution (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter IvanKaramazov
- Start date
Mario Kart
Footballguy
The Patriots should not be on any prime time tv. No Monday night. No Thursday night. The NFL needs to implement the Death Penalty similar to SMU for the time being. No excuses.
TripItUp
Footballguy
TripItUp
Footballguy
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
As much as I hate the Patriots, God only knows how many games/championships they cheated at, that wouldn't be fair to the players. I hate the NCAA for a lot of reasons and punishing "student athletes" for administrative impropriety is bullcrap.
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I don’t think we know what Kraft, or Childs, or Wessel, were getting or for how much.Joe Bryant said:
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NewlyRetired
Footballguy
The general public perception swing would be gigantic.
It would go from "let the old guy get a hand job in peace" to "prison for life"
It is about a big a swing as we could come up with.
============================================
While we obviously need to wait this out, if he was involved in the nefarious part, I think something would have leaked by now.
NotSmart
Footballguy
I think anyone that goes to a rub and tug massage parlor knows (not should know, knows) that there's a significant likelihood that the girls/women there are not there fully voluntarily, and might be underage.
I don't think they care.
Their sexual desires are more important than the woman's physical and mental well being.
That's actually part of the safety net for not getting caught - those women can't and won't do anything about it.
JaxBill
Footballguy
Networks/advertisers would want money back. In turn all 32 teams get punished.
You want to hurt them? Make them lose a home playoff game (play it on road).
TripItUp
Footballguy
culdeus
Footballguy
culdeus
Footballguy
RUSF18
Footballguy
Think it is way too soon for anything like that to have happened. They're going to get the individual location owners/managers to roll on the guys who own/run the network and only from there are they likely going to be able to determine to what extent the trafficking was taking place. Then they go on to determine if the users were going just to get a handy or if it was well known that this is where you went for underage/exploited girls, not to mention who was really behind the whole operation.
I don't even think Kraft has been taken in yet, so there's a whole lot still to go (including the slight chance he's allowed to skate fully).
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
There probably won’t be any.
And no, I don’t think I’ll probably remember to tag you if I do.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Yeah, why on earth would you think, as Robert Kraft, that a woman you’re paying $80 for an HJ wouldn’t sell the story to the Enquirer? What possible reason would she have for staying quiet if she’s just there voluntarily a couple days a week for extra cash?
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I made my point poorly.
What I was trying to say was that if Kraft is on camera with an underage girl, I don't think the police would have stood in front of the press and said he is only being charged with a misdemeanor.
I also don't see any way Kraft skates unless this is complete mistaken identity which is unlikely since Kraft's own spokeperson did not deny he was there.
Unless they prove he is tied to it or used an underage girl as part of the service, then I think he simply gets the misdemeanor charge (which carries next to no punishment with it) and the NFL fines him between $500k and $1m for conduct unbecoming. I think this is his best case scenario.
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Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
I assume you're talking about my post.
I thought I made it clear that my friend knows she's not the average hooker and that most are in a totally different situation than she is. If I didn't make that clear, my apologies.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
One has to wonder, when he personally made a $100,000 donation four years ago to a group that gets women out of sex trafficking, how he could not know that the women he was visiting were trafficked. Personally as in “spoke personally with the director and made the donation.”
TripItUp
Footballguy
Let's play this out...
So every one of these terrible places is shutdown in the US in a giant nation wide sting as result of this initial bust.
Are the Asian women better off now that they can't come to the USA and are unable to flee whatever they were fleeing from? Do they just end up going to Australia or the other countries that have legalized prostitution? Do men just go to China and other parts of Asia instead of the US based massage parlors?
I'll hang up and listen.
So every one of these terrible places is shutdown in the US in a giant nation wide sting as result of this initial bust.
Are the Asian women better off now that they can't come to the USA and are unable to flee whatever they were fleeing from? Do they just end up going to Australia or the other countries that have legalized prostitution? Do men just go to China and other parts of Asia instead of the US based massage parlors?
I'll hang up and listen.
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Dezbelief
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
The fact that women are frightened in their home countries is a reason to offer asylum for victims of violence, not a reason to legalize or intentionally overlook rape slaves.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Allowing this to continue because women would be worse off at home is the legal version of fixing your backache by hitting yourself in the foot with a hammer. “Now I don’t even feel the back!”
TripItUp
Footballguy
who said I am looking for a reason? A little presumptive on your part. I've made it pretty clear I don't support these establishments if employment is coerced or involuntary or has anything to do with minors.
I'm trying to understand the end game here, perhaps that conversation should be a different thread.
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Henry Ford
Footballguy
TripItUp
Footballguy
You had an odd response to my question, that didn't really answer my question but whatever.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Sorry, what I should have said is “Maybe. Those sound like issues that would need some attention in addition to the rape centers that need attention.”
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Also, I’m not sure how many women would say there are many circumstances that would be worse than being essentially jailed in a massage parlor and being raped 1500 times per year on seven day a week schedules.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
I think the clear, compelling case is this:
if I told you I would have you deported or your family hurt or killed if you didn’t have sex with me, that’s rape.
if I kept you locked in a building and told you to have sex with me at my whim, that’s rape.
If I did the same things and said “but not me, instead have sex with that guy and he’ll give me money for it” it’s still rape. The fact that someone else has the gun to her head doesn’t make the guy having sex with her not a rapist.
In my opinion.
bigbottom
Footballguy
I’m not sure what their home situations are and I’m sure it varies. But I can’t imagine that becoming a sex slave is a huge step up regardless.
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TripItUp
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
Elizabeth Nolan Brown, who covers sex work for Reason magazine, is skeptical about claims of sex slavery and traces similar claims from the police that have happened recently. To her, it sounds like an ordinary prostitution sting gussied up in speculation about horribleness.
http://reason.com/blog/2019/02/22/robert-krafts-prostitution-arrest-is-par
http://reason.com/blog/2019/02/22/robert-krafts-prostitution-arrest-is-par
bigbottom
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
Yeah, same here.
I don't deny the possibility of sex trafficking and slavery, but it seems like the police and the authorities are more than willing to speculate on the wrong side of things per her links. I hope she's right, though Reason certainly has a worldview that is in favor of legalized sex work, so there's that kernel of potential bias to consider.
Just figured that since Reason (Robby Soave) and K.C. Johnson nailed the fake rape claims at UVA that their skepticism is warranted. Always good to see how the truth and the investigation plays out before rushing to judgment of any of the parties involved, IMHO.
I am a total novice on this subject. But I'm not sure there is such a bright line between "ordinary prostitution at the $79 Asian Spa" and "sex slavery".
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Henry Ford
Footballguy
The average age a prostitute begins working is between 14 and 15.
Ordinary prostitution is horribleness.
rockaction
Footballguy
I don't really know, either. I'm just saying that it would be nice if there was proof of trafficking and slavery vs. ordinary prostitution. I know the $79 Asian Spa thing is getting people, but it would seem to me that a price is just a pricing issue where the means and potential compulsion are really the issue here. .
The police also seem to be implying that the "girls" are underage rather than dispensing with adequate proof of that. It seems more like an insinuation couched in language than actual fact. I think Elizabeth Nolan Brown has covered sex work extensively for Reason for years and her arguments can probably at least be considered as being rooted in experience, even if there is a definite political outlook/component to her writing.
Mister CIA
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
That's simply a declarative and a value judgment that many people and cultures haven't happened to share both now and throughout history.
Simply saying something is horrible does not make it so.
Judging by how many of these Asian massage parlors are all over the country, I think the vast majority are simply massage places with some "extras". It would be very naive and ignorant to automatically think all or most Asian massage parlors = sex slavery.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Saying adult men are having sex with 14 or 15 year old girls by paying their pimps or madames does in fact make it horrible. That’s ordinary for prostitution’s beginnings.
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Henry Ford
Footballguy
How do you think people find so many undocumented Asian immigrants who want to work in sex work?
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Yup. But in answer to your earlier question, this is how I see public perception of this.
rockaction
Footballguy
No, it does not "in fact" make it horrible. It's a declarative you're making based upon your worldview. It's an opinion.
And I doubt that it starts at 14 or 15 in most cases. That sounds dubious.
You've made up your mind about prostitution. I'll wait for the results of the investigation in this particular case before I make any sweeping judgments about the men and women involved. it's awfully popular to condemn stuff like this, but that's the easy way. There are plenty of women and men that support legalized prostitution in this country. Anybody insisting on the contrary as "fact" is simply imposing his or her morality on others.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
I believe legalized and regulated prostitution is a different scenario. This is not that.
Do you have a solid link for the 14/15 year stat?
I found this:
https://polarisproject.org/blog/2016/01/05/average-age-entry-myth
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
I know next to nothing about this industry but I can say two things.
1. I had an old co-worker that use to go Asian Massage Parlors in the suburbs of a big east coast city. He could have been lying but he says he never received nor was offered more than a handjob. And he said every woman he ever met in those were in their 40's or 50's. They damn sure weren't teenagers being held at gunpoint.
2. Prior to him educating me on any of this if I had ever decided to check one of those places out I would have had no idea what happens in there. So it's very premature to say anyone in there is a rapist who goes into one of those joints.
1. I had an old co-worker that use to go Asian Massage Parlors in the suburbs of a big east coast city. He could have been lying but he says he never received nor was offered more than a handjob. And he said every woman he ever met in those were in their 40's or 50's. They damn sure weren't teenagers being held at gunpoint.
2. Prior to him educating me on any of this if I had ever decided to check one of those places out I would have had no idea what happens in there. So it's very premature to say anyone in there is a rapist who goes into one of those joints.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
I've been to multiple massage parlors in Taiwan and China. Never been offered anything other than an actual massage.
Never been to an Asian massage parlor in the USA. I have been to massage therapy in the USA. Never been offered any "release" other than myofascia release. Oh and aromatherapy.
Never been to an Asian massage parlor in the USA. I have been to massage therapy in the USA. Never been offered any "release" other than myofascia release. Oh and aromatherapy.
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