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The Oscars Do-Over 98 and 99: Close out the 90s with Neo, The Dude and more (1 Viewer)

Best Picture of 1999

  • Fight Club

    Votes: 24 26.7%

  • The Matrix

    Votes: 19 21.1%

  • American Beauty

    Votes: 21 23.3%

  • The Insider

    Votes: 3 3.3%

  • Magnolia

    Votes: 7 7.8%

  • The Sixth Sense

    Votes: 12 13.3%

  • Being John Malkovich

    Votes: 4 4.4%
  • Total voters
    90
97 has a lot of my personal faves, but this group for 98 might be the hardest to choose from so far.  Not a clunker in the bunch. 

 
Wow, I've never seen so many films listed that I detest:

The Thin Red Line (stop with the #$%^#! voice over, please), Magnolia (longest film ever made to torture an audience), Fight Club (it still doesn't make any sense) and Being John Malkvoich (good idea, but lousy execution) to be specific. Yes, I either hated or strongly disliked all 4 of them.

Went with Saving Private Ryan and The Sixth Sense as the best. And Haley Joel Osment should have won easily for The Sixth Sense.

 
Love all of the movies in the 1998 list.  Lots of movies that could go even deeper on the list:  Pi and  Following for Aronofsky and Nolan's debuts, respectively.  Run Lola Run, Happiness, and Pleasantville are great too.  It would be have been a fun year for the movie rankings.  I certainly watch Lebowski and Rushmore more often, but had to vote for Saving Private Ryan.  

I think I would have thrown my vote for 1999 to Eyes Wide Shut if it was up there.  Instead, American Beauty.  

 
Saving Private Ryan still the best from 98.

Went Fight Club for 99. The Matrix is probably my favorite movie of the group but it's not the best movie by a long shot.

 
Not participating because we dont even get to vote for '98 Best Picture winner. Tom Stoppard's Shakespeare In Love script was brilliant, if direction & performance was a little precious and its a better movie than any of your nominees but Ryan.

The 21st century has yet to make a film i like more than the 20th century's last great one, Being John Malkovich. And Almodovar's All About My Mother is better than any of the other noms.

 
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Went with The Big Lebowski over Rushmore. Really tough decision on that. Rushmore has my favorite montage in cinema -- set to Creation's Making Time. That alone makes the movie worth watching. The Dude simply abides, and the Coens have enough political philosophy in their fingertip to carry it.  

Went with Magnolia just by virtue of it being an operatic masterpiece by PTA to his girlfriend, Fiona Apple, and his parents that had both passed, if I'm not mistaken, of cancer. Julianne Moore nails her role of wife to an older man, Cruise is overreacted but good as son. Apple's "When The Pawn Strikes..." is actually a love letter to PTA from the lyric insert, which has the initials PTA in a box. Jon Brion oversaw both score and record. He also oversaw part of Kanye's Late Registration, if you're a music nerd. But needless to say, the music is instrumental to the movie, from Aimee Mann to the more operatic elements of it.   

John C Reilly is also something to behold in the movie.  

 
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wikkidpissah said:
Not participating because we dont even get to vote for '98 Best Picture winner. Tom Stoppard's Shakespeare In Love script was brilliant, if direction & performance was a little precious and its a better movie than any of your nominees but Ryan.

The 21st century has yet to make a film i like more than the 20th century's last great one, Being John Malkovich. And Almodovar's All About My Mother is better than any of the other noms.
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Oh I’m going to add that- an oversight on my part. Also since we were talking about Weir in the other thread- what did you think of The Truman Show?

 
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I voted:

'98 - American History X

I did not see this movie for quite a while after release, because one of the bikers I used to ride with was a huge fan. He appeared to be a racist guy - from the little I knew of him, so, I assumed the movie would be pretty White Supremey. 

When I finally saw it - WHOA. I was really wrong - and, I had to apologize to the biker dude.

Being a Coen fan, I really wanted to vote - The Big Lebowski, but, I believe that it's not quite up to this level. 

Fun story: I got to meet the man who was the real life inspiration of the Dude. The Lebowski Fest was started in Louisville - and the one time I went, I hooked up with the Trude (True Dude - wikkid's word). He was quite mad - we smoked a joint together outside the bowling alley - chased it with White Russians - and then went back inside, where he would bear hug groups of 4 or 5 at a time - he was a big dude - and sing. He was not a good singer, but, he was better than me. Good times. 

'99 - Fight Club 

Making this a Norton/Norton ticket for me, I had to go FC. I understand the confusion of this movie is not appealing to some, but it is right up my alley. And, when you add in the social commentary, dark humor and in depth exploration of madness, I could not pass. I must have seen this a dozen times, and it never gets old for me. 

Being John Malkovich was runner up, for many of the same reasons I listed above, but it did not touch me as personally - great movie tho - up there with Lebowski for me. 

Great 2 years for movies that hit me home so hard., 👍

 
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I m surprised that Tony Kaye,the director of American History X, never had a career after that. 

Then I read about how he was incredibly difficult in the making of the film- going as far as insist they credit him as Humpty Dumpty in the film because he hated it so much. 

 
Andy Dufresne said:
More like Big Leblowski, amirite?

I mean, that movie sucks.
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It is an odd movie and I can see how its not for everyone. My wife also hates this movie. I like that the base idea is what would a modern Phillip Marlowe look like? It's basically The Big Sleep re-imagined with a stoner for a protagonist. 

Also, the late 90s definitely had a preoccupation with odd movies and examining reality, consciousness, etc.  

 
Voted SPR and American Beauty.

Lebowski is more rewatchable, but SPR gets the vote based solely on the technical achievements. Yeah, some of the acting was stilted, and yeah, some of the plot points were stereotypical "war movie by the numbers" fare. But so what? The plot and the acting were secondary to the directing. And Spielberg nailed it.

I could do without the heartstring-tugging scene at the end (in the cemetery), however. That moment seemed like cheesy filler that was added by executives in a boardroom after seeing negative feedback cards from an ignorant test audience.

As for the other movies of '98:

The Truman Show: great movie, but a little too "popcorn" to be an Oscar contender. Plus, I don't think that the Academy understood that it wasn't really a comedy.
American History X: too violent. No way the Academy would ever celebrate a movie like this.
Rushmore: I think it's too much of a comedy to be Oscar-worthy. And it's a little too quirky. Also, a lot of it just seems like an excuse to let Murray improvise.
The Thin Red Line: war-movie-by-the-numbers.
Shakespeare In Love: great acting and a fun, breezy plot. But ultimately forgettable. One of the least-deserved Best Picture winners in the history of the Oscars.

For '99, I think it's pretty clear that The Matrix and Fight Club split votes among the "pro action" members of the Academy, which resulted in a win by American Beauty. And I don't mind that at all. I think AB is a classic "adult drama" with superb acting by everyone involved.

The Matrix has certainly been a bigger influence on moviemaking over the past 20 years. But movies with lots of action and a confusing plot just aren't going to win the Best Picture Oscar.

As for the other movies of '99:

Magnolia & Being John Malkovich: too weird.
Sixth Sense: the twist ending makes you want to watch it a 2nd time, after which you realize that it's actually not that great of a movie.
The Insider: it's the kind of story that plays better as a documentary. All of the drama and the tension and the climax felt fake and manufactured.

 
wikkidpissah said:
and wrong. Fight Club is a great chance to read Gen X/Y's psychological mail and little more
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I know it wasn't one of your mentions, but I went with The Insider for 99. It somehow made the gross corruption of the tobacco industry (and the t.v. news industry to some extent) compelling drama, and I find it engrossing, even with Al Pacino being Al Pacino. It might be Russel Crowe's best role as well. Plus, sometimes when my inner self critic goes haywire on me (which is painfully often) the line "ever look at another woman's ####?" gives me some perspective about going too far in the direction of putting my behavior "under the microscope." 

Had to go with Lebowski for 98 - in the end movies are entertainment, and I find this one to be perfect entertainment, while it may not be as profound as some of the other competitors.

 
wikkidpissah said:
and wrong. Fight Club is a great chance to read Gen X/Y's psychological mail and little more
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Ooooo - me must disagree, birdy. While I do give lotsa weight to it because of my own own psycho-mail-man (insomnia, delusions, confabulations, distrust of mainstream society, etc.), I believe that the movie is objectively good on many other levels.

The line - "see what real suffering is like" - from the doc, irt insomnia - is a nice encapsulation of the misunderstanding many so-called professionals have regarding what they are supposed to be experts in - simply because they have never experienced it themselves - at least to the degree that some patients have. And, its not really the docs fault - just like I can't fathom what it's like to treat a weirdo.

As far as mechanics go, the "reveal" is good, imo, and the fight scenes are honest - at least more so than many other movies - it is really ugly.

Helena Bonham Carter rocks in this. As does Pitt - but Norton is the man, imo.

Anyways - not mean'n to debate - respect you opinion - but disagree and just had to RAGE@!@@@@!!!

✌️

 
Ilov80s said:
Oh I’m going to add that- an oversight on my part. Also since we were talking about Weir in the other thread- what did you think of The Truman Show?
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Not as good as i hoped. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs and the writing fell juuuust a little short on that account and Carrey (who's right up there w Williams & Murray for me comedically) couldn't de-cartoon enough when he needed to. I'm very hard on movies that come real close to being masterpieces and fall short.

 
Man of Constant Sorrow said:
Ooooo - me must disagree, birdy.

✌️
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Wonderfully conceived & executed, but there's more wish-fulfillment in Fight Club than in Sex & the City 1 AND 2

Gr00vus said:
I know it wasn't one of your mentions, but I went with The Insider for 99.
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Great old-fashioned story-telling worthy of 70s films but the casting never worked for me. Any fan of journalism knows Lowell Bergman too well to accept Pacino's pachyderm footprint (Albert Brooks would have been perfect) and Chris Plummer was too wisened as Wallace. The greatest broadcaster of em all had a lot more sass than that, for good or ill.

 
[scooter] said:
Voted SPR and American Beauty.

Lebowski is more rewatchable, but SPR gets the vote based solely on the technical achievements. Yeah, some of the acting was stilted, and yeah, some of the plot points were stereotypical "war movie by the numbers" fare. But so what? The plot and the acting were secondary to the directing. And Spielberg nailed it.

I could do without the heartstring-tugging scene at the end (in the cemetery), however. That moment seemed like cheesy filler that was added by executives in a boardroom after seeing negative feedback cards from an ignorant test audience.

As for the other movies of '98:

The Truman Show: great movie, but a little too "popcorn" to be an Oscar contender. Plus, I don't think that the Academy understood that it wasn't really a comedy.
American History X: too violent. No way the Academy would ever celebrate a movie like this.
Rushmore: I think it's too much of a comedy to be Oscar-worthy. And it's a little too quirky. Also, a lot of it just seems like an excuse to let Murray improvise.
The Thin Red Line: war-movie-by-the-numbers.
Shakespeare In Love: great acting and a fun, breezy plot. But ultimately forgettable. One of the least-deserved Best Picture winners in the history of the Oscars.

For '99, I think it's pretty clear that The Matrix and Fight Club split votes among the "pro action" members of the Academy, which resulted in a win by American Beauty. And I don't mind that at all. I think AB is a classic "adult drama" with superb acting by everyone involved.

The Matrix has certainly been a bigger influence on moviemaking over the past 20 years. But movies with lots of action and a confusing plot just aren't going to win the Best Picture Oscar.

As for the other movies of '99:

Magnolia & Being John Malkovich: too weird.
Sixth Sense: the twist ending makes you want to watch it a 2nd time, after which you realize that it's actually not that great of a movie.
The Insider: it's the kind of story that plays better as a documentary. All of the drama and the tension and the climax felt fake and manufactured.
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I think there is a precedent for popcorn films, weird comedies and violent films being honor by the Academy. 

Popcorn: Forrest Gump and You Can't Take It With You

Weird Comedies: Annie Hall and Tom Jones

Violent Films: Silence of the Lambs and Deer Hunter

 
Ilov80s said:
I think there is a precedent for popcorn films, weird comedies and violent films being honor by the Academy. 

Popcorn: Forrest Gump and You Can't Take It With You

Weird Comedies: Annie Hall and Tom Jones

Violent Films: Silence of the Lambs and Deer Hunter
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There is a precedent to a certain degree.

But for a popcorn flick to sway the academy, I think it needs to be an uplifting epic like "Forrest Gump". And "The Truman Show" just wasn't epic enough (let alone uplifting). Plus, "The Truman Show" was critical of the Hollywood machine, which is a no-no.

"Annie Hall" was weird, but it was also a Woody Allen movie.

 
I haven't see Fight Club in probably 15 years. I wonder how it would look now given the internet 4chan meme INCEL developments of our current time. It certainly changed how I view Taxi Driver. 

 
[scooter] said:
Sixth Sense: the twist ending makes you want to watch it a 2nd time, after which you realize that it's actually not that great of a movie.
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I also wanted to add that once you watch it a 2nd time, you realize that the twist wasn't very well disguised, which just makes you angry at Shyamalan for being lazy, and angry at yourself for not figuring it out right away.

 
Ilov80s said:
I haven't see Fight Club in probably 15 years. I wonder how it would look now given the internet 4chan meme INCEL developments of our current time. It certainly changed how I view Taxi Driver. 
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I don't know what this means, but Fight Club is still awesome.

It really was a life altering movie for me. I really took the theme of "define your own life, don't let others do it" to heart and I've been much happier since.

 
[scooter] said:
There is a precedent to a certain degree.

But for a popcorn flick to sway the academy, I think it needs to be an uplifting epic like "Forrest Gump". And "The Truman Show" just wasn't epic enough (let alone uplifting). Plus, "The Truman Show" was critical of the Hollywood machine, which is a no-no.

"Annie Hall" was weird, but it was also a Woody Allen movie.
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Fair criticism of The Truman Show. Annie is a Woody Allen movie like Rushmore is a Wes Anderson movie. Both are directors that get lots of critical love and have a very distinct style. However, when Annie Hall came out, it was a major step forward for Allen. His previous movies were far more slapstick and parody. Also Annie Hall was really unusual even for any Woody Allen film with all the breaking of the 4th wall, jumping around time, etc. 

 
wikkidpissah said:
Fight Club is the Skymall magazine you want after watching a ReservoirDogs/PulpFiction double-feature on a plane
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Fight club was actually a much more interesting movie to me before the "big reveal." It rendered the whole thing ridiculous, and not in any good way.

 
[scooter] said:
I also wanted to add that once you watch it a 2nd time, you realize that the twist wasn't very well disguised, which just makes you angry at Shyamalan for being lazy, and angry at yourself for not figuring it out right away.
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I think that is what actually makes it work so well. To me,  a twist is good when all the clues were right in front of the audience and it still catches everyone off guard. 

 
Ilov80s said:
I haven't see Fight Club in probably 15 years. I wonder how it would look now given the internet 4chan meme INCEL developments of our current time. It certainly changed how I view Taxi Driver. 
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That's  great point.

The way I resolve it in my mind, is similar to how wikkid pointed out the "wish fulfillment" aspect of FC. Being that the majority of the movie is a delusion (or partial delusion - at least) - I never really took the "terrorist" aspect of it heavily.

Taxi Driver - on the other hand - seemed to make a hero (of sorts) outta Travis Bickle. 

Perhaps I'm readin' it wrong, but I digested these two films very differently.

And - to be honest - I am not a big fan of Taxi Driver - it pushes too many of my own personal dislike buttons - so to speak - but I recognize it quality.

 
Gr00vus said:
Fight club was actually a much more interesting movie to me before the "big reveal." It rendered the whole thing ridiculous, and not in any good way.
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Have you ever suffered from delusions?

Seriously...no snark - and no need to answer - I don't wanna pry.

Imo, it was ridiculous - but not unbelievable.

Of course - the part about shooting himself to kill Tyler IS unbelievable, but I never took that to be literal.

 
Man of Constant Sorrow said:
That's  great point.

The way I resolve it in my mind, is similar to how wikkid pointed out the "wish fulfillment" aspect of FC. Being that the majority of the movie is a delusion (or partial delusion - at least) - I never really took the "terrorist" aspect of it heavily.

Taxi Driver - on the other hand - seemed to make a hero (of sorts) outta Travis Bickle. 

Perhaps I'm readin' it wrong, but I digested these two films very differently.

And - to be honest - I am not a big fan of Taxi Driver - it pushes too many of my own personal dislike buttons - so to speak - but I recognize it quality.
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I liked Taxi Driver a lot more when I was younger. Now, it's scary as hell. I have heard some analysis that Taxi Driver might also be a fantasy.  Does he really go crazy and shoot up the brothel or was just some kind of fantasy life in his head? There is some decent evidence that it is possible. The biggest being that he doesn't go to jail and seems to be just doing fine driving his cab again at the end. 

With Fight Club, it's not even just the final act of terrorism but just a group of guys who cut themselves off from mainstream society because they are smarter than everyone else. It reminds of 4chan users who hangout on some underground internet sites and create little bits of havoc in the world (stealing celebrity nudes, QAnon, hacking websites, etc). 

 
Man of Constant Sorrow said:
Have you ever suffered from delusions?

Seriously...no snark - and no need to answer - I don't wanna pry.

Imo, it was ridiculous - but not unbelievable.

Of course - the part about shooting himself to kill Tyler IS unbelievable, but I never took that to be literal.
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Not that I'm aware of.

The events of the movie, viewed through the lens we are exposed to at the end are mostly ridiculous. Particularly the inception of the fight club itself.

 
On top of the recurring themes of consciousness and reality, 90s movies also seemed really big on having a major plot twist. 

 
Ilov80s said:
On top of the recurring themes of consciousness and reality, 90s movies also seemed really big on having a major plot twist. 
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Along these lines, Cronenberg's eXistenZ should get more recognition.

Ilov80s said:
Also I must be the only on here who thinks Saving Private Ryan is a bit overrated.
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No, I agree with you. As great as the beach invasion is, I actually think it lacks in scale. The middle is a lot of Spielberg schmaltz. The final battle in the French town is awesome though.

 
Ilov80s said:
I liked Taxi Driver a lot more when I was younger. Now, it's scary as hell. I have heard some analysis that Taxi Driver might also be a fantasy.  Does he really go crazy and shoot up the brothel or was just some kind of fantasy life in his head? There is some decent evidence that it is possible. The biggest being that he doesn't go to jail and seems to be just doing fine driving his cab again at the end. 

With Fight Club, it's not even just the final act of terrorism but just a group of guys who cut themselves off from mainstream society because they are smarter than everyone else. It reminds of 4chan users who hangout on some underground internet sites and create little bits of havoc in the world (stealing celebrity nudes, QAnon, hacking websites, etc). 
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Got ya.

I'm not familiar with the 4chan (etc.) stuff - so, that connection never hit my radar.

Very interestin points about TD - I may do some deeper thinkin on that - thnx.

 
Gr00vus said:
Not that I'm aware of.

The events of the movie, viewed through the lens we are exposed to at the end are mostly ridiculous. Particularly the inception of the fight club itself.
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I won't argue with that - good point.

Perhaps, my contrarian position comes from the fact that I really viewed it as metaphor. I never really took much in the movie literally.

And - considering my own personal connections, I most likely read many things into it, that were not intentionally placed there by the makers.

Thnx, G.

 
I don't find the inception of the fight club to be all that different from buying into other forms of self-destruction.

I mean, people see people smoking cigarettes or shooting up heroin and say, "Hey, is like to try that!"

Sure starting a fight with yourself is weird, but it would attract some people who are just THAT bored/frustrated with their lives.

 
Andy Dufresne said:
Along these lines, Cronenberg's eXistenZ should get more recognition.

No, I agree with you. As great as the beach invasion is, I actually think it lacks in scale. The middle is a lot of Spielberg schmaltz. The final battle in the French town is awesome though.
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eXistenZ is a severely underrated movie.

As for SPR - I actually love the middle of it more than the battle scenes.  The battle scenes were going to be huge and epic and they were great and worth every minute spent watching them.  But the middle was, to me, very entertaining in its realness. These were regular men asked to do something dangerously irregular.  The death of the medic was one of the more powerful deaths of that type in movies for me.  It was extremely honest.  

 
Ilov80s said:
I liked Taxi Driver a lot more when I was younger. Now, it's scary as hell. I have heard some analysis that Taxi Driver might also be a fantasy.  Does he really go crazy and shoot up the brothel or was just some kind of fantasy life in his head? There is some decent evidence that it is possible. The biggest being that he doesn't go to jail and seems to be just doing fine driving his cab again at the end. 
Click to expand...
Taxi Driver was very much a distillation and reaction to the NYC of its time, too. It may well have become a template for identity killers, but that wasn't its entire intention.

The New York City whose future President Ford refused to guarantee was a great place to find out if you could cut the mustard, but you pretty much had to wear a butcher's apron to live there. Crims were hacking off the forearms of Broadway patrons who strayed too far down 42nd St with machetes cuz it gave more efficient access to jewelry; when a cornerstone fell out of a Upper West Side building, killing a Columbia co-ed, it spawned a fad of people throwing cinder blocks down on pedestrians from their apt windows; i was re-routed from the Spring St subway station stairwell because it contained a body shot 4 times with a bow & arrow. One of my writing partners lived across from Tompkins Sq Park and it was like a frikkin video game going down there. "It's like a jungle sometimes, it makes me wonder how i keep from goin' under" was a whistle in a graveyard, man, and i was a white guy in Soho. Escape From New York was a reality show. That all was a factor - Taxi Driver found the Travis Bickle in all of us pushed to that extremity.

 
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wikkidpissah said:
Taxi Driver was very much a distillation and reaction to the NYC of its time, too. It may well have become a template for identity killers, but that wasn't its entire intention.

The New York City whose future President Ford refused to guarantee was a great place to find out if you could cut the mustard, but you pretty much had to wear a butcher's apron to live there. Crims were hacking off the forearms of Broadway patrons who strayed too far down 42nd St with machetes cuz it gave more efficient access to jewelry; when a cornerstone fell out of a Upper West Side building, killing a Columbia co-ed, it spawned a fad of people throwing cinder blocks down on pedestrians from their apt windows; i was re-routed from the Spring St subway station stairwell because it contained a body shot 4 times with a bow & arrow. One of my writing partners lived across from Tompkins Sq Park and it was like a frikkin video game going down there. "It's like a jungle sometimes, it makes me wonder how i keep from goin' under" was a whistle in a graveyard, man, and i was a white guy in Soho. Escape From New York was a reality show. That all was a factor - it found the Travis Bickle in all of us
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Yep, NY in the 70s seemed like a real dump but it made for a fascinating setting for so many movies. I find it interesting how the message and perception of a piece of art can bend as the world is reshaped over time. When released (and when I first watched it), TD felt a bit like the Michael Douglas movie Falling Down. We have an angry anti-hero acting very badly but a small part of us gets satisfaction from it because we too are sick of crime, corruption or the constraints of modern life. Looking back now from a perspective where we have seen so many real life Travis Bickle's, I hope a lot more people feel totally repulsed by it than any sense of vindication. 

 
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