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Andrew Yang and Driverless Trucks - Not a Fan

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Apologies if Honda

https://www.axios.com/andrew-yang-automation-american-trucking-industry-018d0ad7-951d-4c59-9f16-2e9cf67b789e.html

Quote

 

Andrew Yang promises to protect American trucking industry from automation

2020 presidential candidate Andrew Yang is using his campaign to warn America about the potentially damaging impact automation could have on the economy — and he's putting an emphasis on truck drivers.

What he's saying: "What are the truck drivers going to do when the robot trucks come and start driving themselves?” Yang asked at a recent rural issues forum in Stuart, Iowa. Yang says the country needs a plan to manage the loss of these jobs, describing truck driving as the "most common job in 29 states."

The California-based candidate says that more auto companies are investing in autonomous vehicle technology, and that includes those in the trucking industry. Yang claims that if the country doesn't work to ease the transition to self-driving vehicles, at least 3 million truck drivers could lose their jobs.

"All you need is self-driving cars to destabilize society ... That one innovation will be enough to create riots in the street. And we’re about to do the same thing to retail workers, call center workers, fast-food workers, insurance companies, accounting firms.”

— Andrew Yang told the New York Times

Yang is proposing a universal basic income plan, which he brands as the "Freedom Dividend," to help offset the job loss caused by automation. His plan would give $1,000 each month to every U.S. adult up to age 64, funded in part by a 10% "value added tax" on technology companies such as Amazon, Google and Facebook.

 

 

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More veiled socialism from the left.   

 

This lunatic would have opposed telephone lines as they put the pony express out of business. 

 

How does this clown get airtime?

Edited by TripItUp

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I don't read that quote as "Driverless trucks are bad."  I read it as "Driverless trucks will have bad effects on truck-drivers, and we should help mitigate those effects."

Edit: On reflection, maybe I'm misreading Yang.  That proposed tax on Amazon, Google, and Facebook (?) comes off as punitive just for the sake of being punitive, so maybe he really is opposed to automation.

Edited by IvanKaramazov
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15 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

More veiled socialism from the left.   

 

This lunatic would have opposed telephone lines as they put the pony express out of business. 

 

How does this clown get airtime?

Like farm subsidies and propping up the coal industry?  Seem like terrible ideas too.

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2 minutes ago, -fish- said:

Like farm subsidies and propping up the coal industry?  Seem like terrible ideas too.

Farm subsidies are a very complex issue as there are national security issues at hand.  Coal subsidies are ridiculous.

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4 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

I don't read that quote as "Driverless trucks are bad."  I read it as "Driverless trucks will have bad effects on truck-drivers, and we should help mitigate those effects."

Yeah, the headline doesn’t match what’s said in the body of the article.

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I wish they’d make it tougher for humans to get a CDL and improve the safety on trucks. Did you guys see about the runaway truck accident a couple of weeks ago near Denver? Hispanic guy they think wasn’t trained well on mountains and maybe could not read the sign for runaway truck ramp. 

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Slightly off topic but I live in a place with some sketchy roads weaving through crazy topography where the consequences of a bad move are severe  We're a long way from driverless here as are many places in this country. Driverless is a partial solution to be implemented (I hope) only when and where it makes sense.

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48 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

More veiled socialism from the left.   

 

This lunatic would have opposed telephone lines as they put the pony express out of business. 

 

How does this clown get airtime?

Telegraph.  

The first transcontinental telephone line was completed like 50 years after the Pony Express.

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The reason he is saying that about Amazon, Google, etc. is that in the long run those companies and other high tech industries/manufacturers will displace millions of workers as they won't need them or will replace them. Then you tax the machine as it were to raise the revenue.

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1 hour ago, TripItUp said:

More veiled socialism from the left.   

 

This lunatic would have opposed telephone lines as they put the pony express out of business. 

 

How does this clown get airtime?

While I won’t defend Yang’s idea here, I have to say the Pony Express comparison doesn’t work. The Pony Express only existed for about 16 months and had about a 100 riders- most of them teenagers. It wasn’t replaced by telephones but by telegraph. The telegraph wasn’t new, it was just was connecting the Eastern network to a new Western network. The Pony Express was never a financial success and likely was never going to be. 

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It’s the same principle as President Trump’s tariffs. You’re trying to protect the old industries.  Even if that is your intent, it’s impossible to do anything but slow things down. 

That being said, there are 3.5 million truck drivers in this country. We need to figure something out. Some of Yang’s other ideas (regarding BIG) are better. 

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4 minutes ago, timschochet said:

It’s the same principle as President Trump’s tariffs. You’re trying to protect the old industries.  Even if that is your intent, it’s impossible to do anything but slow things down. 

That being said, there are 3.5 million truck drivers in this country. We need to figure something out. Some of Yang’s other ideas (regarding BIG) are better. 

Truck driving might be one of the few careers that middle aged guys phased out by technology might be able to get into right now. 

It will take awhile for driverless to happen, I think.

 

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28 minutes ago, NREC34 said:

Truck driving might be one of the few careers that middle aged guys phased out by technology might be able to get into right now. 

It will take awhile for driverless to happen, I think.

 

You already have a driver in one truck caravaning multiple driverless trucks behind him. You already have trucks running a full route with a human in the cab monitoring but not driving. And the Trump DOT made it clear in a 70 page document last year they intend to let the industry run with it without much oversight. This is a few years out not decades. In fact you'll probably get autonomous trucks before you get the same in cars  

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Just now, NCCommish said:

You already have a driver in one truck caravaning multiple driverless trucks behind him. You already have trucks running a full route with a human in the cab monitoring but not driving. And the Trump DOT made it clear in a 70 page document last year they intend to let the industry run with it without much oversight. This is a few years out not decades. In fact you'll probably get autonomous trucks before you get the same in cars  

Yeah, driverless vehicles already exist right now.  I would not want to be a 46 year-old truck driver.

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1 minute ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Yeah, driverless vehicles already exist right now.  I would not want to be a 46 year-old truck driver.

And those guys know it's coming but where do they go?

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Obviously the jobs wouldn’t disappear over night but there are 3.5 million truck drivers. That represents about 2.7% of the full time American jobs so it would be a significant blow.

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China already has a port that’s fully automated. Automated trucks, cranes, etc. 

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While there will likely be no agreeing on stuff like this, I am glad Yang is at least bringing these topics up for discussion. Nobody else is talking about what the hell are we gonna do when milkik snof jobs disappear because of ever improving automation. 

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7 minutes ago, the moops said:

While there will likely be no agreeing on stuff like this, I am glad Yang is at least bringing these topics up for discussion. Nobody else is talking about what the hell are we gonna do when milkik snof jobs disappear because of ever improving automation. 

Milkik Snof Jobs sounds like a Star Wars character lol

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35 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

This is one of the least likely industries for anybody alive to get screwed by automation. 

As I pointed out it is already happening. Even if it is just the caravans that is one driver doing the job of 6. And that is hardly where it will stop. 

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3 hours ago, TripItUp said:

More veiled socialism from the left.   

 

This lunatic would have opposed telephone lines as they put the pony express out of business. 

 

How does this clown get airtime?

Can you give me your definition of socialism.  When you are done typing, look it up on google.

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1 minute ago, IC FBGCav said:

Can you give me your definition of socialism.  When you are done typing, look it up on google.

sure, as soon as you are finished with the petty condescension.

Edited by TripItUp

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3 hours ago, TripItUp said:

More veiled socialism from the left.   

 

This lunatic would have opposed telephone lines as they put the pony express out of business. 

 

How does this clown get airtime?

Nice

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12 minutes ago, IC FBGCav said:

You don't like your own style?

do you understand the difference?

I called the politician a clown...you are directly insulting me.

Let's try to follow the forum rules here.

 

Edited by TripItUp

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2 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

do you understand the difference?

 

Socialism...tell me about it.  You were bad at coc and here too.

Edited by IC FBGCav

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4 hours ago, Mister CIA said:

We have clowns and unicorns.  Time to shut the discussion down, Joe.

Lunatic too.

This exactly the type of problem that Basic Income Guarantee is meant to solve in an efficient way.  Kudos to Yang.

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2 hours ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Yeah, driverless vehicles already exist right now.  I would not want to be a 46 year-old truck driver.

IK, I’d be interested in hearing the conservative solution as society becomes extremely more efficient and the need for labor is greatly diminished.  I’m sure you agree that a far more efficient and automated society is a good thing, but with that obviously comes an increased need for a larger social net.  Hopefully the IK’s of the conservative movement re-emerge at some point so we can find practical solutions to the good problems of the next few generations.  

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1 hour ago, NCCommish said:

As I pointed out it is already happening. Even if it is just the caravans that is one driver doing the job of 6. And that is hardly where it will stop. 

They are nowhere near having self driving semis in urban areas. We are seeing driverless trucks in very specific low traffic situations. 

Driver is pretty much the hardest job in the country to fill right now and there are pretty much no young drivers. The bulk of the current driver force will age out before the driverless trucks cause problems. The remaining small % will still be needed. 

It is literally the last profession we should be worried about AI causing an issue.

Edited by parasaurolophus
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14 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

The driver profession is currently almost a million jobs below where it wants to be. The average age of drivers is 55. 

Some drivers in the oil fields are making 6 figures I’ve heard. It’s tempting to think about doing it. There’s more to it than just driving point A to point B. I think like you said driverless trucks are just doing dedicated routes on major highways. Probably only in good weather. I say it’ll be a good while before every human driver is out of a job. Maybe never. 

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Just now, NREC34 said:

Some drivers in the oil fields are making 6 figures I’ve heard. It’s tempting to think about doing it. There’s more to it than just driving point A to point B. I think like you said driverless trucks are just doing dedicated routes on major highways. Probably only in good weather. I say it’ll be a good while before every human driver is out of a job. Maybe never. 

Think hazmat and booze. Chain of custody is so important with those products and they are labor intensive. Plenty of drivers do vendor managed inventory as well. 

 

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12 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

That’s true the robots are more into auto eroticism.

Pretty sure RW is referring to the rise of sex robots here

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11 hours ago, TripItUp said:

More veiled socialism from the left.   

 

This lunatic would have opposed telephone lines as they put the pony express out of business. 

 

How does this clown get airtime?

He’s not particularly opposed to driverless trucks, or telephone lines. He’s a smart guy who understands the economy and is preparing for its future. 

You should look into his policies. There’s a good chance you’ll think he’s neither a lunatic nor a clown. He actually makes a lot of sense, across the political spectrum. 

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9 hours ago, tommyGunZ said:

IK, I’d be interested in hearing the conservative solution as society becomes extremely more efficient and the need for labor is greatly diminished.  

I think we're going to need some type of UBI.  That's a policy solution that has a pretty eclectic ideological background -- Milton Friedman argued for a negative income tax, which is essentially a different flavor of the same thing.  

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11 hours ago, the moops said:

While there will likely be no agreeing on stuff like this, I am glad Yang is at least bringing these topics up for discussion. Nobody else is talking about what the hell are we gonna do when milkik snof jobs disappear because of ever improving automation. 

Agree with this, and while the OP is talking about truck driving Yang talks a lot about the other jobs that will be drying up due to automation a lot as well - food service, retail, etc..  A lot of entry level positions and a lot of jobs where we can't just flippantly say "well, learn to program or fix a computer".  That is a big driving point for his Freedom Dividend.  

Edited by KarmaPolice

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1 hour ago, KarmaPolice said:

Agree with this, and while the OP is talking about truck driving Yang talks a lot about the other jobs that will be drying up due to automation a lot as well - food service, retail, etc..  A lot of entry level positions and a lot of jobs where we can't just flippantly say "well, learn to program or fix a computer".  That is a big driving point for his Freedom Dividend.  

And the thing about learn to program is AI will be doing the repetitive level programming soon enough. Already is actually.  And we already have machines capable of self repair. People just don't get the scope of what is coming.

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15 hours ago, NREC34 said:

I wish they’d make it tougher for humans to get a CDL and improve the safety on trucks. Did you guys see about the runaway truck accident a couple of weeks ago near Denver? Hispanic guy they think wasn’t trained well on mountains and maybe could not read the sign for runaway truck ramp. 

My buddy is a dispatcher at a large trucking firm and had told me it is almost impossible to find drivers now.  Many truck drivers  fail the CDL test..it was so bad that someone got all the answers ftom the state of Michigan test and was selling them for 100.00 to pass the test.  This went on for years he said.

Then the other half of the problem is that half the drivers who pass the CDL fail the drug test.

 

 

Edited by Da Guru
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3 minutes ago, Da Guru said:

My buddy is a dispatcher at a large trucking firm and had told me it is almost impossible to find drivers now.  Many truck drivers  fail the CDL test..it was so bad that someone got all the answers ftom the state of Michigan test and was selling them for 100.00 to pass the test.  This went on for years he said.

Then the other half of the problem is that half the drivers who pass the CDL fail the drug test.

 

 

And this is part of what is driving the push for autonomous trucks. We need to move goods. We can't meet the demand with humans . We bring in automation. This is econ 101.

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6 minutes ago, NCCommish said:

And this is part of what is driving the push for autonomous trucks. We need to move goods. We can't meet the demand with humans . We bring in automation. This is econ 101.

I agree..and there will be people killed by driverless trucks and outrage..but then there are many people killed by trucks with drivers as well.

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23 minutes ago, Da Guru said:

I agree..and there will be people killed by driverless trucks and outrage..but then there are many people killed by trucks with drivers as well.

Undoubtedly true. But in the long run my guess is there will be less deaths per mile driven.

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12 hours ago, tommyGunZ said:

IK, I’d be interested in hearing the conservative solution as society becomes extremely more efficient and the need for labor is greatly diminished.  I’m sure you agree that a far more efficient and automated society is a good thing, but with that obviously comes an increased need for a larger social net.  Hopefully the IK’s of the conservative movement re-emerge at some point so we can find practical solutions to the good problems of the next few generations.  

 

While that's definitely true in the short term (i.e., truck and uber drivers being replaced), it may not be true in the long run. Automation will elimination jobs, but it will also create jobs. I don't know what exactly, but it seems like throughout history, this is the case.

That obviously doesn't help the truck drivers, though.

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10 hours ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

That’s true the robots are more into auto eroticism.

Unloved, under-appreciated, until now. The King Of Smack™ remains alive and well. 

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