What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Reagan to Nixon: "those monkeys from African countries....they're still uncomfortable wearing shoes" (1 Viewer)

I must have missed that episode of "All In The Family" where Archie calls Africans "monkeys" and everyone laughs.
What part of horrible are you not getting?
I was responding to the "prism of their time" portion of your quote.

You said that the horrible quote needed to be viewed through the prism of 1971. I was pointing out that people wouldn't consider Reagan's quote to be acceptable in 1971.

(I do agree people were generally more racist in 1971 than they are today, and that society would have been much more likely to tolerate Reagan's comment in 1971. But even Reagan knew that his beliefs were far outside the mainstream or else he wouldn't have concealed them in a private conversation with someone he knew was sympathetic to his beliefs.)

 
I was responding to the "prism of their time" portion of your quote.

You said that the horrible quote needed to be viewed through the prism of 1971. I was pointing out that people wouldn't consider Reagan's quote to be acceptable in 1971.

(I do agree people were generally more racist in 1971 than they are today, and that society would have been much more likely to tolerate Reagan's comment in 1971. But even Reagan knew that his beliefs were far outside the mainstream or else he wouldn't have concealed them in a private conversation with someone he knew was sympathetic to his beliefs.)
And I was saying that because of the larger discussion about whether Reagan (and people like my parents) can be good people.  I’m not saying his comment isn’t horrible now or wasn’t horrible then - what I’m saying is you need some context.  I imagine all us that are a little older have made homophobic jokes in the past.  Jokes that would be seen as wrong at the time and horrible now.  I also assume most of us are good people who would no longer do that.  Like I said to Conns, somebody may look at his avatar and call him a racist and a bad person.  And he’s not either of those things.

 
I was responding to the "prism of their time" portion of your quote.

You said that the horrible quote needed to be viewed through the prism of 1971. I was pointing out that people wouldn't consider Reagan's quote to be acceptable in 1971.

(I do agree people were generally more racist in 1971 than they are today, and that society would have been much more likely to tolerate Reagan's comment in 1971. But even Reagan knew that his beliefs were far outside the mainstream or else he wouldn't have concealed them in a private conversation with someone he knew was sympathetic to his beliefs.)
And I was saying that because of the larger discussion about whether Reagan (and people like my parents) can be good people.  I’m not saying his comment isn’t horrible now or wasn’t horrible then - what I’m saying is you need some context.  I imagine all us that are a little older have made homophobic jokes in the past.  Jokes that would be seen as wrong at the time and horrible now.  I also assume most of us are good people who would no longer do that.  Like I said to Conns, somebody may look at his avatar and call him a racist and a bad person.  And he’s not either of those things.
There is a difference between telling a joke and having a belief.

Reagan wasn't telling a joke. He was expressing racist beliefs to a likeminded person.

I do think it's possible for someone to be a generally "good person" while simultaneously holding a racist belief. But just as we need to look at his quote through the prism of of the time, we must now also look at his policies through the prism of that quote.

 
Right, that’s why I said they are horrible.
Why try to reason with them?  You’ve been exceptionally fair in recognizing that Reagan’s statement was undeniably racist and there is no way to defend it or suggest that it wasn’t racially disparaging. 

At the same time you’ve done what any reasonable person would and acknowledge that humans are complicated creatures that cannot be defined by one thing they did or one thing they said.  They could be a nice person one day, a mean person the next day.  A giving person to one group, a selfish person to another group.  A racially sensitive person one moment and a racially insensitive person the next.

That’s why is was shocking to me in this thread to see someone label their family and friends as “bad people” for simply supporting politicians they deem racist.  People are far more complicated than that, and if you found fit to deem them your friend in the first place then they likely aren’t bad people in total.

But the exercise being carried out in this thread isn’t really about trying to understand the complexity of people or even about condemning bad statements.  It’s about trying to tear down a historical figure that some people deem a political opponent, and by extension smear the people who supported that figure or continue to do so.  

A thread trying to re-evaluate a historical figure based on new found evidence which significantly damages their reputation just as easily could have been started last month for Martin Luther King, Jr.  An argument could certainly be made that those revelations could be viewed as damaging or more damaging than the Reagan revelation.  We didn’t see that thread, though.  Why?  Is it maybe because re-evaluating that MLK didn’t serve the purpose of forwarding the political agenda being carried out by re-evaluating Reagan?

 
Why try to reason with them?  You’ve been exceptionally fair in recognizing that Reagan’s statement was undeniably racist and there is no way to defend it or suggest that it wasn’t racially disparaging. 

At the same time you’ve done what any reasonable person would and acknowledge that humans are complicated creatures that cannot be defined by one thing they did or one thing they said.  They could be a nice person one day, a mean person the next day.  A giving person to one group, a selfish person to another group.  A racially sensitive person one moment and a racially insensitive person the next.

That’s why is was shocking to me in this thread to see someone label their family and friends as “bad people” for simply supporting politicians they deem racist.  People are far more complicated than that, and if you found fit to deem them your friend in the first place then they likely aren’t bad people in total.

But the exercise being carried out in this thread isn’t really about trying to understand the complexity of people or even about condemning bad statements.  It’s about trying to tear down a historical figure that some people deem a political opponent, and by extension smear the people who supported that figure or continue to do so.  

A thread trying to re-evaluate a historical figure based on new found evidence which significantly damages their reputation just as easily could have been started last month for Martin Luther King, Jr.  An argument could certainly be made that those revelations could be viewed as damaging or more damaging than the Reagan revelation.  We didn’t see that thread, though.  Why?  Is it maybe because re-evaluating that MLK didn’t serve the purpose of forwarding the political agenda being carried out by re-evaluating Reagan?
Excellent post. Too much nuance -- you might be a smart version of John Kerry. That said, there was a thread or a mention of MLK's issues last month here. I think I commented on it.  

 
[scooter] said:
There is a difference between telling a joke and having a belief.

Reagan wasn't telling a joke. He was expressing racist beliefs to a likeminded person.

I do think it's possible for someone to be a generally "good person" while simultaneously holding a racist belief. But just as we need to look at his quote through the prism of of the time, we must now also look at his policies through the prism of that quote.
I disagree.  It was a joke.  Ok, not the kind of joke that had a punch-line, but more about absurd exaggeration.  

 
Growing up in California, I was raised to respect Reagan even though my dad didn't necessarily agree with his politics (I'm an only child of a single parent). I'd never really examined that view I just sort of had it.

Another symptom of growing up in California was being raised in diverse communities; race and racism, while not exactly invisible, never seemed as pressing an issue as it might have been elsewhere. This thread has given me a much better appreciation of the depth and breadth of the racism in this country and its ties to politics which continue to this day.

We all know why Reagan gave his first speech as a candidate for President in Philadelphia, Mississippi. With a population of a little over 5,000 and whose only claim to fame was being the site where 3 civil rights activists were murdered by the Klan in 1964, I'm sure Reagan's speech about "states' rights" was a big hit.

It's stomach-turning.

The picture of America that I was taught in school - a melting pot of diversity which welcomes those from around the world seeking a better life - appears to have been an entirely made-up fiction. I'd been assuming that Trump was an anomaly, but it turns out he has much more in common with "traditional American values" than I do. I'm not exactly sure how I feel anymore, but it's definitely not patriotic and I'm ashamed at my naivete in believing I lived somewhere exceptional. 

America! Love it or leave it!

That might not be such a bad idea after all.
Exceptional posting.

This is what learning and history is for. Reexamining our (innate? Inherited? instinctive?) beliefs and moving people and emotions. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
The Amrica-bashing on this forum never ceases to amaze me.  Hate the flag.  Hate the anthem.  Hate the military.  Hate our history.  Hate our people.  

 
Bravo! Yes, that's it!

Once again, I applaud your ability to get right to the heart of the issue! I, for one, am not at all appalled by your comprehension and condescension abilities.

Welcome back to the forum you said was too full of garbage and personal insults to ever return to and thank you 10,000 times for gracing us with your eloquent and thought-provoking opinions once more.

I once was lost but now am found. USA! USA!
Well maybe you should paint a more honest picture then.  It was not his first speech of his campaign.  It was on August 3, 1980, when Reagan announced in November of 1979.  He was a guest of Trent Lott's, which is why the location was picked.  It was not a speech about state's rights.  States Rights was talked about a total of two lines in a 17-minute speech.  You want to crap all over Reagan by distorting the facts to fit your narrative.  Bravo to this forum, I am sure your post will be well liked.  

 
Last edited by a moderator:
The Amrica-bashing on this forum never ceases to amaze me.  Hate the flag.  Hate the anthem.  Hate the military.  Hate our history.  Hate our people.  
Who hates the flag?

Though, the point of the anthem I dont think people hate, but some have voiced a for the actual tune for years...where is the hate?

Who hates the military?

Or our history? (Though some of it is worthy of hate)

Or the people?

Thats a massive generalization and accusation you put out there.  And its pretty disgusting.

 
People spent eight years call GW Bush 'chimp', and now are appalled by one monkey reference.  
Do you understand the difference in the context?  I didn't like the bush reference, but it was based on his appearance.  The other was used as a racial slur.

 
Do you understand the difference in the context?  I didn't like the bush reference, but it was based on his appearance.  The other was used as a racial slur.


Both are bad,  and I really do not see that much difference.  Reagan made the comment based on how they were jumping around and acting.  Not all that much different than basing it on appearance.  I understand the historical context makes it more offensive, but until people realize ALL people deserve the SAME respect we are not going to get anywhere.  We need to end all this 'people of color' non-sense and having different rules and different standards based on skin color.  All people need to be treated equally, period.        

 
Democrats were generally more racist than Republicans during the Civil War era and the period that followed. Therefore, Trump is not a racist.

I can buy that reasoning.
My father was an Ob.Gyn, there4fore it is only natural that I too have an exam table with stirrups and also a speculum in my office, though I am an attorney.  This is fun, someone else do one.  Maurile just created a great game.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Both are bad,  and I really do not see that much difference.  Reagan made the comment based on how they were jumping around and acting.  Not all that much different than basing it on appearance.  I understand the historical context makes it more offensive, but until people realize ALL people deserve the SAME respect we are not going to get anywhere.  We need to end all this 'people of color' non-sense and having different rules and different standards based on skin color.  All people need to be treated equally, period.        
Stop with the both are bad.  One is a childish quip about a person's big ears and appearance...the other is a racial slur.  To not see a difference seems really really strange.

Its not nonsense man...there is a history of slurs and treatment of people of color that doesn't just go away.  And its not a different standard...racial slurs about any race are not ok.

 
Stop with the both are bad.  One is a childish quip about a person's big ears and appearance...the other is a racial slur.  To not see a difference seems really really strange.

Its not nonsense man...there is a history of slurs and treatment of people of color that doesn't just go away.  And its not a different standard...racial slurs about any race are not ok.
Why would I stop it?  I absolutely believe the white-guilt/hate constantly spewed by many on the left is a huge issue and only serves to feed the racial strife which exists in this country.   If you think it is OK to dehumanize and belittle people just because they are not 'people of color' you are wrong.  

 
Why would I stop it?  I absolutely believe the white-guilt/hate constantly spewed by many on the left is a huge issue and only serves to feed the racial strife which exists in this country.   If you think it is OK to dehumanize and belittle people just because they are not 'people of color' you are wrong.  
Because it isn't a both sides thing Jon.

Racism is far different than being a child making a goofy comment.

It isn't white guilt or hate (other than a hate of racism).  And if feeling bad about racists being called out feeds more racists...thats on them.  Its crap.

Who said its ok to belittle people just because they aren't people of color?  Nobody said this.  I said quite clearly racial slurs of any kind are wrong.  It doesn't matter what color they come from or who they are directed at.

 
Because it isn't a both sides thing Jon.

Racism is far different than being a child making a goofy comment.

It isn't white guilt or hate (other than a hate of racism).  And if feeling bad about racists being called out feeds more racists...thats on them.  Its crap.

Who said its ok to belittle people just because they aren't people of color?  Nobody said this.  I said quite clearly racial slurs of any kind are wrong.  It doesn't matter what color they come from or who they are directed at.
Some people make goofy comments about someone who happens to be of another race without thinking it through.  Considering this was a one-time or at least a extremely rare instance of Reagan saying something like this,  it was more of a thoughtless slip with little thought about race.  It could have just as easily been about French men.  

 
Some people make goofy comments about someone who happens to be of another race without thinking it through.  Considering this was a one-time or at least a extremely rare instance of Reagan saying something like this,  it was more of a thoughtless slip with little thought about race.  It could have just as easily been about French men.  
There is a difference again between a goofy comment and a racial slur.  I am not even talking about Reagan or bashing him.  Just saying what a huge difference there is between that and what people called W.

Also...go back and please have a look at the post about all the things you claim the board hates and answer the questions.

 
There is a difference again between a goofy comment and a racial slur.  I am not even talking about Reagan or bashing him.  Just saying what a huge difference there is between that and what people called W.

Also...go back and please have a look at the post about all the things you claim the board hates and answer the questions.
I would love to answer you question, but this board is unsearchable and half the content gets deleted over time.  But I have had disccusions on all those topics over the years.

 
The Amrica-bashing on this forum never ceases to amaze me.  Hate the flag.  Hate the anthem.  Hate the military.  Hate our history.  Hate our people.  
Who hates the flag?

Though, the point of the anthem I dont think people hate, but some have voiced a for the actual tune for years...where is the hate?

Who hates the military?

Or our history? (Though some of it is worthy of hate)

Or the people?

Thats a massive generalization and accusation you put out there.  And its pretty disgusting.
Here @jon_mx

Not hard to look up the page...no need to actually search, nothing been deleted.

You made the generalizations.  Back them up...Im sure there have been discussions...but those are big accusations you are making with nothing to back it up.  Some of the exact kind of stuff you call out and bash others for.

 
Here @jon_mx

Not hard to look up the page...no need to actually search, nothing been deleted.

You made the generalizations.  Back them up...Im sure there have been discussions...but those are big accusations you are making with nothing to back it up.  Some of the exact kind of stuff you call out and bash others for.
I knew where your question was.  HTH.  

 
Then try an answer...or was it just lashing out?  Because that seems pretty bad to bash the board that way with nothing to back it up.
That would require finding examples.  As I said, this board is very difficiult to search and content often times gets deleted.  I was obviously referring to finding the answers and not the question.  

 
This is old, but somehow found with Google:

________________________________________

What's so great about America?

Nothing.

It was founded by slave owners.

It's a racist, Christian, piggish in it's capitalist dogma.

We don't support enough of the poor.

Not enough people have health care.

We have ingrates running the white house, the supreme court, congress, etc.

We drive too many SUVs.

We go to war too often.

It's our fault the terrorists bombed us.

We torture citizens.

Bush spies on everybody.

We don't have freedom of speech.

Conservatives conspire to threaten NYTimes with violence.

___________________

 
The Amrica-bashing on this forum never ceases to amaze me.  Hate the flag.  Hate the anthem.  Hate the military.  Hate our history.  Hate our people.  


People spent eight years call GW Bush 'chimp', and now are appalled by one monkey reference.  
Hey, someone's gotta stand up for those racists, amiright?

Glad you were willing to come out of retirement to do the job.

 
This is old, but somehow found with Google:

________________________________________

What's so great about America?

Nothing.

It was founded by slave owners.

It's a racist, Christian, piggish in it's capitalist dogma.

We don't support enough of the poor.

Not enough people have health care.

We have ingrates running the white house, the supreme court, congress, etc.

We drive too many SUVs.

We go to war too often.

It's our fault the terrorists bombed us.

We torture citizens.

Bush spies on everybody.

We don't have freedom of speech.

Conservatives conspire to threaten NYTimes with violence.

___________________
The poster you quoted was being sarcastic, and he made that explicitly clear in the part of the post that you cut out.

 
That would require finding examples.  As I said, this board is very difficiult to search and content often times gets deleted.  I was obviously referring to finding the answers and not the question.  
Then perhaps...don't make the blanket generalization and accusation?

This is old, but somehow found with Google:

________________________________________

What's so great about America?

Nothing.

It was founded by slave owners.

It's a racist, Christian, piggish in it's capitalist dogma.

We don't support enough of the poor.

Not enough people have health care.

We have ingrates running the white house, the supreme court, congress, etc.

We drive too many SUVs.

We go to war too often.

It's our fault the terrorists bombed us.

We torture citizens.

Bush spies on everybody.

We don't have freedom of speech.

Conservatives conspire to threaten NYTimes with violence.

___________________
Some of that is over the top for sure.  Some of it is pretty spot on when talking about slavery, the racism, support of the poor, healthcare, what is going on in the white house and congress, torture, freedom of the press and threatening the press.  And then we get to what Ivan pointed out as well.

Pretty disingenuous here.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Then perhaps...don't make the blanket generalization and accusation?

Some of that is over the top for sure.  Some of it is pretty spot on when talking about slavery, the racism, support of the poor, healthcare, what is going on in the white house and congress, torture, freedom of the press and threatening the press.
As Ivan pointed out, it was meant as sarcasm, so my bad.  This forum is difficult to search.

 
All people need to be treated equally, period.        
After hundreds of years of oppressing groups of people - its not exactly "fair" to say: "OK, NOW everyone will be treated the same going forward!"

Everyone is not on equal footing right now - until you put everyone on the same level, its disingenuous to suggest that everyone should be treated the same.

In before: "Thats not fair, I've been part of a privileged group my entire life.  I am entitled to expect that to continue!" 

 
My apologies, I meant to say it was his first speech as the official nominee of the Republican Party for the office of the Presidency which is even worse. That he was a guest of Lott's is worse still. Knowing exactly what "states' rights" means to people like Trent Lott and southern whites, it's not like he had to say it over and over again to make himself clear. We all know what specific right they're referring to. If you want to feign ignorance of that or argue something different then we know exactly who is "distorting the facts to fit (their) narrative".

Lest you've conveniently forgotten, like his mentor Strom Thurmond, Trent Lott left the Democratic Party over their support of civil rights, i.e. they weren't racist enough. Thurmond was one of the leaders of the split and the resulting creation of the Dixiecrats (mentioned extensively earlier in this thread). When President Truman, one of Thurmond's fellow Democrats, supported ending discrimination in the military in 1948 following the honorable service of millions of black Americans during WWII, it was simply too much to bear and Thurmond started his own party, The States' Rights Democratic Party, to challenge Truman for the Presidency.

With Thurmond as their official candidate, The States' Rights' Democratic Party adopted a platform which read:

We stand for the segregation of the races and the racial integrity of each race; the constitutional right to choose one's associates; to accept private employment without governmental interference, and to earn one's living in any lawful way. We oppose the elimination of segregation, the repeal of miscegenation statutes (laws against bi-racial marriage), the control of private employment by Federal bureaucrats called for by the misnamed civil rights program. We favor home-rule, local self-government and a minimum interference with individual rights.

At Thurmond's 100th birthday party in 2002, Lott said "When Strom Thurmond ran for president, we voted for him. We're proud of it. And if the rest of the country had followed our lead, we wouldn't have had all these problems over the years, either."

And of course, when the Senate brought up a non-binding resolution to honor the civil rights activists murdered in the same small town where Reagan spoke, Lott, and the rest of the Mississippi delegation, refused to vote. If you're still unclear on what kind of people Thurmond and Lott were and the votes Reagan was courting with his "States' Rights" speech, you can always watch Mississippi Burning for a refresher.

You need to print out this post, glue it to your forehead, and every time you want to call this place a "cesspool" or accuse someone of personal attacks, go look in the mirror.

I agree wholeheartedly that "all people need to be treated equally", but unfortunately the people you've chosen to align yourself with do not. I don't know that you necessarily agree with their views, but otherwise the reason you continue to identify with them is a mystery.

Reagan calls black people monkeys, but I'm sure it was just a slip of the tongue and he was a great guy. Not that different from making fun of Bush's ears anyway.

Trent Lott was the Republican Senate Majority Leader until 2007. Besides what is posted above which barely scratches the surface of his racist history, he was also (and probably still is) a frequent guest of the openly white supremacist organization the Council of Conservative Citizens, along with many other prominent Republicans. Other than that I'm sure they're all just swell.

Two months ago, the Supreme Court ruled that the Virginian Republican Party's attempted gerrymander was so racist as to be unconstitutional. Not two weeks later the same body ruled that the stated justification for adding a citizenship question to the census was clearly contrived and didn't hide their racist intentions well enough. Chief Justice Roberts stated "we cannot ignore the disconnect between the decision made and the explanation given", but added that they simply had to come up with a better one. I guess they couldn't find one so they simply gave up. If you just ignore those I'm sure these Republicans have the highest moral character.

I guess we know now who is and isn't treating people equally.

You see my dear Jon, when you post stuff like this that is so over-the-top ridiculous it's no wonder you get ridiculed. I'd have more sympathy if you weren't constantly calling out for more abuse. Be the change you want to see my friend.
States Rights is part of our Constritution and a pillar of the separation of power and checks and balances which was essential to making  our system of government the greatest ever conceived.  Because it was used to prolong some terrible laws does not eliminate the important role it serves.  It is not a code word for being against interracial marriage or for segregation.   

 
After hundreds of years of oppressing groups of people - its not exactly "fair" to say: "OK, NOW everyone will be treated the same going forward!"

 

Everyone is not on equal footing right now - until you put everyone on the same level, its disingenuous to suggest that everyone should be treated the same.

In before: "Thats not fair, I've been part of a privileged group my entire life.  I am entitled to expect that to continue!" 
Whether you believe it is fair, it is essential.  You can't go back and try to ammend the sins of the past by punishing people who did not even exist at the time.  It is the only way to move forward as evidence of the racial strife we currently see.

 
Just as I suspected. You be you  :lol:

I'm was pretty sure the great white people of Mississippi were yearning for the freedom to lynch some s, but you're right. Concern about the separation of powers, checks and balances, and our system being the greatest ever conceived clearly makes more sense.
Sorry you hate the 10th Amendment.

 
  It is not a code word for being against interracial marriage or for segregation.   
Someone should have told Lee Atwater this before he went running off his mouth in 1981 as quoted earlier in this thread-

:censored:  So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.… “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than  :censored:  
I get that conservatives tried to claim that the quote was all made up and not real for a long period of time, but the quote is real.   Like most everything from that period that the silly partisan hacks on the left claimed about that era.

 
Whether you believe it is fair, it is essential.  You can't go back and try to ammend the sins of the past by punishing people who did not even exist at the time.  It is the only way to move forward as evidence of the racial strife we currently see.
We can't go back and amend anything.  What we can do is acknowledge the issues, apologize for them and make amends current day to those whose families were impacted.  That HAS to be part of moving forward.  We've done this before 5 or 6 times actually.

ETA:  And what do you mean by "punishing people" exactly?  I'm going to ask for clarification and give an opportunity to explain rather than assume how you wrote it is how you want it read.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
After hundreds of years of oppressing groups of people - its not exactly "fair" to say: "OK, NOW everyone will be treated the same going forward!"

Everyone is not on equal footing right now - until you put everyone on the same level, its disingenuous to suggest that everyone should be treated the same.

In before: "Thats not fair, I've been part of a privileged group my entire life.  I am entitled to expect that to continue!" 
In my travels in life I realized early that  bigotry, racism, prejudice, intolerant religious views have been around forever and will never go away.  I am not talking about just Caucasians, but Black , Asian, Arab, Hispanic, Muslim, Jew, Catholic, you name it.  It may go away on the surface but never really disappear.

 
Who is being punished? White people because they can't use racial slurs anymore? The horror.
It is not about not being able to use slurs, it is the everyday insults thrown at whites in this country.  Trump is a white supremist.  Trump is a fascist.  Therefore people who voted for him support white supremecy and fascism.  People who wear Trump hats are like Nazis.  Democrats largely characterize Republicans as sub-human.  People in this country who vote for the major parties are either 'white supremist/facist' or 'communist'.  That is where we are today, a culture of absolute hatred that is cut largely between racial interests by the two party system..  

 
So we are back to the same tricks of painting with a broad brush using the extremes as the starting point.  Wonderful.

FWIW, on this very board, we have had countless discussions regarding this topic and countless clarifications that "you are a racist" <> "you are voting for a racist and in doing so, at minimum pushing racism down your list of priorities".  I get that you can't let go of the talking point, but it's dishonest at this point and purposeful.  

The funny thing is, I am white and have NEVER been accused of being any of the things you claim.  I am standing here watching the GOP sprint to the radical right and watching the Dems try to fracture themselves so a group there can sprint to the left.  Of course, I don't remain silent when I see racism, sexism and xenophobia so i am left wondering about others when they are seeing it yet saying nothing.  Without that stated position, all we can do is assume.

I've said a million times here, I don't fault people for voting for Trump initially.  ####, I didn't think he meant half the #### he was saying on the campaign trail.  I chalked it up to standard pandering myself.  Well, now we have a body of work.  There is no longer a doubt.  So, if you're voting for him and continuing to support him you either approve of him OR you are willing to overlook A LOT to get what you want in other areas.  Neither is a ringing endorsement and holding someone accountable is hardly "punishing" them.

 
This is old, but somehow found with Google:

________________________________________

What's so great about America?

Nothing.

It was founded by slave owners.

It's a racist, Christian, piggish in it's capitalist dogma.

We don't support enough of the poor.

Not enough people have health care.

We have ingrates running the white house, the supreme court, congress, etc.

We drive too many SUVs.

We go to war too often.

It's our fault the terrorists bombed us.

We torture citizens.

Bush spies on everybody.

We don't have freedom of speech.

Conservatives conspire to threaten NYTimes with violence.

___________________
Wow, what a blatantly disingenuous thing to do. You selectively omitted the end of the post and thus completely changed the context of what you were quoting:

"Now, maybe some of the doomsayer left wing friends will see that their thoughts have already been posted and not come in to ruin this thread. Frankly, I love this country and the foundation it was built upon."

You ought to be ashamed of yourself for what you've done here. It's one of the most disgusting things that you've ever tried to pull.

 
Wow, what a blatantly disingenuous thing to do. You selectively omitted the end of the post and thus completely changed the context of what you were quoting:

"Now, maybe some of the doomsayer left wing friends will see that their thoughts have already been posted and not come in to ruin this thread. Frankly, I love this country and the foundation it was built upon."

You ought to be ashamed of yourself for what you've done here. It's one of the most disgusting things that you've ever tried to pull.
yeah, that was pretty bad.

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top