Realistically, I don’t think resigning would avoid that.OK if he knows hes going to be teleported to mars where a giant sand monster is going to eat him he might just resign to avoid that.
Realistically, I don’t think resigning would avoid that.OK if he knows hes going to be teleported to mars where a giant sand monster is going to eat him he might just resign to avoid that.
Lol.OK if he knows hes going to be teleported to mars where a giant sand monster is going to eat him he might just resign to avoid that.
Aww, c'mon. If this ever comes to fruition, I wanna to see the walls come down.Lol.
All I wrote is that there would never be a vote to convict him. If they knew that was going to happen he would resign. We will never ever see the conviction and removal of any President.
As insincere as this would be I would be pleased if it happened.US citizens are forgiving, and we love a good redemption story. This is where the Republicans fall on their swords, apologize for being hoodwinked by a swindler, and say "see America? We were wrong for a long time but we did the right thing! We put country over party! We booted the corrupt POTUS! That makes up for us running interference for him for four years! It's OK to vote for us, we really are nice people!"
So there is really nothing to the Ukraine call, but this will turn into a total fishing trip which you speculate will 100% lead to something that impeachable.I was at zero a few days ago, but am now pegged at 100% based on the revelation that an actual transcript of the Ukraine call exists on the top-secret server. The memo Trump released was a depiction of a 5-7 minute call, not even close to the documented length of 30 minutes. We already know that sitting next to the Ukraine call is a Saudi Arabia call and a Vladimir Putin call. I'd bet they're worse still and eventually we'll find out about the China call and the Mexico call and the Turkey call while Trump goes absolutely bonkers with unintelligible accusations and flinging of poo. This is probably where Rudy goes under the bus and Mulvaney we already know will be gone before the end of the weekend
On the off chance bananafish is right, I'd like to apologize to all the people I've wronged, wish you all well and say a fond farewell. Because if it goes down like this I'll be raptured straight to St. Peter's gate.I was at zero a few days ago, but am now pegged at 100% based on the revelation that an actual transcript of the Ukraine call exists on the top-secret server. The memo Trump released was a depiction of a 5-7 minute call, not even close to the documented length of 30 minutes. We already know that sitting next to the Ukraine call is a Saudi Arabia call and a Vladimir Putin call. I'd bet they're worse still and eventually we'll find out about the China call and the Mexico call and the Turkey call while Trump goes absolutely bonkers with unintelligible accusations and flinging of poo. This is probably where Rudy goes under the bus and Mulvaney we already know will be gone before the end of the weekend.
That will all seem like puppies and lullabies compared to when the North Korea tape gets comes out.
Trump will already be facing charges of Soliciting a Foreign National to Affect an American Election, Bribery, Misappropriation of Funds, and Criminal Conspiracy to Commit all of the above, as will be, at a minimum, William Barr and Rudy Giuliani and anyone else who moved the conversations to the hidden secret server. Just from the Ukraine tape. Oh yeah, Mike Pompeo was also served to appear next week, but he'll spill the beans long before that. The already toxic, paranoid atmosphere of the White House will get turned up to a bazillion as everybody realizes that working for Trump has made them guilty of multiple felonies and there's only so many seats available on the "Testify for Immunity" train that's about to leave the station.
After the tapes and the State Department they'll move on to the Department of Agriculture, then Commerce, Defense, Education, Energy, Health and Human Services, Homeland Security, Housing and Urban Development, Interior, Labor, State, Transportation, Treasury, and Veterans Affairs, all topped off with a Department of Justice/Attorney General cherry.
Lest you think me guilty of exaggeration, contemplate the man we are talking about for a moment. Remember when it became obvious that he would never talk to Mueller because it's impossible for him to not lie? He's equally incapable of not manipulating each and every human interaction for his own financial benefit. Damning, indefensible bombshells have been falling every couple hours since Wednesday...now imagine months and months more of the same thing but worse.
Conviction of High Crimes and Misdemeanors will be the least of it, as eventually Mitch and the rest of the Gang of Spinelessness will demand whoever replaces Bob Barr to start charging people, conveyor belt style, so the Republican Party will get the credit before the election. Hannity and Tucker will obviously start calling for the death penalty in an effort to save their own skins but their association with the most corrupt and treasonous President in American history won't be enough to save them. It's a shame, really.
Trump solicited a foreign country for dirt on a political rival. No debate.So there is really nothing to the Ukraine call, but this will turn into a total fishing trip which you speculate will 100% lead to something that impeachable.
So basically Trump is right on the Dem's real intentions and this is a witch hunt/fishing trip.
I'm getting here also. But to add to this, I think Trump will continue to commit crimes in an attempt to get out of this. Didn't it just come out yesterday that he made an agreement to reject any gun control legislation if the NRA funded his defense? I was reading it here on my phone and didn't check the source but if that's true I'm pretty sure we can throw that in the pile of crimes that is also easy to understand to the public and almost impossible to spin his way out of.bananafish said:I was at zero a few days ago, but am now pegged at 100% based on the revelation that an actual transcript of the Ukraine call exists on the top-secret server. The memo Trump released was a depiction of a 5-7 minute call, not even close to the documented length of 30 minutes. We already know that sitting next to the Ukraine call is a Saudi Arabia call and a Vladimir Putin call. I'd bet they're worse still and eventually we'll find out about the China call and the Mexico call and the Turkey call while Trump goes absolutely bonkers with unintelligible accusations and flinging of poo. This is probably where Rudy goes under the bus and Mulvaney we already know will be gone before the end of the weekend.
That will all seem like puppies and lullabies compared to when the North Korea tape gets comes out.
Trump will already be facing charges of Soliciting a Foreign National to Affect an American Election, Bribery, Misappropriation of Funds, and Criminal Conspiracy to Commit all of the above, as will be, at a minimum, William Barr and Rudy Giuliani and anyone else who moved the conversations to the hidden secret server. Just from the Ukraine tape. Oh yeah, Mike Pompeo was also served to appear next week, but he'll spill the beans long before that. The already toxic, paranoid atmosphere of the White House will get turned up to a bazillion as everybody realizes that working for Trump has made them guilty of multiple felonies and there's only so many seats available on the "Testify for Immunity" train that's about to leave the station.
After the tapes and the State Department they'll move on to the Department of Agriculture, then Commerce, Defense, Education, Energy, Health and Human Services, Homeland Security, Housing and Urban Development, Interior, Labor, State, Transportation, Treasury, and Veterans Affairs, all topped off with a Department of Justice/Attorney General cherry.
Lest you think me guilty of exaggeration, contemplate the man we are talking about for a moment. Remember when it became obvious that he would never talk to Mueller because it's impossible for him to not lie? He's equally incapable of not manipulating each and every human interaction for his own financial benefit. Damning, indefensible bombshells have been falling every couple hours since Wednesday...now imagine months and months more of the same thing but worse.
Conviction of High Crimes and Misdemeanors will be the least of it, as eventually Mitch and the rest of the Gang of Spinelessness will demand whoever replaces Bob Barr to start charging people, conveyor belt style, so the Republican Party will get the credit before the election. Hannity and Tucker will obviously start calling for the death penalty in an effort to save their own skins but their association with the most corrupt and treasonous President in American history won't be enough to save them. It's a shame, really.
Thats what you got out of his post? And about the story thus far?jon_mx said:So there is really nothing to the Ukraine call, but this will turn into a total fishing trip which you speculate will 100% lead to something that impeachable.
So basically Trump is right on the Dem's real intentions and this is a witch hunt/fishing trip.
And also used a server reserved for highly classified information to hide phone calls that are only politically damaging amd not of national security concern (beyond, you know, his offers and presence in the Oval being a threat to national security)The General said:Trump solicited a foreign country for dirt on a political rival. No debate.
Pretty clear he used money promised from us as leverage.
This is the stuff he’s dumb enough to talk about on a call with 20 people listening.
There is debate whether opposition research is prohibited and is an issue which has never been addressed by the courts. Just because some people believe it should be banned and could be covered under existing law does not make it so. If it is banned, the Hillary campaigned clearly violated this also.The General said:Trump solicited a foreign country for dirt on a political rival. No debate.
Pretty clear he used money promised from us as leverage.
This is the stuff he’s dumb enough to talk about on a call with 20 people listening.
Servers which contain classified information are not reserved exclusively for classified information. This sever seeming contains other transcripts between various foreign leaders, so this seems consistent to the type of information which is stored there.And also used a server reserved for highly classified information to hide phone calls that are only politically damaging amd not of national security concern (beyond, you know, his offers and presence in the Oval being a threat to national security)
That isn't opposition research. You know this.There is debate whether opposition research is prohibited and is an issue which has never been addressed by the courts. Just because some people believe it should be banned and could be covered under existing law does not make it so. If it is banned, the Hillary campaigned clearly violated this also.
Being pretty clear is simply one asserting their view. It was not explicit, which for impeachment to be successful needs to be.
So you think it was all on the up and up?Servers which contain classified information are not reserved exclusively for classified information. This sever seeming contains other transcripts between various foreign leaders, so this seems consistent to the type of information which is stored there.
There is nothing illegal or unethical in the act of simply storing it there. So far nothing has come out which clearly violates a law. So whatever we may think is based on speculation and innuendo and interpretations of unresolved issues of law.So you think it was all on the up and up?
Do you think it was on the up and up and not done to hide such calls?There is nothing illegal or unethical in the act of simply storing it there. So far nothing has come out which clearly violates a law. So whatever we may think is based on speculation and innuendo and interpretations of unresolved issues of law.
The same laws apply to both.That isn't opposition research. You know this.
And how many times now has it been explained the difference between the Hillary campaign hiring Fusion...and POTUS contacting a foreign leader to investigate?
Yes...the differences are quite clear.
Of course it was done to hide the content of the calls. That is his executive privilege to do so if he believes the call was sensitive in any way.Do you think it was on the up and up and not done to hide such calls?
I didn't say illegal or unethical. No need to spin...just what the question sates.
High crimes and misdemeanors. The prez asking for another country to help him out perhaps by doing him a favor nudge, nudge to investigate isn’t too far from just make something up for me and I’ll repeat it on my Twitter machine. Trump loves himself some tinhat stuff, guy falls for all of them.There is debate whether opposition research is prohibited and is an issue which has never been addressed by the courts. Just because some people believe it should be banned and could be covered under existing law does not make it so. If it is banned, the Hillary campaigned clearly violated this also.
Being pretty clear is simply one asserting their view. It was not explicit, which for impeachment to be successful needs to be.
Would you mind taking this little test? I have here some pictures, and I’d like you check the ones that have cars in them. TiaOf course it was done to hide the content of the calls. That is his executive privilege to do so if he believes the call was sensitive in any way.
You are incorrect.The same laws apply to both.
But the accusation here was that the calls were sensitive because they were politically damaging...not that they contained sensitive information about the country.Of course it was done to hide the content of the calls. That is his executive privilege to do so if he believes the call was sensitive in any way.
Impeachment is not about the laws. I know you have seen Lindsey Graham hammer home that point.The same laws apply to both.
It does not bother me how dirt is dug up unless it is done by illegally hacking, illegal tapping or stealing. If politicians are dirty and country X has some credible and damaging info, let's hear it.High crimes and misdemeanors. The prez asking for another country to help him out perhaps by doing him a favor nudge, nudge to investigate isn’t too far from just make something up for me and I’ll repeat it on my Twitter machine. Trump loves himself some tinhat stuff, guy falls for all of them.
At the very least all this needs to be investigated, seems like most are on board for this. Laughable to me people are arguing otherwise.
If Trump wants no more “witch hunts” he needs to stop being such a witch, guy might as well be casting spells and mixing up eye of newt in a cauldron.
The law is it is illegal to accept, it does not stipulate if you pay for it it is all ok.You are incorrect.
A. Hillary paid Fusion to do opposition research. Anything of value she would receive had been paid for. Not an FEC violation for sure.
B. Trump asked for a favor (likely dangling military aid based on the timing and what we know) to a foreign leader in order to have his political rival investigated.
That you think the two are the same...and have yet to show in any way how they are is the issue here.
It really does not bother ms that he went after Biden. I would expect a democrat leader to do the same if they suspected a Repiblican of doing something wrong. Of course Trump is a loon and his theories are nonsense, but that is another issue.Impeachment is not about the laws. I know you have seen Lindsey Graham hammer home that point.
What Trump is doin g0 is using his position as President to specifically target political rivals. The founding fathers probably never envisioned the internet and/or social media - but the one thing they were concerned about when they included impeachment - was an elected official using his position for personal purposes, rather than for the good of the country. Trump is who they imagined when they included impeachment as a remedy.
If we impeached every politician who tries to hid embarrassing information, we would have to have special elections to replace every politician.But the accusation here was that the calls were sensitive because they were politically damaging...not that they contained sensitive information about the country.
Do you believe that is proper behavior from POTUS?
No...I would expect a President no matter what party to go through proper channels if he felt someone did something wrong. Had he gone through his DOJ (who had no interest in this as there still appears to be nothing there) this wouldn't be this type of issue.It really does not bother ms that he went after Biden. I would expect a democrat leader to do the same if they suspected a Repiblican of doing something wrong. Of course Trump is a loon and his theories are nonsense, but that is another issue.
Can you just answer the question?If we impeached every politician who tries to hid embarrassing information, we would have to have special elections to replace every politician.
He should go through the normal channels. Maybe you are fine with it, I’m guessing plenty of people are not.It does not bother me how dirt is dug up unless it is done by illegally hacking, illegal tapping or stealing. If politicians are dirty and country X has some credible and damaging info, let's hear it.
Why? What does whether it is proper have anything to do with it. Trump behaves improperly everyday. Nothing which has been established raises to impeachment. That is what matters.Can you just answer the question?
Do you believe its proper to do as he is doing Jon? Its a simple question.
Nobody is saying impeach him alone for that one thing.
The sheer magnitude of improper things does raise to impeachment Jon.Why? What does whether it is proper have anything to do with it. Trump behaves improperly everyday. Nothing which has been established raises to impeachment. That is what matters.
I am fine with not going through 'normal channels'.He should go through the normal channels. Maybe you are fine with it, I’m guessing plenty of people are not.
You really need one big thing to hang your hat on.The sheer magnitude of improper things does raise to impeachment Jon.
There are several big things.You really need one big thing to hang your hat on.
*routSo much hyperbole, so little time. I am watching football. Well until the real Lions show up and it turns into a route.