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9.27.19 - Poll - % Chance You Think Trump Will Be Removed From Office Over Ukraine Issue

What Percent Chance Do You Say Trump Is Removed From Office Over The Ukraine Issue?  

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10 minutes ago, tonydead said:

OK if he knows hes going to be teleported to mars where a giant sand monster is going to eat him he might just resign to avoid that. 

Realistically, I don’t think resigning would avoid that.

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27 minutes ago, tonydead said:

OK if he knows hes going to be teleported to mars where a giant sand monster is going to eat him he might just resign to avoid that. 

Lol. 

All I wrote is that there would never be a vote to convict him. If they knew that was going to happen he would resign. We will never ever see the conviction and removal of any President. 

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19 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Lol. 

All I wrote is that there would never be a vote to convict him. If they knew that was going to happen he would resign. We will never ever see the conviction and removal of any President. 

Aww, c'mon. If this ever comes to fruition, I wanna to see the walls come down.

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Removed?  0%

Impeached, maybe.  Resigns, slightly greater than zero.  If they're smart, the Dems will stop at impeachment.  That'll be enough.  A forceable removed will only serve to fire up the Replica base for 2020.

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If there were somehow enough evidence of Trump's wrongdoing that the Republican Senate voted to remove him, it'd be a Democratic sweep in 2020.  The bar there is SO high that if it were cleared it'd rip the Republicans apart.

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I voted 70%, and I'm thinking that's not high enough. By the time the impeachment goes through the house to the Senate, the amount of corruption evidence against Trump will be staggering. And if the last few years have shown us anything, it's that Mitch McConnell is every bit as self-serving as Donald Trump. He's facing a tough re-election campaign in 2020, and when public sentiment against Trump reaches its nadir, there's no way he'll stick his neck out to protect Trump.  The Senate will vote to remove DJT.

US citizens are forgiving, and we love a good redemption story. This is where the Republicans fall on their swords, apologize for being hoodwinked by a swindler, and say "see America? We were wrong for a long time but we did the right thing! We put country over party! We booted the corrupt POTUS! That makes up for us running interference for him for four years! It's OK to vote for us, we really are nice people!"

It'll be their best and only chance to not get whitewashed as a party in 2020. They'll take some serious lumps for sure, maybe even lose the Senate, but I think this scenario increases the likelihood of the Reps dealing with a 2-8 year setback as opposed to the near annihilation of their party.

The biggest problem IMO is getting some of the individual right-wing media power players on board (Limbaugh especially, but also Levin, Hannity and the rest of the Fox stable of commentators, et al). I'm not sure how the Reps will approach this, but they need to. These guys are the biggest reason we are where we are. 25 years of their influence over the electorate has poisoned the well when it comes to bipartisanship. Staunch conservatives that listen to these guys are extremely inclined to distrust EVERYTHING Dems say and do. They've been told that all the Dems are Socialists or worse, they hate America, and that Trump is a great President; the audience believes it. Not sure if/how Limbaugh and his ilk can make the pivot, but the GOP is beholden to these audiences and hosts for votes and can't afford for them to be completely pro-Trump through all of this. They'll have to figure out a way to get back to the halcyon days of the media just being pro- GOP and anti- Dem, before Trump commandeered the whole apparatus for himself.

 

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The chances are basically zero. If you could guarantee congressional Republicans a political fallout similar to Nixon's, I'd guess the chances would move into the 70 or 80% range.

Nixon resigned in August '74. Republicans lost 40+ seats in the House that year and 4 seats in the Senate. However, there was basically no change in Senate or House in '76 and they only lost the presidency by 2 points. If Republicans had the extra time to damage control maybe they could engineer something close to '76, but each day that passes makes that more difficult.

If you sat Mitch down and told him he'd lose no more than 2-3 Senate seats, then he'd deal with one term of Biden, then he'd get a Reagan-level president, Trump would be gone by Thanksgiving. 

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3 hours ago, Herb said:

 

US citizens are forgiving, and we love a good redemption story. This is where the Republicans fall on their swords, apologize for being hoodwinked by a swindler, and say "see America? We were wrong for a long time but we did the right thing! We put country over party! We booted the corrupt POTUS! That makes up for us running interference for him for four years! It's OK to vote for us, we really are nice people!"

 

 

As insincere as this would be I would be pleased if it happened.

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This is a tough one.   As of right now I think it is close to zero for the Senate to vote to remove.  Close to zero for a resignation that is publicly over this issue.  A little higher, but still close to zero that there is a resignation for "health reasons".  A little higher, but not much that the stress of this causes an actual health issues.   If this was the 80s there would be a non zero chance of ... never mind.  

So maybe all of that adds up to 10% or so.  But I went with 30%.   Why?  I just don't see Trump behaving the next four or six months in an acceptable way and while the odds are still small this time he won't be pushing back and making a mockery of House Democrats but instead forcing the issue with GOP Senators in the spotlight.  Still low, but if he pushes too hard a few having to answer again and again about the latest antics might give in to their frustrations and then a snow ball might get rolling pretty quickly seemingly out of nowhere.  Don't expect it, but I think all of the makings will be there.  

Still low, but 30% was roughly Trumps' chance of winning in 2016 so it also seems about right for purely symbolic reasons.

Edited by Bottomfeeder Sports
swapped words that were in the wrong order

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I voted 10%. That is basically 0% chance that, based on what we know currently, the Senate will vote to remove him...plus a slight chance that something more concrete and indefensible might come out during the impeachment investigation.

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So let me get this straight, the Republicans sat on a Supreme Court nominee for a year until the elections but some of you guys think they are going to impeach a president from their own party in about the same timeframe? 

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I was at zero a few days ago, but am now pegged at 100% based on the revelation that an actual transcript of the Ukraine call exists on the top-secret server. The memo Trump released was a depiction of a 5-7 minute call, not even close to the documented length of 30 minutes. We already know that sitting next to the Ukraine call is a Saudi Arabia call and a Vladimir Putin call. I'd bet they're worse still and eventually we'll find out about the China call and the Mexico call and the Turkey call while Trump goes absolutely bonkers with unintelligible accusations and flinging of poo. This is probably where Rudy goes under the bus and Mulvaney we already know will be gone before the end of the weekend.

That will all seem like puppies and lullabies compared to when the North Korea tape gets comes out.

Trump will already be facing charges of Soliciting a Foreign National to Affect an American Election, Bribery, Misappropriation of Funds, and Criminal Conspiracy to Commit all of the above, as will be, at a minimum, William Barr and Rudy Giuliani and anyone else who moved the conversations to the hidden secret server. Just from the Ukraine tape. Oh yeah, Mike Pompeo was also served to appear next week, but he'll spill the beans long before that. The already toxic, paranoid atmosphere of the White House will get turned up to a bazillion as everybody realizes that working for Trump has made them guilty of multiple felonies and there's only so many seats available on the "Testify for Immunity" train that's about to leave the station.

After the tapes and the State Department they'll move on to the Department of Agriculture, then Commerce, Defense, Education, Energy, Health and Human Services, Homeland Security, Housing and Urban Development, Interior, Labor, State, Transportation, Treasury, and Veterans Affairs, all topped off with a Department of Justice/Attorney General cherry. 

Lest you think me guilty of exaggeration,  contemplate the man we are talking about for a moment. Remember when it became obvious that he would never talk to Mueller because it's impossible for him to not lie? He's equally incapable of not manipulating each and every human interaction for his own financial benefit. Damning, indefensible bombshells have been falling every couple hours since Wednesday...now imagine months and months more of the same thing but worse.

Conviction of High Crimes and Misdemeanors will be the least of it, as eventually Mitch and the rest of the Gang of Spinelessness will demand whoever replaces Bob Barr to start charging people, conveyor belt style, so the Republican Party will get the credit before the election. Hannity and Tucker will obviously start calling for the death penalty in an effort to save their own skins but their association with the most corrupt and treasonous President in American history won't be enough to save them. It's a shame, really.

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51 minutes ago, bananafish said:

I was at zero a few days ago, but am now pegged at 100% based on the revelation that an actual transcript of the Ukraine call exists on the top-secret server. The memo Trump released was a depiction of a 5-7 minute call, not even close to the documented length of 30 minutes. We already know that sitting next to the Ukraine call is a Saudi Arabia call and a Vladimir Putin call. I'd bet they're worse still and eventually we'll find out about the China call and the Mexico call and the Turkey call while Trump goes absolutely bonkers with unintelligible accusations and flinging of poo. This is probably where Rudy goes under the bus and Mulvaney we already know will be gone before the end of the weekend

So there is really nothing to the Ukraine call, but this will turn into a total fishing trip which you speculate will 100% lead to something that impeachable.  :lol:

So basically Trump is right on the Dem's real intentions and this is a witch hunt/fishing trip.

Edited by jon_mx

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2 hours ago, bananafish said:

I was at zero a few days ago, but am now pegged at 100% based on the revelation that an actual transcript of the Ukraine call exists on the top-secret server. The memo Trump released was a depiction of a 5-7 minute call, not even close to the documented length of 30 minutes. We already know that sitting next to the Ukraine call is a Saudi Arabia call and a Vladimir Putin call. I'd bet they're worse still and eventually we'll find out about the China call and the Mexico call and the Turkey call while Trump goes absolutely bonkers with unintelligible accusations and flinging of poo. This is probably where Rudy goes under the bus and Mulvaney we already know will be gone before the end of the weekend.

That will all seem like puppies and lullabies compared to when the North Korea tape gets comes out.

Trump will already be facing charges of Soliciting a Foreign National to Affect an American Election, Bribery, Misappropriation of Funds, and Criminal Conspiracy to Commit all of the above, as will be, at a minimum, William Barr and Rudy Giuliani and anyone else who moved the conversations to the hidden secret server. Just from the Ukraine tape. Oh yeah, Mike Pompeo was also served to appear next week, but he'll spill the beans long before that. The already toxic, paranoid atmosphere of the White House will get turned up to a bazillion as everybody realizes that working for Trump has made them guilty of multiple felonies and there's only so many seats available on the "Testify for Immunity" train that's about to leave the station.

After the tapes and the State Department they'll move on to the Department of Agriculture, then Commerce, Defense, Education, Energy, Health and Human Services, Homeland Security, Housing and Urban Development, Interior, Labor, State, Transportation, Treasury, and Veterans Affairs, all topped off with a Department of Justice/Attorney General cherry. 

Lest you think me guilty of exaggeration,  contemplate the man we are talking about for a moment. Remember when it became obvious that he would never talk to Mueller because it's impossible for him to not lie? He's equally incapable of not manipulating each and every human interaction for his own financial benefit. Damning, indefensible bombshells have been falling every couple hours since Wednesday...now imagine months and months more of the same thing but worse.

Conviction of High Crimes and Misdemeanors will be the least of it, as eventually Mitch and the rest of the Gang of Spinelessness will demand whoever replaces Bob Barr to start charging people, conveyor belt style, so the Republican Party will get the credit before the election. Hannity and Tucker will obviously start calling for the death penalty in an effort to save their own skins but their association with the most corrupt and treasonous President in American history won't be enough to save them. It's a shame, really.

On the off chance bananafish is right, I'd like to apologize to all the people I've wronged, wish you all well and say a fond farewell.  Because if it goes down like this I'll be raptured straight to St. Peter's gate.

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2 hours ago, jon_mx said:

So there is really nothing to the Ukraine call, but this will turn into a total fishing trip which you speculate will 100% lead to something that impeachable.  :lol:

So basically Trump is right on the Dem's real intentions and this is a witch hunt/fishing trip.

Trump solicited a foreign country for dirt on a political rival. No debate.

Pretty clear he used money promised from us as leverage. 

This is the stuff he’s dumb enough to talk about on a call with 20 people listening. 

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I went with 10%.  It's probably much lower, as history has shown that it is nearly impossible to not only impeach an American president, but also remove them from office, but Trump is such an outlier in so many ways that anything is possible. 

Edited by Ghost Rider

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3 hours ago, bananafish said:

I was at zero a few days ago, but am now pegged at 100% based on the revelation that an actual transcript of the Ukraine call exists on the top-secret server. The memo Trump released was a depiction of a 5-7 minute call, not even close to the documented length of 30 minutes. We already know that sitting next to the Ukraine call is a Saudi Arabia call and a Vladimir Putin call. I'd bet they're worse still and eventually we'll find out about the China call and the Mexico call and the Turkey call while Trump goes absolutely bonkers with unintelligible accusations and flinging of poo. This is probably where Rudy goes under the bus and Mulvaney we already know will be gone before the end of the weekend.

That will all seem like puppies and lullabies compared to when the North Korea tape gets comes out.

Trump will already be facing charges of Soliciting a Foreign National to Affect an American Election, Bribery, Misappropriation of Funds, and Criminal Conspiracy to Commit all of the above, as will be, at a minimum, William Barr and Rudy Giuliani and anyone else who moved the conversations to the hidden secret server. Just from the Ukraine tape. Oh yeah, Mike Pompeo was also served to appear next week, but he'll spill the beans long before that. The already toxic, paranoid atmosphere of the White House will get turned up to a bazillion as everybody realizes that working for Trump has made them guilty of multiple felonies and there's only so many seats available on the "Testify for Immunity" train that's about to leave the station.

After the tapes and the State Department they'll move on to the Department of Agriculture, then Commerce, Defense, Education, Energy, Health and Human Services, Homeland Security, Housing and Urban Development, Interior, Labor, State, Transportation, Treasury, and Veterans Affairs, all topped off with a Department of Justice/Attorney General cherry. 

Lest you think me guilty of exaggeration,  contemplate the man we are talking about for a moment. Remember when it became obvious that he would never talk to Mueller because it's impossible for him to not lie? He's equally incapable of not manipulating each and every human interaction for his own financial benefit. Damning, indefensible bombshells have been falling every couple hours since Wednesday...now imagine months and months more of the same thing but worse.

Conviction of High Crimes and Misdemeanors will be the least of it, as eventually Mitch and the rest of the Gang of Spinelessness will demand whoever replaces Bob Barr to start charging people, conveyor belt style, so the Republican Party will get the credit before the election. Hannity and Tucker will obviously start calling for the death penalty in an effort to save their own skins but their association with the most corrupt and treasonous President in American history won't be enough to save them. It's a shame, really.

I'm getting here also. But to add to this, I think Trump will continue to commit crimes in an attempt to get out of this. Didn't it just come out yesterday that he made an agreement to reject any gun control legislation if the NRA funded his defense? I was reading it here on my phone and didn't check the source but if that's true I'm pretty sure we can throw that in the pile of crimes that is also easy to understand to the public and almost impossible to spin his way out of. 

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3 hours ago, jon_mx said:

So there is really nothing to the Ukraine call, but this will turn into a total fishing trip which you speculate will 100% lead to something that impeachable.  :lol:

So basically Trump is right on the Dem's real intentions and this is a witch hunt/fishing trip.

Thats what you got out of his post? And about the story thus far?

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1 hour ago, The General said:

Trump solicited a foreign country for dirt on a political rival. No debate.

Pretty clear he used money promised from us as leverage. 

This is the stuff he’s dumb enough to talk about on a call with 20 people listening. 

And also used a server reserved for highly classified information to hide phone calls that are only politically damaging amd not of national security concern (beyond, you know, his offers and presence in the Oval being a threat to national security)

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2 hours ago, The General said:

Trump solicited a foreign country for dirt on a political rival. No debate.

Pretty clear he used money promised from us as leverage. 

This is the stuff he’s dumb enough to talk about on a call with 20 people listening. 

There is debate whether opposition research is prohibited and is an issue which has never been addressed by the courts.  Just because some people believe it should be banned and could be covered under existing law does not make it so.  If it is banned, the Hillary campaigned clearly violated this also.  

Being pretty clear is simply one asserting their view.  It was not explicit, which for impeachment to be successful needs to be.  

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1 hour ago, sho nuff said:

And also used a server reserved for highly classified information to hide phone calls that are only politically damaging amd not of national security concern (beyond, you know, his offers and presence in the Oval being a threat to national security)

Servers which contain classified information are not reserved exclusively for classified information.  This sever seeming contains other transcripts between various foreign leaders, so this seems consistent to the type of information which is stored there. 

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4 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

There is debate whether opposition research is prohibited and is an issue which has never been addressed by the courts.  Just because some people believe it should be banned and could be covered under existing law does not make it so.  If it is banned, the Hillary campaigned clearly violated this also.  

Being pretty clear is simply one asserting their view.  It was not explicit, which for impeachment to be successful needs to be.  

That isn't opposition research.  You know this.

And how many times now has it been explained the difference between the Hillary campaign hiring Fusion...and POTUS contacting a foreign leader to investigate?

Yes...the differences are quite clear.

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Just now, jon_mx said:

Servers which contain classified information are not reserved exclusively for classified information.  This sever seeming contains other transcripts between various foreign leaders, so this seems consistent to the type of information which is stored there. 

So you think it was all on the up and up?

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1 minute ago, sho nuff said:

So you think it was all on the up and up?

There is nothing illegal or unethical in the act of simply storing it there.  So far nothing has come out which clearly violates a law.  So whatever we may think is based on speculation and innuendo and interpretations of unresolved issues of law.  

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Just now, jon_mx said:

There is nothing illegal or unethical in the act of simply storing it there.  So far nothing has come out which clearly violates a law.  So whatever we may think is based on speculation and innuendo and interpretations of unresolved issues of law.  

Do you think it was on the up and up and not done to hide such calls?

I didn't say illegal or unethical.  No need to spin...just what the question sates.

 

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5 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

That isn't opposition research.  You know this.

And how many times now has it been explained the difference between the Hillary campaign hiring Fusion...and POTUS contacting a foreign leader to investigate?

Yes...the differences are quite clear.

The same laws apply to both.  

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Just now, sho nuff said:

Do you think it was on the up and up and not done to hide such calls?

I didn't say illegal or unethical.  No need to spin...just what the question sates.

 

Of course it was done to hide the content of the calls.  That is his executive privilege to do so if he believes the call was sensitive in any way.  

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6 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

There is debate whether opposition research is prohibited and is an issue which has never been addressed by the courts.  Just because some people believe it should be banned and could be covered under existing law does not make it so.  If it is banned, the Hillary campaigned clearly violated this also.  

Being pretty clear is simply one asserting their view.  It was not explicit, which for impeachment to be successful needs to be.  

High crimes and misdemeanors. The prez asking for another country to help him out perhaps by doing him a favor nudge, nudge to investigate isn’t too far from just make something up for me and I’ll repeat it on my Twitter machine. Trump loves himself some tinhat stuff, guy falls for all of them.

At the very least all this needs to be investigated, seems like most are on board for this. Laughable to me people are arguing otherwise.

If Trump wants no more “witch hunts” he needs to stop being such a witch, guy might as well be casting spells and mixing up eye of newt in a cauldron.

 

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0.00% chance Trump is removed for anything before the election.  

Politics is so dirty at this time.  It doesn't matter if the person is wrong or right it is about winning.   Having to protect and defend  a person who is wrong, guilty, and nasty eventually has to become very tiresome.  

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7 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

Of course it was done to hide the content of the calls.  That is his executive privilege to do so if he believes the call was sensitive in any way.  

Would you mind taking this little test? I have here some pictures, and I’d like you check the ones that have cars in them. Tia

Edited by timschochet
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Just now, jon_mx said:

The same laws apply to both.  

You are incorrect.

A.  Hillary paid Fusion to do opposition research.  Anything of value she would receive had been paid for.  Not an FEC violation for sure.

B.  Trump asked for a favor (likely dangling military aid based on the timing and what we know) to a foreign leader in order to have his political rival investigated.  

That you think the two are the same...and have yet to show in any way how they are is the issue here.

You even admitted in the other thread that what Trump did was not about national security...but that he made the excuse for plausible deniability.

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/757344-official-psf-moderation-thread/?do=findComment&comment=22186632

 

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6 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

Of course it was done to hide the content of the calls.  That is his executive privilege to do so if he believes the call was sensitive in any way.  

But the accusation here was that the calls were sensitive because they were politically damaging...not that they contained sensitive information about the country.

Do you believe that is proper behavior from POTUS?

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7 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

The same laws apply to both.  

Impeachment is not about the laws.  I know you have seen Lindsey Graham hammer home that point.

What Trump is doin g0 is using his position as President to specifically target political rivals.  The founding fathers probably never envisioned the internet and/or social media - but the one thing they were concerned about when they included impeachment - was an elected official using his position for personal purposes, rather than for the good of the country.  Trump is who they imagined when they included impeachment as a remedy.

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2 minutes ago, The General said:

High crimes and misdemeanors. The prez asking for another country to help him out perhaps by doing him a favor nudge, nudge to investigate isn’t too far from just make something up for me and I’ll repeat it on my Twitter machine. Trump loves himself some tinhat stuff, guy falls for all of them.

At the very least all this needs to be investigated, seems like most are on board for this. Laughable to me people are arguing otherwise.

If Trump wants no more “witch hunts” he needs to stop being such a witch, guy might as well be casting spells and mixing up eye of newt in a cauldron.

 

It does not bother me how dirt is dug up unless it is done by illegally hacking, illegal tapping or stealing.  If politicians are dirty and country X has some credible and damaging info, let's hear it.  

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5 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

You are incorrect.

A.  Hillary paid Fusion to do opposition research.  Anything of value she would receive had been paid for.  Not an FEC violation for sure.

B.  Trump asked for a favor (likely dangling military aid based on the timing and what we know) to a foreign leader in order to have his political rival investigated.  

That you think the two are the same...and have yet to show in any way how they are is the issue here.

 

 

The law is it is illegal to accept, it does not stipulate if you pay for it it is all ok. 

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5 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

Impeachment is not about the laws.  I know you have seen Lindsey Graham hammer home that point.

What Trump is doin g0 is using his position as President to specifically target political rivals.  The founding fathers probably never envisioned the internet and/or social media - but the one thing they were concerned about when they included impeachment - was an elected official using his position for personal purposes, rather than for the good of the country.  Trump is who they imagined when they included impeachment as a remedy.

It really does not bother ms that he went after Biden.  I would expect a democrat leader to do the same if they suspected a Repiblican of doing something wrong.  Of course Trump is a loon and his theories are nonsense, but that is another issue.  

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11 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

But the accusation here was that the calls were sensitive because they were politically damaging...not that they contained sensitive information about the country.

Do you believe that is proper behavior from POTUS?

If we impeached every politician who tries to hid embarrassing information, we would have to have special elections to replace every politician.  

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1 minute ago, jon_mx said:

It really does not bother ms that he went after Biden.  I would expect a democrat leader to do the same if they suspected a Repiblican of doing something wrong.  Of course Trump is a loon and his theories are nonsense, but that is another issue.  

No...I would expect a President no matter what party to go through proper channels if he felt someone did something wrong.  Had he gone through his DOJ (who had no interest in this as there still appears to be nothing there) this wouldn't be this type of issue.

Instead...he got wind of a conspiracy theory...believed it, of course...then pushed a foreign leader to investigate while dangling military aide...then hid the calls because they didn't look good...and lied multiple times about the whole thing.

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Just now, jon_mx said:

If we impeached every politician who tries to hid embarrassing information, we would have to have special elections to replace every politician.  

Can you just answer the question?  

Do you believe its proper to do as he is doing Jon?  Its a simple question.

Nobody is saying impeach him alone for that one thing.

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22 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

It does not bother me how dirt is dug up unless it is done by illegally hacking, illegal tapping or stealing.  If politicians are dirty and country X has some credible and damaging info, let's hear it.  

He should go through the normal channels. Maybe you are fine with it, I’m guessing plenty of people are not. 

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32 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Can you just answer the question?  

Do you believe its proper to do as he is doing Jon?  Its a simple question.

Nobody is saying impeach him alone for that one thing.

Why?  What does whether it is proper have anything to do with it.  Trump behaves improperly everyday.  Nothing which has been established raises to impeachment.  That is what matters.

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1 minute ago, jon_mx said:

Why?  What does whether it is proper have anything to do with it.  Trump behaves improperly everyday.  Nothing which has been established raises to impeachment.  That is what matters.

The sheer magnitude of improper things does raise to impeachment Jon.

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29 minutes ago, The General said:

He should go through the normal channels. Maybe you are fine with it, I’m guessing plenty of people are not. 

I am fine with not going through 'normal channels'.  

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2 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

The sheer magnitude of improper things does raise to impeachment Jon.

You really need one big thing to hang your hat on.  

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Just now, jon_mx said:

You really need one big thing to hang your hat on.  

There are several big things.

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Those are some big league mental contortions going on, it’s comical (and depressing).

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4 hours ago, jon_mx said:

So there is really nothing to the Ukraine call, but this will turn into a total fishing trip which you speculate will 100% lead to something that impeachable.  :lol:

So basically Trump is right on the Dem's real intentions and this is a witch hunt/fishing trip.

Yes, Jon. Thank god with your towering intellect you were able to decipher the subtle and nuanced meaning behind my usage of the English language. There were no guarantees, but I took a chance in the hopes that somebody, somewhere might understand my revelatory and controversial position. You know, like cracking the DaVinci Code :bow:

 

No, wait. That isn't it at all.

I originally thought that, even though most Republicans fully grasp the danger of Trump's corruption and ineptitude and privately hate his guts, their cynical political calculations meant no chance of conviction as power by any and all means necessary is their creed.

You see, in a democracy,  especially when your party is inherently unpopular due to its moral bankruptcy and servitude to the privileged class, every creative and despicable means of making the political process less democratic is to your advantage. Not being particularly beholden to upholding democratic ideals, there is no quandary with deliberately disenfranchising voters, racial gerrymandering, discouraging participation in the census, supporting moneyed individuals and corporations having an outsized influence on the role and makeup of the government, holding up judicial nominations for years, etc., etc.

Donald Trump is simply the embodiment of modern Republican philosophy taken to the nth degree, but he makes his defenders twist and contort into awfully uncomfortable and clearly immoral positions to justify and minimize his criminally narcissistic behavior, and when he randomly changes his own defenses on a daily basis, they are forced to take even more awkward and indefensible positions. [narrator: this is happening in real time in this very thread if you'd like some examples, as clumsy and ham-fisted as they might be] They'd love nothing more than to be rid of him and keep the power, but what I'm saying is that won't be possible much longer and it's clear which one they'll choose. 

Everyone in the White House is either fully aware (or rapidly coming to be) of their culpability in aiding and abetting a criminal enterprise which will speed things up a bit as they struggle, not to keep their power, but their freedom. There'll be no shortage of sleepless nights being had outside the Executive branch, either. 

Trump's crimes are so extreme, egregious and extensive (not to mention moronic and obvious), that as the full panoply is laid bare, day after day, call by call, document by document, department by department, his tribe will unhesitatingly abandon him as soon as it's clear which way the winds are blowing. Trump has already unsalvageably damaged the Party for a generation, and out of desperation to keep it from being annihilated altogether, Republicans will put forth vehement, full-throated oratories demanding the prosecution of him and his co-conspirators to the fullest extent of the law (and sometimes beyond it),  to "prove" how disgusted they are by his behavior and the depths of the deception they were subjected to.

We all know that ignorance of the law is no excuse, but in this case it's all they've got. The one thing about the Trumpian era they're praying extends beyond his reign is the gullibility of his base, as the success of this strategy will be proportional. Hoping beyond hope to keep their dim hopes of preventing a filibuster-proof majority alive, they'll be highly motivated to get this process rolling before the general. 

So no, Trump isn't "right on the Dem's intentions", nor has he ever been right about anything beyond the attractiveness of his xenophobic, anti-establishment philosophy (if you can call such a thing a philosophy) to a certain segment of the American population.

Luckily, the philosophy of freedom and equal justice under the law is still attractive to a majority of Americans, which will have him, his family, and the rest of his entourage living out the rest of their days in Riker's Island (okay, the location may be a stretch, but that would be real justice if such a thing were possible).

Is my position clear now? Did I stutter? I'm happy to go through it again, but I'm perplexed as to how to simplify it any further. Let's try this:

Donald Trump is the worst criminal in American political history, and while the Republican powers-that-be don't mind, as the public becomes aware of the magnitude of his crimes they'll be forced to betray him out of self-preservation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident and may God continue to bless the United States of America.

Amen

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So much hyperbole, so little time.  I am watching football.  Well until the real Lions show up and it turns into a route. 

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