It’s relevant because the last time he talked money he wanted 150% of a league’s cap. Guy has a history of pricing himself out.
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QB Colin Kaepernick, Free Agent (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
His last year (2016) he had 1.2% interception rating for 6th best, between Aaron Rodgers and Matt Ryan. For reference Winston had a 4.6% interception rating in 2019 and was dead last in the league. You are making up stats to support your politics.
wgoldsph
Footballguy
Yes, which has absolutely nothing to do with how much he'd accept to play for the NFL.
If someone offered Bill Gates a job coding for some company just outside the fortune 500 he'd want an exorbitant salary or else it wouldn't be worth his time, right?
wgoldsph
Footballguy
Quoting myself from earlier in the thread. There is also a politics thread for Kaepernick in that section that might be more relevant for "rationale" discussion.
The Frankman
Footballguy
Even an emergency list workout is good, will get him exposure and word of mouth. Stunning that he couldn't even get that from teams.
wgoldsph
Footballguy
It's because he was so so so terrible didn't ya know? And his salary demands were so so so high!
Anarchy99
Footballguy
The Chargers have no plans to bring him in for a workout or tryout. They just added him to their list of available emergency quarterbacks. That is probably the babiest of baby steps.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
It would have been nice to see someone give Kaep a chance. His level of play would have helped to defuse this debate a little.
as-is its so politicized. It’s apparent he’s been blackballed, on that I’m not seeing any reason for debate.
But knowing whether or not dude could actually still play might have lended a little credibility to one side or the other.
what, we gonna still be having the “should a team give Kaep a chance” discussion in 2025?
I’m a Niners fan & Kaep fan, and I’m skeptical that if he slapped on pads he’d be winning football games today. He’s been out for some time, and let’s keep it real, he wasn’t all that great at the end anyway.
he coulda had a super bowl ring with better play calling, that’s for sure. I blame Harbaugh for that.
as for his skill set, he ran like a gazelle & had a cannon. That’s about it. He was not a good touch thrower, he wasn’t that good throwing on the run a la Mahomes, and he made some seriously horrible decisions that resulted in bad picks.
he was better than a lot of NFL backups & should have had a job. And the league would have been smarter to ignore his politics & let him play. By now he may have even played himself out of football.
the “Barbara Streisand effect” comes to mind here - the league likely lengthened Kaepernick controversy shelf-life & made things worse by the actions they’ve taken.
as-is its so politicized. It’s apparent he’s been blackballed, on that I’m not seeing any reason for debate.
But knowing whether or not dude could actually still play might have lended a little credibility to one side or the other.
what, we gonna still be having the “should a team give Kaep a chance” discussion in 2025?
I’m a Niners fan & Kaep fan, and I’m skeptical that if he slapped on pads he’d be winning football games today. He’s been out for some time, and let’s keep it real, he wasn’t all that great at the end anyway.
he coulda had a super bowl ring with better play calling, that’s for sure. I blame Harbaugh for that.
as for his skill set, he ran like a gazelle & had a cannon. That’s about it. He was not a good touch thrower, he wasn’t that good throwing on the run a la Mahomes, and he made some seriously horrible decisions that resulted in bad picks.
he was better than a lot of NFL backups & should have had a job. And the league would have been smarter to ignore his politics & let him play. By now he may have even played himself out of football.
the “Barbara Streisand effect” comes to mind here - the league likely lengthened Kaepernick controversy shelf-life & made things worse by the actions they’ve taken.
ICON211
Footballguy
I do see reason for debate on that. When he opted out of his contract he was a backup level QB. What team wants to put up with a circus because of their backup QB? If he was a better player he would never have been out of the league. I really do not believe the NFL blackballed him, but that no team wanted to put up with a sideshow surrounding their backup QB.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
It's the NFL. If he could play, he'd have a job. Check out some of the QB2's around the league. He was obviously better than most of those guys.
The circus wasn't as bad then as it is now.
Also, didn't he literally win his case against the NFL? So yeah - not really debatable once a court says "yep - blackballed" (paraphrasing, which I guess I have to say due to some folks being twitchy about using quotation marks
)
ICON211
Footballguy
I'm not saying he wasn't better than a lot of backup QBs. If he was a star player he would have had a job. The fact is he wasn't and wasn't worth the distraction. I guess OJ Simpson isn't a murderer because he was found not guilty too.It's the NFL. If he could play, he'd have a job. Check out some of the QB2's around the league. He was obviously better than most of those guys.
The circus wasn't as bad then as it is now.
Also, didn't he literally win his case against the NFL? So yeah - not really debatable once a court says "yep - blackballed" (paraphrasing, which I guess I have to say due to some folks being twitchy about using quotation marks
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
The OJ bit is a nice touch, though somewhat irrelevant.
I agree with you about ability vs distraction. The NFL is a lot like the "hot vs crazy" chart for girlfriends. They'll employ a guy so long as the talent level exceeds the distraction. I have no disagreement with you there.
The Frankman
Footballguy
Yeah people will argue the numbers either way but the talent and combo of size/speed and arm is what people gamble on all the time and still gamble on today. Unfortunately he was still early in his development and wasn't good enough to turn around a terrible 49ers squad (not sure many QBs could make that a .500 team that year). It's sad because we will never know how good he could have been; even if he does sign with a team eventually his his development has been permanently arrested. He'd need a lot of work to get up to speed on reading today's NFL defenses, and that's something he wasn't great at.
the spanker
Footballguy
Mystery Achiever
Footballguy
I don't think this is a relevant comparison.Those other QBs are probably not making the same money as he would and definitely aren't bringing the same level of distraction and controversy.There's no evidence he was blackballed. Other owners don't need to talk to, or wink at, each other to determine an unfavorable risk/reward.
But this discussion is probably for the PF thread.
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Weird because they settled the lawsuit, basically an admission of having locked him out.
then there’s this:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/apr/13/kaepernick-reid-blackballed-nfl-kneeling-anthem
Also how do you figure he was making more than the backups?
He literally wasn’t making anything at the time. Anywhere he signed, a given team would have negotiated a contract just like any other player.
Very confused by that assertion.
Many times lawsuits get settled because it is easier and more cost effective than actually playing out the lawsuit. Business wise settling was better and doesn't necessarily mean he was blackballed. There were other players that knelt that still had jobs and played. There are many factors on why he wasn't signed by anybody. Distraction vs ability vs cost to sign. It wasn't worth it.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Not disagreeing with the latter.
The former seems to be supported heavily by the emails that leaked.
teams all decided all at once that Kaepernick was too much of a distraction. That’s a hell of a coincidence.
Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
he wasn't very good at the end.....Denver offered him about 8 mil when they were in middle of the Siemien/Lynch/etc fiasco...a situation which even though he was terrible would have probably seen him as the "starter"...but Kap didn't want to be a "starter" only making 8 mil....(or was it he didn't want to battle those mediocre guys and show that he wasn't much better and actually not win the job?)...Kap told them to pound sand....wanted more money, thought he was worth more.....opted out....as it turns out, his bluff was called and he wasn't....as the rest of the league agreed.....(cue up lawsuit and settlement that he accepts even tho it was supposed to be about the "cause" and being blackballed, and maybe he shouldn't have accepted and drug it out as long as possible if it was about the cause and he really felt he was being blackballed....you know to prove the point and hammer it home and all....)....but anyway.....
fast forward and now all of a sudden....Kap is being pimped as worthy of "being brought in" as everybody tries to save face in the media......I'm not a big fan of the "he is better than most backups" ....I'm not so sure that is true.....and now we don't even know what Kap will agree too....."now" he is willing to fight to be a backup and be paid like it?....how will it look for a team to bring him in and then turn around and release him or not sign him, and have to answer those questions all day long, having to watch every little word you say when you justify not signing him.....who wants that...?...you can be the sacrificial lamb for the league and look like the good guys for awhile.....and then when it doesn't work out (which it probably won't) you are back to where you started and now "the" team that didn't sign him, and you have let the rest of the league "off the hook" so to speak.....while a team might be applauded for the effort and being willing to go out on the limb and be "that" team that took a chance.....not sure it (the circus) would ultimately be worth it.....I don't see the benefit of doing it.....and I still don't know if Kap himself even really wants to go through the circus of everybody seeing that his skills aren't that great....he kinda of already showed us that with the last "workout" mess.....
fast forward and now all of a sudden....Kap is being pimped as worthy of "being brought in" as everybody tries to save face in the media......I'm not a big fan of the "he is better than most backups" ....I'm not so sure that is true.....and now we don't even know what Kap will agree too....."now" he is willing to fight to be a backup and be paid like it?....how will it look for a team to bring him in and then turn around and release him or not sign him, and have to answer those questions all day long, having to watch every little word you say when you justify not signing him.....who wants that...?...you can be the sacrificial lamb for the league and look like the good guys for awhile.....and then when it doesn't work out (which it probably won't) you are back to where you started and now "the" team that didn't sign him, and you have let the rest of the league "off the hook" so to speak.....while a team might be applauded for the effort and being willing to go out on the limb and be "that" team that took a chance.....not sure it (the circus) would ultimately be worth it.....I don't see the benefit of doing it.....and I still don't know if Kap himself even really wants to go through the circus of everybody seeing that his skills aren't that great....he kinda of already showed us that with the last "workout" mess.....
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Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
I think this is a solid post....however Kap's role in the whole thing deserves a little more juice.....he wasn't very good at the end and turned down an offer from DEN......once he did that, many of the other owners saw that he wasn't willing to play and/or compete for a job at about 8 mil.....so many of them probably took him "off their board" so to speak.....if thats called "blackballing" I'm not sure that is fair.....but when he told Elway to pound sand at that offer, he pretty much burnt that bridge (Elway has said as much)....and other owners noticed.....so their inactivity in pursuing Kap is somewhat justified.....Elway was asked about revisiting Kap some time back even before all this.... and he said "he had his chance to come here"....
Mystery Achiever
Footballguy
-Settlement is not in any way an admission
-That's an opinion piece
- I said "probably" and we're comparing what he WOULD make, which, even if he no longer cares about "starter money" has to be more than at least some, esp. those who have never taken a snap in the NFL. But, fine, throw that out and the distraction/controversy issue is enough. You think it is a coincidence that 32 people think it is a bad business decision. I think it is the decision anyone who did well enough at business to afford to buy a team would easily arrive at independently.
I wanted to respond, but am bowing out now, because this discussion belongs in the other thread. (And I helped beat it death there, too.
) Sorry for any hijacking I contributed to.
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Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
when Kap said "no" to an 8 mil offer to come in and compete for the job in DEN.....31 other teams/owners noticed......
if he just told Elway to pound sand at a potential starting gig and 8 mil.....and I was already on the fence about his skill/bringing him in.....why would I waste the time throwing my hat in the ring...?
the narrative is that is blackballing......not sure that's the case....if I know I can't afford a BMW, I'm not gonna keep shopping for and test driving them...
if he just told Elway to pound sand at a potential starting gig and 8 mil.....and I was already on the fence about his skill/bringing him in.....why would I waste the time throwing my hat in the ring...?
the narrative is that is blackballing......not sure that's the case....if I know I can't afford a BMW, I'm not gonna keep shopping for and test driving them...
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Except for the leaked tapes/emails with owners openly discussing blackballing him for fear of Trump retribution you’d probably have an excellent point.-Settlement is not in any way an admission
-That's an opinion piece
- I said "probably" and we're comparing what he WOULD make, which, even if he no longer cares about "starter money" has to be more than at least some, esp. those who have never taken a snap in the NFL. But, fine, throw that out and the distraction/controversy issue is enough. You think it is a coincidence that 32 people think it is a bad business decision. I think it is the decision anyone who did well enough at business to afford to buy a team would easily arrive at independently.
I wanted to respond, but am bowing out now, because this discussion belongs in the other thread. (And I helped beat it death there, too.
Sorry for any hijacking I contributed to.
but since those exist, it’s a bit silly to pretend that they don’t, or that the NFL settled for any other reason.
whicb is why I said it’s probably not worth debating whether or not he was blackballed. Because he was.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
The Denver contract offer wasn’t relevant to the collusion case. He was still under contract by SF for $12M a year & they were allegedly asking him to take a pay cut.
this reeked of damage control. It gave plausible deniability to the league that Kaep was asking too much, which is the exact narrative you’re spinning here.
others agreed:
https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/08/nfl-broncos-john-elway-colin-kaepernick-contract-collusion-case
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wgoldsph
Footballguy
It's kind of stunning how @Hot Sauce Guy
keeps coming back with salient points and articles time and time again in this post and yet people still don't seem to see the obvious.
I think this point -
As for Kap - Blaine Gabbert //still has a job//. I'm better than Blane Gabbert and I played weak side linebacker in high school over ten years ago and rarely made it off the bench. No one will ever convince me that Gabbert is better than anyone who isn't Nathan Peterman.
keeps coming back with salient points and articles time and time again in this post and yet people still don't seem to see the obvious.
I think this point -
Is the funniest considering it's one guy against a huge organization full of billionaires who can throw lawyers at the problem like they're popcorn. Hell, the billionaires even had the president telling them that they were the good guys. Why on earth would you settle when you can stand up big and tall for all the idiots making videos about burning their jerseys and #### like that and tell them "not in our NFL!"Gally said:
As for Kap - Blaine Gabbert //still has a job//. I'm better than Blane Gabbert and I played weak side linebacker in high school over ten years ago and rarely made it off the bench. No one will ever convince me that Gabbert is better than anyone who isn't Nathan Peterman.
Many times It's a business decision based on money lost. Sometimes it is better to just pay a lower sum of money that continue and spend a lot more to win. It's a numbers game. I am not saying this is the right way to play it. I am just saying that many businesses will take this approach once they crunch the numbers.
GordonGekko
Footballguy
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wgoldsph
Footballguy
That media bit might have been true five years ago.
Find me a pro athlete now that doesn't use social media and I've got a bridge with your name on it.
wgoldsph
Footballguy
He didn't say they didn't use it. He said the biggest fear of the Front Offices are the players and public speaking. They have no real control and damage can be huge. Social Media is an added headache for the teams from that stand point as well.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
It will be interesting if teams start adding bonuses and incentives to contracts if players lay off social media during the season (or whatever timeline they want to use). If a team gives a player a $500K kicker not to post anything on social media (which they probably would have paid out anyway), let's see if players would keep from posting. Of course, the loophole will be if they make an alias account and still post anyway, but there are probably ways teams could find out.
Mystery Achiever
Footballguy
I think that would be a very bad move. There would be calls of censorship and hindering voices on social justice.
There are many jobs that prohibit or limit the use of social media. It is a term of employment. Why would this be any different?
GordonGekko
Footballguy
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Mystery Achiever
Footballguy
Just because you can doesn't mean you should. There are plenty of restrictions on what athletes can and can't do in their contracts.
There's a call now for public figures to use their platform to speak out for public good. You think squashing that is a good look?
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Change is hard. People are slow to adapt to change. Social good / inclusion is hard for some to adapt to.
the NASCAR confederate flag/Bubba Wallace incident has been eye opening. Tons of support thrown behind it by the racing circuit, race teams, sponsors and fans.
and a very vocal minority who want things to stay exactly the same, racism included.
Even if they aren’t racist, they want their sports free of politics, because that’s an easy way to live. Can’t see it, must not be happening. Ostrich head in the sand. But that doesn’t do anything for people who do suffer discrimination.
The world is waking up to a new reality where intolerance is no longer tolerated.
With NASCAR you see sponsors / networks getting behind it because they have little choice. Adapt or be left behind.
The NFL will have to make these difficult choices as well. As @Mystery Achiever pointed out, there’s a hand that feeds them. But at the end of the day, the networks also have a hand that feeds them (sponsors/advertizers) and those advertisers have millions of hands that feed them.
where society goes, eventually there shall go the NFL.
it’s a fascinating time to be alive.
IheartGuinness
Footballguy
Couldn't disagree with you more. I'd say that intolerance has increased exponentially in the last month and shows no signs of slowing down.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Yes, Intolerance of intolerance. It’s a paradox.
If BLM is what you’re referring to, It seems like the majority are showing that they are no longer tolerant of racism.
not sure why anyone sees that as a bad thing.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Don't get sucked down this rabbit hole, he is definitely one of those guys who says things like "the intolerant left".
IheartGuinness
Footballguy
Looting, rioting, innocent people being attacked in the streets, monuments being torn down, no respect for law and order...yeah, I'd say that's a bad thing. In fact, I'd say this is one of the worst moments in our country's history. But hey, if a violent communist insurrection and a Marxist coup is your idea of tolerance, that's good to know.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Maybe conflating peaceful protests with a handful of anarchists isn’t the most logical approach to judging a movement.
Funny, I don’t recall saying any of that. Can you maybe use the quote feature to quote me saying “violent communist insurrection and a Marxist coup” is “my idea of tolerance”?
that’d be very helpful, thanks.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
IheartGuinness
Footballguy
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