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Don Quixote

Franchise's All-Time Lineups: Currently: Fictional All-Star Lineup

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I've put together about 5 or 6 of these while watching TV at night or traveling for work (hey, it's the offseason).  Maybe I'll keep them going; maybe I won't.  If I start to fall off (ETA: or even if I don't, the more, merrier), welcome to keep this going and offer up your own teams.

I started thinking how many players on the currents Nats' squad would make the lineup of the Expos/Nats all-time lineup, and got going from there.  In addition to Nats, I've got Yankees, Mets, Orioles, Braves, and Phillies in the can.  My rule is that they must have appeared on Baseball Reference franchise list of common players at position at least once.  For example, see for the Expos/Nationals.  So, Ryan Zimmerman can qualify at both 1B and 3B.  While Tim Wallach played some 1B, he only appears on the positional listing at 3B, so he could only qualify as 3B on the lineup.

I'm not doing any sort of order; just what piques my interest.  And no set criteria. Partially who I would associate with the franchise and that position the most; partially peak performance; sometimes because I have to respect the 'stache.  I will be inconsistent at times.

Edited by Don Quixote
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First one of these....

Montreal Expos/Washington Nationals

C - Gary Carter.  Probably the easiest pick on this list.  Not even a close #2.

1B - Ryan Zimmerman.  His best years were at 3B, but I’ll put him here as I think better options for 3B to build the lineup.  Big Cat Galarraga an honorable mention and probably the best if just looking at years at 1B.

2B - Jose Vidro. Had some good years, but probably the weakest player on this squad. But I’m not sure a better 2B option -- next best option that I can think of is Delino DeShields.  Nats have mostly churned through 2Bs.

SS - Trea Turner.  Not quite the franchise longevity of some on the list, but high peak performance.

3B - Anthony Rendon. Rendon versus Tim Wallach the toughest choice here. Wallach had the longevity and had a few really good years, but Rendon just finished his third year in the top 10 in NL MVP vote (and has another year just outside the top 10).

LF - Tim Raines

CF - Andre Dawson

RF - Vladimir Guerrero

Bryce Harper and Larry Walker (who I expect will find a place if I ever get to the Rockies) deserve an honorable mention for the OF (and Soto may work his way into the list some day), but I have to go with the three HOFers.

SP - Max Scherzer

SP - Stephen Strasburg

SP - Steve Rogers

SP - Dennis Martinez 

SP - Pedro Martinez

RP - Jeff Reardon

Pitchers seemed pretty clear to me in putting this together.  Next group of pitchers probably includes players like Livan Hernandez, Gio Gonzalez, and Jordan Zimmerman, but I’m sure I’m forgetting some Expos who deserve a mention.  (I expect Pedro may get another mention if I get to the Red Sox.)  Not a whole lot of great RP options, but Reardon had some good years for the Expos.

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I think the Jays would have a pretty nice lineup. :thumbup:

...but I'm too lazy to submit one.

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1 hour ago, falguy said:

I think the Jays would have a pretty nice lineup. :thumbup:

...but I'm too lazy to submit one.

As the first to respond, maybe I'll put Blue Jays to the next one in my list to think about.

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18 minutes ago, Don Quixote said:

As the first to respond, maybe I'll put Blue Jays to the next one in my list to think about.

I haven't put a ton of research into this but i have Delgado, Alomar, Fernandez, Bautista in the infield, Barfield White and Bell in OF (maybe Donaldson at 3rd and Jose in the field?)  Cant think of much behind the plate - Whitt, I guess. Steib, Morris, Cone, Clemens SP (other good ones Im sure I'm missing) Henke and Ward in the pen.  

Pretty sure I'm missing some but that's my initial names off top of my head.

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8 minutes ago, falguy said:

I haven't put a ton of research into this but i have Delgado, Alomar, Fernandez, Bautista in the infield, Barfield White and Bell in OF (maybe Donaldson at 3rd and Jose in the field?)  Cant think of much behind the plate - Whitt, I guess. Steib, Morris, Cone, Clemens SP (other good ones Im sure I'm missing) Henke and Ward in the pen.  

Pretty sure I'm missing some but that's my initial names off top of my head.

What do you think @Northern Voice ?

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Re: Expos/Nats

I'd probably go with Rendon too but Tim Wallach was a very good (and underrated) player

Marquis Grissom would be a good fourth OF

Franchise pitching isn't very deep.  John Patterson only had one good season before blowing out his elbow but he's still in the franchise's top 50 in career WAR.

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Just now, Eephus said:

Re: Expos/Nats

I'd probably go with Rendon too but Tim Wallach was a very good (and underrated) player

Marquis Grissom would be a good fourth OF

Franchise pitching isn't very deep.  John Patterson only had one good season before blowing out his elbow but he's still in the franchise's top 50 in career WAR.

Agree on all counts.  Wallach is pretty underrated -- he had a couple of MVP Top 10 years in his own right.  If I was not sticking with my positional rule, I would have put him at 1B, since he played enough there that could he hold it down, but it felt like that would be cheating. 

It surprised me a bit how little there was pitching depth-wise.  I went in thinking Pedro was not with Montreal long enough (and not Pedro enough, besides 1997), but I could not convince myself to substitute him for anyone else.

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Jeff Reardon is the career SV leader but Tim Burke was an objectively better pitcher over a similar number of franchise IP.  Burke has that crazy WIS cookie season in 1987 where he was unhittable.

If you need a lefty, Jeff Fassero had his best years in Quebec. 

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2 hours ago, Northern Voice said:

Delgado has to be at 1B but hard to leave off Olerud, McGriff, EE

My first thought was Johnny O (loved that guy) and then Mcgriff . Then I remembered Carlos and had to put him ahead.  We could put EE as our DH.  of course that leaves off Winfield.

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Thinking of the Red Sox and the third OF would be tough(assuming Teddy and Yaz as 1-2) Manny? Betts? Rice/Lynn/Tony C/Speaker??? Maybe Yaz isn't the obvious #2 after all :oldunsure:  

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2 minutes ago, Kraft... said:

Thinking of the Red Sox and the third OF would be tough(assuming Teddy and Yaz as 1-2) Manny? Betts? Rice/Lynn/Tony C/Speaker??? Maybe Yaz isn't the obvious #2 after all :oldunsure:  

Not there yet, but what will be tough is I'm breaking OF into LF, RF, and CF.  Red Sox are weighted to LF.

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6 minutes ago, Don Quixote said:

Not there yet, but what will be tough is I'm breaking OF into LF, RF, and CF.  Red Sox are weighted to LF.

Yeah that's even tougher. If you had to break them out like that I'd lean Teddy- LF, Speaker-CF, Betts-RF 

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5 hours ago, Kraft... said:

Thinking of the Red Sox and the third OF would be tough(assuming Teddy and Yaz as 1-2) Manny? Betts? Rice/Lynn/Tony C/Speaker??? Maybe Yaz isn't the obvious #2 after all :oldunsure:  

Tris Speaker might be the toughest case to split between all-time teams outside of the modern vagabonds such as Gary Sheffield. 

Speaker basically had two separate Hall of Fame careers with different clubs.  He  was a great player for the Red Sox until he got traded before his age 28 season in 1916.  He went on to have eleven equally great years in Cleveland. 

 

 

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Yankees may give rise to a bit more debate....

New York Yankees

C Yogi Berra. Yankees had a pretty remarkable catcher run -- Bill Dickey to Yogi to Elston Howard to Thurman Munson, with only a couple years of not having one of those lead in games catched from 1929-1979.  Posada would get a recency bump too, but not quite on the level of the others.

1B Lou Gehrig - Easy pick, but a nice round of applause for Don Mattingly and his sideburns.

2B Willie Randolph. Considered sticking with Murderer’s Row and Lazzeri here (and Cano in the mix too), but, given recency bias, Randolph is first one that pops in my head when I think of a Yankees' 2B (and WAR numbers give edge to Randolph too).

SS Derek Jeter. Jeter an obvious pick.  Scooter for the color announcer.

3B Graig Nettles. Tough choice between Nettles and ARod, but I’ll give the edge to Nettles because I can put ARod at DH.

LF Mickey Mantle

CF Joe DiMaggio

RF Babe Ruth

DH Alex Rodriguez

Pretty easy three for the OF, although Yankees have other options that would make similar lists for most squads (e.g., Dave Winfield, Reggie Jackson, Earle Combs, Bernie Williams).  Putting DiMaggio in center over Mantle. Based on my rules, Mantle qualifies based on LF in 1966 to avoid the tough choice of leaving one off the team. I think I would have gone Roy White if going on someone who spent most of their Yankee time in LF.

SP Whitey Ford

SP Ron Guidry

SP Lefty Gomez

SP Red Ruffing

SP Andy Pettitte

RP Mariano Rivera

Really tough five for SPs, as I think many just off the list are all around the same range.  Bob Shawkey, Waite Hoyt, Mel Stottlemyre, Mike Mussina, and CC Sabathia are some others that could be substituted here.  Mariano a clear pick at closer, but adding Goose Goosage, Sparky Lyle, and Dave Righetti would form an elite group of relievers.

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For the Yankees, I would put Reggie over Arod for DH. And Nettles stays at 3rd. Sorry Arod.

I love Yogi, but could easily be talked into Munson as the catcher as well. He's getting a nice HoF veteran's committee (or whatever it's now called) push this year, and his advanced stats make a pretty good case for him.

Love Randolph. Really underrated player. Assuming he stays at second, in 3 or 4 years, Torres will be the obvious pick here. 

For one game, 1978's Guidry gets the ball. Good call on him. 

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23 minutes ago, jwb said:

For the Yankees, I would put Reggie over Arod for DH. And Nettles stays at 3rd. Sorry Arod.

I love Yogi, but could easily be talked into Munson as the catcher as well. He's getting a nice HoF veteran's committee (or whatever it's now called) push this year, and his advanced stats make a pretty good case for him.

Love Randolph. Really underrated player. Assuming he stays at second, in 3 or 4 years, Torres will be the obvious pick here. 

For one game, 1978's Guidry gets the ball. Good call on him. 

On DH, my arbitrary rule is that they must have appeared at the position at least once on the BREF most common starter at a position for a year list.  See here for the Yankees.  So, Reggie would not qualify there for me under my arbitrary rule.  I'm taking into account their entire tenure at the franchise (so, I'm taking ARod's 3B numbers into account in picking him for the DH spot), but I need that hook to put them at the position. 

Edited by Don Quixote
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10 hours ago, Eephus said:

Tris Speaker might be the toughest case to split between all-time teams outside of the modern vagabonds such as Gary Sheffield. 

Speaker basically had two separate Hall of Fame careers with different clubs.  He  was a great player for the Red Sox until he got traded before his age 28 season in 1916.  He went on to have eleven equally great years in Cleveland. 

 

 

Sox let Speaker go after 2015 and Ruth after 2019 not a good window for management :kicksrock: 

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1 hour ago, jwb said:

Love Randolph. Really underrated player. 

Agree and this is coming from a Red Sox fan :oldunsure: 

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1 hour ago, Kraft... said:

Sox let Speaker go after 2015 and Ruth after 2019 not a good window for management :kicksrock: 

No wonder Dombrowski was fired

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1 hour ago, Eephus said:

No wonder Dombrowski was fired

ha, centuries are hard(I guess :shrug: )

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7 hours ago, Don Quixote said:

2B Willie Randolph. Considered sticking with Murderer’s Row and Lazzeri here (and Cano in the mix too), but, given recency bias, Randolph is first one that pops in my head when I think of a Yankees' 2B (and WAR numbers give edge to Randolph too).

Randolph vs Lazzeri is a tough call.  Bill James ranks them #17 and #19 respectively in the 2001 edition of the Historical Abstract.  Lazzeri has higher OPS+ and more oWAR while Randolph is the beneficiary of 17 dWAR as a Yankee.  Defensive metrics from a century ago are even more fallible than modern ones. 

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2 hours ago, Eephus said:

Randolph vs Lazzeri is a tough call.  Bill James ranks them #17 and #19 respectively in the 2001 edition of the Historical Abstract.  Lazzeri has higher OPS+ and more oWAR while Randolph is the beneficiary of 17 dWAR as a Yankee.  Defensive metrics from a century ago are even more fallible than modern ones. 

That is a good point on dWAR. Randolph vs. Lazzeri certainly the toughest pick. Genuine toss-up for me.

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31 minutes ago, Don Quixote said:

That is a good point on dWAR. Randolph vs. Lazzeri certainly the toughest pick. Genuine toss-up for me.

Joe Gordon only played seven years in the Bronx and lost two more to WWII but he had higher peak value than either Randolph or Lazzeri.

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On 11/19/2019 at 1:45 PM, falguy said:

I haven't put a ton of research into this but i have Delgado, Alomar, Fernandez, Bautista in the infield, Barfield White and Bell in OF (maybe Donaldson at 3rd and Jose in the field?)  Cant think of much behind the plate - Whitt, I guess. Steib, Morris, Cone, Clemens SP (other good ones Im sure I'm missing) Henke and Ward in the pen.  

Pretty sure I'm missing some but that's my initial names off top of my head.

Vernon Wells over White?  

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Great thread idea!

I'll make a run at my favorite team, the St Louis Cardinals:

C Ted Simmons - really, really, really wanted to put Yadier Molina here, but IMO Simba is a forgotten great of the 1970s, probably because he played for so many ####ty teams and his power numbers look weak compared to today's players.  Both are HOFers, but Simmons was the better player at peak

1B Albert Pujols - best right-handed hitter I've ever seen, could have been a corner outfielder, played a little 3B early, team moved him to 1B to reduce his injury risk

2B Rogers Hornsby - team has had almost a century to top him, still haven't found the guy

SS Ozzie Smith - played in the right era for him when defense and speed still mattered, a dear personal favorite, got goosebumps when I got to shake his hand at Team Of Dreams this year in Iowa

3B Ken Boyer - I fully expect Tommy Edman to displace Boyer someday, but for now we'll go with the 11-time All-Star and 1964 MVP

LF Lou Brock - 2nd in franchise in hits, 2nd all-time in MLB in stolen bases

CF Curt Flood - great player who gave up a lot for the greater good of player rights, probably less talented than Jim Edmonds but Edmonds was a #### to me at Team Of Dreams so #### that guy

RF Stan Musial - played more games at 1B, but won MVP playing RF and felt Pujols at 1B was a better call than Enos Slaughter or George Hendrick in RF
 

SP1 - Bob Gibson

SP2 - Dizzy Dean

SP3 - Adam Wainwright

SP4 - Harry Brecheen

SP5 - Chris Carpenter

CL - Todd Worrell


Really wanted to find room for Bob Forsch (seeing his no-hitter at Busch II in 83 is still one of the greatest thrills I've had as a sports fan), but Carp was an ace for a lot longer.  

For this exercise, I'm only considering performance as Cardinals as the player's career.  So SPs like Steve Carlton get cut, and closers like Dennis Eckersley, Lee Smith, and Bruce Sutter don't make it.  Izzy had a lot more saves than Worrell, but Worrell had a lot more value as a player and was more dominant at peak.   
 

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8 minutes ago, Bruce Dickinson said:

SP1 - Bob Gibson

SP2 - Dizzy Dean

SP3 - Adam Wainwright

SP4 - Harry Brecheen

SP5 - Chris Carpenter

CL - Todd Worrell

Jesse Haines is a Hall of Famer from the 1920s and 30s with 210 wins in a Cardinals.  He's a textbook accumulator who probably wouldn't be inducted today. 

It's a tough choice between Pop and Carpenter.  The latter has a Cy Young Award, which didn't exist when Haines played but you could make the case he was the top NL pitcher in 1927.

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3 minutes ago, Bruce Dickinson said:

Great thread idea!

I'll make a run at my favorite team, the St Louis Cardinals:

C Ted Simmons - really, really, really wanted to put Yadier Molina here, but IMO Simba is a forgotten great of the 1970s, probably because he played for so many ####ty teams and his power numbers look weak compared to today's players.  Both are HOFers, but Simmons was the better player at peak

1B Albert Pujols - best right-handed hitter I've ever seen, could have been a corner outfielder, played a little 3B early, team moved him to 1B to reduce his injury risk

2B Rogers Hornsby - team has had almost a century to top him, still haven't found the guy

SS Ozzie Smith - played in the right era for him when defense and speed still mattered, a dear personal favorite, got goosebumps when I got to shake his hand at Team Of Dreams this year in Iowa

3B Ken Boyer - I fully expect Tommy Edman to displace Boyer someday, but for now we'll go with the 11-time All-Star and 1964 MVP

LF Lou Brock - 2nd in franchise in hits, 2nd all-time in MLB in stolen bases

CF Curt Flood - great player who gave up a lot for the greater good of player rights, probably less talented than Jim Edmonds but Edmonds was a #### to me at Team Of Dreams so #### that guy

RF Stan Musial - played more games at 1B, but won MVP playing RF and felt Pujols at 1B was a better call than Enos Slaughter or George Hendrick in RF
 

SP1 - Bob Gibson

SP2 - Dizzy Dean

SP3 - Adam Wainwright

SP4 - Harry Brecheen

SP5 - Chris Carpenter

CL - Todd Worrell


Really wanted to find room for Bob Forsch (seeing his no-hitter at Busch II in 83 is still one of the greatest thrills I've had as a sports fan), but Carp was an ace for a lot longer.  

For this exercise, I'm only considering performance as Cardinals as the player's career.  So SPs like Steve Carlton get cut, and closers like Dennis Eckersley, Lee Smith, and Bruce Sutter don't make it.  Izzy had a lot more saves than Worrell, but Worrell had a lot more value as a player and was more dominant at peak.   
 

Good list!  I haven't had a chance to post today, and will have to think if I'd substitute anyone else.  I updated the thread title. 

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37 minutes ago, Long Ball Larry said:
On 11/19/2019 at 10:45 AM, falguy said:

I haven't put a ton of research into this but i have Delgado, Alomar, Fernandez, Bautista in the infield, Barfield White and Bell in OF (maybe Donaldson at 3rd and Jose in the field?)  Cant think of much behind the plate - Whitt, I guess. Steib, Morris, Cone, Clemens SP (other good ones Im sure I'm missing) Henke and Ward in the pen.  

Pretty sure I'm missing some but that's my initial names off top of my head.

Vernon Wells over White?  

Clemens, Morris and Cone only played two seasons each for the Blue Jays. 

Halladay and Hentgen won CYAs in Canada.  Jimmy Key had some good seasons there as well.  Steib is a no brainer. 

The fifth starter is the tough one.  You could go with one of the rentals I guess.  Boomer Wells played in Toronto for a good spell.  I'd probably go with original Blue Jay Jim Clancy but he's not very exciting.  Juan Guzman was electric when he first came up.

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7 minutes ago, Eephus said:

Clemens, Morris and Cone only played two seasons each for the Blue Jays. 

Halladay and Hentgen won CYAs in Canada.  Jimmy Key had some good seasons there as well.  Steib is a no brainer. 

The fifth starter is the tough one.  You could go with one of the rentals I guess.  Boomer Wells played in Toronto for a good spell.  I'd probably go with original Blue Jay Jim Clancy but he's not very exciting.  Juan Guzman was electric when he first came up.

Cant believe I forgot Doc. :wall:

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I can't argue with anybody on Dickson's Cards team.

Here's my Mets squad.  Probably the weakest one that I've assembled so far (including teams still to come).  Growing up in NJ, I watched a lot of Mets and Kiner's Korner back in the late-80s.

New York Mets

C Mike Piazza. Gary Carter was similarly great in NY, but I’ll give the edge to Piazza due to length of time in NY.

1B Keith Hernandez - Easy pick here, but I’ll give a nod to Ed Kranepool's incredible run of mediocrity for 18 years.

2B Edgardo Alfonzo - Not a whole lot at 2B.

SS Jose Reyes. Bud Harrelson coming off the bench.

3B David Wright. Another clear one, but HoJo was solid on the 80s teams.

LF Cleon Jones 

CF Carlos Beltran

RF Darryl Strawberry

Beltran and Straw seem easy picks for the OF.  Cleon Jones gets a bump for his role in 1969 (shoe polish, FTW), but I think he's clearly best on the numbers too.  Kevin McReynolds had a good run in the 80s, but not quite up to Jones' level.  Rusty Staub an honorable mention for the second time.

 

SP Tom Seaver

SP Jerry Koosman

SP Dwight Gooden

SP Sid Fernandez

SP Jacob DeGrom

RP Tug McGraw

Only starter I hesitated on here was Sid Fernandez, but I think he was better, longer for the Mets than Darling or Cone (and underrated relative to those two).  I think Darling would be the popular pick, and he was certainly flashier, but Sid just got the job done. Matlack another option.  John Franco has the save total, but I don’t think he was as good as McGraw. Jesse Orosco another possibility.

Edited by Don Quixote
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With all due respect to guys like Seaver and Soto, the Reds all time team will have a top 5 (2nd best?) lineup and very mediocre pitching.

One of the reasons they will fare well in this is they have some of the very best of all time at the weaker hitting positions. Getting Bench at catcher and prime Joe Morgan at 2nd makes the lineup crazy. Frank Robinson and Votto had some crazy stretches offensively. You also have some elite hall of famers from the early years if you wanted to include them. Pretty much all of those good players are hitters too. 

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3 hours ago, cheese said:

With all due respect to guys like Seaver and Soto, the Reds all time team will have a top 5 (2nd best?) lineup and very mediocre pitching.

One of the reasons they will fare well in this is they have some of the very best of all time at the weaker hitting positions. Getting Bench at catcher and prime Joe Morton at 2nd makes the lineup crazy. Frank Robinson and Votto had some crazy stretches offensively. You also have some elite hall of famers from the early years if you wanted to include them. Pretty much all of those good players are hitters too. 

Joe Morton

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I will do the Phillies, if you don't mind:

C - Carlos Ruiz: not a lot of great options to choose from, but i will take the guy who handled the staff amazingly, was a real leader, and knocked up his wife on the night of Halladay's perfect game.

1B - Ryan Howard: gotta give him his due for the 5 years when he was completely out of control.  the achilles tear was some sad ####

2B - Chase Utley: There are some other guys you might be able to argue, but he was just a natural ballplayer

SS - Jimmy Rollins: Franchise hit leader, amazing glove, MVP, great all around player

3B - Mike Schmidt: duh

LF - Billy Hamilton: the original terror on the bases named Billy Hamilton

CF - Richie Ashburn: multi-time all-star, great batting average and defense, and i almost bought a house next to his grave a few years ago

RF - Chuck Klein: dude could mash like Foxx, Ruth and Gehrig at the same time

SP - Robin Roberts: Lotta homers, but he was a gamer.  7 straight AS games and pitched in the WS with the whiz kids

SP - Curt Schilling: before the bloody sock and the crazed rants, he was a workhorse for some weird teams

SP - Pete Alexander: 3 straight 30-win seasons, pitched in first Phils WS, led league in IP in 6 of his 7 years with the Phils

SP - Cole Hamels: Only great pitcher in the 08 WS team, talent who really honed his craft

SP - Steve Carlton: oh yeah, that guy.

RP - Tug McGraw: clinched that first WS and had the longevity with the Phils, but if we want to keep it one team per player, I would be perfectly happy with Bedrock

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12 hours ago, Scut Farkus said:

I will do the Phillies, if you don't mind:

C - Carlos Ruiz: not a lot of great options to choose from, but i will take the guy who handled the staff amazingly, was a real leader, and knocked up his wife on the night of Halladay's perfect game.

1B - Ryan Howard: gotta give him his due for the 5 years when he was completely out of control.  the achilles tear was some sad ####

2B - Chase Utley: There are some other guys you might be able to argue, but he was just a natural ballplayer

SS - Jimmy Rollins: Franchise hit leader, amazing glove, MVP, great all around player

3B - Mike Schmidt: duh

LF - Billy Hamilton: the original terror on the bases named Billy Hamilton

CF - Richie Ashburn: multi-time all-star, great batting average and defense, and i almost bought a house next to his grave a few years ago

RF - Chuck Klein: dude could mash like Foxx, Ruth and Gehrig at the same time

SP - Robin Roberts: Lotta homers, but he was a gamer.  7 straight AS games and pitched in the WS with the whiz kids

SP - Curt Schilling: before the bloody sock and the crazed rants, he was a workhorse for some weird teams

SP - Pete Alexander: 3 straight 30-win seasons, pitched in first Phils WS, led league in IP in 6 of his 7 years with the Phils

SP - Cole Hamels: Only great pitcher in the 08 WS team, talent who really honed his craft

SP - Steve Carlton: oh yeah, that guy.

RP - Tug McGraw: clinched that first WS and had the longevity with the Phils, but if we want to keep it one team per player, I would be perfectly happy with Bedrock

I had a draft Phillies write-up going. Pretty similar to yours.

C Darren Daulton

1B Dick Allen - Allen not going to make 3B over Schmidt, but he qualifies at 1B under my rules.  I’ll give him the edge over Ryan Howard.  

2B Chase Utley

3B Mike Schmidt

SS Jimmy Rollins

LF Ed Delahanty - Died getting swept over Niagara Falls, after being kicked off by a train conductor for drunk and disorderly conduct. Put that on his HOF plaque.

CF Richie Ashburn

RF Chuck Klein

 

SP Steve Carlton

SP Robin Roberts

SP Pete Alexander

SP Curt Schilling

SP Cole Hamels

RP Tug McGraw

Top four seemed pretty easy; last SP spot gave me some trouble, but I’ll go with Hamels’ longevity. Toss-up between Hamels and Jim Bunning for me.  

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5 hours ago, Don Quixote said:

I had a draft Phillies write-up going. Pretty similar to yours.

C Darren Daulton

1B Dick Allen - Allen not going to make 3B over Schmidt, but he qualifies at 1B under my rules.  I’ll give him the edge over Ryan Howard.  

2B Chase Utley

3B Mike Schmidt

SS Jimmy Rollins

LF Ed Delahanty - Died getting swept over Niagara Falls, after being kicked off by a train conductor for drunk and disorderly conduct. Put that on his HOF plaque.

CF Richie Ashburn

RF Chuck Klein

 

SP Steve Carlton

SP Robin Roberts

SP Pete Alexander

SP Curt Schilling

SP Cole Hamels

RP Tug McGraw

Top four seemed pretty easy; last SP spot gave me some trouble, but I’ll go with Hamels’ longevity. Toss-up between Hamels and Jim Bunning for me.  

Delahanty is probably the right call. He played a few different positions, which is part of why I went with Hamilton, but I also thought he played fewer seasons for the Phillies than he actually did.

i definitely wanted dick Allen in there and would make him the next man up.  On sheer all around talent, he would go ahead of howard, but in terms of actual achievement, I have a hard time

daulton was certainly considered and he had a couple sexy seasons, a couple sexy wives, and a ton of sexy sexy conspiracy theories, but I gotta go with chooch’s presence and leadership.

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Here is my Astros team

C   Craig Biggio

1B  Jeff Bagwell

2B   Jose Altuve

SS   Carlos Correa

3B    Alex Bregman

LF   Jose Cruz

CF   Cesar Cedeno

RF   George Springer

DH   Lance Berkman

P  Nolan Ryan

P   JR Richard

P   Roger Clemens 

P   Randy Johnson 

P   Mike Scott

Closer Billy Wagner

 

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17 hours ago, Scut Farkus said:

Delahanty is probably the right call. He played a few different positions, which is part of why I went with Hamilton, but I also thought he played fewer seasons for the Phillies than he actually did.

i definitely wanted dick Allen in there and would make him the next man up.  On sheer all around talent, he would go ahead of howard, but in terms of actual achievement, I have a hard time

daulton was certainly considered and he had a couple sexy seasons, a couple sexy wives, and a ton of sexy sexy conspiracy theories, but I gotta go with chooch’s presence and leadership.

Definitely close on all three. I was surprised how many I was putting on from the last 20 years or so, given their lengthy history. Allen and Daulton over Howard and Ruiz in part to diversify.

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5 hours ago, NREC34 said:

Here is my Astros team

C   Craig Biggio

1B  Jeff Bagwell

2B   Jose Altuve

SS   Carlos Correa

3B    Alex Bregman

LF   Jose Cruz

CF   Cesar Cedeno

RF   George Springer

DH   Lance Berkman

P  Nolan Ryan

P   JR Richard

P   Roger Clemens 

P   Randy Johnson 

P   Mike Scott

Closer Billy Wagner

 

 

Roy Oswalt and Larry Dierker should be in the rotation instead of Clemens and Johnson.   Johnson only played a half season in Houston.

Jim Wynn probably has a couple more years in the starting lineup before getting passed by Springer.

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34 minutes ago, Eephus said:

 

Roy Oswalt and Larry Dierker should be in the rotation instead of Clemens and Johnson.   Johnson only played a half season in Houston.

Jim Wynn probably has a couple more years in the starting lineup before getting passed by Springer.

Don Wilson was a pretty good pitcher too, I’ve heard. 

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5 hours ago, Eephus said:

 

Roy Oswalt and Larry Dierker should be in the rotation instead of Clemens and Johnson.   Johnson only played a half season in Houston.

Jim Wynn probably has a couple more years in the starting lineup before getting passed by Springer.

I would make those changes too. Berkman does not look like he qualified at DH based on my rules of going by BREF (Astros have a pretty limited set of options since they have only been in the AL for about 7 years).  Berkman certainly deserves a spot, but I think I’d go Evan Gattis based on actual positional starter at DH.

 

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For @Uruk-Hai, here’s my O’s team.

 

Baltimore Orioles/St. Louis Browns

C Matt Wieters - O’s don’t really have too much here.  Rick Dempsey has him in years, but he was never really better than average to me.  Wieters at least had a couple of years of elite production.

1B Eddie Murray - Easy pick.

2B Bobby Grich - Roberto Alomar not enough years in Baltimore to be a quintessential Oriole to me.  The only thing that makes me hesitate on Bobby Grich is that I associate him more with the Angels. Davey Johnson would be the option that I associate most with the O’s, but not quite the production of Grich or Alomar.

SS Cal Ripken - No-brainer here.  But O’s have some strong SS options in Mark Belanger, and Bobby Wallace from the St. Louis Browns days.

3B Brooks Robinson - Ditto.

LF Boog Powell - More time at 1B, but qualifies here so I can get him and Murray.

CF Adam Jones - Close between him and Paul Blair.

RF Frank Robinson - Another easy pick.

DH Harold Baines - Somehow a HOFer.

 

SP Jim Palmer

SP Mike Mussina 

SP Dave McNally

SP Scott McGregor

SP Urban Shocker - Good numbers on some bad Browns teams.

RP Satchel Paige - Wanted another St. Louis Brown on here. Not the best based on his time with franchise, but felt like I had to select him.  Beats out Gregg Olson and Zack Britton.

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2 hours ago, Don Quixote said:

For @Uruk-Hai, here’s my O’s team.

 

Baltimore Orioles/St. Louis Browns

C Matt Wieters - O’s don’t really have too much here.  Rick Dempsey has him in years, but he was never really better than average to me.  Wieters at least had a couple of years of elite production.

1B Eddie Murray - Easy pick.

2B Bobby Grich - Roberto Alomar not enough years in Baltimore to be a quintessential Oriole to me.  The only thing that makes me hesitate on Bobby Grich is that I associate him more with the Angels. Davey Johnson would be the option that I associate most with the O’s, but not quite the production of Grich or Alomar.

SS Cal Ripken - No-brainer here.  But O’s have some strong SS options in Mark Belanger, and Bobby Wallace from the St. Louis Browns days.

3B Brooks Robinson - Ditto.

LF Boog Powell - More time at 1B, but qualifies here so I can get him and Murray.

CF Adam Jones - Close between him and Paul Blair.

RF Frank Robinson - Another easy pick.

DH Harold Baines - Somehow a HOFer.

 

SP Jim Palmer

SP Mike Mussina 

SP Dave McNally

SP Scott McGregor

SP Urban Shocker - Good numbers on some bad Browns teams.

RP Satchel Paige - Wanted another St. Louis Brown on here. Not the best based on his time with franchise, but felt like I had to select him.  Beats out Gregg Olson and Zack Britton.

For some reason, I forgot all about Weiters. He's the right call, I think. I'd also take Chris Hoiles or Gus Triandos over Dempsey, who just wasn't very good.

3B has to be Machado. I love Brooks, but Manny was a much better player.

I wonder how Adam Jones and Blair compare using advanced stats. My sense is that Blair may have been better (before Ken Brett shattered his face with a pitch) but that may be because I idolized him as a kid. Don't forget Al Bumbry, either.

I'd put Mike Flanagan over Shocker, but that's only because I saw one play and not the other.

Good job, DQ!

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7 hours ago, Uruk-Hai said:

For some reason, I forgot all about Weiters. He's the right call, I think. I'd also take Chris Hoiles or Gus Triandos over Dempsey, who just wasn't very good.

3B has to be Machado. I love Brooks, but Manny was a much better player.

I wonder how Adam Jones and Blair compare using advanced stats. My sense is that Blair may have been better (before Ken Brett shattered his face with a pitch) but that may be because I idolized him as a kid. Don't forget Al Bumbry, either.

I'd put Mike Flanagan over Shocker, but that's only because I saw one play and not the other.

Good job, DQ!

I went back and forth between Blair and Jones. Blair has him in career WAR, with a boost in defensive WAR. Jones has better offensive WAR numbers.

Machado would have needed some more years in BAL to overtake Brooks at 3B for me.

Flanagan would have been next at SP, but Urban Shocker has some pretty insane numbers for the Browns in the 1920s. 

Edited by Don Quixote
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