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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (16 Viewers)

AAABatteries said:
In a little bit of fairness to her, I think that was right about the time when things really started shutting down.  But it does go to show the mindset of a lot of people just a few weeks ago and I'm sure a lot still.

My BIL works for an airport where they actually fly folks from other countries somewhat routinely that are infected with Ebola and other diseases.  He seemed really laid back about it and then called me yesterday and said 3 guys at work have tested positive and he's was around 2 of them a couple weeks back.  He said all 3 had mild symptoms and he didn't seem that concerned.  I mean, I'm not at a 10/10 on the panic meter by no means but he seemed to be around a 2. 
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Huh about the BIL. Wish I was that cool. I'm not and wasn't judging the older folks, by the way. As a matter of fact, my posts tend to split the middle of not scoldy but very cautious myself and wishing others would heed so we can get out of this quicker. But I think I judge less than others because I understand the longing for human companionship. But The Villages are a bit legendary for their social interactions (and promiscuity, but you didn't hear it from me) and I was just picturing no distancing whatsoever leading to a demographic that is very susceptible to this virus.

Just concern.

 
AAABatteries said:
On Mach 14th my Step-mom and I had this text exchange:

Me: "Are you guys staying indoors?"

Her: "Not really.  There are no cases in our county reported.  In all honesty, I think it's being blown out of proportion."

My reaction:  :mellow:
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If anyone wanted to bag on case counts for a legitimate reason, it's this: the way case counts are reported makes A LOT of people mentally picture COVID cases as "ants marching". As if there is ground uncovered by COVID, and COVID hasn't had time to make it somewhere yet. It's not well understood by the public that COVID really is everywhere, and that local case counts are correlated with local level of testing efforts.

 
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scorchy said:
Yeah, I've worked for HHS OIG for more than 20 years.  It's never not interesting, but the last few weeks have been wild.  I personally conducted six of the interviews and am just amazed that the primary team was able to take 300 plus interviews and turn it into a report in a weeks time.  Government never works that fast...
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Yeah, that's quite a turnaround. I used to work in D.C. and have some (very limited, through friends, I used to work at a think tank there) knowledge of the executive bureaucracies, so that is a bit surprising.

 
rockaction said:
Huh about the BIL. Wish I was that cool. I'm not and wasn't judging the older folks, by the way. As a matter of fact, my posts tend to split the middle of not scoldy but very cautious myself and wishing others would heed so we can get out of this quicker. But I think I judge less than others because I understand the longing for human companionship. But The Villages are a bit legendary for their social interactions (and promiscuity, but you didn't hear it from me) and I was just picturing no distancing whatsoever leading to a demographic that is very susceptible to this virus.

Just concern.
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I agree with your take on it being innate in us to need that human interaction.  I've already heard/read about a couple of suicides from folks who just can't deal with it.  In the case of my BIL - that's just his personality, he's not worried about ANYTHING.  Literally space aliens could appear in the sky and start attacking us and he'd be like "whatever".

As for the Villages - you are right, lots of parties and get togethers and while you have several that will be of the safe variety you will also have plenty that have the "you aren't going to tell me what to do" mindset.

 
Doug B said:
The Nate Silver article, at least, doesn't say "the earth is flat", to borrow the metaphor. What Silver wrote was like saying "From a single vantage point on the ground, we can only confirm that the earth has a slight curve." Then Silver, metaphorically, goes on to propose (a) Eratosthenes' sundial experiment, (b) circumnavigation of the earth by sail, and finally (c) view of the Earth from space as means to confirm the Earth's shape.

Frankly, I think Silver's article has been commonly misinterpreted, despite the asterisked and qualified word "meaningless" in the headline. It's been sort of clumsily backfit to support pre-existing notions about the overall worth of (the cost of?) testing.
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It's like people don't understand the point of the asterisk anymore. 

 
Coach Morris Buttermaker said:
I visit many sites, and I see many positive stories/articles about hydroxychloroquine. When I visit this site, its always people posting articles suggesting it is not a cure (very few positive stories on it). I almost feel like most on this thread are rooting against it, trying to find only the negative articles on it. Of course just my opinion.  I have no idea if the drug is a cure, but just a weird vibe when I come here.
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Now replace "hydroxychloroquine" with "colloidal silver" or "antimicrobial copper" or "anti-vaxxers".

It's good to have a skeptical (or at least neutral) attitude about unproven medical theories.

If it turns out that hydroxychloroquine is not a "game changer", then I hope that you and others will take it as a valuable learning experience, and perhaps in the future you will treat unproven ideas with a similar neutral viewpoint, rather than being focused on whether the discussion is positive enough.

 
I haven't been in the thread as much the last week, was just taking up too much of my mental energy.  I've read several posts about the drug that Trump keeps bringing up and how there's side effects and not enough good data to show that it really helps.  But I haven't seen many posts about blood transfusions from those who have recovered.  I maybe missed them but what is the thinking here?  It's that something that shows more promise or is it too early to tell?  My guess is that at a minimum we know that it can only help and not really hurt, unlike the hydro-whatever drug.  Or am I wrong about that?

 
gianmarco said:
What will be awesome is when China has a spike in cases and then we'll lift our restrictions like a month later and be like "oh, it's ok, it won't happen here". 

I think I've seen this movie before.
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Why would that be awesome?  What would be awesome if we found a cure for this thing.

 
Don Hutson said:
Quote
How long can the coronavirus live on common surfaces?

https://coronavirus.nautil.us/how-long-can-the-coronavirus-live-on-common-surfaces/?fbclid=IwAR02LZ__jppn-vXdHuJdIS746vqtxSQnhNtFVbTFvzJ9oarkvx12ySTuLsM

Some of the biggest misconceptions about COVID-19 pertain to how long the virus can live on surfaces and how likely a person is to contract the disease by coming into contact with those surfaces. This paranoia was exacerbated, when—earlier in March—the CDC discovered coronavirus genetic material in the cabins of infected passengers on a Diamond Princess cruise ship 17 days after passengers had left the cabins.

Additionally, when the New England Journal of Medicine published a study to determine how long coronavirus can remain on surfaces in a controlled laboratory setting, researchers found that the virus was detectable on copper for up to four hours, on cardboard for up to 24 hours, and on plastic and steel for up to 72 hours.

Though that may sound scary, the good news is that just because the virus is detectable, it still doesn’t mean that you can become infected by coming into contact with it.

Dr. Julia Marcus, an infectious disease epidemiologist and assistant professor at Harvard Medical School, told The Guardian that the important takeaway here is how rapidly the virus decreases on each of those surfaces. As such, “the risk of infection from touching them would probably decrease over time as well.”

In fact, the CDC has yet to document a case in which the virus was transmitted to a person via a contaminated surface.

“[Finding that 'virus is detectable' (db)] just means that there are parts of the virus that still remain,” added Dr. Akiko Iwasaki, who studies adaptive immunity at Yale School of Medicine. “The virus needs many other components to be intact. Just because you had a little piece of [ribonucleic acid, a nucleic acid present in all living cells], doesn’t mean that there’s an infection.”

So while it is true that the virus can be detected on plastic for up to 72 hours, the amount that remains may be less than 0.1% of the starting virus material—making infection theoretically possible but highly unlikely. Either way, everyone should be diligent about washing their hands, especially when coming into contact with a potentially contaminated surface. 
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Don, you buried the lede a bit.

The part in blue should be the first, second, and third thing we think about when evaluating any studies (esp game-changing ones) about transmission of the virus -- what, specifically, is being found after 24 hours on cardboard (or whatever)? Intact, 'ready to infect' viruses? Or 'parts is parts', inert bits of RNA, chunks of viral 'shell', etc.

 
Don Hutson said:
Slapdash said:
What percentage of cases has the CDC documented the source for?
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A high percentage of the early cases.  The detective work was very thorough.  They tried figuring out everyone that an infected person came into contact with.
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Though I like a lot about the article you posted, I don't agree with the authors that absence of documented fomite transmission means anything. It's one thing to trace personal contacts ... but tracing "stuff the patient touched over the past three weeks" does not happen in any real detail. Sure, the low-hanging fruit is usually identified -- door handles, elevator buttons, etc. But an odd section of wall? A pen at a bank counter? Change given at a coffee shop? And so on.

 
Just chatted over FB with my cousin.  She lives with her hubby, and both are out of work.  She told me she didn't pay her rent on April 1st, and has no plans on paying anytime soon.  I am sure she isn't alone, as many others are only making enough to feed themselves.  It's gonna be hard for landlords to collect rent, and even harder to get squatters to vacate.

 
rockaction said:
Now I think you're going overboard. Every country but S. Korea is having trouble with this new physical distancing. This isn't a mistaken belief in American exceptionalism, writ large. It's a human reaction to isolation mixed with a lack of understanding about how and why the virus spreads. It's not endemic to this country. At all. 
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I think American exceptionalism has put us and will keep us in this predicament for a while but this isn’t the place for it so I’ll leave it at that. 

 
bcat01 said:
If China sees another surge after opening everything up maybe it will cause the U.S. and other countries to be more precautious. 
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I don’t trust that we’ll have reliable information from China, especially information that suggests the government doesn’t have things under control. 

 
TheWinz said:
Just chatted over FB with my cousin.  She lives with her hubby, and both are out of work.  She told me she didn't pay her rent on April 1st, and has no plans on paying anytime soon.  I am sure she isn't alone, as many others are only making enough to feed themselves.  It's gonna be hard for landlords to collect rent, and even harder to get squatters to vacate.
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That's why the idea floated on here of a 2 month rent/mortgage forgiveness is such a good one. It would offer immediate help to people now and no one would have to wait for a check to see this benefit. 

 
NorvilleBarnes said:
No offense but I think you really have a hard tie with people disagreeing with you. You dismissed my posts twice as conspiracies. The first time I thought it was funny, but the second time it was like there's that word again, and I noticed you did it with others. Just for fun I ran a search of when you labeled something a conspiracy and it came back with seven pages.

Maybe you don't realize you do this - we all have our blind spots. I think you're a valuable poster here but I think you could do with a little less of seeing monsters under the bed that aren't there.
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Fair enough.  I'll stop posting for awhile.  Tension is getting a bit high in here. I view anti-WHO stuff as conspiratorial.  I see it all the time from people that lean toward that side of the fence.  I apologize for using that term towards you

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
beer 30 said:
Why yes, [N95 masks are reusable]

https://www.toledoblade.com/local/Coronavirus/2020/03/29/fda-authorizes-ohio-company-to-sterilize-10-000-surgical-masks-a-day/stories/20200329098
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What about n95, medical, or homemade masks being used to just go to the store?  Wash them? Lysol?  Throw away?
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For me, I am re-using my N95 mask over and over for trips to the grocery and other errands.

In between, the mask is generally left in the car to get a "hot car" sanitizing (parked in 85+ F full sun, interior temp ~135-140F). A few times I have brought it into the house and let it sit for a few days. The "hot car" stuff will eventually dry-rot the elastic, but so far it has been holding up.

 
Courtjester said:
That's why the idea floated on here of a 2 month rent/mortgage forgiveness is such a good one. It would offer immediate help to people now and no one would have to wait for a check to see this benefit. 
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Sorry - I missed that discussion. Two follow ups:

1) What are landlords supposed to do?

2) I don't see how it would be legal.

 
Worm said:
This guy is the chair of the NYC City Council health committee, so presumably has access to this data and is a legitimate source:

https://twitter.com/MarkLevineNYC/status/1247155576221716480

It’s not just deaths in hospitals which are up. On an average day before this crisis there were 20-25 deaths at home in NYC. Now in the midst of this pandemic the number is 200-215. *Every day*.  5/
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This is an important link to read.

You don't have to extrapolate that situation very much further to see that bad things are going to happen.

 
Doug B said:
Doug B said:
Standard of evidence in this thread is much higher than it is on the Internet at large. Something being written on a website does nothing to establish veracity.
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@NorvilleBarnes ? Don't hold back.
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Well I think, generally, people tend to have a little higher standards of evidence when it contradicts their existing belief, and a little more accepting when it supports their position. I don't think I'm saying anything radical here. And I'm not casting stones - I'm no better.  But for some people, they certainly don't seem to be holding anything coming from China or WHO to any sort of high standards or even critical thinking imho.

 
Well, I'm out for at least a week.  

Called in today- have had shortness of breath and chest pain for a couple days.  No real fever or other stuff, but still coded as essential worker, so had to do my due diligence and call.  

Said not enough tests, so that wasn't an option, just treating as a "probable" for anyone with CV related symptoms.  

 
shader said:
Fair enough.  I'll stop posting for awhile.  Tension is getting a bit high in here. I view anti-WHO stuff as conspiratorial.  I see it all the time from people that lean toward that side of the fence.  I apologize for using that term towards you
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Apology accepted and for the record the bolded is absolutely not what I wanted. I was going for more of a please "dial it down" on this one point. In all honesty between the two of us you've contributed far more valuable posts than I have.  Please do not stop.

 
shader said:
Fair enough.  I'll stop posting for awhile.  Tension is getting a bit high in here. I view anti-WHO stuff as conspiratorial.  I see it all the time from people that lean toward that side of the fence.  I apologize for using that term towards you
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Dude you really need to stop painting with such a wide brush. People have backed their side up with very reputable sources and you still tried to shoot them down in those instances. Maybe stop trying to be the arbiter of whether something is worth sharing or not. If someone posts a link from a terrible source, rest assured people will let them know about it. Your need to jump in and get the first word on everything people share is simply odd and off-putting. This is a message board, let both sides be heard. Have more faith in people to figure out for themselves what holds water.

 
whoknew said:
Sorry - I missed that discussion. Two follow ups:

1) What are landlords supposed to do?

2) I don't see how it would be legal.
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Landlords are gonna be at the mercy of their tenants.  If they pay, great, but if not, will law enforcement assist in forceful evictions right now?

 
TheWinz said:
Landlords are gonna be at the mercy of their tenants.  If they pay, great, but if not, will law enforcement assist in forceful evictions right now?
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That's state by state, but I think most states (if not all) have currently suspended evictions.

ETA: But there's a big difference between suspending evictions and requiring rent forgiveness.

 
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Leeroy Jenkins said:
What about n95, medical, or homemade masks being used to just go to the store?  Wash them? Lysol?  Throw away?
Click to expand...
I was going to answer but @Doug B sums it up nicely below. Unless you are in an emergency ward full of COVID patience's I think it's fine to reuse for as long as you need to but I'm nobody, not even a guy playing a doctor on TV so please don't take my advice. I'm sure there are articles out there regarding the subject.

Doug B said:
For me, I am re-using my N95 mask over and over for trips to the grocery and other errands.

In between, the mask is generally left in the car to get a "hot car" sanitizing (parked in 85+ F full sun, interior temp ~135-140F). A few times I have brought it into the house and let it sit for a few days. The "hot car" stuff will eventually dry-rot the elastic, but so far it has been holding up.
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:hifive:

KarmaPolice said:
Said not enough tests, so that wasn't an option, just treating as a "probable" for anyone with CV related symptoms.  
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So we tested tigers & lions at the Bronx zoo this weekend and determined they have it. Serious question, is it a different test for animals than humans? My gut tells me even if it is, you are still using the same materials you would need for a human test thus taking that away from a human in lieu of an animal? Help me out smart people.

 
NorvilleBarnes said:
Apology accepted and for the record the bolded is absolutely not what I wanted. I was going for more of a please "dial it down" on this one point. In all honesty between the two of us you've contributed far more valuable posts than I have.  Please do not stop.
Click to expand...
I apologize, I'm a bit frustrated today.  You had a lot of people that agreed with you, so I'll analyze the way I post and try to not get engaged in debates as much. 

Throughout this thread I've disagreed with people far more than I usually do.  I feel it's important to fight against bad info.  From "just a flu bro" arguments to "you guys are overreacting" to the current arguments that we've seen in the past week, if I see an argument that is categorically inaccurate, I like to respond and let a person know that I disagree. 

But, there's a right way to respond, and I definitely get too emotional when I see an argument that has the potential for harm.  No hard feelings, and though we disagree on the WHO issue, I'll show you more respect. 👍

 
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