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You Can't Be Kidding Me With Sanders (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter rockaction
- Start date
![[scooter]](/data/avatars/m/22/22287.jpg?1659477690){kind=avatar}
[scooter]
Footballguy
They can, but in here they will get ridiculed. Trump > Socialist Sanders, and it's not even close.
Capella
Footballguy
I would say the right leaning may stay home if somebody like a Bush was president. Trump is repulsive to so many people though.
TheMagus
Footballguy
I was just going to post something to the same effect. It's not exactly like Bernie is crushing the field here. Nevada looks like it will be his best showing so far and he's still well under 50% with Democratic voters that are enthusiastic enough to actually get out and vote in a primary. He lost the popular vote to Hillary (a wildly unpopular candidate with an active FBI investigation against her) by 10 points or so (too lazy to look up the exact number). So in 2016 Bernie lost to arguably one of the worst candidates in modern history in the primary and he seems to be polling overall in lower percentages than he was then.
And you nailed the big difference between Republicans and Democrats - Republicans (generally, not all) have a core set of ingrained values that trump all else: 2nd amendment, abortion, justice appointments, etc. So they are willing to "hold their nose" because those core beliefs are more important to them than anything else. The Democrats don't have that; it is a much more fractured set of ideals which is a characteristic of liberalism and they likely aren't as inclined to vote for a President they really don't like but agree with on some things.
Now with Trump being the opponent, that may introduce a different dynamic where voters will come out against Trump as opposed to for the nominee, but that is unknowable at this point. And this idea that Bernie is going to bring a plethora of new motivated voters to participate and get behind him is something that I don't think is supported by the data at this point. I'm not sure that there is enough data to determine that the increase in new voters will counteract the loss of potential voters by not going with a more moderate policy platform. In Iowa and New Hampshire, there didn't seems to be an unusual introduction of new voices to the table and even if there were, Bernie got less than 30% of the Democratic electorate in his corner.
Great points. Let this sink in a little bit: The candidate the dems are picking is the one that lost to Hillary last time.
beef
Footballguy
TheMagus
Footballguy
I have really never understood where this narrative came from. Here is the data (from Wikipedia):
Hillary Clinton - 16, 914,722 votes from actual people (not super delegates) who voted in the primary --> 55.2% ; 2271 pledged delegates
Bernie Sanders - 13, 914,428 votes from actual people (not super delegates) who voted in the primary --> 43.1%; 1865 pledged delegates
hagmania
Footballguy
Once Bernie bounced back from the heart attack with no major dip in popularity, the writing was on the wall. Trump wrote the playbook to beat the party nomination process. What a shame that our campaign system might face some sort of heavy introspection.
hagmania
Footballguy
The narrative is all in the momentum. Cable news plastered the super delegate lead every chance they could, I think in some instances before Iowa even. I don't think it's 12 points worth of momentum though. Who knows, maybe the outrage over the "rigging" is what drove turnout in 2016 for Bernie in the first place.
Regardless, it spawned the movement that has been brewing since he announced his candidacy however many years ago.
timschochet
Footballguy
Well, personally I’m not like @rockaction or @IvanKaramazov
if it’s going to be Bernie I won’t sit it out. I’ll support him and vote for him and hope he wins.
if it’s going to be Bernie I won’t sit it out. I’ll support him and vote for him and hope he wins.
rockaction
Footballguy
I think you want to put that here.
https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/783943-bernie-haters-for-bernie/
Chicago Hooligan
Footballguy
Given that a unisex bathroom also "made you" want to vote for Trump it doesn't seem like you need much motivation.
Mr.Pack
Footballguy
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rockaction
Footballguy
Then again, Trump's complete and utter inattention to NATO makes me want to come nowhere near voting for him so I'll let you figure out when I'm being hyperbolic.
rockaction
Footballguy
Considering the FEC can't even meet because its board hasn't been filled, I guess we could say they've got their back turned like a WWF ref.
Mr.Pack
Footballguy
They'll be out and voting. They all see tuition forgiveness and everything else that will be free.
Sad state of affairs this country is in right now.
Mr.Pack
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Let me offer a reasonable argument: because of the nature of executive power, Trump can do far more to damage NATO than Bernie can to damage capitalism. Thus Trump is the bigger threat.
Chicago Hooligan
Footballguy
I mean I remember you having a huge meltdown and getting your thread deleted but if this some sort of "calmer than u" play then maybe just sit this one out too. Sit them all out.
rockaction
Footballguy
I think Bernie would want no part of NATO. Or, he'd want what others have asked for from both elements far right and left and Trump -- equal partnership among the alliance, which never has been and never will be.
Take_The_Shot
Footballguy
Bernie will win the popular vote by more than HRC did. Bernie will not win Ohio, will not win Florida, will not win Pennsylvania. That's all that matters. Have fun convincing yourselves otherwise.
Signed,
Anti-Trump
Signed,
Anti-Trump
rockaction
Footballguy
This deserves this:
herp derp.
And I hate the herp almost as much as the derp.
timschochet
Footballguy
Great quote by liberal movie critic Pauline Kael in late November, 1972, in NYC at the time:
“I just don’t understand. Everybody I knew voted for McGovern. What happened?”
TheMagus
Footballguy
Any kind of media narrative didn't sway the election 12 flipping points. This is what has had me so frustrated with "the movement" all these years. Bernie lost the primary in 2016 . Full stop. No matter what spin you put on it or somehow Hillary had an advantage because someone told DWS they were going to bring up abortion at a debate or whatnot... he lost... big. And Hillary was clearly a terrible candidate, which I didn't realize at the time because I trusted the American people to understand that her flaws were inconsequential when looking at the alternative of Donald [censored] Trump.
And now Bernie's numbers among the Democratic base are even worse than they were while he was running against what I would consider the worst presidential Democratic candidate of my lifetime based on the fact that she lost to Donald [censored] Trump. AND THAT IS THE DEMOCRATIC BASE/PRIMARY VOTERS. We need a coalition of people that are going to come out to the polls in November in droves to stop this Trump madness. And Bernie can't even get a majority of Democrats to support him.
And somehow I'm supposed to believe the answer to defeating Trump, which is an existential priority for me, is nominating the candidate that couldn't even beat the worst Democratic candidate in my lifetime? It's crazy town.
And because there are so many candidates running, Bernie is going to get the nomination especially with Bloomberg in the mix essentially ensuring a contested convention. They all know he's going to screw up the numbers so much with his billion dollars that the non-Bernie candidates will hang in even if they have no money left to see if they can get something at the convention.
I get it. I get how impassioned Bernie supporters are. But I think the passion clouds a logical view of reality where over half of the Democratic base is not really on board with his policies/messages let alone the electorate as a whole that was apparently willing to elect Donald [censored] Trump in the first place.
I went into this election cycle skeptical about the cynics that said the Dems were going to screw this up. And here we are.
I just really don't think that the Bernie supporters get it because they are clouded by the vision of "the movement" and think it is a lot bigger than it is. I am a lifelong Democrat (liberal) who lives in suburban Philadelphia. I would NEVER vote for Bernie Sanders in a general election if the GOP hadn't completely gone off the rails to what it is today. If everything was completely normal and Marco Rubio or John Kasich or Mitt Romney or Justin Amash were the Republican nominee, I would vote for them over Bernie. And I pay a lot of attention to politics as opposed to my 401K and I know how egregiously bad Trump is and that is the ONLY reason I will vote for Bernie in the general. But that is not going to win the election with the masses who are generally enjoying a pretty good economy.
/rant
The Commish
Footballguy
No one's "making" you do anything rockaction. If you think half of what he wants to accomplish is achievable, that's on you. It's not. What you get in Bernie is an upgrade in the morality department. The rest is just noise and "socialism" that isn't even socialism. If that's worse than Trump to you then oh well
[scooter]
Footballguy
Just for the sake of facts.....Bernie also trailed in non-superdelgate votes for almost the entire campaign. He had a 36-32 lead for a few days after he won New Hampshire in February. That was it.
hagmania
Footballguy
I'm fully aware. I was just offering what the commentary was. Bernie lost; America wasn't ready for him yet. They might be ready for him now.
rockaction
Footballguy
Nah, it's hyperbole, this "making" bit. It's sort of like, "I'm trying to work with you, but..." . I guess licenses for what is truth is don't really fly on the internet. More seriously: I live in CA. My vote was never meaning anything. I'm speaking for those not similarly situated who must be thinking this right now.No one's "making" you do anything rockaction. If you think half of what he wants to accomplish is achievable, that's on you. It's not. What you get in Bernie is an upgrade in the morality department. The rest is just noise and "socialism" that isn't even socialism. If that's worse than Trump to you then oh well
The Commish
Footballguy
my comments apply to them also.Nah, it's hyperbole, this "making" bit. It's sort of like, "I'm trying to work with you, but..." . I guess licenses for what is truth is don't really fly on the internet. More seriously: I live in CA. My vote was never meaning anything. I'm speaking for those not similarly situated who must be thinking this right now.No one's "making" you do anything rockaction. If you think half of what he wants to accomplish is achievable, that's on you. It's not. What you get in Bernie is an upgrade in the morality department. The rest is just noise and "socialism" that isn't even socialism. If that's worse than Trump to you then oh well
[scooter]
Footballguy
Another familiar commentary was something to the effect of, "The final score only looks like a blowout because Bernie voters gave up when they realized that the system was rigged against them!"
(And that's supposed to inspire confidence that these same quitters are going to come out in force in November??)
timschochet
Footballguy
All of my daughter’s friends are supporting Bernie.
You’ll notice I wrote “supporting” and not “voting for” because who knows where they’ll be on election night? There might be a party, or a test the next day. Now if it was The Bachelor...
But I guess we can say with confidence that if push comes to shove, Bernie will lock down the Chapman University sorority vote. (Just in case California’s in play.)
You’ll notice I wrote “supporting” and not “voting for” because who knows where they’ll be on election night? There might be a party, or a test the next day. Now if it was The Bachelor...
But I guess we can say with confidence that if push comes to shove, Bernie will lock down the Chapman University sorority vote. (Just in case California’s in play.)
hagmania
Footballguy
Youth is fickle. Bernie is lightning in a bottle, so let's ride the lightning, baby.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
I wonder what all this free stuff is going to cost me. I wonder if I will be on the plus side or the negative side of the ledger.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
So you wouldn't vote for a centrist democrat against Trump, and you won't vote for a far left democrat against him.
You're not getting a democrat further right than Hillary, so sounds like you're sitting this one out no matter what.
Nope. This is a pet peeve of mine. I even did some research and ended up contributing to the Wikipedia entry on it.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
What is the point of this? There’s a thread about the dem primary and a separate Sanders thread, and a third thread started by the other board narcissist telling the Dems to “wake up!” and you need another one because you’re so enlightened @rockaction? Here’s a news flash - you’re regurgitating the same message big media has been spewing for months now. It’s not newthreadworthy man. Delete.
College students aren't the difference makers in Florida. It's retirees and Latinos.
I'm not predicting that Bernie can't win; after 2016, I'm out of the prediction business. But while I think it's possible, I would be very surprised if a Bernie victory came via the Sun Belt (FL, GA, TX, AZ). The industrial Midwest is a far more likely path.
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Nugget
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Navin Johnson
Footballguy
I think they are distant cousins.I seriously can’t listen to Berns without picturing Larry David - it’s perfect.
Am pretty bummed we won’t get any more of Jason Sudeikis’ Biden. That always kills me
ShamrockPride
Footballguy
The large majority of young people that are into politics enough to get their butt up off the couch and to the booth on election day understand they will be paying more in taxes to make up for the POS price. They don't care.
ren hoek
Footballguy
Sanders won several state primaries that ultimately went to Clinton at the convention. You saw the shenanigans in Nevada in 2016. There were other problems like the NYC Dem Party purging 200,000 people from the voter rolls. Hillary Clinton had a secret financial/decision-making agreement with the DNC. It was a pretty gross operation from top to bottom.
I suppose it's possible Clinton got more overall votes, but she obviously had tons of flaws, issues with likability, issues with corruption, an ongoing FBI investigation. It's hard to imagine Sanders losing that election in retrospect. However you want to spin it he is winning big in this primary.
I think people underestimate how well he can connect with working class, independents, young people, and especially minorities- huge voting blocs that didn't really turn out for Clinton, that maybe don't always show up at Democratic Primaries. Their ground game, online support, financials, handling of the media- it's impressive, and you're gonna need all of that to contend with Trump. Sanders appeals to people that have felt disenfranchised and forgotten for decades. What 2016 showed us is that a lot of the conventional wisdom we believed in was wrong.
If people that have spent the past 4 years acting like Trump is an existential threat to the Republic can't find it in themselves to support a much more honest individual, with a much more compassionate outlook for this country & the world (not talking about socialism either- I'm talking about treating immigrants like human beings again, not bombing the #### out of the Middle East, not watching people die in the street or the hospital because they're poor), I don't want to hear their bs about Trump ever again.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Let me put this very simply:
Working under the assumption that Bernie is the nominee - if you (generic you, not directed at rock) don’t vote for Bernie then don’t ##### and moan when Trump replaces RBG with an extremely right-wing justice.
Working under the assumption that Bernie is the nominee - if you (generic you, not directed at rock) don’t vote for Bernie then don’t ##### and moan when Trump replaces RBG with an extremely right-wing justice.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
You want to get women to vote for Sanders just remind them that overturning Roe v. Wade is a possibility.
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