rcam
Footballguy
Pretty sure that model you are referring to was/is determined to be bunk because what it implies isn't representational of what we are actually seeing. It is wishful thinking.
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Government Response To The Coronavirus (11 Viewers)
- Thread starter James Daulton
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cloppbeast
Footballguy
It has not been bunked because we can not possibly know how many people have already had covid19.
cloppbeast
Footballguy
Amused to Death
Footballguy
The whole point of the lockdown is so the worst-case scenario doesn't happen. If everyone abides by the social distancing and shelter-in-place measures and in the end nothing bad really happens, well that's the point.
The Commish
Footballguy
And it appears that people who've had it are getting it again if we are to believe what's coming out of China at the moment.
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Seriously, we have a current president in charge. Instead of blaming others, how about demanding more leadership from him and less blaming others previous or future?
rcam
Footballguy
Yes, it has.
Look - let's assume the study is correct and COVID19 is ubiquitous and everywhere. Then you wouldn't see flareups or clusters that we are experiencing because it is already everywhere. Everyone should be burning at the same rate - but we are not seeing that. Also, if the virus behaved that way then places like China, S. Korea, and Singapore wouldn't have luck containing the virus through social distancing, quarantining, and testing because it would already have infected such a large portion of their population before it was noticeable. Similarly, the testing and quarantining in Vo, Italy (the first city in Italy to experience a confirmed COVID19 death) would have revealed far more than 3% infection and we would've seen it reemerge if there were really a boatload of false negatives. What that study implies is nothing close to what we are actually experiencing if it were true.
The Commish
Footballguy
I'm not sure who's predictions you are talking about, but at the beginning of this whole thing, most were in agreement that we wouldn't hit China levels as long as we acted quickly. I remember because I chuckled while thinking "fat chance". So, we're well beyond original predictions already.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Some evidence for Trump's improved polling being a muted "rally around the flag" reaction.
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Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Amen.
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timschochet
Footballguy
Remember when Trump was bragging about a deal with GM to manufacture ventilators? It’s been canceled:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/03/26/us/politics/coronavirus-ventilators-trump.amp.html
And now Trump claims the demand for ventilators is “overblown.”
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/03/26/us/politics/coronavirus-ventilators-trump.amp.html
And now Trump claims the demand for ventilators is “overblown.”
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
Agreed.
Even when the facts are encouraging, we don't let our guard down and assume victory.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
See Hong Kong as an example. All the more reason lifting stay-at-home restrictions and packing churches for Easter seems ridiculous.
cloppbeast
Footballguy
I don't think many people believe in the extreme version of the Oxford model that 50% of people already have it, but it challenges some of the assumptions in the Imperial model, which is also flawed in the other direction. If a small town of 3,000 in Italy, not close to urban life, has 3% on Feb 21st, I think it's safe to say this number is a lot higher in Milan and Barcelona. The diamand cruise ship confirms how fast it spreads, by the time the virus gets to the small towns it's already extremely prevalent in the cities where it transmits even faster.
One thing is for certain, fact that 50% of people carrying covid19 have no symptoms alone reduces the danger of the virus in the Imperial model. Ferguson already admited many more people have it than he originally thought, though he later backtracked defending his model's validity.
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timschochet
Footballguy
Meanwhile Peter Navarro, apparently oblivious to the existing crisis and obsessed with continuing the trade war against China, is pushing Trump to issue an executive order that would restrict new purchase of PPE to American manufacturers.
Sound like you just want to write off one person lying being ok and the other not. You can say anything you want but treating one persons lying different than another is biased. Keep those shades on. I'll drop it now and not respond to you on this topic any more.
![[scooter]](/data/avatars/m/22/22287.jpg?1659477690){kind=avatar}
[scooter]
Footballguy
You will be eating crow once it is proven that we didn't need the ventilators that Trump said we needed and then said we didn't.
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timschochet
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
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Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
Yeah I share them often, a few even at your request. I'm sorry you skipped over them.
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
This was on the Wiki site for 2020 Coronavirus Pandemic in the United States:
Public response
Opinion polling showed a significant partisan divide regarding the outbreak.[332] NPR, PBS NewsHour and Marist found in their mid-March survey that 76% of Democrats viewed COVID-19 as "a real threat", while only 40% of Republicans agreed; the previous month's figures for Democrats and Republicans were 70% and 72% respectively.[333] A mid-March poll conducted by NBC News and The Wall Street Journal found that 60% of Democrats were concerned someone in their family might contract the virus, while 40% of Republicans expressed concern. Nearly 80% of Democrats believed the worst was yet to come, whereas 40% of Republicans thought so. About 56% of Democrats believed their lives would change in a major way due to the outbreak, compared to 26% for Republicans.[334] A mid-March poll by the Kaiser Family Foundation found that 83% of Democrats had taken certain precautions against the virus, compared to 53% of Republicans. The poll found that President Trump was the least-trusted source of information about the outbreak, at 46% overall, although 88% of Republicans expressed trust in the president, second only to their trust in the CDC.[335] A March 22 poll conducted by Gallup shows that 60% of Americans polled approved Trump's handling of the situation. The poll also found that his approval rating had increased by 5 points to 49%.[336][337]
The outbreak has prompted calls for the United States to adopt social policies common in other wealthy countries, including universal health care, universal child care, paid family leave, and higher levels of funding for public health.[338] Political analysts anticipated it may negatively affect Donald Trump's chances of re-election in the 2020 presidential election.
Source: Wiki
Public response
Opinion polling showed a significant partisan divide regarding the outbreak.[332] NPR, PBS NewsHour and Marist found in their mid-March survey that 76% of Democrats viewed COVID-19 as "a real threat", while only 40% of Republicans agreed; the previous month's figures for Democrats and Republicans were 70% and 72% respectively.[333] A mid-March poll conducted by NBC News and The Wall Street Journal found that 60% of Democrats were concerned someone in their family might contract the virus, while 40% of Republicans expressed concern. Nearly 80% of Democrats believed the worst was yet to come, whereas 40% of Republicans thought so. About 56% of Democrats believed their lives would change in a major way due to the outbreak, compared to 26% for Republicans.[334] A mid-March poll by the Kaiser Family Foundation found that 83% of Democrats had taken certain precautions against the virus, compared to 53% of Republicans. The poll found that President Trump was the least-trusted source of information about the outbreak, at 46% overall, although 88% of Republicans expressed trust in the president, second only to their trust in the CDC.[335] A March 22 poll conducted by Gallup shows that 60% of Americans polled approved Trump's handling of the situation. The poll also found that his approval rating had increased by 5 points to 49%.[336][337]
The outbreak has prompted calls for the United States to adopt social policies common in other wealthy countries, including universal health care, universal child care, paid family leave, and higher levels of funding for public health.[338] Political analysts anticipated it may negatively affect Donald Trump's chances of re-election in the 2020 presidential election.
Source: Wiki
[scooter]
Footballguy
There is quite a bit of projection in your posts. Is there a reason why you feel the need to interpret and re-state what others are saying?
Based on that article they are wanting to charge 18,000 per ventilator. That seems high to me. Does anyone know what the average price for these should be? If they are significantly higher than the past average price then the Task Force should give the number they need and pay a normal price and be done with it.
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Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
BREAKING: LA County Sheriff & California Governor have just been sued in federal court by the NRA, 2nd Amendment Foundation, California Gun Rights Foundation, & Firearms Policy Coalition over the forced closure of gun stores.
https://twitter.com/BillFOXLA/status/1243623304465805312
Should have forced all lawyers to self-isolate...
https://twitter.com/BillFOXLA/status/1243623304465805312
Should have forced all lawyers to self-isolate...
Lutherman2112
Footballguy
I have no idea, but 18,000 seems a little low for a premium/ICU ventilator. So I'm going with $18,001, Bob.
Is there an issue with explaining how I see the comments they are making and looking for clarification in what we are discussing?
Would it be better if I said "Trump is a stupid lying idiot"? Would you have questioned my motive then?
Would it be better if i said "Biden is a stupid lying idiot"? Would someone else have questioned my motive then?
What is your actual motivation for collecting that and posting?
lakerstan
Footballguy
This article is about 10 days old, but I thought it was an interesting perspective on how the Democrats used the CV bill to get some things they wanted, and was justified in doing so. Not sure that I agree completely, but it was interesting nevertheless.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/03/17/nancy-pelosi-trump-stimulus-132388
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/03/17/nancy-pelosi-trump-stimulus-132388
It would be interesting to actually see the cost but at this point if he feels they are overpricing he should invoke the DPA.
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cloppbeast
Footballguy
Doesn't sound like it is a policy just planning.
While the plan has not been implemented yet, a spokesperson told FOX 2 it is part of a "worst-case scenario" policy.
bostonfred
Footballguy
I don't buy a lot of ventilators these days, especially from car manufacturers who repurposed their equipment to make them, but after spending a couple trillion, i figure a machine that will save multiple lives as each ventilator certainly will is worth a few bucks.
I suppose you're right, though, that it's not fair for private businesses to charge more just because we need it. When people's lives are at stake, the government should prioritize health care over profits and ask ther federal government to enact a socialist policy.
Of course Republicans have been arguing against that for decades but it's different now because it might affect them.
Dylan Byers @DylanByers · 12m
#Break: FOX Business has parted ways with Trish Regan - “We thank her for her contributions to the network over the years and wish her continued success in her future endeavors,” network says.
Regan had said coronavirus was a part of an effort to impeach Trump.
timschochet
Footballguy
Most likely the cost involves retooling.
But this whole conversation is absurd. As in World War II, we should order the plants to make them at the prices we set.
joffer
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
cloppbeast
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
No clue but remember the factory also has to be converted so I’m sure that makes it more expensive than for a company already making ventilators. Also we are dumping $6 trillion into the economy, are we really going to quibble over maybe $50 Or $100 million that will help a large publicly traded company make some money, provide work for Americans and get emergency health equipment out to the hospitals? The big issue imo is making sure they are going to be ready when we need them and not after it’s too late.
RnR
Footballguy
He's been pretty clear that he's only using "force" as necessary (3 or 4 times so far, I think). He's said most companies are happy and willing to help, so why "bully" them with it when you don't have to? That seemed like it was going to be the case with GM, but something obviously fell through there... so he used it.
I can't help but chuckle at the people in here that think, even in time of crisis, you can just snap a finger and make a shuttered car plant pump out ventilators. They've surely been prepping themselves for production while these discussions have gone on.
And before anyone replies, I know I know... if Trump had acted like a dictator in January he'd have a bunch of ventilators now. And you probably would've critiqued that as overstepping his bounds then and called for impeachment. I get the playbook, guys. You're not being as nuanced with all this as you think.
dkp993
Footballguy
Nothing worse the being out bid by 1$. Really makes wearing that stupid shirt to get on TV even more frustrating.
Can you explain why you think GM would have moved any quicker than they already have if the DPA was used?
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