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James Daulton

Government Response To The Coronavirus

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one reason the his approval ranking is the same old reason.  Fox news provides him plenty of air cover and manipulates their audience into thinking the guy is competent

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14 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

As a total aside, the good performances of many governors in all of this demonstrates why our Presidents should come from their ranks - not from those of bureaucratic congresspersons or novice businesspeople.

It also shows that a conservative approach focusing on states rights can work but that federal intervention is needed when there's a clear and present danger to the country as a whole.  I think the response from the governors is what @fucla argued for forever but even he probably wants the federal government to act.  

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9 minutes ago, The Dude said:

one reason the his approval ranking is the same old reason.  Fox news provides him plenty of air cover and manipulates their audience into thinking the guy is competent

More so, delaying a relief bill by a week to ensure a partisan wishlist is included helps him appear competent in contrast.

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2 minutes ago, bostonfred said:

It also shows that a conservative approach focusing on states rights can work but that federal intervention is needed when there's a clear and present danger to the country as a whole.  I think the response from the governors is what @fucla argued for forever but even he probably wants the federal government to act.  

Certainly. This is the general reason why our federalistic structure has succeeded where the initial attempt using confederation didn't. 

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16 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

As a total aside, the good performances of many governors in all of this demonstrates why our Presidents should come from their ranks - not from those of bureaucratic congresspersons or novice businesspeople.

Maybe this is true as a general rule, but we don’t elect generalizations; we elect individuals. Some individuals are good leaders whatever their backgrounds. Abraham Lincoln and Harry Truman weren’t governors; they came from Congress and yet they were decisive, great leaders. Jimmy Carter and George W Bush were governors and their records as President weren’t so good. 

The person is what’s important, much more than his or her background IMO. 

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13 hours ago, Sheriff Bart said:

People that teach sign language to apes and dolphins and stuff are the only ones who can understand Trump. 

 

stay classy.

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1 hour ago, bostonfred said:

It's not flattery he wants, it's improving his approval ratings. He only cares about reelection. 

Pretty sure he cares about his businesses and money too. 

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1 hour ago, bostonfred said:

It's not flattery he wants, it's improving his approval ratings. He only cares about reelection. 

He definitely responds to flattery. That's how he gets played by all the dictators he sucks up to - Western leaders won't do it but they will - whatever works for them.

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14 minutes ago, JbizzleMan said:

Seems to be extra angsty today.

I'm old enough to remember when he said he didn't think states needed that many respirators and today he's mad there's not enough. 

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1 hour ago, timschochet said:

Per reporting, apparently one way to get more ventilators is to publicly praise President Trump- he responds best to flattery.

ETTD. - it's a losing game, he ends up punishing those who genuflect to him anyway.

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So our “businessman” president was unable to negotiate a deal with these companies? 

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Thousands more are going to die because of this guy and it is not the least bit surprising.

Trump in my head?  Going to be in my lungs.

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2 hours ago, Redwes25 said:

If you have any doubt we should have tighter measures to control the virus please read this article and tell me you still disagree. 
 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/27/world/europe/coronavirus-italy-bergamo.html

Behind a paywall, copy and paste the text?

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Just now, fantasycurse42 said:

Behind a paywall, copy and paste the text?

 I can't really do that as it is interactive with pictures, etc.  NYT is offering all coronavirus coverage for free but need to sign up for an account.

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, sho nuff said:

Well, Donald, Don Jr, Ivanka, Jared....

During an interview with Fauci — a leader on the White House coronavirus task force — the host of the Morning on The Mall Podcast, Vince Coglianese, asked if the doctor thinks the media is attempting to emphasize differences of opinions between himself and Trump. 

"That is really unfortunate. I would wish that would stop because we have a much bigger problem here than trying to point out differences," Fauci said. "There really fundamentally at the core ... are not differences."

Fauci said that Trump does listen to his expertise and the opinions of other officials on the task force. 

"The president has listened to what I have said and what the other people on the task force have said. When I have made recommendations he has taken them," Fauci added. "The idea of just pitting one against the other is just not helpful."

Edited by zDragon
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2 hours ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

For any who missed Trump on Hannity - he said he doesn't believe NY needs all those ventilators.

Even if we don't end up needing them, I'd rather be prepared than hear this. Truly an awful leader. 

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47 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

Pretty sure he cares about his businesses and money too. 

Right, I agree that he's interested in personally benefiting. But I think his highest priority right now is getting reelected because the consequence of losing could be dire.

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1 hour ago, KarmaPolice said:

Pretty sure he cares about his businesses and money too. 

And sleeping with his friends' wives.  

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11 hours ago, zoonation said:

He is a compulsive liar.  I don’t believe anything that comes out if the mouth of a compulsive liar.  Because they cannot be trusted.  It is that simple.  I don’t care what his “message” is.  Sometimes his lies are benign.  Not this time.  

Problem.  I agree he has issues but so does Biden.  Are you going to say the same things when he is elected?  Hillary had the same issue would you have said the same about her? In fact if you take your statement of compulsive liar that would be almost all politicians.  Unfortunately that is just the fact of our government right now.

Regardless of who is in the position we need to listen to the message regardless if the are an R,D or I. The problem I see now is if it is not my guy I blindly hate them and this is from both sides.  We need to get rid of that mentality. 

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4 minutes ago, zDragon said:

Problem.  I agree he has issues but so does Biden.  Are you going to say the same things when he is elected?  Hillary had the same issue would you have said the same about her? In fact if you take your statement of compulsive liar that would be almost all politicians.  Unfortunately that is just the fact of our government right now.

Regardless of who is in the position we need to listen to the message regardless if the are an R,D or I. The problem I see now is if it is not my guy I blindly hate them and this is from both sides.  We need to get rid of that mentality. 

No one before trump and no one after him will ever lie, misdirect, fabricate, distract like he does. Biden isn't even in the same ball park.

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6 minutes ago, zDragon said:

Problem.  I agree he has issues but so does Biden.  Are you going to say the same things when he is elected?  Hillary had the same issue would you have said the same about her? In fact if you take your statement of compulsive liar that would be almost all politicians.  Unfortunately that is just the fact of our government right now.

Regardless of who is in the position we need to listen to the message regardless if the are an R,D or I. The problem I see now is if it is not my guy I blindly hate them and this is from both sides.  We need to get rid of that mentality. 

Saying they are all the same is part of the problem.

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5 minutes ago, urbanhack said:

No one before trump and no one after him will ever lie, misdirect, fabricate, distract like he does. Biden isn't even in the same ball park.

So you will trust someone that lies just as long as they are not Trump?  This sounds a lot like it's not my guy syndrome.

A liar is a liar.  If you don't trust one you should not trust the other. 

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4 minutes ago, Daywalker said:

Saying they are all the same is part of the problem.

Why would you trust one over the other?  Once you have established you will lie about an event, policy, etc. Why would you assume they would not lie to you in the future or you know of all the lies they have already told you.

 

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12 minutes ago, zDragon said:

Problem.  I agree he has issues but so does Biden.  Are you going to say the same things when he is elected?  Hillary had the same issue would you have said the same about her? In fact if you take your statement of compulsive liar that would be almost all politicians.  Unfortunately that is just the fact of our government right now.

Regardless of who is in the position we need to listen to the message regardless if the are an R,D or I. The problem I see now is if it is not my guy I blindly hate them and this is from both sides.  We need to get rid of that mentality. 

Trump openly lies either from ignorance on the subject he's speaking on or purposefully far more than Biden, Hillary, whatever Dem you want to pick. He's unrivaled in this area. Not even close.

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Just now, The General said:

Trump openly lies either from ignorance on the subject he's speaking on or purposefully far more than Biden, Hillary, whatever Dem you want to pick. He's unrivaled in this area. Not even close.

So your saying if it is your guy it is ok to lie? What sets apart one person that lies a lot and one person that way more than that and openly?

We should not accept any of these people but the "but it is my guy and their lies are not bad" is a deep rooted problem we have right now.

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48 minutes ago, Daywalker said:

Thousands more are going to die because of this guy and it is not the least bit surprising.

Trump in my head?  Going to be in my lungs.

Deblasio?

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3 minutes ago, zDragon said:

So your saying if it is your guy it is ok to lie? What sets apart one person that lies a lot and one person that way more than that and openly?

We should not accept any of these people but the "but it is my guy and their lies are not bad" is a deep rooted problem we have right now.

Did you ever in your life tell a lie? Even once? If so, does that mean you can't be trusted, ever again? Of course it doesn't. I doubt that there is anyone on earth who hasn't told a lie. That doesn't mean nobody can be believed, and I can still believe some of them, no matter what political party they are in. On the other hand, if someone lies 5 times per day, I'm not believing a word they say, no matter what party they belong to.

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Just now, zDragon said:

So your saying if it is your guy it is ok to lie? What sets apart one person that lies a lot and one person that way more than that and openly?

We should not accept any of these people but the "but it is my guy and their lies are not bad" is a deep rooted problem we have right now.

Let’s just take baby steps are remove the person who has taken this to levels we have not seen since Nixon. We can hold Biden accountable when he is in the chair.

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4 hours ago, bostonfred said:

The problem is that he doesn't care about anything as much as getting reelected. Getting voted out would mean that he was directly in the crosshairs of Democrats who impeached him and believe he's a criminal. His name would be irrevocably damaged, his family wouldn't have his protection from a sympathetic DoJ, and his legacy would be the president who was impeached and subsequently voted out. That's his highest priority - improving things for Americans is secondary.  

That doesn't mean he doesn't care about improving things for America.  It's just that, given the choice between actually creating value but appearing to fail, and appearing to create value but actually failing, he'll always choose appearing to create value.  

His entire experience with creating value is creating the appearance of value, not actually solving problems.  

People think you're bankrupt?  Cover everything in gold leaf and get yourself on television.  

Stock market down? Tell investors it's going to go up.  Pump money into it. 

Getting impeached?  Tell people you're not guilty and use your ability to nominate a replacement for RBG as leverage to get acquitted in ther Senate. 

At no point was the answer to grow his business, improve the country or not commit impeachable crimes.  There's always been an easier answer.  

He has been trying to control the narrative on this since the beginning - making comments about how the Democrats want people to die to make him look bad, or the virus isn't that bad, it'll magically go away in spring, my response has been a ten out of ten. When he made his early press conference with the heads of major companies, the stock market had a major rally for a couple thousand points, and he sent signed copies of the DJIA chart for the afternoon to those CEOs.

Now when things are getting worse, he's talking about how Americans want to get back to work by Easter, because that's a popular thing for him to want, and it's something investors want to hear.  Wa la, the market bounces back a little.  

That's why investors love him - he uses every tool to manipulate the market up and make them money. But when it comes to actually creating value, he's making decisions that hurt Americans.  He bought up ventilators when the states were trying to do the same and then demanded that they give a little to get a little.  Because it's more important that he get credit than that people get medical treatment.  

His comments that this wasn't a big deal, and that we'll be back to business by Easter, just give his supporters reason to doubt the experts and go out earlier and more than they should.  If - when - people die, he'll blame the virus, not his own comments.  

And the last thing he'll do is take responsibility for firing the pandemic response team, failing to get ahead of this issue or lock things down early on. 

It's awful watching this. 

Bravo!

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10 minutes ago, zDragon said:

Why would you trust one over the other?  Once you have established you will lie about an event, policy, etc. Why would you assume they would not lie to you in the future or you know of all the lies they have already told you.

 

Just not how the world works.

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2 minutes ago, apalmer said:

Did you ever in your life tell a lie? Even once? If so, does that mean you can't be trusted, ever again? Of course it doesn't. I doubt that there is anyone on earth who hasn't told a lie. That doesn't mean nobody can be believed, and I can still believe some of them, no matter what political party they are in. On the other hand, if someone lies 5 times per day, I'm not believing a word they say, no matter what party they belong to.

If someone who is responsible for my well being which all politicians are if you lie once on major policy/events/etc then yeah I see them all the same.  

There is a big difference between you telling me you didn't eat the last piece of Pizza and the lies the politicians give us.  Also, the next time you tell me that I put you in the same class as anyone else that has lied to me.

 

Of course I have lied and everyone has but I don't control your life.

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2 minutes ago, Daywalker said:

Just not how the world works.

How does the world work? 

I'm sure you don't go back to a company that lies about the cost of a repair, payment, feature, etc.  

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33 minutes ago, urbanhack said:

No one before trump and no one after him will ever lie, misdirect, fabricate, distract like he does. Biden isn't even in the same ball park.

Exactly...its not an all politicians lie thing...he has gone above and beyond them and its not close.

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9 minutes ago, zDragon said:

If someone who is responsible for my well being which all politicians are if you lie once on major policy/events/etc then yeah I see them all the same.  

There is a big difference between you telling me you didn't eat the last piece of Pizza and the lies the politicians give us.  Also, the next time you tell me that I put you in the same class as anyone else that has lied to me.

 

Of course I have lied and everyone has but I don't control your life.

Similarly, there is a big difference between Trump and Biden or Hillary. You really think either would have the record of false statements just on COVID19 that Trump does? Not to mention all the other lies he has been caught up in over his Presidency. Mt. Everest and the Empire State Building are both tall but that by no means makes them equivalent.

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, zDragon said:

So your saying if it is your guy it is ok to lie? What sets apart one person that lies a lot and one person that way more than that and openly?

We should not accept any of these people but the "but it is my guy and their lies are not bad" is a deep rooted problem we have right now.

Nobody is saying what you claim...stop putting words in people's mouths.

Quite clearly people are stating one is a compulsive liar who has lied more than any of them.  To the point you can't trust a single thing that comes out of his mouth.

The deep rooted problem is his dishonesty...not that people don't believe him or trust him.  Its not about Biden or Hillary or anyone...I trust Pence far more than I would ever trust Trump at this point and I stand against nearly everything policy wise out of Pence.

Edited by sho nuff
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25 minutes ago, zDragon said:

So your saying if it is your guy it is ok to lie? What sets apart one person that lies a lot and one person that way more than that and openly?

We should not accept any of these people but the "but it is my guy and their lies are not bad" is a deep rooted problem we have right now.

No.  And I don't have "a guy."  Biden is a horrible candidate for many reasons.  Yes, we all know politicians get caught in lies. That has always happened and will continue to happen.  But when it's done at the velocity, frequency and intent of trump to purposely misdirect...you are talking about an entirely different paradigm.  There is no comparison.

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, zDragon said:

How does the world work? 

I'm sure you don't go back to a company that lies about the cost of a repair, payment, feature, etc.  

You have co-workers, vendors and customers.  Sometimes you BS to cover up how the sausage is made and we all know we do it to each other.  But as long as we have a basis of trust and are working towards the same goal we accept it.

Politics is a business.  The same thing.  Not some altruistic endeavor. 

If you would trust Donald Trump equally as say John Kasich or John McCain then I don't know what to tell you.

 

Edited by Daywalker
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32 minutes ago, zDragon said:

Why would you trust one over the other?  Once you have established you will lie about an event, policy, etc. Why would you assume they would not lie to you in the future or you know of all the lies they have already told you.

Since everyone lies sometimes doesn't it make sense to judge people on the frequency, intent and level of deceit of those lies?

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, zDragon said:

If someone who is responsible for my well being which all politicians are if you lie once on major policy/events/etc then yeah I see them all the same.  

There is a big difference between you telling me you didn't eat the last piece of Pizza and the lies the politicians give us.  Also, the next time you tell me that I put you in the same class as anyone else that has lied to me.

 

Of course I have lied and everyone has but I don't control your life.

Now you're the one differentiating between levels of lies. Clearly, all lies are not the same, as you acknowledge. The fact that others draw the line between levels of lies at a different place than you do doesn't mean they're arguing "my guy v. your guy" as you claimed.

Edited by apalmer

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It also goes much beyond lies with Trump. He’s impossible to respect. This pettiness with governors just his latest crap. 

It’s his “brand” or whatever. I’ll take a new brand.

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Much of the fears about how bad this is going to get have come from models. There is reason to believe some the assumptions used to build the original Imperial Model may not be correct. All the people croaking and calling Trump anti-science might be eating crow if/when the UK does anti-body research trying to figure out how many people actually have, or have already had covid19.

 

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1 minute ago, cloppbeast said:

Much of the fears about how bad this is going to get have come from models. There is reason to believe some the assumptions used to build the original Imperial Model may not be correct. All the people croaking and calling Trump anti-science might be eating crow if/when the UK does anti-body research trying to figure out how many people actually have, or have already had covid19.

 

The UK that is on lockdown now? That UK?

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4 minutes ago, msommer said:

The UK that is on lockdown now? That UK?

No, I think he means the UK where the Prime Minister, Director of the Health Ministry and heir to the throne have all contracted the disease.

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1 minute ago, apalmer said:

No, I think he means the UK where the Prime Minister, Director of the Health Ministry and heir to the throne have all contracted the disease.

It's possible, there are almost as many UKs as Mexicos

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, msommer said:

The UK that is on lockdown now? That UK?

Good one. 

Yes the UK is on lockdown due to the one model, but they did take covid19 of their high consequence infectious disease list citing low death rates. Also to their credit (hopefully) they will do research to get more accurate forecasts, instead of destroying their economy based on a worst case scenario off limited information. 

Edited by cloppbeast

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1 minute ago, cloppbeast said:

Good one. 

Yes the UK is on lockdown due to the one model, but they did take covid19 of their high consequence infectious disease list citing low death rates. Also to their credit (hopefully) they will do research to get more accurate forecasts, instead of destroying their economy based on a worst case scenario off limited information. 

Weird point...the whole shutting down the economy is spread it out to not overwhelm hospitals and medical staff.  If you just this run amok people would be dying on the sidewalks outside the hospital.  That's not a model prediction that's a fact of what is happening

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