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Government Response To The Coronavirus (9 Viewers)

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Challenge Everything said:
The original conversation Tim and Don't Noonan were having was between them two. Noonan said something, Tim didn't think it was accurate, Noonan found where he heard it and replied to Tim. Noonan never acknowledged you within the conversation he and Tim were having. Noonan linked the appropriate article for their discussion.

You began a different discussion with Tim, which, per the posts, Tim presumed you were discussing the same article, ie quote, Noonan was having with Tim. You posted an article from a different website, a different time frame, and a different time altogether. The quote Noonan and Tim were discussing is not even in the article you posted. The only quote from Jan. 21, from your linked article has a link within that quote which goes to a totally different article that did not come into play on page 218-219.

Go read page 218 again if you think I'm taking things out of order. It's not crappy of me to simply go back and see, in real time, how the discussion ran. Throughout that page, Noonan never quoted you and unless he wrote your name in a post, never acknowledged you either. His discussion was with Tim and, again, you chimed in from left field putting your two-cents in when you weren't even on the same topic.
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Yes everyone who cares (its likely that few do) should go reference page 218 because it's all there in chronological order. Tim casts his disbelief and I gave him a link BEFORE Don't Noonan could find one to back up what he heard on TV.

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/783982-government-response-to-the-coronavirus/page/218/#comments

You have a lot of things wrong. DN didn't come up with a link prior to me and DN wasn't referring to an article when he first shared what Fauci said. He was referring to a segment he saw on TV. He was very open about that. Tim was requesting proof that Fauci said those things and I found it in a 30 second Google search.

 
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Haven't been around much, I assume somebody has pointed out the insanity of Trump saying on one hand that it's the states responsibility to deal with it themselves and then confiscating Massachusetts order on the other? When you have Kushner saying that feds masks are theirs, not ours? What in the mf f? We really need to get rid of these idiots. Their idiocy is literally killing innocent Americans en masse.

 
Mr Anonymous said:
Yes everyone who cares (likely few do) should go reference page 218 because it's all there in chronological order. Tim casts his disbelief and I gave him a link BEFORE Don't Noonan could find one to back up what he heard on TV.

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/783982-government-response-to-the-coronavirus/page/218/#comments
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Again, you and Tim's conversation is/was not the same as the one Tim and Noonan were having. Just because you brought in a link before Noonan doesn't absolve you from butting into someone elses conversation. You brought information into a discussion that did not involve you nor the information you brought in.

 
Challenge Everything said:
Again, you and Tim's conversation is/was not the same as the one Tim and Noonan were having. Just because you brought in a link before Noonan doesn't absolve you from butting into someone elses conversation. You brought information into a discussion that did not involve you nor the information you brought in.
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Lol I didn't know threads here could be closed to two people. Tim asked for something and I was able to provide it. What would you call what you're doing right now? Think about the mental gymnastics you're doing right now.

 
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Challenge Everything said:
Again, you and Tim's conversation is/was not the same as the one Tim and Noonan were having. Just because you brought in a link before Noonan doesn't absolve you from butting into someone elses conversation. You brought information into a discussion that did not involve you nor the information you brought in.
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People butt into conversations all the time here. It’s a message board. 

 
Challenge Everything said:
Again, you and Tim's conversation is/was not the same as the one Tim and Noonan were having. Just because you brought in a link before Noonan doesn't absolve you from butting into someone elses conversation. You brought information into a discussion that did not involve you nor the information you brought in.
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Username checks out

 
Mr Anonymous said:
Lol I didn't know threads here could be closed to two people. Tim asked for something and I was able to provide it. What would you call what you're doing right now? Think about the mental gymnastics you're doing right now.
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Threads are not open to only two people however the topic Noonan had on his mind appeared to be different from yours. There is evidence of this because he linked up an article that related to their conversation. Mental gymnastics? On this page, 221, I have been nothing but cordial to you and wrote out a response that backed up the timeline. I would think it would appear that I am trying to clear the air a bit. Disregarding my appropriate posts on this page with that attempt in mind, I have not put you down, I have not put Noonan or Tim down, and I have, again, been cordial. Using the words you just used do not help your case and, in fact, if you may, really make you look bad. An apology should be in order.

John Blutarsky said:
People butt into conversations all the time here. It’s a message board. 
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People do, as is expected, I'd presume. However, the quotes being used with the discussion between the two on page 218, the person butting in with information that is not pertinent to the original discussion... maybe the person butting in would acknowledge their errors, accept their errors, and move on. Maybe.

 
Apple Jack said:
Haven't been around much, I assume somebody has pointed out the insanity of Trump saying on one hand that it's the states responsibility to deal with it themselves and then confiscating Massachusetts order on the other? When you have Kushner saying that feds masks are theirs, not ours? What in the mf f? We really need to get rid of these idiots. Their idiocy is literally killing innocent Americans en masse.
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Warren to feds: Why did you take Massachusetts’ medical supplies?

Warren asked Gaynor to explain why the federal government seized the two orders from Massachusetts, and to which state the supplies ultimately went, among a series of other questions in the letter.

 
Challenge Everything said:
Threads are not open to only two people however the topic Noonan had on his mind appeared to be different from yours. There is evidence of this because he linked up an article that related to their conversation. Mental gymnastics? On this page, 221, I have been nothing but cordial to you and wrote out a response that backed up the timeline. I would think it would appear that I am trying to clear the air a bit. Disregarding my appropriate posts on this page with that attempt in mind, I have not put you down, I have not put Noonan or Tim down, and I have, again, been cordial. Using the words you just used do not help your case and, in fact, if you may, really make you look bad. An apology should be in order.

People do, as is expected, I'd presume. However, the quotes being used with the discussion between the two on page 218, the person butting in with information that is not pertinent to the original discussion... maybe the person butting in would acknowledge their errors, accept their errors, and move on. Maybe.
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Did Sho appoint you board cop for the day?

 
dkp993 said:
Guys, WHO CARES at this point.  None of you are moving any other of you off your positions.  Leave it be and let your vote at the ballot box talk. Move on please. There is plenty to talk about that is happening right now, no one can change what did or didn’t happen 2 months ago.   
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It has been pages, let's get back on track.

The Daily had a good podcasts of the responses of different governors and the slow federal responses yesterday that many here would find interesting.

 
dkp993 said:
Guys, WHO CARES at this point.  None of you are moving any other of you off your positions.  Leave it be and let your vote at the ballot box talk. Move on please. There is plenty to talk about that is happening right now, no one can change what did or didn’t happen 2 months ago.   
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But..............Trump!#@$%!

 
Mr Anonymous said:
I'd place more blame at the Trump administration for current decisions than past ones. 
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Let’s move on. I agree with this. Do you agree with me that the main current criticisms are: 

1. Not declaring a national shutdown? 

2. Not using the DPA to control distribution? 

 
timschochet said:
1. Not declaring a national shutdown

2. Not using the DPA to control distribution
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Expanding on these, and putting aside the past: Dr. Fauci currently believes we should have a national shutdown. President Trump does not. Most experts on TV believe that President Trump should use the DPA to take over distribution of PPE and ventilators. President Trump does not.

On these two issues, President Trump’s reasoning makes no sense to me. If anyone here agrees with Trump on these decisions, can you come in here and explain and defend? Tia. 

 
Mr Anonymous said:
That stance mirrors Fauci at the time. What did you expect Trump's people to say? If the top experts were saying the seasonal flu is more of a concern, (yes Fauci said that) did you expect Trump to stand up and tell everyone to panic? Oh, that's right you probably didn't take a look at those Fauci quotes. Nevermind.

For everyone else...

Trump is screwing this up more today imo, by not mandating made at home masks and face coverings in public. The medicinal masks on the market should be restricted to sales to health providers.

As with worldwide disasters of this scope, there is so much blame to go around. It's a cascade of deceit and errors made that goes something like this in order of sequence: China - WHO - experts - European leaders - US leaders (Trump included) - general public. Anyone could take their bias and write an article (cough, cough WaPo) that lists all the mistakes made by a single entity without putting into context the info that entity was working off of. Heck, someone could write a compelling yet very misleading article listing all the mistakes and blame that should rest on the American public. But that would be pretty misguided now wouldn't it? I mean the public was being told by everyone's favorite expert that this was no bigger concern that the flu just 6 weeks ago. And in the meantime we've had the surgeon general and Fauci follow this sequence when it comes to masks: Useless - Don't wear because they could do more harm than good - They can't hurt -  We recommend them if you want to wear one.

A simpleton looks at all of this and tries to tell you one person is to blame.

Anyone who tries to pin all the blame on one person simply should be ignored right now. I'll go so far as to say that China is the worst offender but that doesn't mean the blame stops there. After all, there are countries very close to China who went the mask route in spite of what China was saying and they fared much better. If only our experts in the US weren't so wrong about this early on. And now Trump is stubbornly poo-pooing the need for everyone to wear masks in public. I get the theory that they're trying to fend off a run on masks that would take them away from health care workers. But just as simple of a fix would be something similar to these proclamations governors are drawing up at a moment's notice. Ban public sales and distribution of manufactured masks and mandate the public only venture outside once they've fashioned a home made face covering. For the slap happy that want to rush in to call me a Trump supporter, that's the 4th time in this post alone that I'm laying blame at his feet. I even put those 4 instances in italics to make it easier for you.
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The irony of that being that a good deal of Trump supporters and his Talking Heads (and I know you're saying you're not one) is that they are trying to pin ANY of the blame on anyone but One Person.

 
timschochet said:
Let’s move on. I agree with this. Do you agree with me that the main current criticisms are: 

1. Not declaring a national shutdown? 

2. Not using the DPA to control distribution? 
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That's pretty close. I'd rank them in this order of most egregious...

1. Not mandating homemade masks/coverings for all people in public beginning yesterday when they finally began recommending them. (I'm not happy his advisers didn't realize the benefit of masks earlier but they know now). If we follow the model of other countries who did this, we can flatten this and bring it under control in 14 days.

2. He should have shut down sales and distribution of masks and PPE to anyone other than health care providers weeks ago whether via DPA or otherwise

3. Not leading by example on masks. He should not have made a point to say he's not going to wear one.

I would've have preferred a national shutdown but I see the argument for state's to decide on their own. I also see an argument that some states (Florida and even New York) should have not been allowed to wait as long as they did.

 
Challenge Everything said:
Fauci in the video: "Obviously you need to take it seriously and do the kinds of things the CDC and the Department of Homeland Security are doing. But, this is not a major threat to the people of the United States and this is not something that the citizens of the United States, right now, should be worried about. - January 21st, 2020
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It's sort of strange (maybe not so, Greg Kelly, Newsmax) that no transcript or video of the full interview beyond that one snip is available. No way to get a feel for context or what else Fauci may have said.

And it's worth remembering that Fauci was not part of the task force at that point - because Trump had not created one by then, he should have. - But given that, Fauci had no duty to alarm or instruct the public about what to do. Maybe his duty then was to do the opposite. That was up to the administration. Fauci is part of one bureau in the NIH in HHS.

I think the Fauci interview on the radio show of host John Catsimatidis - also featured by Fox last night - was just a few days after, but more than a week before Trump's partial travel ban on China.

“It’s a very, very low risk to the United States,” Fauci said during an interview with radio show host John Catsimatidis.

“But it’s something that we as public health officials need to take very seriously... It isn’t something the American public needs to worry about or be frightened about. Because we have ways of preparing and screening of people coming in [from China]. And we have ways of responding - like we did with this one case in Seattle, Washington, who had traveled to China and brought back the infection.”

...“We’ve just got to make sure that we are totally prepared [since] infectious diseases will continue to emerge on the human species. And we’ve got to be essentially perpetually prepared.”
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Again it would be good to hear the full interview and get the full context, and also both hosts posed very leading questions almost daring Fauci to start a panic, which he was in no position to do. 

Both times Fauci described it as something the health leadership needed to take "seriously."

The bigger question is what were Fauci and others in HHS, NIH, CDC & the IC telling the President and other leadership in briefings. We need to see that because that is far more relevant.

 
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Mr Anonymous said:
That's pretty close. I'd rank them in this order of most egregious...

1. Not mandating homemade masks/coverings for all people in public beginning yesterday when they finally began recommending them. (I'm not happy his advisers didn't realize the benefit of masks earlier but they know now). If we follow the model of other countries who did this, we can flatten this and bring it under control in 14 days.

2. He should have shut down sales and distribution of masks and PPE to anyone other than health care providers weeks ago whether via DPA or otherwise

3. Not leading by example on masks. He should not have made a point to say he's not going to wear one.

I would've have preferred a national shutdown but I see the argument for state's to decide on their own. I also see an argument that some states (Florida and even New York) should have not been allowed to wait as long as they did.
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What is the argument for states to decide on their own? I don’t get it.

 
timschochet said:
What is the argument for states to decide on their own? I don’t get it.
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State's rights, their ability to gauge their local situations more accurately, recognizing some states are so sparsely populated that coronavirus is a non-issue there. Even Cuomo was making this argument at the outset. I'm not against a national shutdown, I would choose one, but I can see the arguments against it. Shutting down interstate travel could have been a middle-road option as well.

 
Mr Anonymous said:
State's rights, their ability to gauge their local situations more accurately, recognizing some states are so sparsely populated that coronavirus is a non-issue there. Even Cuomo was making this argument at the outset. I'm not against a national shutdown, I would choose one, but I can see the arguments against it. Shutting down interstate travel could have been a middle-road option as well.
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None of those arguments seem valid to me. A virus doesn’t restrict itself to state borders. There is a reason that we have a federal government and this sort of crisis is it. 

 
March 3 to March 13 was a critical period in the USA to flatten the curve early. On March 3, restrictions were lifted on COVID-19 testing and there were 3,000 deaths globally including some in the USA. On March 11, WHO declared the pandemic and Trump blocked travel from Europe, but not UK. I'm March 13, Trump declared a national emergency. 

On March 8, the mayor of Miami, Francisco Suarez, cancelled Calle Ocho and Ultra music festival, but the mayor of Miami-Dade County said he disagreed, mainly due to economic considerations and it wasn't that bad. Luckily Fracisco had final say.

In Florida, there were still gatherings of Spring Breakers after March 13.

Who's to blame for the slow action?

 
Biff84 said:
But every state wants to test as many people as they can but haven’t had the access to enough tests to do anything like SK did.
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I don't know if this is true or not (there are still states that think it's ok to wander around as people see fit), but let's say it is, "want to" isn't enough sadly.  Our government is doing us no favors by making states battle other states and the rest of the world for supplies.  It's one of the more disgusting things about this whole thing IMO.  Knowing that, it seems those who focused on testing/prevention early are ahead of the game.  For example, from day one, Florida has had a goal of having a minimum of 3 drive up testing sites.  Remember when Trump said that Walmart and/or Walgreens were going to have all those drive up testing sites?  We had one functioning before it ever came out of his mouth.  Somehow DeSantis figured it out and got things rolling.  It took a while to get the others running, but they are running...north, central and south all have XXX amount per day they can do...once out, they shut down for the day.  It's been a big deal to get that running.  Meanwhile I think there are 5-6 locations at Walmarts and Walgreens that Trump has accomplished...out of tens of thousands of stores.

 
SoBeDad said:
March 3 to March 13 was a critical period in the USA to flatten the curve early. On March 3, restrictions were lifted on COVID-19 testing and there were 3,000 deaths globally including some in the USA. On March 11, WHO declared the pandemic and Trump blocked travel from Europe, but not UK. I'm March 13, Trump declared a national emergency. 

On March 8, the mayor of Miami, Francisco Suarez, cancelled Calle Ocho and Ultra music festival, but the mayor of Miami-Dade County said he disagreed, mainly due to economic considerations and it wasn't that bad. Luckily Fracisco had final say.

In Florida, there were still gatherings of Spring Breakers after March 13.

Who's to blame for the slow action?
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DeSantis lacked leadership at the state level mirroring the lack of leadership at the federal level. He left the localities to close beaches before he made a statewide decision.

 
The Commish said:
I don't know if this is true or not (there are still states that think it's ok to wander around as people see fit), but let's say it is, "want to" isn't enough sadly.  Our government is doing us no favors by making states battle other states and the rest of the world for supplies.  It's one of the more disgusting things about this whole thing IMO.  Knowing that, it seems those who focused on testing/prevention early are ahead of the game.  For example, from day one, Florida has had a goal of having a minimum of 3 drive up testing sites.  Remember when Trump said that Walmart and/or Walgreens were going to have all those drive up testing sites?  We had one functioning before it ever came out of his mouth.  Somehow DeSantis figured it out and got things rolling.  It took a while to get the others running, but they are running...north, central and south all have XXX amount per day they can do...once out, they shut down for the day.  It's been a big deal to get that running.  Meanwhile I think there are 5-6 locations at Walmarts and Walgreens that Trump has accomplished...out of tens of thousands of stores.
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Trump might as well have put Uber in charge of the suplies. Surge pricing... those willing to pay it get the supplies. 

 
timschochet said:
None of those arguments seem valid to me. A virus doesn’t restrict itself to state borders. There is a reason that we have a federal government and this sort of crisis is it. 
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Shutting down travel from state to state would be the equivalent of countries closing their borders in Europe. The peeing in the pool example doesn't hold water if the water can't flow freely from state to state. Some states may never warrant the need to shut down anything when this is all said and done. Again, I'll remind you that I would have gone with a national shutdown, but there were ways to keep this under control without it.

 
Mr Anonymous said:
Shutting down travel from state to state would be the equivalent of countries closing their borders in Europe. The peeing in the pool example doesn't hold water if the water can't flow freely from state to state. Some states may never warrant the need to shut down anything when this is all said and done. Again, I'll remind you that I would have gone with a national shutdown, but there were ways to keep this under control without it.
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True.... but given we didn't do any of them, so what?

 
SoBeDad said:
March 3 to March 13 was a critical period in the USA to flatten the curve early. On March 3, restrictions were lifted on COVID-19 testing and there were 3,000 deaths globally including some in the USA. On March 11, WHO declared the pandemic and Trump blocked travel from Europe, but not UK. I'm March 13, Trump declared a national emergency. 

On March 8, the mayor of Miami, Francisco Suarez, cancelled Calle Ocho and Ultra music festival, but the mayor of Miami-Dade County said he disagreed, mainly due to economic considerations and it wasn't that bad. Luckily Fracisco had final say.

In Florida, there were still gatherings of Spring Breakers after March 13.

Who's to blame for the slow action?
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The buck stops at the president.  This should have been shutdown way earlier.  Didn't Francisco end up with COVID 19 too?

 
timschochet said:
None of those arguments seem valid to me. A virus doesn’t restrict itself to state borders. There is a reason that we have a federal government and this sort of crisis is it. 
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I fully agree. Pandemics and war are the two times that policy should be explicitly federal. There are no border concerns regarding states that the union doesn't take priority over. 

 
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I love the 9th and 10th amendments. If anyone wants to see the federalism argument on this fall apart in a nanosecond try to follow Trump try to rationalize Sonny’s reverse triple Lindy explanation of how the national stockpile reserve is really “their” federal reserve... which doesn’t belong to the states but belongs to the feds so they can get it to the states.... which is a complete negation of Sonny’s point that it doesn’t belong to the states at all.

 
JamieMurphy said:
Who is biting the bullet and recapping the press conference for those of us who can't stomach the bs?
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I can tell probably 80% of what is said at these without watching at this point.

No one ever saw this coming. Shelves were left bare. Tremendous things are happening. A couple tantrums. We are doing things greater than had ever been seen. Blah, blah, blah.

 
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