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Hot Sauce Guy

Several Cowboys & Texans Test Positive for COVID19

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Just now, Blackbear said:

I got you. I understand. But lay off the sophomoric #### about how this isn’t an issue. My point is that it is still in its infancy. And there are tougher roads ahead. So lay off it. 

This is a huge issue.  And things are definitely going to get worse.  But in terms of whats being discussed in this particular thread, it's about nfl players getting diagnose with it.  99.99% of them won't even have more then a few days of a cough.  It will only make them more immune to it during the season.  I'm as far as you can get from saying covid is no big deal.... while still respecting the actual numbers and science behind it, and the risk it poses to Zeke and his teammates.

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1 minute ago, Deamon said:

This is a huge issue.  And things are definitely going to get worse.  But in terms of whats being discussed in this particular thread, it's about nfl players getting diagnose with it.  99.99% of them won't even have more then a few days of a cough.  It will only make them more immune to it during the season.  I'm as far as you can get from saying covid is no big deal.... while still respecting the actual numbers and science behind it, and the risk it poses to Zeke and his teammates.

I agree. Let’s let it go. 

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6 hours ago, Blackbear said:

I agree. Let’s let it go. 

Agreed. Please let this go. There are pages and pages of threads and discussion about this topic on the Free For All and Political Boards.

For the Shark Pool forum, let's please keep this, like we try to keep every topic here, 100% on NFL. Thanks.

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9 hours ago, Deamon said:

AGAIN (falling on deaf ears here), 3% of ALL cases.... not NFL players.  and 1% Mortality rate of ALL cases..... 

It's actually far less than 1%. One small anecdotal incident (a cruise ship) is probably not the best way to process the data we actually have. Also 40% of all deaths in this country have occurred in nursing homes. We need to re-focus our approach to this virus and protect the most vulnerable. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Dr. Octopus said:

It's actually far less than 1%. One small anecdotal incident (a cruise ship) is probably not the best way to process the data we actually have. Also 40% of all deaths in this country have occurred in nursing homes. We need to re-focus our approach to this virus and protect the most vulnerable. 

So the reason the cruise ship was an interesting sample is specifically because of the mix of ages (mostly young to middle aged) diversity of the people ethnically & the duration, plus the fact that it was a closed environment.

these are important factors to consider, and shed light on what we might see at an NFL training camp facility.

But no one clicked the link. No one read the study.

the narrative continues that because we are talking about NFL athletes that somehow math doesn’t apply. As if the virus is going to go door to door interviewing these guys like “knock knock...oh, you play football? You’re 27 & in great health? Well ok then. Never mind, here, have an asymptomatic case.”

Pandemics don’t work that way for football players or anyone else I’m afraid.

We’ll know more when more players have it. Like society at large, some will end up in ICU. Most will be unaffected or effected only mildly.

The flaw in looking at a pandemic by only looking at those who were only moderately effected is that it tends to minimize the risk in people’s minds. “It’s not that bad, because X population isn’t at risk” or “y population is only at .5% risk.”

For one, it’s flawed because even .5% is 1 in every 200 players dying. .25% = 1 in every 400. It’s still an unacceptably high number to risk. 

The other flaw is looking at categories of humans divided by age and assuming those % will hold, because that’s what we saw early on. The early numbers were skewed by where outbreaks occurred. When elderly care facilities were impacted we lost a vast number of seniors in one crushing blow. Since that happened numbers have normalized. We now know young people & healthy people are getting COVID & dying from it, but not at the extreme % of an elderly care facility.  But also not nothing. Young people aren’t immune. 

Anyone who’s taken statistics should understand the coin flip. If you flip a coin 100x and it comes up heads 100x, what are the odds of it coming up tails on the 101st flip? 
A: exactly the same as the odds on the 1st flip or 29th flip or the 73rd flip.

COVID is like that. Every person who contracts this virus has a virtual/theoretical coin flipping.

Will they be asymptomatic?  Will they contract mild symptoms? Will they require oxygen? Will they require hospitalization? Will they need a ventilator? 

Case by case, we will see how it breaks down for NFL players. The reality is that we don’t have the data yet. What we do know is that age is only one factor of why COVID effects some people more than others. Race, health risks, prior medical issues or predispositions make it impossible to make a generalization about what will happen when a large swath of NFL players contract this virus. And even with age as a factor, player ages are a range as well.

And math says that if “herd immunity” is to be tested, a % of NFL players will succumb to this disease. We don’t know what those % are.

but we do know that people mocking the subject & making light of say, 1 player who popped positive & is asymptomatic, is partly why society at large isn’t taking this pandemic seriously enough. 

Also the fallacy of large numbers. People have a hard time conceiving of things that happen at a massive scale, yet not universally. So while 330,000,000 Americans will agree that the sun rose today, 330,000,000 Americans can’t agree that 2 million cases is a lot. Because compared to the ginormous 1st number even 2 million sounds small. 

what we as a society need to do is to pretend that number is flipped. To go about our daily lives as though we all have COVID19, and take precautions against spreading it. That way we can get it under control & I can stop feeling like Sheriff Brody in Jaws arguing that the beaches should stay closed for July 4th.

as a society we need more Mrs. Kintners & fewer Mayor Larry Vaughns. :shrug: 

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy

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Owners are apparently going to see today some concepts related to safety measures. One is putting a tarp over lower 6-8 rows for safety and selling ads on the tarps to local businesses to offset lost ticket revenue.

Looking for more info, I found this, which is sort of interesting to me. SeatGeek is selling  products now that includes  figuring out social distance seating at different occupancy levels.
https://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2020/06/22/Facilities/SeatGeek.aspx?hl=nfl&sc=0

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11 minutes ago, Mystery Achiever said:

Owners are apparently going to see today some concepts related to safety measures. One is putting a tarp over lower 6-8 rows for safety and selling ads on the tarps to local businesses to offset lost ticket revenue.

Why am I not shocked that NFL owners concern is capitalizing their response?  I wonder how much time will he spent on that over safety. Maybe I’m just cynical.

Quote

Looking for more info, I found this, which is sort of interesting to me. SeatGeek is selling  products now that includes  figuring out social distance seating at different occupancy levels.
https://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2020/06/22/Facilities/SeatGeek.aspx?hl=nfl&sc=0

It’s interesting, but I’m more concerned with common areas & pinch points than butts in seats.

also concerned about the stadium workers. Most concession areas I’ve seen are tight spaces. 

Those people will be more at risk than the family of 4 in the stands.  Will be interesting to see how this impacts them, and what, if any, additional measures will be adopted to keep stadium & concession workers safe. 

For example, at my farmers markets, workers aren’t allowed to both handle money & produce. I’m lucky since my product is in glass & has waterproof labeling, but the dude selling broccoli & spinach now has to have a dedicated cashier & a dedicated produce handler.

i’m curious as to how the NFL handles this. If I were working on the project I might suggest something like “in-seat ordering” where fans could use an app. that would eliminate concessions lines, and reduce the contact between concessions workers & the public, while also eliminating cash from the equation. 💡 

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Posted (edited)

They just cancelled the Hall of Fame game and delayed enshrinement (didn't catch til when)

eta- enshrinement will be 2021..assume combined with next year's class.

Edited by Mystery Achiever
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5 minutes ago, Mystery Achiever said:

They just cancelled the Hall of Fame game and delayed enshrinement (didn't catch til when)

I do 10-12 festivals a year. 

I just got word that both an October & a December festival have been cancelled.

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8 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

It’s interesting, but I’m more concerned with common areas & pinch points than butts in seats.

Common areas are definitely an issue, but don't underestimate seating. Some stadiums aren't fully outdoor (roofs) and you're talking about sitting next to the same group of people for about four hours, many who will be shouting and cheering.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

I never said the ages of the people on the ship. The person you quoted hilariously doesn’t let that interfere with his preferred narrative though. :rolleyes:
 

someone on twitter asked what the average age was. Here’s the response. 
“The Antarctica cruise is not like your regular cruise. The type of people who go on this are very healthy. There are many families with teenage and older kids. Many young people.

oops? 

Link to the full paper at the bottom if you’d like to get legitimate information:

————————————

other highlights:

Fascinating: There were 10 rooms shared by 2 people in which 1 developed COVID, & 1 didn’t despite sleeping & staying in same room for >30 days! 

- Is everyone susceptible?
- Will negatives be positive later?
- Will negatives get antibodies or not?

In this study, everyone in the ship was tested & no external contact. 

Many other insights. 

-Screening for fever and symptoms not enough. 
- First symptoms on Day 8 means long presymptomatic phase
-60% got infected despite good precautions; it’s a highly contagious virus. 
 

What’s really important is even if only 3% of people who get COVID get very ill and need intubation, that is still a huge number for the health care system of any country to handle. 

1% mortality rate is more than any of us can bear. It’s a huge loss of life. 


——————-

https://thorax.bmj.com/content/early/2020/06/09/thoraxjnl-2020-215091

Based on your article, everybody who got significantly ill was over the age of 65. 81% were asymptomatic of the passengers who tested positive .. This happened back in  March. We have learned a ton since then. There was cross contamination in some cases supporting my high viral load theory. This was a relatively small ship.

The average age of an NFL player is around 26.  The NFL will be going into the season with a plan unlike the ship to Antarctica. I'm thinking the air circulation on the ship didn't help things. The players will not be living on top of each other.

Are you basing the age of passengers just on a Tweet?

I would hope the players will get more serious about Covid as we get closer to the season. It's no surprise that many of those infected already did so in the nations hotspots. 

Edited by Mongidig
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3 minutes ago, Mongidig said:

Based on your article, everybody who got significantly ill was over the age of 65. 81% were asymptomatic of the passengers who tested positive .. This happened back in  March. We have learned a ton since then. There was cross contamination in some cases supporting my high viral load theory. This was a relatively small ship.

The average age of an NFL player is around 26.  The NFL will be going into the season with a plan unlike the ship to Antarctica. I'm thinking the air circulation on the ship didn't help things. The players will not be living on top of each other.

Are you basing the age of passengers just on a Tweet?

Yeah I only saw ages mentioned for 4 of the 8 that had to be medically evacuated. 68 (2x) 65, and 70. 

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20 minutes ago, Mongidig said:

Are you basing the age of passengers just on a Tweet?

I would hope the players will get more serious about Covid as we get closer to the season. It's no surprise that many of those infected already did so in the nations hotspots. 

no, I read the study. But there was additional discussion of age in the twitter thread. 

again - it’s not the end-all be-all of knowledge. Just one more window into understanding.

are you saying no players are at risk because they have an average age of “around 26”?

you should check out what’s happening to the 18-29 demographic in Florida right now. 

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Posted (edited)

We need to stop obsessing over mortality and start obsessing over contagiousness. 

While keeping it on football. I promise I'll circle this to the NFL.

This thing doesn't seem to manifest itself in such a way that one or two people get it and test positive. If there is one there will be ten. There is nearly a two week incubation period on this so anything that you find out now is going to represent a delayed signal in the data. 

That is maybe the single most difficult aspect of this virus in terms of managers and leaders to plan around.

If a couple players, coaches or staff on a team test positive, you can rest assured a dozen or so others will, too. I'd like to believe the NFL can play their season with micromanaging positive cases and isolating them. But the reality is that it will have already been too late if it gets to that point. 

You can't have a team keep playing if they have a mini outbreak in their club. And if that happens to one team, is the rest of the league *really* going to keep playing?

I just don't see it.

Edited by barackdhouse
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6 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

 

no, I read the study. But there was additional discussion of age in the twitter thread. 

again - it’s not the end-all be-all of knowledge. Just one more window into understanding.

are you saying no players are at risk because they have an average age of “around 26”?

you should check out what’s happening to the 18-29 demographic in Florida right now. 

I'm saying most of the players in the NFL are not in the high risk group regarding getting significantly ill.

I think the Cruise ship example is not even close to comparable to the NFL.

I am aware that 18-29 year olds are exposing themselves at a high rate. I'm also aware that this age group doesn't suffer the effects of Covid like the older folks do unless they have health issues.

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3 minutes ago, barackdhouse said:

We need to stop obsessing over mortality and start obsessing over contagiousness. 

While keeping it on football. I promise I'll circle this to the NFL.

This thing doesn't seem to manifest itself in such a way that one or two people get it and test positive. If there is one there will be ten. There is nearly a two week incubation period on this so anything that you find out now is going to represent a delayed signal in the data. 

That is maybe the single most difficult aspect of this virus in terms of managers and leaders to plan around.

If a couple players, coaches or staff on a team test positive, you can rest assured a dozen or so others will, too. I'd like to believe the NFL can play their season with micromanaging positive cases and isolating them. But the reality is that it will have already been too late if it gets to that point. 

You can't have a team keep playing if they have a mini outbreak in their club. And if that happens to one team, is the rest of the league *really* going to keep playing?

I just don't see it.

There could be up to a two week incubation. The average time of getting the infection is five days.

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1 minute ago, Mongidig said:

There could be up to a two week incubation. The average time of getting the infection is five days.

That is correct. I should have been more clear it is a range. But 5 days is an eternity with how contagious this is. 

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So yeah it's not just about the health of the players. Coaches, staff, admin, stadium crews, press, tv, other support staff. If it hits one it will hit ten. And so on. If we're going to obsess over the risk level of the athletes, understand that managers are thinking about all of them. There are plenty of high risk people involved in making the 2020 NFL season happen. Leaders know this. It won't take much at all to postpone or cancel this season. 

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11 minutes ago, barackdhouse said:

So yeah it's not just about the health of the players. Coaches, staff, admin, stadium crews, press, tv, other support staff. If it hits one it will hit ten. And so on. If we're going to obsess over the risk level of the athletes, understand that managers are thinking about all of them. There are plenty of high risk people involved in making the 2020 NFL season happen. Leaders know this. It won't take much at all to postpone or cancel this season. 

I agree with your logic and just want to add the NFL has the benefit of seeing what happens as the NBA and NHL try to restart.  If those leagues can't pull it off -and there have already been rashes of outbreaks in the 5 seconds after they merely reopened facilities- the NFL surely won't be able to either.  

Honestly this all gets more depressing by the day.  

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53 minutes ago, Mongidig said:

I am aware that 18-29 year olds are exposing themselves at a high rate. I'm also aware that this age group doesn't suffer the effects of Covid like the older folks do unless they have health issues.

It’s not the exposure. It’s the ICUs filling up with 18-29 year-olds in AZ, FL, TX & other places that have relaxed restrictions. 

thats why it compares directly to NFL players, who as you point out average 26 years old. seems important.

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37 minutes ago, Vandelay said:

I agree with your logic and just want to add the NFL has the benefit of seeing what happens as the NBA and NHL try to restart.  If those leagues can't pull it off -and there have already been rashes of outbreaks in the 5 seconds after they merely reopened facilities- the NFL surely won't be able to either.  
 

agreed - I said pages ago that the NFL is a bit lucky with timing. This hit right after the Super Bowl. Of all the sports, they have the best timing. 

that said, they also have one of the weaker players unions, and greediest owners. And there’s arguably more $ involved than any other league.

As we’ve seen, money & power isn’t an awesome recipe for “best practices” decision-making. 

37 minutes ago, Vandelay said:

Honestly this all gets more depressing by the day.  

Agreed. It a sucks. 

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59 minutes ago, Mongidig said:

There could be up to a two week incubation. The average time of getting the infection is five days.

Last I read it was 3 days on average from exposure to symptomatic. 

the 2-week number is the scariest because that’s 2 weeks+ that players could have it, spread it and not know it. 

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18 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

 

It’s not the exposure. It’s the ICUs filling up with 18-29 year-olds in AZ, FL, TX & other places that have relaxed restrictions. 

thats why it compares directly to NFL players, who as you point out average 26 years old. seems important.

Link for the data on Fla ICU demographics?

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Just now, Cobbler1 said:

Link for the data on Fla ICU demographics?

It’s what’s being reported on the news, along with 36,000+ new cases country-wife in 1 day. 
 

I have it on in the background while I pack orders. 

it’s hard to link to my television but I’m sure you have google. Type “g-o-o-g-l-e” and you’ll see a little box you can search for things with. It’s a whole world of information. 

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Important for consideration - humanity over fantasy sports. This writer is talking about baseball, but she gets it. 

her point of “don’t talk about X player coming down with COVID as “it’s bad for my fantasy team” - spot on. These are people. Some will get sick. Some more than others. 

as fantasy “managers” it’s easy to fall into that trap. I’m going to try to avoid it myself. 

https://twitter.com/eireanndolan/status/1276193726843555845?s=21

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3 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

It’s what’s being reported on the news, along with 36,000+ new cases country-wife in 1 day. 
 

I have it on in the background while I pack orders. 

it’s hard to link to my television but I’m sure you have google. Type “g-o-o-g-l-e” and you’ll see a little box you can search for things with. It’s a whole world of information. 

Got it so you don’t have an accurate source you can share it’s just something you heard in the background while doing something else but then decided to post here as if it’s a concrete fact.

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1 hour ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

 

no, I read the study. But there was additional discussion of age in the twitter thread. 

again - it’s not the end-all be-all of knowledge. Just one more window into understanding.

are you saying no players are at risk because they have an average age of “around 26”?

you should check out what’s happening to the 18-29 demographic in Florida right now. 

All players are at risk of GETTING IT.  Very very few are at risk of anything more than a cough for a few days.  Maybe 1 in a million players are at risk of death. 

How many in the 18-29 Florida demographic are extremely ill and had no prior conditions and have the best health care?  Probably not many, if any.

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37 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

 

It’s not the exposure. It’s the ICUs filling up with 18-29 year-olds in AZ, FL, TX & other places that have relaxed restrictions. 

thats why it compares directly to NFL players, who as you point out average 26 years old. seems important.

Completely false. 

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4 minutes ago, Deamon said:

All players are at risk of GETTING IT.  Very very few are at risk of anything more than a cough for a few days.  Maybe 1 in a million players are at risk of death. 

How many in the 18-29 Florida demographic are extremely ill and had no prior conditions and have the best health care?  Probably not many, if any.

Many NFL players have prior conditions.

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17 minutes ago, Cobbler1 said:

Got it so you don’t have an accurate source you can share it’s just something you heard in the background while doing something else but then decided to post here as if it’s a concrete fact.

No, I’m just not keen on sea lions. Have a nice day. 

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Just now, CalBear said:

Many NFL players have prior conditions.

i'm not talking "asthma".  I'm talking severe conditions that are putting these people in ICU's.  The people in their age group being put in the ICU are almost all prior conditions.  If every NFL player got Covid, I'd put good money down that not a single one's life would be in danger.  In fact, looking at stats, not a single one of them would even be intubated, or put in the ICU.  And we aren't talking "0 to maybe 1".  We're talking it would take 500 NFL leagues at 1700 players each to have one person's life in danger.

This is not a binary case of people taking it too seriously or not seriously enough.  I've stated many times my stance on the severity of Covid and how I believe most people are not taking this seriously enough.  But since this is an NFL thread, that is talking ONLY ABOUT NFL PLAYERS WHO HAVE COVID, this is a very very very tiny issue for them... but huge for many other groups.

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Just now, Deamon said:

i'm not talking "asthma".  I'm talking severe conditions that are putting these people in ICU's.  The people in their age group being put in the ICU are almost all prior conditions.  If every NFL player got Covid, I'd put good money down that not a single one's life would be in danger.  In fact, looking at stats, not a single one of them would even be intubated, or put in the ICU.  And we aren't talking "0 to maybe 1".  We're talking it would take 500 NFL leagues at 1700 players each to have one person's life in danger.

This is not a binary case of people taking it too seriously or not seriously enough.  I've stated many times my stance on the severity of Covid and how I believe most people are not taking this seriously enough.  But since this is an NFL thread, that is talking ONLY ABOUT NFL PLAYERS WHO HAVE COVID, this is a very very very tiny issue for them... but huge for many other groups.

You're just making stuff up.

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Just now, CalBear said:

You're just making stuff up.

Has been since page 1. 

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Just now, CalBear said:

You're just making stuff up.

Not making anything up.  Do you have any stats on that age group and what the death rate is and how many have prior conditions and how many had great healthcare access?  Or are you like Hot Sauce Guy who mentioned a cruise where only old people got critically ill but he ignored those facts when it didn't fit the narrative?

Again, this is not binary.  This is not a "take it too seriously vs not serious enough" debate.  I wear a mask every day.  I social distance.  I take a lot of precautions in my personal and professional life to stop the spread of this because this is serious.  This is not a serious virus at all (based on science) for NFL players.  At all.  This is a very serious virus if an NFL player gets it and it spreads and another outbreak happens (which we're already seeing now).  I'm not denying this at all.  I'm on the side of "covid isn't being taken seriously enough", just as you are.  But the actual death, intubation, ICU, very serious health conditions FOR NFL ATHLETES are as close to 0 as you can possibly get.

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5 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

This thread is ridiculous.

I don't know why it's not in the Politics forum where @Joe Bryant moved it once before.  And then it got remade and still isn't NFL talk.  And then he warned he would move it again, and it's still not NFL talk and is talking about death rates on a cruise ship.

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Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

It’s what’s being reported on the news, along with 36,000+ new cases country-wife in 1 day. 

Country-wives, fortunately, are not very susceptible. The combination of rural air and rugged living has strengthened their immune systems, resulting in an almost non-existent fatality rate. 

:D

Edited by IheartGuinness
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16 minutes ago, Deamon said:

I don't know why it's not in the Politics forum where @Joe Bryant moved it once before.  And then it got remade and still isn't NFL talk.  And then he warned he would move it again, and it's still not NFL talk and is talking about death rates on a cruise ship.


There is legit NFL talk about this matter. In fact, there is an informative thread in the FFA about this very thing ("How will CV affect the NFL?"). In that thread, I just posted the following items:

 

Quote

John Berman
@JohnBerman

JUST NOW: "Football is a nonessential business and so we don't need to do it. So the risk, you know, has to be really eliminated before we -- before I would feel comfortable with going back. "

Saints @MalcolmJenkins  concerned about a return to play

 

Quote

Malcolm Jenkins: Returning to play on “trust system” puts us at risk (ProFootballTalk)

Unlike the NBA, the NFL is not going to be locking players, coaches and others in a “bubble” while trying to play this year. Jenkins noted that increases interactions with people outside of teams and creates other considerations for those needed to make the season happen.

“We kinda end up being on this trust system. The honor system, where we just have to kind of hope that people are social distancing and things like that. And that puts all of us at risk,” Jenkins said. “Not only us as players and who’s in the building, but when you go home to your families. I have parents who I don’t want to get sick. Until we get to the point where we have protocols in place and until we get to a place as a country where we feel safe doing it, we have to understand that football is a nonessential business and so we don’t need to do it. So the risk, you know, has to be really eliminated before we, before I would feel comfortable with going back.”

 

Now ... the question is: how much company does Jenkins have among NFL players? I know it won't be 100%. I would doubt it would even be 50% (at least not right this minute). But is Jenkins truly on an island here or not?

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18 minutes ago, Doug B said:


There is legit NFL talk about this matter. In fact, there is an informative thread in the FFA about this very thing ("How will CV affect the NFL?"). In that thread, I just posted the following items:

 

 

 

Now ... the question is: how much company does Jenkins have among NFL players? I know it won't be 100%. I would doubt it would even be 50% (at least not right this minute). But is Jenkins truly on an island here or not?

I suspect he’s in the vast minority here as I’d guess the majority think they are Superman and even if it were a 1% (it’s not) chance they’d suffer severe consequences from getting it they’d still assume they won’t be the 1% to get it bad. He brings up a good point about worrying about his parents though and if he isn’t willing to avoid contact with them during the season then he should sit out the season and I wouldn’t judge him for it. 

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13 minutes ago, Doug B said:


There is legit NFL talk about this matter. In fact, there is an informative thread in the FFA about this very thing ("How will CV affect the NFL?"). In that thread, I just posted the following items:

 

 

 

Now ... the question is: how much company does Jenkins have among NFL players? I know it won't be 100%. I would doubt it would even be 50% (at least not right this minute). But is Jenkins truly on an island here or not?

It's easy for a guy like Jenkins to say this is not essential business when he has millions in the bank. There is a lot more to this business than just the players and those directly related to the teams. If football doesn't go this year that will crush the economy. I have to think that football is to big to fail. 

I agree with Jenkins regarding the safety measures. The lack of trust and confidence that a safe environment will be provided is real amongst all involved. People in this country better start taking this more seriously and get these numbers down. Ultimately, I think it might be inflated egos of many in this country that might sink this season. There will probably be a decent number of players who will refuse to play. The NFL better get real creative very quickly or this could be a mess.

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1 hour ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

 

It’s not the exposure. It’s the ICUs filling up with 18-29 year-olds in AZ, FL, TX & other places that have relaxed restrictions. 

thats why it compares directly to NFL players, who as you point out average 26 years old. seems important.

I live in Arizona and have not heard anything about ICU's filling up with 18-29 year olds. 

The cases are increasing with this group. 

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2 minutes ago, Doug B said:

Also from the FFA thread:


How did the cancellation of the Hall of Fame Game not make it into this thread? Happened early this morning.

I realize it's "just an exhibition", but still. The Hall of Fame enshrinement ceremony is being postponed, as well.

I wonder how late into the year NFL could delay the season opening? How far into 2021 could they continue to play?

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1 hour ago, Deamon said:

Not making anything up.  Do you have any stats on that age group and what the death rate is and how many have prior conditions and how many had great healthcare access?  Or are you like Hot Sauce Guy who mentioned a cruise where only old people got critically ill but he ignored those facts when it didn't fit the narrative?

Again, this is not binary.  This is not a "take it too seriously vs not serious enough" debate.  I wear a mask every day.  I social distance.  I take a lot of precautions in my personal and professional life to stop the spread of this because this is serious.  This is not a serious virus at all (based on science) for NFL players.  At all.  This is a very serious virus if an NFL player gets it and it spreads and another outbreak happens (which we're already seeing now).  I'm not denying this at all.  I'm on the side of "covid isn't being taken seriously enough", just as you are.  But the actual death, intubation, ICU, very serious health conditions FOR NFL ATHLETES are as close to 0 as you can possibly get.

I think those who exaggerate the numbers unintentionally create more resistance from the deniers. This divide is helping to fuel the spread of the virus. We need to stop the spread of "doom and gloom" and start calling things as they are. There is a tremendous mistrust out there because of the misrepresenting of data. 

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One last time before this thread gets locked.

Keep it to NFL talk. Full stop. There are a bunch of threads in other forums we host where they're talking about everything else related to this obviously very important topic. For here, keep it to NFL or it's going to get locked. 

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1 minute ago, Mongidig said:

I wonder how late into the year NFL could delay the season opening? How far into 2021 could they continue to play?

A few months ago, I had seen something about speculative plans to move the Super Bowl three weeks later to the last weekend in February (from Sun 2/7/2021 to Sun 2/28/2021),  and from there "rebuild" the season as well as possible. Maybe taking back the dead weekend between the conference title games and the Super Bowl, as well.

So, if you throw all that speculation into a blender, and treat the 1982 strike season (9 games) as a "minimum games" case ... the regular season could start as late as the weekend of Dec 6, 2020. That would be no regular season byes and no off weeks during the playoffs.

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14 minutes ago, Mongidig said:

I live in Arizona and have not heard anything about ICU's filling up with 18-29 year olds. 

The cases are increasing with this group. 

What was said about ICUs specifically was that they were approaching 80% capacity after a brief time of flattening the curve & seeing lower numbers. 

Not sure what you’re seeing matters when this is what’s being reported. Maybe you think it’s fake news? And my apologies - it’s 84% capacity as of yesterday. 

Coronavirus hospitalizations in Arizona and Texas have hit record numbers as cases continue to surge in states in the South and the West, overwhelming medical professionals.

Arizona reported a record high of 3,591 new cases Tuesday, with nearly 60,000 known cases in the state overall. The swell in cases came as President Donald Trump held a rally at a Phoenix megachurch Tuesday.

There was a surge in the number of inpatient beds occupied by positive or suspected COVID-19 patients, with 2,136 beds occupied, compared to 1,992 Sunday, according to data from the state's Department of Health Services.

Meanwhile, 84 percent of intensive care unit beds were in use at Arizona hospitals and 83 percent of inpatient beds were in use as of Monday, according to the data.

"Each day I've been going into work over the last month is worse, and what I mean by worse is ... just overwhelmed with COVID patients," said Dr. Frank LoVecchio, who works in several Arizona hospitals in emergency medicine and public health.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/coronavirus-hospitalizations-surge-arizona-texas-n1231945

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2 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

One last time before this thread gets locked.

Keep it to NFL talk. Full stop. There are a bunch of threads in other forums we host where they're talking about everything else related to this obviously very important topic. For here, keep it to NFL or it's going to get locked. 

Oops - sorry, you posted this at the same time I posted the AZ numbers. 

apologies. Had I seen this I wouldn’t have posted. 

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19 minutes ago, Mongidig said:

I wonder how late into the year NFL could delay the season opening? How far into 2021 could they continue to play?

That’s the question Baseball & basketball are struggling with now. When is it time to just throw in the towel & call it a lost season. 

Seems like most projects you have to look at the targeted end date and work backwards from there. So the question is probably “how far can they push back the Super Bowl and not interfere with the 2021 season” 

I don’t know the answer but that’s likely the approach. 

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