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***Official Protest-RIOT Thread*** Police Officers fleeing Seattle and urban areas. (1 Viewer)

A couple months ago I figured Trump had zero chance at re-election 

Today I’d put it at 50-50 thanks to these people
That's kind of my view.  I still think Biden is the favorite, but he went from a huge one to being at best somewhere around 3:2 as of now.  This can still swing obviously.  The evolution of the electoral map into a truly coastal split continues to evolve as well.  I could see Trump losing Arizona easily this cycle as the upper midwest and the old union type states shift more to the right over time.

 
There was always going to be something, manufactured or real, that was going to swing this election in some fashion. I find it hard to beliieve that people are going to go to the polls and decide that this violence in some city that they don't live in, is enough to make them change their mind from Biden to Trump
Those who were going to vote Biden largely will and those that were going to vote Trump largely will.  It's the middle that hadn't made up their mind that is in play.  To them the message could be seen as, "sure it may in another city now - but your's will be next."

 
There was always going to be something, manufactured or real, that was going to swing this election in some fashion. I find it hard to beliieve that people are going to go to the polls and decide that this violence in some city that they don't live in, is enough to make them change their mind from Biden to Trump
This assumes it only happens in a small amount of cities. 

That isnt true at this point. And there could still be more.

I agree that it isnt enough to sway the election, but it is obviously problematic if it continues and I think that is why the messaging is moving a bit now. 

 
Those who were going to vote Biden largely will and those that were going to vote Trump largely will.  It's the middle that hadn't made up their mind that is in play.  To them the message could be seen as, "sure it may in another city now - but your's will be next."
Could the message also be seen as...this is happening now...what makes anyone think re-electing Trump will help it?

 
Could the message also be seen as...this is happening now...what makes anyone think re-electing Trump will help it?
Perhaps.  It really depends on that undecided voter - how do they interpret a candidate's response. 

Some may believe that a Biden win means more effectively working with state/local government to help make changes that would stop/slow unrest.  Other undecided's may view that instead as simply giving in to a mob mentality that is out of control.  Effectively rewarding the uncivil unrest.

 
Jayrod said:
Wow.  That is some pretty cutting satire.
This is still the best mocking of current situation for police. 

ETA: i am aware the video is older, i believe they put it on YouTube in may though. 

 
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Stoneworker said:
Quote all the polls you want but it's pretty clear the recent escalation of violence is not good for the Democrats.
That would lead to the question: Who is escalating the violence? Be real. Surely several anecdotal videos with “the Libs!” will follow but people should be highly skeptical. If something clearly benefits one side, is it a coincidence that armed Trump flag flying vigilantes are now showing up to these handful of places? Of course not, they’ve figured out it benefits them and they are continuing it. 

 
That would lead to the question: Who is escalating the violence? Be real. Surely several anecdotal videos with “the Libs!” will follow but people should be highly skeptical. If something clearly benefits one side, is it a coincidence that armed Trump flag flying vigilantes are now showing up to these handful of places? Of course not, they’ve figured out it benefits them and they are continuing it. 
Make whatever arguments you want, but the facts suggest the violence has given Trump a lifeline issue to take attention away from pandemic/economy.

Why else would the left-biased Vox and several other media outlets claim this is hurting Biden/Democrats if it was actually helping? Be real.

Biden continues to lead polls. But some Democrats are nervous.

https://www.vox.com/2020/9/4/21404646/riots-looting-protests-help-trump-win

 
"The fact is that (insert something I disagree with) has given (insert those with whom I agree) a better chance at winning

No need to study this by using science, it is so because it fits my narrative." *

*not an actual quote

This seems to be a textbook example of confirmation bias

 
the moops said:
There was always going to be something, manufactured or real, that was going to swing this election in some fashion. I find it hard to beliieve that people are going to go to the polls and decide that this violence in some city that they don't live in, is enough to make them change their mind from Biden to Trump
We disagree. 

And that’s ok

 
noun: denial:  failure to acknowledge an unacceptable truth or emotion or to admit it into consciousness, used as a defense mechanism.

 
the moops said:
There was always going to be something, manufactured or real, that was going to swing this election in some fashion. I find it hard to beliieve that people are going to go to the polls and decide that this violence in some city that they don't live in, is enough to make them change their mind from Biden to Trump
I think there is focus on the undecideds, which is fine, but I think the bigger battle is getting decideds that would have voted to stay home or decideds that wouldnt have voted to voted.

40% of the voting eligible population don't vote, I'd venture its not because most of them don't have a preference.

 
Make whatever arguments you want, but the facts suggest the violence has given Trump a lifeline issue to take attention away from pandemic/economy.

Why else would the left-biased Vox and several other media outlets claim this is hurting Biden/Democrats if it was actually helping? Be real.

Biden continues to lead polls. But some Democrats are nervous.

https://www.vox.com/2020/9/4/21404646/riots-looting-protests-help-trump-win
Exactly. The pro Trump element is continuing the story in a roughly 3 square block area of the country and we’re all supposed to believe it’s the Antifa coming to your suburb nationwide. It’s the Trump supporters continuing this narrative hoping it will save him at the end.

 
Exactly. The pro Trump element is continuing the story in a roughly 3 square block area of the country and we’re all supposed to believe it’s the Antifa coming to your suburb nationwide. It’s the Trump supporters continuing this narrative hoping it will save him at the end.
Lol. This makes zero sense. Read the Vox article. Is David Wasserman of the Cook Political Report a Trump supporter**?

Images of burned-out buildings in Minneapolis and Kenosha have made some Democrats fear that Trump could have success with that crucial voter base again — and that it could win him the presidency. David Wasserman lays out the stakes pretty clearly at NBC News, arguing that if Trump does manage to recover his standing with working-class white voters, “Minnesota and Wisconsin could turn into the next Iowa and Ohio” (formerly swing states that moved strongly toward Trump).

**Hint: The New York Times has called the Cook Report "a newsletter both parties regard as authoritative."

 
That would lead to the question: Who is escalating the violence? Be real. Surely several anecdotal videos with “the Libs!” will follow but people should be highly skeptical. If something clearly benefits one side, is it a coincidence that armed Trump flag flying vigilantes are now showing up to these handful of places? Of course not, they’ve figured out it benefits them and they are continuing it. 
:confused: It is all over the news and Twitter every day.  No need to take sides just watch and decide.  Whatever is happening is being shown.  This is Merica now.

 
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Portland police might actually be enjoying the rioters and protesting when they see their paychecks.  Some police officers will more than double their salary this year. Plus many departments base retirement incomes on their best earnings year. This is only a 2 month period and there is no end in sight.   So this could be a huge windfall for PPD officers.

According to data obtained by KATU News through a records request, the Portland Police Bureau spent $6.9 million on overtime in June and July. That marks a 200% increase in overtime spending compared to that same time period last year when police spent $2.3 million.

Protests began at the end of May in Portland. Data for August has yet to be provided.

The sharp uptick in overtime spending during June and July account for more than half of what police had spent on overtime throughout all of 2020. From January through the end of July, PPB spent $11.4 million on OT. Last year, through mid-July, police had spent $7.7 million.

 
Summer Wheat said:
Portland police might actually be enjoying the rioters and protesting when they see their paychecks.  Some police officers will more than double their salary this year. Plus many departments base retirement incomes on their best earnings year. This is only a 2 month period and there is no end in sight.   So this could be a huge windfall for PPD officers.

According to data obtained by KATU News through a records request, the Portland Police Bureau spent $6.9 million on overtime in June and July. That marks a 200% increase in overtime spending compared to that same time period last year when police spent $2.3 million.

Protests began at the end of May in Portland. Data for August has yet to be provided.

The sharp uptick in overtime spending during June and July account for more than half of what police had spent on overtime throughout all of 2020. From January through the end of July, PPB spent $11.4 million on OT. Last year, through mid-July, police had spent $7.7 million.
Puts an interesting spin on defunding efforts.

 
Summer Wheat said:
Portland police might actually be enjoying the rioters and protesting when they see their paychecks.  Some police officers will more than double their salary this year. Plus many departments base retirement incomes on their best earnings year. This is only a 2 month period and there is no end in sight.   So this could be a huge windfall for PPD officers.

According to data obtained by KATU News through a records request, the Portland Police Bureau spent $6.9 million on overtime in June and July. That marks a 200% increase in overtime spending compared to that same time period last year when police spent $2.3 million.

Protests began at the end of May in Portland. Data for August has yet to be provided.

The sharp uptick in overtime spending during June and July account for more than half of what police had spent on overtime throughout all of 2020. From January through the end of July, PPB spent $11.4 million on OT. Last year, through mid-July, police had spent $7.7 million.
Any other profession and this much overtime is framed as overburdening the employees not as some amazing perk. 

 
Any other profession and this much overtime is framed as overburdening the employees not as some amazing perk. 
Any other profession does not get the overtime payment calculated into a pension, paid by taxpayers, that carries through for the rest of the employee's life.

Edit to add: it's been a long time, but back in the days when I was an hourly wage employee, I loved overtime.

 
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Summer Wheat said:
Portland police might actually be enjoying the rioters and protesting when they see their paychecks.  Some police officers will more than double their salary this year. Plus many departments base retirement incomes on their best earnings year. This is only a 2 month period and there is no end in sight.   So this could be a huge windfall for PPD officers.

According to data obtained by KATU News through a records request, the Portland Police Bureau spent $6.9 million on overtime in June and July. That marks a 200% increase in overtime spending compared to that same time period last year when police spent $2.3 million.

Protests began at the end of May in Portland. Data for August has yet to be provided.

The sharp uptick in overtime spending during June and July account for more than half of what police had spent on overtime throughout all of 2020. From January through the end of July, PPB spent $11.4 million on OT. Last year, through mid-July, police had spent $7.7 million.
The irony is people who want to defund the police  are giving them a raise...if they want to defund they should switch their tactic of rioting...doesn't seem to be working.

 
Any other profession does not get the overtime payment calculated into a pension, paid by taxpayers, that carries through for the rest of the employee's life.

Edit to add: it's been a long time, but back in the days when I was an hourly wage employee, I loved overtime.
There is a city in Metro-Detroit that has a few fireman retired after 25 years on the job.  2 of the men started when they were 19 the other 2 when they were 20.  These guys retired at 44-45 with full pension and bennies. Kicker was their pension was based on whatever year they made the most money.   These guys did not use hardly any sick days and had them all banked.  10 sick days a year was the norm. So when they retired they cashed out their sick days got a possible additional 225- 250 days of wages.  One of their pensions was over 80K a year for life,  and the day after he retired at 44 he took a job as a Captain with another FD for over 100K a year. It was all over the local news but it was in the city charter so nothing could be done. The other guys hooked up with different FDs as well.

Many PDs and FDs operate with the same type of pensions systems.   Some of the Portland cops who have enough time on the job might be getting out in a year of so with a hefty lifetime pension on the cities dime.

 
There is a city in Metro-Detroit that has a few fireman retired after 25 years on the job.  2 of the men started when they were 19 the other 2 when they were 20.  These guys retired at 44-45 with full pension and bennies. Kicker was their pension was based on whatever year they made the most money.   These guys did not use hardly any sick days and had them all banked.  10 sick days a year was the norm. So when they retired they cashed out their sick days got a possible additional 225- 250 days of wages.  One of their pensions was over 80K a year for life,  and the day after he retired at 44 he took a job as a Captain with another FD for over 100K a year. It was all over the local news but it was in the city charter so nothing could be done. The other guys hooked up with different FDs as well.

Many PDs and FDs operate with the same type of pensions systems.   Some of the Portland cops who have enough time on the job might be getting out in a year of so with a hefty lifetime pension on the cities dime.
This is a racket in Mass with the politicians...besides the ridiculous cash out on sick and vacation time their pension is based on their three highest earning years...therefore after they are done with their "public service" they all get overpaid patronage jobs as Assistant VP of Diversity/Inclusion/Intramural Games/listening to Yacht Rock Radio for one of the State Universities and pad their pension...complete scam...under no condition should anyone get a check for unused sick time...it is a benefit that if you don't use it you lose it.

 
There is a city in Metro-Detroit that has a few fireman retired after 25 years on the job.  2 of the men started when they were 19 the other 2 when they were 20.  These guys retired at 44-45 with full pension and bennies. Kicker was their pension was based on whatever year they made the most money.   These guys did not use hardly any sick days and had them all banked.  10 sick days a year was the norm. So when they retired they cashed out their sick days got a possible additional 225- 250 days of wages.  One of their pensions was over 80K a year for life,  and the day after he retired at 44 he took a job as a Captain with another FD for over 100K a year. It was all over the local news but it was in the city charter so nothing could be done. The other guys hooked up with different FDs as well.

Many PDs and FDs operate with the same type of pensions systems.   Some of the Portland cops who have enough time on the job might be getting out in a year of so with a hefty lifetime pension on the cities dime.
Local city near me used to have the officers able to pick their pension based on 30 days of their choosing.  Some officers about 15 years ago worked a few 80-100 hour weeks during summer festivals, retired with more than 100% of their salaries as a pension, took jobs in surrounding towns.  Absolutely ridiculous.  They have since changed the policy, but not before it crushed the city's finances.

 
Just read that Portland`s air quality right now is the worst of any major city in the world due to the fires. Has this impacted the protests and riots at all?  Can any homers chime in?  Anyone feeling it personally?   The smoke looks horrible on TV.

 
So much for the narrative that protest agitators are only white supremacists and out-of-state mercenaries. Candi Cdebaca is a member of the Denver city council and, according to coloradopolitics.com, a self-proclaimed Democratic Socialist. She also recently submitted a proposal to the Mayor that would abolish the Denver PD (which was rejected). 

A police officer with the Denver Police Department (DPD) has filed an ethics complaint against a Denver city councilwoman following an incident last month.

"CdeBaca approached Ofc. Wallace Sam and I," Lutkin wrote in the complaint. "CdeBaca pointed at Officer Sam (who is Black) and stated, ‘You should be ashamed.’ CdeBaca then pointed at me (I am white) and said ‘You, I would expect this from you.’ CdeBaca went on to tell us to look up the laws pertaining to slavery. When CdeBaca made these statements toward me, I felt she was bringing my race into the issue she had with officers being called to this area. The statement directed at me insinuated I am racist because I am white."

“The comments made by Councilwoman CdeBaca were meant to dehumanize and humiliate officers on scene in front of protestors,” the complaint alleges. “Her comments incited other protestors to demean officers and encourage them to continue to verbally abuse officers."

The ethics complaint also alleges a protester gave CdeBaca an officer’s body worn camera that was found at the scene, and that it took 51 hours for it to be returned to police.

“….by her holding this camera she was in effect making it impossible for this officer to do his job under the law," the complaint says. "Councilwoman CdeBaca made no effort to contact police and advise that she was in possession of the camera.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6XEQz-7ChA

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/officer-files-ethics-complaint-against-denver-city-councilwoman-cdebaca/ar-BB191UGW

https://www.coloradopolitics.com/denver/campaign-finance-complaint-filed-against-denver-councilwoman-candi-cdebaca/article_34dc2fa8-f215-11ea-a2bf-f7903b5f827e.html

 
Stoneworker said:
So much for the narrative that protest agitators are only white supremacists and out-of-state mercenaries.
This narrative didnt actually even make it out of Minnesota, at least not for anybody that pays any attention. 

 
The Kentucky AG will soon announce no charges in the Breonna Taylor murder. He will do this now, before the election, in hopes that “rioting and looting” will be met by vigilantes in the street. It’s been over 150 days, but waiting until after Election Day will deprive the administration its Law and Order opportunity. Don’t fall for it Louisville. Vote. 

 
Downtown Portland hotels in trouble.   National average of occupancy in major cities downtown hotels right now is right around 50-60%, down from 80-90% before the pandemic crisis. 

 Portland`s downtown hotels right now are in the 10-15% occupancy range since early summer.  Most of the staffing has been laid off due to empty rooms and nobody dining in the hotel.  The historic Benson hotel is struggling.  The GM said they can`t operate much longer without rooms being filled.

I stayed at the Benson once for a wedding and it would be a sad day for the city if this place does not make it.

 
Summer Wheat said:
Downtown Portland hotels in trouble.   National average of occupancy in major cities downtown hotels right now is right around 50-60%, down from 80-90% before the pandemic crisis. 

 Portland`s downtown hotels right now are in the 10-15% occupancy range since early summer.  Most of the staffing has been laid off due to empty rooms and nobody dining in the hotel.  The historic Benson hotel is struggling.  The GM said they can`t operate much longer without rooms being filled.

I stayed at the Benson once for a wedding and it would be a sad day for the city if this place does not make it.
And this is tied directly to the protests? 

 
another shooting.  protester vrs protester.    I was told in this forum that once the federal law enforcement was removed things would revert to normal.   normal must have a different meaning for some...........................

 
And this is tied directly to the protests? 
Really not sure.  Do tourists paying over 200 a night for a hotel usually like being in the middle of nightly riot/protest situations?  Do they like eating at an outdoor cafe and have their food and drinks knocked off tables while protesters are screaming at them?  Do tourists like being concerned about their safety?

If no it may have a little to do with it. 

 

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