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How to break out of your social media echo chamber (1 Viewer)

Joe Bryant said:
It's my understanding it's not up for discussion. He apparently already knows what people think. :shrug:  

But, you're right, the much more important discussion is how to get outside your bubble. 
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You asked that he put himself out there and produce the list.  He did.  I was under the impression that you asked for such a list because it challenged the perception that you have formed in your bubble whether it be the bubble of your real life friends telling you how there are no conservative voices here and/or pro Trump posters or the bubble of dealing with what goes on here day to day.  While the list can be nit picked it is certainly reasonably accurate enough at the very least to the tone of the posters in question.  I think it is pretty unfair to ask that the list be posted which opens the poster up to all kind ridicule only to respond with snark and condescension.  Maybe that isn't the intent, but it is certainly the look.  

 
Bottomfeeder Sports said:
You asked that he put himself out there and produce the list.  He did.  I was under the impression that you asked for such a list because it challenged the perception that you have formed in your bubble whether it be the bubble of your real life friends telling you how there are no conservative voices here and/or pro Trump posters or the bubble of dealing with what goes on here day to day.  While the list can be nit picked it is certainly reasonably accurate enough at the very least to the tone of the posters in question.  I think it is pretty unfair to ask that the list be posted which opens the poster up to all kind ridicule only to respond with snark and condescension.  Maybe that isn't the intent, but it is certainly the look.  
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I asked for the list as I was genuinely interested in the list he said he'd created. I was intrigued that he was interested enough to document and label all the posters he felt were Pro Trump.

I'm not sure how many posters we have here. I know it's a ton. Given a group this size, I would be shocked if we didn't have 30+ posters here who identified as Pro Trump. I would just have no idea how to make a list and was interested when he said he could. 

I don't agree with him that it's up to him to decide if a person is Pro Trump. But that's a tangent not really worth more time. 

Back to gianmarco's original question, I think this could be a much more productive discussion if we got back to the topic. 

 
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Joe Bryant said:
@gianmarco maybe you can get this back on track with your original, and very good question. How do you think we can break through our bubbles and echo chambers?
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Firstly, I didn't post any question. I posted the link to the article that attempts to answer the question of how to break out of one's bubble or echo chamber. I think it's a good read and has good points. 

Secondly, as anti-Trump as this place can be, there are a few posters that actually attempt to engage and offer viewpoints from the other side. So while you seem to continually argue that this place has no balance in that respect, I'm with many others that there is some balance here due to the fact that the quality a few of Pro-Trump posters offer is helpful to engage with here. 

I think a big reason why it may seem so unbalanced here is that I find most of the anti-Trump folks try to legitimately engage in discussions and many of the pro-Trump folks are here to rile up and "own the libs" or troll. So you see longer, more engaging posts from far more of those against him than those for him. But even with that in mind, there is still quality from those few that genuinely attempt to interact.  And what I, and I'm sure others get from that, provides a balance here that you can't get from most other places. I essentially never engage in politics anywhere else but here for that very reason. And I don't do that here to get confirmation from my "echo chamber" because I can get that from my FB feed if I that was all I was looking for.  I sometimes ask myself why I bother posting some of that stuff here but I when I can get a quality discussion with a different viewpoint, I feel that I can understand the other side better and try to see where they are coming from.

I think you are being too quick to dismiss that aspect of the community here due to your perception of a huge imbalance of for/against that isn't representative of the country at large. 

Finally, when someone genuinely tries to answer the question of who here is Pro-Trump to give an idea of the numbers, I don't understand the slights of accusing him of knowing how others think. He never claimed to do so and was simply posting a list based on the posting history of various members here.  Nothing more, nothing less. No one is "trying hard" to prove anything else. It may not be a perfect list, but it's certainly close and wouldn't be difficult to find posts or excerpts from those on the list that demonstrate how they feel about Trump. Unless that is nothing but multiple aliases or folks being completely disingenuous and trolling for fun, his point remains that there are a decent number of posters here that support Trump. 

Either way, as bad as the PSF can be at times, there is still some value and I do truly think it offers some opportunities to get out of one's echo chamber despite your repeated posts that we apparently can't recognize that's not possible.

 
Bottomfeeder Sports said:
You asked that he put himself out there and produce the list.  He did.  I was under the impression that you asked for such a list because it challenged the perception that you have formed in your bubble whether it be the bubble of your real life friends telling you how there are no conservative voices here and/or pro Trump posters or the bubble of dealing with what goes on here day to day.  While the list can be nit picked it is certainly reasonably accurate enough at the very least to the tone of the posters in question.  I think it is pretty unfair to ask that the list be posted which opens the poster up to all kind ridicule only to respond with snark and condescension.  Maybe that isn't the intent, but it is certainly the look.  
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Completely agree here.

 
gianmarco said:
Finally, when someone genuinely tries to answer the question of who here is Pro-Trump to give an idea of the numbers, I don't understand the slights of accusing him of knowing how others think. He never claimed to do so and was simply posting a list based on the posting history of various members here.  Nothing more, nothing less. 
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This didn't seem difficult.

Several of the names on this list will claim they aren't pro-Trump, but it's fairly obvious from the content of their posts that they are.
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:shrug:  

 
gianmarco said:
Firstly, I didn't post any question. I posted the link to the article that attempts to answer the question of how to break out of one's bubble or echo chamber. I think it's a good read and has good points. 

Secondly, as anti-Trump as this place can be, there are a few posters that actually attempt to engage and offer viewpoints from the other side. So while you seem to continually argue that this place has no balance in that respect, I'm with many others that there is some balance here due to the fact that the quality a few of Pro-Trump posters offer is helpful to engage with here. 

I think a big reason why it may seem so unbalanced here is that I find most of the anti-Trump folks try to legitimately engage in discussions and many of the pro-Trump folks are here to rile up and "own the libs" or troll. So you see longer, more engaging posts from far more of those against him than those for him. But even with that in mind, there is still quality from those few that genuinely attempt to interact.  And what I, and I'm sure others get from that, provides a balance here that you can't get from most other places. I essentially never engage in politics anywhere else but here for that very reason. And I don't do that here to get confirmation from my "echo chamber" because I can get that from my FB feed if I that was all I was looking for.  I sometimes ask myself why I bother posting some of that stuff here but I when I can get a quality discussion with a different viewpoint, I feel that I can understand the other side better and try to see where they are coming from.

I think you are being too quick to dismiss that aspect of the community here due to your perception of a huge imbalance of for/against that isn't representative of the country at large. 

Finally, when someone genuinely tries to answer the question of who here is Pro-Trump to give an idea of the numbers, I don't understand the slights of accusing him of knowing how others think. He never claimed to do so and was simply posting a list based on the posting history of various members here.  Nothing more, nothing less. No one is "trying hard" to prove anything else. It may not be a perfect list, but it's certainly close and wouldn't be difficult to find posts or excerpts from those on the list that demonstrate how they feel about Trump. Unless that is nothing but multiple aliases or folks being completely disingenuous and trolling for fun, his point remains that there are a decent number of posters here that support Trump. 

Either way, as bad as the PSF can be at times, there is still some value and I do truly think it offers some opportunities to get out of one's echo chamber despite your repeated posts that we apparently can't recognize that's not possible.
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This isn't about me. I'd like to get insights on how we all can break out of our social media echo chamber. Not just here but anywhere. 

Maybe @MAC_32 is right. 

 
Ilov80s said:
Interesting, I’ve generally found this place to be pretty well reasoned relative to the other internet places where politics are discussed. The quality of the discussions have fallen off and there’s way more trolling than ever but that’s just America in general now. It’s not anything wrong you did imo.
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This is where I am.   I think this is about as good as it gets as far as boards/social media that I have come across (admittedly a limited exposure on my part).  

I find it fascinating how little Joe seems to like these boards.

 
Joe Bryant said:
This isn't about me. I'd like to get insights on how we all can break out of our social media echo chamber. Not just here but anywhere. 

Maybe @MAC_32 is right. 
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Pretty sure a good bit of my lengthy post wasn't about you and tried to give insight how this place can help get out of our media echo chamber. :shrug:

 
gianmarco said:
I think you are being too quick to dismiss that aspect of the community here due to your perception of a huge imbalance of for/against that isn't representative of the country at large. 

...

Either way, as bad as the PSF can be at times, there is still some value and I do truly think it offers some opportunities to get out of one's echo chamber despite your repeated posts that we apparently can't recognize that's not possible.
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Maybe you don't realize it but we work really hard to make this forum as good as it can be. Yes, I wish it were more diverse. But I put probably way too much time into trying to shape this to be a decent place to discuss things. 

I'm critical of this place because I care about it and we work pretty hard at it. 

 
Joe Bryant said:
This isn't about me. I'd like to get insights on how we all can break out of our social media echo chamber. Not just here but anywhere. 

Maybe @MAC_32 is right. 
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Fwiw, I don't think I live in an echo chamber. Sure, I have some bias, we all do. I try to absorb information and opinions on all spectrums and apply critical thinking so any opinions I develop are as informed and balanced as I can.

I'm not the norm though. And I'm not easily influenced. Which is why most media is not geared towards people like me. Media is directed towards those who are easily influenced and who hear what they want to hear.

Mesmerize the simple minded, propoganda leaves us blinded...

 
Good article, but it's a bit sad that we have to go through all that trouble to weed through the b.s.  

It probably sucks for a lot of people, but about the only way to break away from the social media echo chamber is to stop engaging on social media as much.  Also, be very careful of the sites like YouTube where algorithms are set up to steer you towards exactly what you like, and to get more extreme so you stay on the site longer.  

 
Joe Bryant said:
Maybe you don't realize it but we work really hard to make this forum as good as it can be. Yes, I wish it were more diverse. But I put probably way too much time into trying to shape this to be a decent place to discuss things. 

I'm critical of this place because I care about it and we work pretty hard at it. 
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I am definitely aware of the work it takes. There's a reason this forum is the one I spend my time on instead of other places. 

It is a decent place to discuss things. If it wasn't, I, and I'm sure many others, wouldn't bother staying here. And I don't come here for the echo chamber. There is diversity here even if it's not as much as you'd like.

 
Joe Bryant said:
Several of the names on this list will claim they aren't pro-Trump, but it's fairly obvious from the content of their posts that they are.
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:shrug:  
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Would you it make you happier if I reworded that to "...but it's clear that the contents of their posts repeatedly express support for Trump."?

Seems like a distinction without a difference, but I'd be fine with that too.

 
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Joe Bryant said:
What do you think I'm not seeing? And why do you think that?
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As I wrote before, I think you aren't seeing that there are a lot of posters here who repeatedly express support for Trump.  There are certainly a lot of posters here who are "conservative".  You have the idea that this place is a liberal echo chamber, and I think that's your blind spot and, frankly, your own echo chamber.  You have so many people agreeing with you that you can't see the other side, even when presented with information that contradicts the "it's a liberal echo chamber" echo chamber.

Why?  I don't know why.  I'm trying to understand that.

 
Rich Conway said:
As I wrote before, I think you aren't seeing that there are a lot of posters here who repeatedly express support for Trump.  There are certainly a lot of posters here who are "conservative".  You have the idea that this place is a liberal echo chamber, and I think that's your blind spot and, frankly, your own echo chamber.  You have so many people agreeing with you that you can't see the other side, even when presented with information that contradicts the "it's a liberal echo chamber" echo chamber.

Why?  I don't know why.  I'm trying to understand that.
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Thanks. I derailed this enough yesterday and don't want to do that again.

I think the answer is simply, I don't think what you think I do if you believe the bolded above.

I don't think I've ever said the forum is a liberal echo chamber. If I have said that, I certainly don't believe that now. This is about Trump. 

I do wish the forum were more diverse and were not as heavily slanted towards Anti Trump posters.

As I said above, with a group this large, I'd be shocked if there weren't 30+ posters here who are pro Trump. That would fit with the percentages we've seen and what it feels like. I don't think that's a "a lot" with a group this size. You said you'd spent time to compile a list labeling posters as to what you believed they were and offered to share the list. Actual numbers are way better than vague "a lot" or "a little". I asked you to post what you said you had. 

To be totally clear:

I don't think the forum is a liberal echo chamber. 

I would be shocked if in a forum this large, we don't easily have 30+ folks who are Pro Trump.

I'm sorry to have derailed what I wished could have been a good discussion. I'll try to do better with this. 

 
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Joe Bryant said:
Do not question this. Apparently, it's obvious from the content of his posts that @jon_mx is in fact a Trump Supporter. ;)  
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An odd way to chatacterize someone who did not vote for him and routinely calls Trump a psycotic, a liar, corrupt, idiot, a disagrees with most of what he does.   But i guess in this forum that is a Trumo supporter.

 
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Rich Conway said:
@Joe Bryant (and @Da Guru, because he asked nicely) - This is a list I compiled of conservative posters.  Some are more active than others, obviously.  Some are certainly anti-Trump.  Some may claim they don't like Trump, but a pretty good chunk of this list are quite consistent about cheering Trump on and defending his every action.  I believe there are 59 names on this list.  It is not exhaustive, as I didn't go back months or anything.  I'm sure that some of these are aliases, but I have no way of ascertaining which.  Almost none of these names have voted in the new public poll posted today, although proving my earlier point, one did and voted "Radical left (anti-Trump)".

Andy Dufresne
BassNBrew
Bert
BladeRunner
Bogeys
Boston
Bronan
Cowboysfan8
cubd8
Da Guru
djmich
DocHolliday
Don't Noonan
DropKick
Football Jones
Ghost Rider
GoBirds
GROOT
HellToupee
I-ROK
IvanKaramazov
jerseydevil20
jm192
John Blutarsky
jon_mx
KChusker
KingPrawn
knowledge dropper
MAC_32
Manster
Megla
Mr. Anonymous
NightStalkers
nittanylion
Opie
parasaurolophus
Phil Elliott
pinkham13
Possum
quick-hands
Ramblin Wreck
rockaction
rwebb18
Sand
shader
shadrap
Shula-holic
Sneegor
spodog
Stealthycat
steeler6
Stoneworker
supermike80
T J
tjnc09
tonydead
top dog
TripItUp
Widbil83

EDIT to add: Commence arguing and adding names I forgot!
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interesting - I would categorize myself as a moderate liberal and have never thought of myself as a conservative. Its true that I've become more conservative on some things as I've gotten older, and I absolutely hate the woke authoritarianism that's infiltrated the Democratic party over the last ten years or so. But on the majority of issues like abortion, religion in school/politics, drug policy, etc I believe I'm still pretty solidly on the liberal side.

I respect that you've made an honest effort to answer Joe's question - and like rockaction (I think) said, I'm definitely a man without a party right now - but I think trying to label people like this based on your personal perceptions is going to be only as accurate as your own infallibility.

 
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Joe Bryant said:
Thanks. I derailed this enough yesterday and don't want to do that again.

I think the answer is simply, I don't think what you think I do if you believe the bolded above.

I don't think I've ever said the forum is a liberal echo chamber. If I have said that, I certainly don't believe that now. This is about Trump. 

I do wish the forum were more diverse and were not as heavily slanted towards Anti Trump posters.

As I said above, with a group this large, I'd be shocked if there weren't 30+ posters here who are pro Trump. That would fit with the percentages we've seen and what it feels like. I don't think that's a "a lot" with a group this size. You said you'd spent time to compile a list labeling posters as to what you believed they were and offered to share the list. Actual numbers are way better than vague "a lot" or "a little". I asked you to post what you said you had. 

To be totally clear:

I don't think the forum is a liberal echo chamber. 

I would be shocked if in a forum this large, we don't easily have 30+ folks who are Pro Trump.

I'm sorry to have derailed what I wished could have been a good discussion. I'll try to do better with this. 
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You have nothing to be sorry about.

 
gianmarco said:
Secondly, as anti-Trump as this place can be, there are a few posters that actually attempt to engage and offer viewpoints from the other side. So while you seem to continually argue that this place has no balance in that respect, I'm with many others that there is some balance here due to the fact that the quality a few of Pro-Trump posters offer is helpful to engage with here. 

I think a big reason why it may seem so unbalanced here is that I find most of the anti-Trump folks try to legitimately engage in discussions and many of the pro-Trump folks are here to rile up and "own the libs" or troll. So you see longer, more engaging posts from far more of those against him than those for him. But even with that in mind, there is still quality from those few that genuinely attempt to interact.  And what I, and I'm sure others get from that, provides a balance here that you can't get from most other places. I essentially never engage in politics anywhere else but here for that very reason. And I don't do that here to get confirmation from my "echo chamber" because I can get that from my FB feed if I that was all I was looking for.  I sometimes ask myself why I bother posting some of that stuff here but I when I can get a quality discussion with a different viewpoint, I feel that I can understand the other side better and try to see where they are coming from.
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I think your view of how engaging anti-trump posters are is grossly distorted.  Certainly there are pro-trumo trolls who come in and try to post stuff simply to spin people up.  But i try to post legitimate counterpoints and the vast majority of responses i see are anything but engaging.  They usually twist what i said or make some personal remark or pick out the most insignificant aspect of my post to avoid discussing the meat.  It is pretty rare to get an engaging response and when there is, it is buried in another six posters trying to snipe at me.  I would say way less than 5 percent of good points I make are acknowledged by anyone on the trump-hating crowd.   

 
gianmarco said:
Firstly, I didn't post any question. I posted the link to the article that attempts to answer the question of how to break out of one's bubble or echo chamber. I think it's a good read and has good points. 

Secondly, as anti-Trump as this place can be, there are a few posters that actually attempt to engage and offer viewpoints from the other side. So while you seem to continually argue that this place has no balance in that respect, I'm with many others that there is some balance here due to the fact that the quality a few of Pro-Trump posters offer is helpful to engage with here. 

I think a big reason why it may seem so unbalanced here is that I find most of the anti-Trump folks try to legitimately engage in discussions and many of the pro-Trump folks are here to rile up and "own the libs" or troll. So you see longer, more engaging posts from far more of those against him than those for him. But even with that in mind, there is still quality from those few that genuinely attempt to interact.  And what I, and I'm sure others get from that, provides a balance here that you can't get from most other places. I essentially never engage in politics anywhere else but here for that very reason. And I don't do that here to get confirmation from my "echo chamber" because I can get that from my FB feed if I that was all I was looking for.  I sometimes ask myself why I bother posting some of that stuff here but I when I can get a quality discussion with a different viewpoint, I feel that I can understand the other side better and try to see where they are coming from.

I think you are being too quick to dismiss that aspect of the community here due to your perception of a huge imbalance of for/against that isn't representative of the country at large. 

Finally, when someone genuinely tries to answer the question of who here is Pro-Trump to give an idea of the numbers, I don't understand the slights of accusing him of knowing how others think. He never claimed to do so and was simply posting a list based on the posting history of various members here.  Nothing more, nothing less. No one is "trying hard" to prove anything else. It may not be a perfect list, but it's certainly close and wouldn't be difficult to find posts or excerpts from those on the list that demonstrate how they feel about Trump. Unless that is nothing but multiple aliases or folks being completely disingenuous and trolling for fun, his point remains that there are a decent number of posters here that support Trump. 

Either way, as bad as the PSF can be at times, there is still some value and I do truly think it offers some opportunities to get out of one's echo chamber despite your repeated posts that we apparently can't recognize that's not possible.
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Disagree with the bolded.  There are plenty of anti-Trump trolls in this forum.  The percentage of trolls on each side is probably about the same but of course there will be more legit anti-Trump posters than pro-Trump posters because of the sheer number of each on both sides.  I also have seen many pro Trump posters who give up because there are 2-3 posters that follow them around for months with things like "Link?", "That's a falsehood", "LOL at using ____ source" and similar crap responses. What's the point of continuing to engage nonsense?  Also many of the good pro Trump posters got long timeouts or permabans from one of the mods where the anti-Trump trolls keep coming back for more and more.  Hell, one of them probably has 10-20 accounts here over the years.  My point is there are plenty of zinger posts at the Trump guys as there are "own the lib" posts but the own the lib posts seem to get posters in a lot more trouble around here.

 
Joe Bryant said:
Thanks. I derailed this enough yesterday and don't want to do that again.
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Except that for some of us this is the only social media platform we use. 

To answer the question of how to escape from the bubble of our own echo chambers I think.

  • We should engage in debates - I think you tend to see debate in the context of winning and losing and prefer the word discussion, I think of debates as throwing my thoughts out there with the expectation that knowledgeable, honest, respected posters are going to disagree.  Sometimes with hostility.   That is good, not bad as long as....
  • Expose our own beliefs to scrutiny with an open mind and see how they come out on the other side .  
  • The main goal is to shape my beliefs, changing yours or those of lurkers would be a bonus.   I do want to be always right, just need to fend of the belief that I am already there.  
  • Try to be able to understand the opposing views enough that if needed one could debate from that side.  
  • Follow the advice of Jim McCarthy and never throw the bozo bit.   Occasionally that  "bozo" which one wonders how the :censored:  they are even allowed to post around here 99.9% of the time will actually have something to offer.
  • Slow down in replying.  Share only what you don't see anyone else sharing.  (Granted in threads that grow by three pages for every one that you read this is tough.)   
  • Delete what you typed up at least as often as you hit submit. 
  • Yesterday I mention Bill James, today  I'll go with the favorite quote of John Wooden, Harry S. Truman, and Earl Weaver "It’s What You Learn After You Know It All That Counts".  Many times the best thing you can post in a thread to fully participate is nothing at all.
  • Listen when you are told that you are "nothing but a troll", "obnoxious", "always go for the jugular".  Or if we are not talking about me a "conservative" or "Trump supporter".  Even if not true in intent or even close to being real, perception is going to be the reality here. Stop :wall:  thinking you can ever say otherwise. 
All of those seem to apply to the discussion that happened yesterday.  Especially that last one.  So I don't think it really derailed anything but added some context.  And I don't think that anyone is going to embrace this list, though I hope I do more often than not.  As it is in my own selfish best interest!

 
Bottomfeeder Sports said:
  • We should engage in debates - I think you tend to see debate in the context of winning and losing and prefer the word discussion, I think of debates as throwing my thoughts out there with the expectation that knowledgeable, honest, respected posters are going to disagree.  Sometimes with hostility.  
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In a forum like this, debating is much more for the sideline readers than it is for the person you are directly debating against. When people care enough to debate on a message board, they're invested enough to not really be open to changing their opinion** -- were they on the fence or undecided, they wouldn't be debating the topic.


** At least not on the spot, in the immediate moment. Worldview change happens, but its a slow process.

 
Bottomfeeder Sports said:
Except that for some of us this is the only social media platform we use. 

To answer the question of how to escape from the bubble of our own echo chambers I think.

  • We should engage in debates - I think you tend to see debate in the context of winning and losing and prefer the word discussion, I think of debates as throwing my thoughts out there with the expectation that knowledgeable, honest, respected posters are going to disagree.  Sometimes with hostility.   That is good, not bad as long as....
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Wasn't sure if you meant me when you said "you". If you did mean me, I don't really care if the word is debate or discussion or whatever. I do strongly want to avoid any idea of "winning or losing" in what we do here.

Whether it's a logical chessmatch or just the "point scoring" zingers, that seems to most always end poorly. 

I don't think it's ever happened when the end result is, "You won, I lost. I now concede to your way of thinking". 

I would also say I never want hostility. Never. Not even with conditions. 

 
BobbyLayne said:
Anybody seen the Netflix doc-drama hybrid The Social Dilemma yet?
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Watched it last night after @Nugget mentioned it in the Stock thread.  Definitely gets you thinking and wanting to unplug more. 

Don't do FB.  I read twitter but no account.  FBG message boards is all I need.  

 
BobbyLayne said:
Anybody seen the Netflix doc-drama hybrid The Social Dilemma yet?
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Just watched it..YIKES!     

Anyone and everyone who uses any social media should watch it.  When I posted about the Russian KBG agent who talked about ideological subversion 30 years ago.  we are at that point right now..and when he said nobody will know and it is almost irreversable it is frightening the mind control  FB, Twitter and Instagram have on society.

 
I find it “easy” because I have no social media accounts and this is the only online place I visit and I think you all are a bunch of lunatics. ;)  

My observation of the PSF is folks are mostly anti-Trump, mostly socially liberal with a dash of libertarianism and maybe 50/50 fiscally conservative.  The real problem, as I see it, is way too many of us (and the real world) have allowed the two parties and the media to make us believe there’s only two sides and we all must pick a side and the “other side” is bad and maybe even evil.  

 
GoBirds said:
Yep, if Trump loses all the haters will get to take their victory laps.....otherwise it will get shutdown. That’s my prediction. 
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And whoever the GOP nominee is in 2024 will also be villified and labeled (pick one) a racist, misogynist, homophobe or some type of religious zealot ...the hate has been brewing since Reagan and it has hit the boiling point with Trump (because of his personality among other things) and it is not going away with Trump.

 
Boston said:
And whoever the GOP nominee is in 2024 will also be villified and labeled (pick one) a racist, misogynist, homophobe or some type of religious zealot ...the hate has been brewing since Reagan and it has hit the boiling point with Trump (because of his personality among other things) and it is not going away with Trump.
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I don't think McCain got labeled that way in 2008. I think some things came to light about Romney (binders full of women for example) that may have contributed to him receiving a few of those labels. I think if the GOP put up a person like Kasich you wouldn't see those labels much. Yes there are always a handful of zealots (every partisan stripe) that will try to cast any opposing candidate as the devil. It's always been that way.

Trump's earned most of his epithets though. It's really unfortunate, for all of us, that he's become the Republican standard bearer.

 
Gr00vus said:
I don't think McCain got labeled that way in 2008. I think some things came to light about Romney (binders full of women for example) that may have contributed to him receiving a few of those labels. I think if the GOP put up a person like Kasich you wouldn't see those labels much. Yes there are always a handful of zealots (every partisan stripe) that will try to cast any opposing candidate as the devil. It's always been that way.

Trump's earned most of his epithets though. It's really unfortunate, for all of us, that he's become the Republican standard bearer.
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McCain went from being the "maverick" to being Atilla The Hun once he became the nominee/a legit threat and then went back to being a "maverick" once he started dumping on Trump...his VP candidate was treated as badly as anyone not named Trump...as for Kasich he should just become a Democrat...the GOP wants no part of him and since the dems all love him and claim they would vote for him he would appear to be a better fit for that party.

 
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Boston said:
McCain went from being the "maverick" to being Atilla The Hun once he became the nominee/a legit threat and then went back to being a "maverick" once he started dumping on Trump...his VP candidate was treated as badly as anyone not named Trump...as for Kasich he should just become a Democrat...the GOP wants no part of him and since the dems all love him and claim they would vote for him he would appear to be a better fit for that party.
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The only people claiming McCain was a maverick were McCain and the Republicans (at the time). Palin richly deserved all the criticism she received. 

I don't know why you'd think Kasich is a Democrat? Because he doesn't support Trump? There are lots of people who don't support Trump that are clearly Republicans. Or is Republican now synonymous with Trump supporter? I don't think it is.

Regardless, that doesn't address your unsubstantiated claim that people would automatically attempt to brand any Republican nominee a racist, misogynist, homophobe, etc. I think that's false. Making such assumptions is how we get to a place where we can't have constructive disagreement anymore.

 
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Gr00vus said:
The only people claiming McCain was a maverick were McCain and the Republicans (at the time). Palin richly deserved all the criticism she received. 

I don't know why you'd think Kasich is a Democrat? Because he doesn't support Trump? There are lots of people who don't support Trump that are clearly Republicans. Or is Republican now synonymous with Trump supporter? I don't think it is.

Regardless, that doesn't address your unsubstantiated claim that people would automatically attempt to brand any Republican nominee a racist, misogynist, homophobe, etc. I think that's false. Making such assumptions is how we get to a place where we can't have constructive disagreement anymore.
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I believe those claims are part of what got us here...let's see how the SC nominee is treated and we can resume this conversation...that will be a nice test.

 
Boston said:
I believe those claims are part of what got us here...let's see how the SC nominee is treated and we can resume this conversation...that will be a nice test.
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If they're a decent person, based on their observable actions, I have hope that those labels won't be applied.

 
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