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✦✦✦ Official 2015 Pittsburgh Steelers Thread &#10 (1 Viewer)

If they do bring Harrison back it should be to mainly groom the younger players and lead by example. I wouldn't count on him making it through a whole season at his age. He would make a great leader for the defense assuming the other veterans will be retired. Cam Thomas needs to be sent packing.

 
Comment From Scott from Erie

Whats your gut feeling on Harrison returning next season? Certainly sounds like he wants to come back.

Gerry Dulac: As I've said before, it's not about what Harrison might want. The question is do the Steelers want him back. And the answer to that is no. It's meant as no disrespect to Harrison. But, he will be 37, and they didn't bring him back this season until there were injuries. Their plan is to move forward and it's not with James.

 
I'll probably get banned for asking this here, but.............who are y'all rooting for today in the NE/Balt game? A nuclear bomb at KO?

 
A tie.

Don't want the Pats to win but love seeing the Ravens lose. Conflicted. Whoever wins, hope they lose next week (big Colts fan for the next couple weeks). Since you're one of the good ones Uruk, go Ravens!

 
Uruk-Hai said:
I'll probably get banned for asking this here, but.............who are y'all rooting for today in the NE/Balt game? A nuclear bomb at KO?
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Immediately after last week's loss I was drunk and emotional and had much hate for the Ravens. Now that my sanity is back, I'm definitely rooting for the Ravens. It's hard not to respect them. I loathe Brady.

 
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As much as I hate the smugness of NE's fans I just can't bring myself to root for Baltimore. I dislike them more than Cleveland and find myself hoping they lose every game. I do have a lot of respect for Brady though and wouldn't mind seeing another great postseason from him before he is gone from the game.

 
The Hank said:
It was time - Lebeau had a great run with Steelers but it's time for a fresh look on things
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Fresh look? I don"t think scheme was the problem. Keeping guys way past their expiration date and not bringing in enough young talent was their problem.

 
As much as I do agree LeBeau's time was up, I don't know how "fresh" the look will be with the assumed new DC. Butler's a dyed-in-the-wool LeBeau disciple and is pretty much a mortal lock to get the nod for the position.

I am interested to see if he's more willing to throw some new wrinkles in there though. Have to believe he isn't going to be a complete robot and hasn't had his own ideas about dealing with some of the new rules, etc. I hope so, anyway.

 
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Not sure how I feel about this news. He is definitely a HOF assistant coach and you can't take that away from him. But the last 4 or 5 years the defense has really dropped. what is hard to figure out is whether it was because the talent was getting old really fast and they did a weak job of strengthening up with free agents and draft or it was his coaching. I have a feeling that this defense that we don't like with LeBeau isn't going to dramatically improve with a new coordinator. At least not for a couple years. Hopefully proven wrong

 
hammerva said:
Not sure how I feel about this news. He is definitely a HOF assistant coach and you can't take that away from him. But the last 4 or 5 years the defense has really dropped. what is hard to figure out is whether it was because the talent was getting old really fast and they did a weak job of strengthening up with free agents and draft or it was his coaching. I have a feeling that this defense that we don't like with LeBeau isn't going to dramatically improve with a new coordinator. At least not for a couple years. Hopefully proven wrong
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Maybe that's why they think its time. With Ike, Harrison, Polamalu and Kiesel all with at least one foot out the door the defense is in transition. Pretty good time for someone new to put their stamp on it but fresh talent through draft and FA is a must.
 
I'm not sure I like the LeBeau dismissal. I wonder if they move towards the 4-3 now. If so, there will be growing pains.

Players LOVED LeBeau. I hope they have the same affection for Butler if he's the guy.

 
Not fair to knock LeBeau for gradual downgrading of talent from the time the Steelers had the following players in their prime playing.

- DE Aaron Smith: the best 3-4 DE in NFL history until J.J. Watt came along

- NT Casey Hampton: even after he began to fade he was better than anything the Steelers have had at NT since he retired

- DE Brett Kiesel: in his prime he was great and he was a young up-and-comer when Hampton and Smith were in their prime giving the Steelers the best D-Line in the NFL at that time

- SS Troy Polamalu: when healthy and in his prime he was extra-special and a weapon that teams had to constantly try to keep track of

- OLB James Harrison: in his prime one of the best and most intimidating players in the league

- OLB Woodley: looked like he was going to special for a few years and he did have some good years when the above were still playing well

Who have the Steelers gotten to replace those guys? Ziggy Hood never matched up. Cameron Haywood is a solid replacement for Keisel but no one can or will replace the level of play of Aaron Smith. Polamalu is a shell and even though Harrison came in and played well he's done.

If you look at those guys the highest picks were Hampton and Polamalu both late first round picks but the jury is still out on your recent 1st round LBers and you still lack a stout NT and still need at least one other DE not to mention you'll never truly replace Polamalu. Pittsburgh cornered the market on mid-round tweener LBers who could rush the passer but now they have had to use first round picks but they aren't getting the bang for their buck that they used to get with those mid-round picks at LB.

The team is what it is, a good team right in the 7-9 to 10-6 range and will keep on that track so long as Big Ben is their but that defense probably won't get back to the level it was when all of those guys were in their prime, just too much to ask.

The gradual decline wasn't LeBeau in my opinion. It was a gradual chipping away of talent.

 
Bracie Smathers said:
Not fair to knock LeBeau for gradual downgrading of talent from the time the Steelers had the following players in their prime playing.

- DE Aaron Smith: the best 3-4 DE in NFL history until J.J. Watt came along

- NT Casey Hampton: even after he began to fade he was better than anything the Steelers have had at NT since he retired

- DE Brett Kiesel: in his prime he was great and he was a young up-and-comer when Hampton and Smith were in their prime giving the Steelers the best D-Line in the NFL at that time

- SS Troy Polamalu: when healthy and in his prime he was extra-special and a weapon that teams had to constantly try to keep track of

- OLB James Harrison: in his prime one of the best and most intimidating players in the league

- OLB Woodley: looked like he was going to special for a few years and he did have some good years when the above were still playing well

Who have the Steelers gotten to replace those guys? Ziggy Hood never matched up. Cameron Haywood is a solid replacement for Keisel but no one can or will replace the level of play of Aaron Smith. Polamalu is a shell and even though Harrison came in and played well he's done.

If you look at those guys the highest picks were Hampton and Polamalu both late first round picks but the jury is still out on your recent 1st round LBers and you still lack a stout NT and still need at least one other DE not to mention you'll never truly replace Polamalu. Pittsburgh cornered the market on mid-round tweener LBers who could rush the passer but now they have had to use first round picks but they aren't getting the bang for their buck that they used to get with those mid-round picks at LB.

The team is what it is, a good team right in the 7-9 to 10-6 range and will keep on that track so long as Big Ben is their but that defense probably won't get back to the level it was when all of those guys were in their prime, just too much to ask.

The gradual decline wasn't LeBeau in my opinion. It was a gradual chipping away of talent.
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Pretty much dead-on.

 
Bracie Smathers said:
Not fair to knock LeBeau for gradual downgrading of talent from the time the Steelers had the following players in their prime playing.

- DE Aaron Smith: the best 3-4 DE in NFL history until J.J. Watt came along

- NT Casey Hampton: even after he began to fade he was better than anything the Steelers have had at NT since he retired

- DE Brett Kiesel: in his prime he was great and he was a young up-and-comer when Hampton and Smith were in their prime giving the Steelers the best D-Line in the NFL at that time

- SS Troy Polamalu: when healthy and in his prime he was extra-special and a weapon that teams had to constantly try to keep track of

- OLB James Harrison: in his prime one of the best and most intimidating players in the league

- OLB Woodley: looked like he was going to special for a few years and he did have some good years when the above were still playing well

Who have the Steelers gotten to replace those guys? Ziggy Hood never matched up. Cameron Haywood is a solid replacement for Keisel but no one can or will replace the level of play of Aaron Smith. Polamalu is a shell and even though Harrison came in and played well he's done.

If you look at those guys the highest picks were Hampton and Polamalu both late first round picks but the jury is still out on your recent 1st round LBers and you still lack a stout NT and still need at least one other DE not to mention you'll never truly replace Polamalu. Pittsburgh cornered the market on mid-round tweener LBers who could rush the passer but now they have had to use first round picks but they aren't getting the bang for their buck that they used to get with those mid-round picks at LB.

The team is what it is, a good team right in the 7-9 to 10-6 range and will keep on that track so long as Big Ben is their but that defense probably won't get back to the level it was when all of those guys were in their prime, just too much to ask.

The gradual decline wasn't LeBeau in my opinion. It was a gradual chipping away of talent.
Click to expand...
Conversely, if all these players were as great as you say they were (I think they were) then any coach would have done well and the greatness of Lebeau has possibly been exaggerated.

 
3C said:
Bracie Smathers said:
Not fair to knock LeBeau for gradual downgrading of talent from the time the Steelers had the following players in their prime playing.

- DE Aaron Smith: the best 3-4 DE in NFL history until J.J. Watt came along

- NT Casey Hampton: even after he began to fade he was better than anything the Steelers have had at NT since he retired

- DE Brett Kiesel: in his prime he was great and he was a young up-and-comer when Hampton and Smith were in their prime giving the Steelers the best D-Line in the NFL at that time

- SS Troy Polamalu: when healthy and in his prime he was extra-special and a weapon that teams had to constantly try to keep track of

- OLB James Harrison: in his prime one of the best and most intimidating players in the league

- OLB Woodley: looked like he was going to special for a few years and he did have some good years when the above were still playing well

Who have the Steelers gotten to replace those guys? Ziggy Hood never matched up. Cameron Haywood is a solid replacement for Keisel but no one can or will replace the level of play of Aaron Smith. Polamalu is a shell and even though Harrison came in and played well he's done.

If you look at those guys the highest picks were Hampton and Polamalu both late first round picks but the jury is still out on your recent 1st round LBers and you still lack a stout NT and still need at least one other DE not to mention you'll never truly replace Polamalu. Pittsburgh cornered the market on mid-round tweener LBers who could rush the passer but now they have had to use first round picks but they aren't getting the bang for their buck that they used to get with those mid-round picks at LB.

The team is what it is, a good team right in the 7-9 to 10-6 range and will keep on that track so long as Big Ben is their but that defense probably won't get back to the level it was when all of those guys were in their prime, just too much to ask.

The gradual decline wasn't LeBeau in my opinion. It was a gradual chipping away of talent.
Click to expand...
Conversely, if all these players were as great as you say they were (I think they were) then any coach would have done well and the greatness of Lebeau has possibly been exaggerated.
Click to expand...
And I see great DC get stud performances out of backups and nobodies all the time. I don't think **** knows how to adjust his scheme towards strengths and weaknesses

 
i assumed years ago that Tomlin would install the 4-3 defense. Surprised it hasn't happened yet, but with this personnel, the time might be right for next year. Also, I'll go out on a limb and say that LeBeau will coach until he is 80 in sunny Arizona with Bruce Arians and the rest of Steelers' West.

 
3C said:
Bracie Smathers said:
Not fair to knock LeBeau for gradual downgrading of talent from the time the Steelers had the following players in their prime playing.

- DE Aaron Smith: the best 3-4 DE in NFL history until J.J. Watt came along

- NT Casey Hampton: even after he began to fade he was better than anything the Steelers have had at NT since he retired

- DE Brett Kiesel: in his prime he was great and he was a young up-and-comer when Hampton and Smith were in their prime giving the Steelers the best D-Line in the NFL at that time

- SS Troy Polamalu: when healthy and in his prime he was extra-special and a weapon that teams had to constantly try to keep track of

- OLB James Harrison: in his prime one of the best and most intimidating players in the league

- OLB Woodley: looked like he was going to special for a few years and he did have some good years when the above were still playing well

Who have the Steelers gotten to replace those guys? Ziggy Hood never matched up. Cameron Haywood is a solid replacement for Keisel but no one can or will replace the level of play of Aaron Smith. Polamalu is a shell and even though Harrison came in and played well he's done.

If you look at those guys the highest picks were Hampton and Polamalu both late first round picks but the jury is still out on your recent 1st round LBers and you still lack a stout NT and still need at least one other DE not to mention you'll never truly replace Polamalu. Pittsburgh cornered the market on mid-round tweener LBers who could rush the passer but now they have had to use first round picks but they aren't getting the bang for their buck that they used to get with those mid-round picks at LB.

The team is what it is, a good team right in the 7-9 to 10-6 range and will keep on that track so long as Big Ben is their but that defense probably won't get back to the level it was when all of those guys were in their prime, just too much to ask.

The gradual decline wasn't LeBeau in my opinion. It was a gradual chipping away of talent.
Click to expand...
Conversely, if all these players were as great as you say they were (I think they were) then any coach would have done well and the greatness of Lebeau has possibly been exaggerated.
Click to expand...
I don't agree that ANY COACH would have done as well and the thing people are missing is that if the Steelers hire ANY COACH right now the situation won't improve but could very-easily get worse because I don't think **** LeBeau was just ANY COACH.

 
Evilgrin 72 said:
Butler is obviously a disciple of LeBeau, so it will be interesting to see if they move to the Tampa 2 or not. What would our front 7 look like as a 4-3 with current personnel?

Tuitt-McClendon-Heyward-Jones

Spence-Timmons-Shazier

Something like that? Tuitt has some versatility and could rotate inside/out, but in any case, another pass rusher is a glaring need.
Click to expand...
Jones is not a DE

 
SteelerMurf said:
PhD said:
What about LeBeau's schemes has been so difficult for new players to learn?
Click to expand...
IDK but everyone including veterans acknowledge it
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The complexity and learning curve was fine when they had all those veterans and were a the top 5 defense in the NFL for a decade. They simply didn't need rookies to step in a play right away. But as those veterans ages and retired it seems the could have done more to alter their plans toward the strengths of the younger players in order to get them on the field. Another thing, why did they have Worlids in coverage so much last year? He should have been rushing on every obvious passing down IMO. I don't usually second guess the Steelers because they have forgotten more about football that I'll ever know... I'm just saying those kinds of things make we wonder if some new blood at the D-coordinator spot might be warranted.

 
SteelerMurf said:
Evilgrin 72 said:
Butler is obviously a disciple of LeBeau, so it will be interesting to see if they move to the Tampa 2 or not. What would our front 7 look like as a 4-3 with current personnel?

Tuitt-McClendon-Heyward-Jones

Spence-Timmons-Shazier

Something like that? Tuitt has some versatility and could rotate inside/out, but in any case, another pass rusher is a glaring need.
Click to expand...
Jones is not a DE
Click to expand...
I don't see him as a Sam in a 4-3 though, do you? He's a pass rusher, he'd kind of have to play end, no?

 
Ian Rappoport said this morning that LeBeau's resignation caught the team by surprise. It looks like he just decided it was time to move on.

**** LeBeau's resignation caught Steelers by surprise

By Marc Sessler
Around the NFL Writer
Published: Jan. 11, 2015 at 10:43 a.m. Updated: Jan. 11, 2015 at 10:54 a.m.

**** LeBeau has left the Steel City, but could the defensive wizard wind up coaching elsewhere next season?

NFL Media Insider Ian Rapoport reported on NFL GameDay Morning that LeBeau's resignation caught the Steelers by surprise, per sources involved in the situation.

While some in the organization were clear that LeBeau could stay as long as he wanted, the longtime coach thought it was time to go, Rapoport was told. It's believed that LeBeau, 77, wanted to depart alongside veterans such as cornerback Ike Taylor and safety Troy Polamalu, who are unlikely to be back with Pittsburgh in 2015.

The logical heir apparent for LeBeau is Keith Butler, who the Titans tried to hire away last offseason. The Steelers blocked the move, perhaps paving the way for Butler -- the team's long-tenured linebackers coach -- to take over Pittsburgh's coordinating duties.

As for LeBeau, his future remains in question. Rapoport noted that both the Titans and Cardinals have emerged as the most likely landing spots if the coach takes another job. With connections to Bruce Arians in Arizona and Ken Whisenhunt in Tennessee, a consulting gig -- if not a coaching role -- looms as the potential next step for the celebrated defensive play-caller.

Link: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000456557/article/****-lebeaus-resignation-caught-steelers-by-surprise
Click to expand...
 
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Memphis Foundry said:
Ian Rappoport said this morning that LeBeau's resignation caught the team by surprise. It looks like he just decided it was time to move on.

**** LeBeau's resignation caught Steelers by surprise

By Marc Sessler

Around the NFL Writer

Published: Jan. 11, 2015 at 10:43 a.m. Updated: Jan. 11, 2015 at 10:54 a.m.

**** LeBeau has left the Steel City, but could the defensive wizard wind up coaching elsewhere next season?

NFL Media Insider Ian Rapoport reported on NFL GameDay Morning that LeBeau's resignation caught the Steelers by surprise, per sources involved in the situation.

While some in the organization were clear that LeBeau could stay as long as he wanted, the longtime coach thought it was time to go, Rapoport was told. It's believed that LeBeau, 77, wanted to depart alongside veterans such as cornerback Ike Taylor and safety Troy Polamalu, who are unlikely to be back with Pittsburgh in 2015.

The logical heir apparent for LeBeau is Keith Butler, who the Titans tried to hire away last offseason. The Steelers blocked the move, perhaps paving the way for Butler -- the team's long-tenured linebackers coach -- to take over Pittsburgh's coordinating duties.

As for LeBeau, his future remains in question. Rapoport noted that both the Titans and Cardinals have emerged as the most likely landing spots if the coach takes another job. With connections to Bruce Arians in Arizona and Ken Whisenhunt in Tennessee, a consulting gig -- if not a coaching role -- looms as the potential next step for the celebrated defensive play-caller.

Link: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000456557/article/****-lebeaus-resignation-caught-steelers-by-surprise
Click to expand...
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Yeah, he said this, but ESPN reported that he wanted to come back. Not sure which is true, but the fact that he said he isn't retiring makes me think he says asked to resign.

 
Evilgrin 72 said:
Memphis Foundry said:
Ian Rappoport said this morning that LeBeau's resignation caught the team by surprise. It looks like he just decided it was time to move on.

**** LeBeau's resignation caught Steelers by surprise

By Marc Sessler

Around the NFL Writer

Published: Jan. 11, 2015 at 10:43 a.m. Updated: Jan. 11, 2015 at 10:54 a.m.

**** LeBeau has left the Steel City, but could the defensive wizard wind up coaching elsewhere next season?

NFL Media Insider Ian Rapoport reported on NFL GameDay Morning that LeBeau's resignation caught the Steelers by surprise, per sources involved in the situation.

While some in the organization were clear that LeBeau could stay as long as he wanted, the longtime coach thought it was time to go, Rapoport was told. It's believed that LeBeau, 77, wanted to depart alongside veterans such as cornerback Ike Taylor and safety Troy Polamalu, who are unlikely to be back with Pittsburgh in 2015.

The logical heir apparent for LeBeau is Keith Butler, who the Titans tried to hire away last offseason. The Steelers blocked the move, perhaps paving the way for Butler -- the team's long-tenured linebackers coach -- to take over Pittsburgh's coordinating duties.

As for LeBeau, his future remains in question. Rapoport noted that both the Titans and Cardinals have emerged as the most likely landing spots if the coach takes another job. With connections to Bruce Arians in Arizona and Ken Whisenhunt in Tennessee, a consulting gig -- if not a coaching role -- looms as the potential next step for the celebrated defensive play-caller.

Link: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000456557/article/****-lebeaus-resignation-caught-steelers-by-surprise
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Yeah, he said this, but ESPN reported that he wanted to come back. Not sure which is true, but the fact that he said he isn't retiring makes me think he says asked to resign.
Click to expand...
This is how Gerry Dulac wrote it so I'm doubting Rapoport.

Mr. LeBeau, one of the most revered defensive coordinators in the National Football League who is regarded as the architect of the zone blitz that is copied by many other teams, agreed to resign after meetings over several days with Coach Mike Tomlin.

 
It may be as simple as Butler was going to interview for DC jobs and not wait any longer and they're so sure that he's the guy they want long term that they basically had to tell LeBeau that it was time to hang 'em up.

 
Listen I love LeBeau but the man is going to be 78.

it's shocking and I don't blame him for anything but it makes sense

 
AhrnCityPahnder said:
Are we sure Butler is the guy? I know thats been the story all along...but someone else wouldn't surprise me.
Click to expand...
Never sure. I do know Tomlin is talking to him today and they haven't said they're talking to anyone else. Yet. We know Tomlin was a 4-3 guy and Butler is a long time 3-4 guy. Butler currently is not under contract.

 
3C said:
AhrnCityPahnder said:
Are we sure Butler is the guy? I know thats been the story all along...but someone else wouldn't surprise me.
Click to expand...
Never sure. I do know Tomlin is talking to him today and they haven't said they're talking to anyone else. Yet. We know Tomlin was a 4-3 guy and Butler is a long time 3-4 guy. Butler currently is not under contract.
Click to expand...
I think it's a near mortal lock Butler's who they'll tap, but of course nothing is guaranteed until a contract is signed.

If he is retained, I can't see him making a violent shift in philosophy. He's been a LeBeau disciple from forever ago. Hopefully he has his own idea about what it takes to combat modern offenses/how to generate more push against the QB, but I can't see him just scorching the earth and starting over from scratch.

If Tomlin does, indeed, want to go that direction then they'll probably hire somebody else.

If Butler IS the guy, whatever he does, I hope he rips the "Up 10 Points or Less? Time for the Prevent!!" page out of the playbook.

 
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Evilgrin 72 said:
It may be as simple as Butler was going to interview for DC jobs and not wait any longer and they're so sure that he's the guy they want long term that they basically had to tell LeBeau that it was time to hang 'em up.
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I think this is likely the case. LeBeau is 78 and they're concerned they'll lose Butler if they don't make a move now.

I love LeBeau but I also agree that the timing is right for his departure. I think Butler keeps the same defensive scheme but hopefully makes a few tweaks to suit his personnel and better compete in today's pass-happy NFL.

I assume if Butler gets the job that Porter gets promoted to line backer's coach...

 
5-ish Finkle said:
Not for nothing, but the "best 3-4 DE in NFL history before JJ Watt came along" was Bruce Smith. And it's not close.
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Duh! :doh: Ofcourse you are right.

Bruce Smith GOAT.

I had the ALL-DECADE team of the 2000s on my mind whenever I think of Aaron Smith as a 3-4 DE.

I think we can agree that Aaron Smith dominated his position during the era of the 2000s though.

 
5-ish Finkle said:
Not for nothing, but the "best 3-4 DE in NFL history before JJ Watt came along" was Bruce Smith. And it's not close.
Click to expand...
Hell, Aaron isn't even a top two Smith at 3-4 end. Justin was measurably better. Aaron goes high on the list of most underrated, though.

Polamalu's the only irreplaceable talent on thst list, but Big Snack's decline was the loose keystone that caused the arch to fall. Great LBs grow on trees, and when you draft them as aggressively as the Steelers, you'll always have a steady supply. But that matters a lot less if your guys have hats on them every play. Hampton was every PIT LB's best friend on that D for a decade.

Maybe McCullers turns into that spacehog bull a true 3-4 demands, but I'd be moving to address that role aggressively if the plan is to segue to the LeBeau disciple.

If they plan to shift to a 4-3, I hope they expand their search beyond Butler. You don't hand the keys to a master's disciple only to give him a vehicle he's never driven at this level. You find the best driver.

 
Unless Shaq Thompson falls to you guys through some miracle. He'd be a worthy successor to Lake and Polamalu. But I think he's gonna see an Urlacher type surge up the boards.

 
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Godsbrother said:
Evilgrin 72 said:
It may be as simple as Butler was going to interview for DC jobs and not wait any longer and they're so sure that he's the guy they want long term that they basically had to tell LeBeau that it was time to hang 'em up.
Click to expand...
I think this is likely the case. LeBeau is 78 and they're concerned they'll lose Butler if they don't make a move now.

I love LeBeau but I also agree that the timing is right for his departure. I think Butler keeps the same defensive scheme but hopefully makes a few tweaks to suit his personnel and better compete in today's pass-happy NFL.

I assume if Butler gets the job that Porter gets promoted to line backer's coach...
Click to expand...
Jerry Olsavsky.

 
I honestly could see LeBeau's next coaching gig be in the local HS football team in his hometown of OH

 
5-ish Finkle said:
I think it's a near mortal lock Butler's who they'll tap, but of course nothing is guaranteed until a contract is signed.

If he is retained, I can't see him making a violent shift in philosophy. He's been a LeBeau disciple from forever ago.
Click to expand...
this is kind of my concern. if we all agreed that it was time for DL to go, are we gung ho on replacing him with someone who won't change much of the system, but doesn't have as much experience or knowledge that DL does?

I get that the hope his Butler will add his own wrinkles and looks to provide enogh change to be effective.

 
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