✦✦✦ Official 2015 Pittsburgh Steelers Thread &#10 (2 Viewers)

[Evilgrin 72]

Byron Jones

NFL.com pre-combine : ranked 25th among CBs. Sentiment was that he's not fast or quick enough to play CB in the NFL and needed to move to S. Day 3 pick.

NFL.com post-combine : ranked 11th among CBs. Sentiment is that he has aedequate speed to play NFL CB. 1st or 2nd round pick.

NFLDraftScout/CBS pre-combine : ranked 31st among CBs. 7th round grade.

NFLDraftScout/CBS post-combine : ranked 3rd among CBs. 1st round grade.

So CBS MIGHT just be overreacting to a huge broad jump. I wouldn't touch Jones in round 1.

Mayock has him as the 5th best CB. I'd trust these guys who do it for a living know not to overreact to combine numbers and instead did a Mayock and "went back to study more tape" after a great combine performance. Just watched Path to the Draft and Daniel Jeremiah and Charles Davis were discussing possibilities for the Lions (23) and they threw Jones into the mix. I'd call it a reach there but he's certainly in the discussion for a late first/early second round pick.

I notice that Mayock's first set of rankings had Jones nowhere to be found, though. What did he base those rankings on if not the tape?

I think what happens with some of these workout warriors is that they put up these monster numbers, then all the analysts "go back to the tape" because they don't want to have missed the boat on someone. They then watch the same tape with their opinions biased by the combine numbers and suddenly, they see things they didn't see before.

Not to say that Jones won't be a fine player, but I'd be willing to wager that if he'd had pedestrian broad jump/long jump #s, he'd still be considered a day 2 or day 3 pick right now. Now, if some team wants to spend a 1st round selection on guy who was pretty much unanimously considered a late round prospect based on long jump ability, that's their prerogative, but personally, I wouldn't do it. Jones is not very fast and he looks awkward backpedaling and getting out of breaks. IMO, he's not going to be a good corner. I could see him potentially being a pretty good FS, and the Steelers could use a prospect at that position, I just wouldn't spend a pick on a speculative FS prospect before maybe round 3, and this cat will obviously be long gone by then.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I don't know why players even sign contracts anymore. They never play them out it seems.

You can't blame them that much. The teams have all the leverage. You sign a deal and underperform, they cut you and you don't make most of the money you signed for. You sign a deal and overperform, sorry - that's how the cookie crumbles. If the contracts were fully guaranteed like they are in MLB, I'd be much harder on guys holding out.

That said, the Steelers gave Brown this money before he was a superstar. They bet on him. Brown could have declined to sign the deal and become a free agent eventually like Wallace did. He chose to take the cash. A big part of me wants to see him say : "I'll play out the deal I signed and then look for the megabucks contract," but I guess in today's NFL, that's just not realistic. And it's too bad.

 

[3C's]

I don't know why players even sign contracts anymore. They never play them out it seems.

You can't blame them that much. The teams have all the leverage. You sign a deal and underperform, they cut you and you don't make most of the money you signed for. You sign a deal and overperform, sorry - that's how the cookie crumbles. If the contracts were fully guaranteed like they are in MLB, I'd be much harder on guys holding out.

That said, the Steelers gave Brown this money before he was a superstar. They bet on him. Brown could have declined to sign the deal and become a free agent eventually like Wallace did. He chose to take the cash. A big part of me wants to see him say : "I'll play out the deal I signed and then look for the megabucks contract," but I guess in today's NFL, that's just not realistic. And it's too bad.

the thing that bothers me is that it was a great contract until some others got more so now he wants more. then others will get more and he will want more....

 

[Godsbrother]

Antonio possibly holding out is no big deal. As EG pointed out, Brown has no choice but to report eventually especially considering he has three years left. I can understand that he feels he should be paid more, I actually agree with him, but what incentive do the Steelers have to rip up his contract?

His only chance to get more is through an extension and threatening a hold out is probably not the best way to negotiate with the Steelers. I don't hold anything against him for trying to get more $$$ but I think his chances aren't very good.

 

[belljr]

I blame Rosendevil

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I don't know why players even sign contracts anymore. They never play them out it seems.

You can't blame them that much. The teams have all the leverage. You sign a deal and underperform, they cut you and you don't make most of the money you signed for. You sign a deal and overperform, sorry - that's how the cookie crumbles. If the contracts were fully guaranteed like they are in MLB, I'd be much harder on guys holding out.

That said, the Steelers gave Brown this money before he was a superstar. They bet on him. Brown could have declined to sign the deal and become a free agent eventually like Wallace did. He chose to take the cash. A big part of me wants to see him say : "I'll play out the deal I signed and then look for the megabucks contract," but I guess in today's NFL, that's just not realistic. And it's too bad.

the thing that bothers me is that it was a great contract until some others got more so now he wants more. then others will get more and he will want more....

Yeah, that's true. On the other hand, he is probably the best wideout in football and he's not even among the 10 highest-paid. On the other, it's annoying that the Steelers made a good deal for both sides but then the fiscal imprudence of other franchises comes back to bite them.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Antonio possibly holding out is no big deal. As EG pointed out, Brown has no choice but to report eventually especially considering he has three years left. I can understand that he feels he should be paid more, I actually agree with him, but what incentive do the Steelers have to rip up his contract?

His only chance to get more is through an extension and threatening a hold out is probably not the best way to negotiate with the Steelers. I don't hold anything against him for trying to get more $$$ but I think his chances aren't very good.

And Rosenhaus should know this. Didn't work out for Hines Ward, it's not going to work out for Antonio Brown either.

 

[3C's]

I don't know why players even sign contracts anymore. They never play them out it seems.

You can't blame them that much. The teams have all the leverage. You sign a deal and underperform, they cut you and you don't make most of the money you signed for. You sign a deal and overperform, sorry - that's how the cookie crumbles. If the contracts were fully guaranteed like they are in MLB, I'd be much harder on guys holding out.

That said, the Steelers gave Brown this money before he was a superstar. They bet on him. Brown could have declined to sign the deal and become a free agent eventually like Wallace did. He chose to take the cash. A big part of me wants to see him say : "I'll play out the deal I signed and then look for the megabucks contract," but I guess in today's NFL, that's just not realistic. And it's too bad.

the thing that bothers me is that it was a great contract until some others got more so now he wants more. then others will get more and he will want more....

Yeah, that's true. On the other hand, he is probably the best wideout in football and he's not even among the 10 highest-paid. On the other, it's annoying that the Steelers made a good deal for both sides but then the fiscal imprudence of other franchises comes back to bite them.

Is he really the best WR in football? Or is it the qb/offense? If he and AJ Green switch teams who would have the better season? He's certainly one of the best but my feeling is a number of players could come in and put up similar numbers in that offense.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I don't know why players even sign contracts anymore. They never play them out it seems.

You can't blame them that much. The teams have all the leverage. You sign a deal and underperform, they cut you and you don't make most of the money you signed for. You sign a deal and overperform, sorry - that's how the cookie crumbles. If the contracts were fully guaranteed like they are in MLB, I'd be much harder on guys holding out.

That said, the Steelers gave Brown this money before he was a superstar. They bet on him. Brown could have declined to sign the deal and become a free agent eventually like Wallace did. He chose to take the cash. A big part of me wants to see him say : "I'll play out the deal I signed and then look for the megabucks contract," but I guess in today's NFL, that's just not realistic. And it's too bad.

the thing that bothers me is that it was a great contract until some others got more so now he wants more. then others will get more and he will want more....

Yeah, that's true. On the other hand, he is probably the best wideout in football and he's not even among the 10 highest-paid. On the other, it's annoying that the Steelers made a good deal for both sides but then the fiscal imprudence of other franchises comes back to bite them.

Is he really the best WR in football? Or is it the qb/offense? If he and AJ Green switch teams who would have the better season? He's certainly one of the best but my feeling is a number of players could come in and put up similar numbers in that offense.

I think it's both. Ben is great, the offense is clicking, but Brown is uncoverable.

 

[3C's]

I don't know why players even sign contracts anymore. They never play them out it seems.

You can't blame them that much. The teams have all the leverage. You sign a deal and underperform, they cut you and you don't make most of the money you signed for. You sign a deal and overperform, sorry - that's how the cookie crumbles. If the contracts were fully guaranteed like they are in MLB, I'd be much harder on guys holding out.

That said, the Steelers gave Brown this money before he was a superstar. They bet on him. Brown could have declined to sign the deal and become a free agent eventually like Wallace did. He chose to take the cash. A big part of me wants to see him say : "I'll play out the deal I signed and then look for the megabucks contract," but I guess in today's NFL, that's just not realistic. And it's too bad.

the thing that bothers me is that it was a great contract until some others got more so now he wants more. then others will get more and he will want more....

Yeah, that's true. On the other hand, he is probably the best wideout in football and he's not even among the 10 highest-paid. On the other, it's annoying that the Steelers made a good deal for both sides but then the fiscal imprudence of other franchises comes back to bite them.

Is he really the best WR in football? Or is it the qb/offense? If he and AJ Green switch teams who would have the better season? He's certainly one of the best but my feeling is a number of players could come in and put up similar numbers in that offense.

I think it's both. Ben is great, the offense is clicking, but Brown is uncoverable.

I left off "both" on purpose. Yeah it's both and he's in the upper elite tier of WR's. He's really not far off salary wise from being paid like it though. Looking at this list the most glaring issue is how small his guaranteed amount is is comparison to some. Rework the contract a little, increase his guaranteed amount, throw a signing bonus or some performance escalators in. Maybe that would do it.

http://overthecap.com/position/wide-receiver/

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Is he really the best WR in football?

At this point in time he really is.

But the offense and quarterback always have a part in that.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Week 1 - Thursday Night season opener at New England with no LeVeon. Wonderful. At least he isn't missing important games so far in his career.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Week 1 - Thursday Night season opener at New England with no LeVeon. Wonderful. At least he isn't missing important games so far in his career.

And you can bet that the announcers will be quick to point out that Blount was a Steeler when he got busted. So the Steelers will have two black eyes to along with missing their key offensive player against the Super Bowl champs. Not sure that being given that game was good for them in any way.

 

[3C's]

Week 1 - Thursday Night season opener at New England with no LeVeon. Wonderful. At least he isn't missing important games so far in his career.

And you can bet that the announcers will be quick to point out that Blount was a Steeler when he got busted. So the Steelers will have two black eyes to along with missing their key offensive player against the Super Bowl champs. Not sure that being given that game was good for them in any way.

Blount will be out too. And the Pats tend to start a little slow. And there will be no snow to contend with.

Just looking at the glass half full. They'd have to play the Pats in NE anyway so maybe it's better to do it in Sept than in Dec.

 

[Godsbrother]

Week 1 - Thursday Night season opener at New England with no LeVeon. Wonderful. At least he isn't missing important games so far in his career.

And you can bet that the announcers will be quick to point out that Blount was a Steeler when he got busted. So the Steelers will have two black eyes to along with missing their key offensive player against the Super Bowl champs. Not sure that being given that game was good for them in any way.

Blount will be out too. And the Pats tend to start a little slow. And there will be no snow to contend with.

Just looking at the glass half full. They'd have to play the Pats in NE anyway so maybe it's better to do it in Sept than in Dec.

The bright side of the schedule that I can see is that 2 of the 3 games that Bell is set to miss are against NFC opponents and he should be back for the Week 4 Thursday night home matchup with the Ravens.

On paper it is a brutal schedule though.

 

[3C's]

Week 1 - Thursday Night season opener at New England with no LeVeon. Wonderful. At least he isn't missing important games so far in his career.

And you can bet that the announcers will be quick to point out that Blount was a Steeler when he got busted. So the Steelers will have two black eyes to along with missing their key offensive player against the Super Bowl champs. Not sure that being given that game was good for them in any way.

Blount will be out too. And the Pats tend to start a little slow. And there will be no snow to contend with.

Just looking at the glass half full. They'd have to play the Pats in NE anyway so maybe it's better to do it in Sept than in Dec.

The bright side of the schedule that I can see is that 2 of the 3 games that Bell is set to miss are against NFC opponents and he should be back for the Week 4 Thursday night home matchup with the Ravens.

On paper it is a brutal schedule though.

True that. The first 8 games is a gauntlet, followed by a gauntlet in the final 8 games. Gonna be a tough season.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

The toughest schedule in history was Pittsburgh 2008 at .598 combined winning percentage.

They went 10-6 and won the Superbowl. Its .578 this year.

Following the 2008 season no team since 1997 ever played against a .530 combined winning percentage and won more then 10 games. (not sure of recent years)

After the season.... the 2008 Steelers schedule was 2nd toughest of all-time. Behind the 1979 Steelers.

 

[3C's]

12-4 realistic? http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/nfl-pittsburgh-steelers-news/2015/4/22/8467561/2015-nfl-schedule-pittsburgh-steelers-game-by-game-predictions

 

[Lutherman2112]

Check out who attended offseason workouts today.

 

[Freelove]

Check out who attended offseason workouts today.

Kudos to Silverback on finding the one outfit in the universe that makes him look frumpy.

 

[Freelove]

12-4 realistic? http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/nfl-pittsburgh-steelers-news/2015/4/22/8467561/2015-nfl-schedule-pittsburgh-steelers-game-by-game-predictions

Awfully difficult, give the schedule in front of them, but I wouldn't call any prediction south of 14-2, or north of 4-12, "unrealistic."

Steelers have a lot of talent, and plenty of chances yet to fill the holes that desperately need filling.

 

[The Hank]

Based on Colbert and Tomlin's comments on position strength of draft, I'd be shocked if first pick is not an OLB.

 

[Godsbrother]

Based on Colbert and Tomlin's comments on position strength of draft, I'd be shocked if first pick is not an OLB.

I'll be shocked if it is not OLB or CB. I don't know if Shane Ray's bust makes him more or less likely pick for the Steelers.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Based on Colbert and Tomlin's comments on position strength of draft, I'd be shocked if first pick is not an OLB.

It'll depend largely on who's there. If Gregory and/or Ray drop to #22, it will make for some interesting discussions. If the Steelers don't want either, those two experiencing a precipitous drop may render a situation where there's simply no value at #22 - Fowler, Beasley, Dupree, and possibly even Harold and the kid from UCLA whose name I don't want to attempt to spell could all be gone at 22 if Ray and Gregory are taken off some teams boards or out of 1st round consideration.

 

[moondog]

I think there is a good chance both Gregory and Ray drop to the Steelers pick. It would not surprise me if Gregory goes to Pittsburgh and Ray ends up at Baltimore.

Ray's arrest puts him in the NFL's susbstance abuse program - no idea if Gregory will be subject to the program also.

 

[3C's]

I think there is a good chance both Gregory and Ray drop to the Steelers pick. It would not surprise me if Gregory goes to Pittsburgh and Ray ends up at Baltimore.

Ray's arrest puts him in the NFL's susbstance abuse program - no idea if Gregory will be subject to the program also.

Gregory may actually be worse. Ray is subject to the "behavioral" portion of Stage 1. No punishment and if he keeps clean for 90 days (or so) it would be like he never was in stage 1. Gregory failed a drug test so stage 1 is on his "permanent record" so to say. Some light reading. https://nflpaweb.blob.core.windows.net/media/Default/PDFs/Active%20Players/Drug_SOA_Policy_9-29-14.pdf

 

[Franknbeans]

lookee here

 

[Godsbrother]

I did a 7 round mock and this is how it came down for the Steelers. The obvious thing out of whack here is not taking a WR until the last pick so right off the bat it is flawed but here it is nonetheless:

(1) - Byron Jones, CB, Connecticut

(2) - Nate Orchard, DE/OLB, Utah
(3) - Stephen Nelson, CB, Oregon State
(4) - Wes Saxton, TE, South Alabama (probably should have went with WR Tyler Lockett here and a TE in the 6th)
(5) - Adrian Amos, S, Penn State
(6) - Kyle Emanuel, OLB, North Dakota State
(6) - Josh Robinson, RB, Mississippi State
(7) - Devin Gardner, WR/QB, Michigan

 

[C & C]

I can't seem to find a guy I'm going to be excited about and hoping he's there when they are on the clock. Most years the guy I'm hoping for doesn't make it to them. Don't think it's realistic to think one of the top pass rushers are going to be there. I'm not excited about most of the corners or safeties. I guess Marcus Peters is one I like, but it would be so out of character to draft him (or Gregory or Ray) that I can't see it.

So tell me who you all are hoping for? And who you expect it to be?

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I'm seeing Byron Jones over and over. I hope I'm wrong on this guy, but I fear that his measurables at the combine have him overhyped. I know he's experienced and a high character guy too, which makes it only more likely that the Steelers will give him a long look at 22. I just don't see the things on film that I've watched that would make me say : "This guy's a cinch 1st rounder."

Now, if they draft him looking to make him a FS, that's a whole different story. I think he could potentially be a very good safety. I just don't see him being able to stick in NFL receivers' underwear down the field and if you're drafting a CB in the first round, you're looking for a starting outside corner. I'm not convinced he can be that - I don't see the mirroring skills and fluidity back there that I see in a guy like Marcus Peters, no matter what the stopwatches say.

 

[5-ish Finkle]

I'm seeing Byron Jones over and over. I hope I'm wrong on this guy, but I fear that his measurables at the combine have him overhyped.

Totally agree with you.

Now, if they draft him looking to make him a FS, that's a whole different story.

It is, but the ending isn't any better to me. You don't draft FS in the first round unless they're flat out difference makers. I don't get that vibe with Jones.

If they're taking a CB in round one I really hope it's Peters, but fear it won't be given the 'tude. The DID meet with him multiple times. Think Tomlin had dinner with him, etc.

 

[C & C]

I guess I'm hoping for Kevin Johnson to be there, so they don't pick Byron Jones. I have no confidence in Jones, which seems like the consensus here.

 

[Idiot Boxer]

I did a 7 round mock and this is how it came down for the Steelers. The obvious thing out of whack here is not taking a WR until the last pick so right off the bat it is flawed but here it is nonetheless:

(1) - Byron Jones, CB, Connecticut

(2) - Nate Orchard, DE/OLB, Utah
(3) - Stephen Nelson, CB, Oregon State
(4) - Wes Saxton, TE, South Alabama (probably should have went with WR Tyler Lockett here and a TE in the 6th)
(5) - Adrian Amos, S, Penn State
(6) - Kyle Emanuel, OLB, North Dakota State
(6) - Josh Robinson, RB, Mississippi State
(7) - Devin Gardner, WR/QB, Michigan

I don't see WR being anywhere near the top of their needs. Brown, Bryant and Wheaton are a fine core to build around.

 

[Godsbrother]

I don't see the knock against Jones aside that he only played one season at corner. He's got the size, speed and leaping ability to play the position. I don't see where he doesn't have the same potential as Johnson.

 

[Godsbrother]

I did a 7 round mock and this is how it came down for the Steelers. The obvious thing out of whack here is not taking a WR until the last pick so right off the bat it is flawed but here it is nonetheless:

(1) - Byron Jones, CB, Connecticut

(2) - Nate Orchard, DE/OLB, Utah
(3) - Stephen Nelson, CB, Oregon State
(4) - Wes Saxton, TE, South Alabama (probably should have went with WR Tyler Lockett here and a TE in the 6th)
(5) - Adrian Amos, S, Penn State
(6) - Kyle Emanuel, OLB, North Dakota State
(6) - Josh Robinson, RB, Mississippi State
(7) - Devin Gardner, WR/QB, Michigan

I don't see WR being anywhere near the top of their needs. Brown, Bryant and Wheaton are a fine core to build around.

Neither do I though I keep hearing they are looking for a slot WR.

 

[5-ish Finkle]

They only have 4 wideouts(not counting Archer. Guy's a got bust stank on him) currently who've ever seen time on an active roster, and one of them is pretty much just a gunner on teams at this point.

WR depth is needed. Maybe not with a premium pick, but I'm willing to wager they're going to draft one before round 7.

I don't see the knock against Jones aside that he only played one season at corner. He's got the size, speed and leaping ability to play the position. I don't see where he doesn't have the same potential as Johnson.

I'm not enamored with Johnson either.

Gimme the pass rusher in round one. Go after the DBs after that. I like Golson as much, or more, than a bunch of guys who're being rated as late 1s/early 2s. Guy's a baller, he's just short. Hope he winds up in Pittsburgh somehow.

 

[Godsbrother]

They only have 4 wideouts(not counting Archer. Guy's a got bust stank on him) currently who've ever seen time on an active roster, and one of them is pretty much just a gunner on teams at this point.

WR depth is needed. Maybe not with a premium pick, but I'm willing to wager they're going to draft one before round 7.

I agree. That just didn't happen when I was putting together my mock. I could see Sammie Coates in the 3rd, Tyler Lockett in the 4th or maybe Ty Montgomery in the 5th.

 

[C & C]

Some info on these guys...

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/rating-the-nfl-draft-prospects-defensive-backs-b99487251z1-301633761.html

2. KEVIN JOHNSON, Wake Forest (6-0 ½, 184, 4.48, 1): Played 46 games in four seasons, sitting out 2011 for academic reasons. "He has the best feet of anybody," one scout said. "Great footwork. Can play press and off. Extremely quick. Good ball skills. He has good length but he lacks bulk. But he's tough and tries to knock people out in the run game. It scares you because of how he's built." Has 161 pounds of muscle mass; average for an NFL CB is 178. Weighed 145 upon enrollment in 2010. "You could see thin on tape," another scout said. "However, people didn't beat him up. Some guys get bumped around. He's a smart (Wonderlic of 17), tough, good player." Finished with 189 tackles (eight for loss), seven picks and 38 PBUs. Was recruited by Wisconsin. "He played in the 170s," said a third scout. "He worked on putting on weight. He's got cover skills and corner swagger. The majority of his career he's been hands-down the best player at Wake Forest. Kind of been an immature, 'I'm going to do it my way' guy. Late in the year, despite having a terrible season, guys there were speaking very positively about how he matured and progressed. That was very telling." Vertical jump of 41 ½ inches. From Clarksville, Md.

3. MARCUS PETERS, ex-Washington (5-11 ½, 196, 4.50, 1-2):Fourth-year junior. "He's an interesting fellow," said one scout. "He plays well so somebody will take him because of that. He didn't run quite as fast as you wish he did. Whether anybody takes him in the first round is suspect." Played three seasons, starting 27 of 35 games before being booted off the team in November after several confrontations with members of the Huskies' coaching staff. Finished with 129 tackles (9 ½ for loss), 11 picks and 35 PBUs. "He's very, very smooth," another scout said. "Good press man. Played a lot of zone in bail technique. He gives inconsistent effort. Needs to be more physical. Inconsistent tackler. He's a high grabber. At the school they said he was talented, immature, headstrong, not a team guy and mouthy on and off the field. I gave him a third-round grade. He was just so inconsistent." Played at McClymond High in Oakland. Wonderlic of 13. "He's not talented enough to where he's a top-10 pick and you say, 'I'll take the issues and deal with him,'" a third scout said. "He lived with Marshawn Lynch. This is a guy ...I don't think anything has ever been his fault. Guess what? People that think that way usually have more issues."

5. BYRON JONES, Connecticut (6-0 ½, 199. 4.42, 1-2): Started at FS in 2011-'12 before moving to CB in 2013-'14. "Blew up the combine," one scout said. "You see those things on the field. Really good movement skills. He played better in press." Finished with 223 tackles (3 ½ for loss), eight picks and 18 PBUs. His broad jump of 12-3 probably was longer than any player's in NFL annals. Also posted a vertical jump of 44½ and had 33 on the Wonderlic. "Doesn't play as well as he works out," said a second scout. "Doesn't have great instincts. Little stiff at the top. But all those big long guys are in vogue now because all the receivers are 6-8." Underwent shoulder surgery (labrum) near midseason. "No, he can't cover," a third scout said. "I don't think he's got the feel." From New Britain, Conn.

 

[Godsbrother]

5. BYRON JONES, Connecticut (6-0 ½, 199. 4.42, 1-2): Started at FS in 2011-'12 before moving to CB in 2013-'14. "Blew up the combine," one scout said. "You see those things on the field. Really good movement skills. He played better in press." Finished with 223 tackles (3 ½ for loss), eight picks and 18 PBUs. His broad jump of 12-3 probably was longer than any player's in NFL annals. Also posted a vertical jump of 44½ and had 33 on the Wonderlic.

Well he's no Ike Taylor...

 

[Idiot Boxer]

They only have 4 wideouts(not counting Archer. Guy's a got bust stank on him) currently who've ever seen time on an active roster, and one of them is pretty much just a gunner on teams at this point.

WR depth is needed. Maybe not with a premium pick, but I'm willing to wager they're going to draft one before round 7.

I agree. That just didn't happen when I was putting together my mock. I could see Sammie Coates in the 3rd, Tyler Lockett in the 4th or maybe Ty Montgomery in the 5th.

The depth at the WR position in this draft could lead them there, but I wouldn't expect them to prioritize it at all. If the BPA is a WR in the 4th round on, sure. Otherwise, there are too many serviceable FA WRs available

 

[5-ish Finkle]

The depth at the WR position in this draft could lead them there, but I wouldn't expect them to prioritize it at all. If the BPA is a WR in the 4th round on, sure. Otherwise, there are too many serviceable FA WRs available

Agree. Why take a guy like Coates in 3 when you could wait and take a guy like, say, Kenny Bell(who's also plus returner) or the aforementioned Lockett a round or so later?

Spend the premium picks(top 3, in my mind) on defense.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I don't see the knock against Jones aside that he only played one season at corner. He's got the size, speed and leaping ability to play the position. I don't see where he doesn't have the same potential as Johnson.

That's just it. He's inexperienced and was being viewed as a mid-round pick based on his tape at CB. Then he broke the long jump record and suddenly he's a first rounder. Sure, he has all the measurables, but as of right this minute, he's not a very good CB. You put him out there this season and he is going to get lit up. I'm not looking for a guy in round 1 that can potentially start a couple years from now, that secondary needs help NOW. Marcus Peters (for example) is a guy who's polished and physical as a CB, he could play week 1 and is probably the best corner they have the minute he reports to camp. At OLB, they could afford a bit of a project with upside because Moats, Jones, and Harrison are liable to get the bulk of the snaps barring injury. At CB, they need someone who can play now. Gay, Blake, and Allen with virtually nothing behind them is downright horrifying.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Some info on these guys...

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/rating-the-nfl-draft-prospects-defensive-backs-b99487251z1-301633761.html

He's a smart (Wonderlic of 17)

 

[Evilgrin 72]

5. BYRON JONES, Connecticut (6-0 ½, 199. 4.42, 1-2): Started at FS in 2011-'12 before moving to CB in 2013-'14. "Blew up the combine," one scout said. "You see those things on the field. Really good movement skills. He played better in press." Finished with 223 tackles (3 ½ for loss), eight picks and 18 PBUs. His broad jump of 12-3 probably was longer than any player's in NFL annals. Also posted a vertical jump of 44½ and had 33 on the Wonderlic. "Doesn't play as well as he works out," said a second scout. "Doesn't have great instincts. Little stiff at the top. But all those big long guys are in vogue now because all the receivers are 6-8." Underwent shoulder surgery (labrum) near midseason. "No, he can't cover," a third scout said. "I don't think he's got the feel." From New Britain, Conn.

The part in red is what frightens me. Round 3, sure. Round 1?

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I'm seeing Byron Jones over and over. I hope I'm wrong on this guy, but I fear that his measurables at the combine have him overhyped.

Totally agree with you.

Now, if they draft him looking to make him a FS, that's a whole different story.

It is, but the ending isn't any better to me. You don't draft FS in the first round unless they're flat out difference makers. I don't get that vibe with Jones.

If they're taking a CB in round one I really hope it's Peters, but fear it won't be given the 'tude. The DID meet with him multiple times. Think Tomlin had dinner with him, etc.

I agree, and I wouldn't touch him in round 1. However, if they do draft him at #22, I hope it's to play him at FS. I think he has the potential to develop into something special at FS - he's fast, rangy, he can jump, and he's smart. Plus, he has experience at the position. I don't think he's ever going to be a starting NFL CB.

 

[5-ish Finkle]

I agree, and I wouldn't touch him in round 1. However, if they do draft him at #22, I hope it's to play him at FS. I think he has the potential to develop into something special at FS - he's fast, rangy, he can jump, and he's smart. Plus, he has experience at the position. I don't think he's ever going to be a starting NFL CB.

Me either, at least not on the outside. You don't draft slot corners in round 1, though.

 

[Godsbrother]

5. BYRON JONES, Connecticut (6-0 ½, 199. 4.42, 1-2): Started at FS in 2011-'12 before moving to CB in 2013-'14. "Blew up the combine," one scout said. "You see those things on the field. Really good movement skills. He played better in press." Finished with 223 tackles (3 ½ for loss), eight picks and 18 PBUs. His broad jump of 12-3 probably was longer than any player's in NFL annals. Also posted a vertical jump of 44½ and had 33 on the Wonderlic. "Doesn't play as well as he works out," said a second scout. "Doesn't have great instincts. Little stiff at the top. But all those big long guys are in vogue now because all the receivers are 6-8." Underwent shoulder surgery (labrum) near midseason. "No, he can't cover," a third scout said. "I don't think he's got the feel." From New Britain, Conn.

The part in red is what frightens me. Round 3, sure. Round 1?

I am not necessarily advocating Jones over Johnson or Peters but I think all of these scouting reports have red flags. For instance:

3. MARCUS PETERS, ex-Washington (5-11 ½, 196, 4.50, 1-2):Fourth-year junior. "He's an interesting fellow," said one scout. "He plays well so somebody will take him because of that. He didn't run quite as fast as you wish he did. Whether anybody takes him in the first round is suspect." Played three seasons, starting 27 of 35 games before being booted off the team in November after several confrontations with members of the Huskies' coaching staff. Finished with 129 tackles (9 ½ for loss), 11 picks and 35 PBUs. "He's very, very smooth," another scout said. "Good press man. Played a lot of zone in bail technique. He gives inconsistent effort. Needs to be more physical. Inconsistent tackler. He's a high grabber. At the school they said he was talented, immature, headstrong, not a team guy and mouthy on and off the field. I gave him a third-round grade. He was just so inconsistent." Played at McClymond High in Oakland. Wonderlic of 13. "He's not talented enough to where he's a top-10 pick and you say, 'I'll take the issues and deal with him,'" a third scout said. "He lived with Marshawn Lynch. This is a guy ...I don't think anything has ever been his fault. Guess what? People that think that way usually have more issues."

Lots of red flags for Peters as well.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

I think there is a good chance both Gregory and Ray drop to the Steelers pick. It would not surprise me if Gregory goes to Pittsburgh and Ray ends up at Baltimore.

Ray's arrest puts him in the NFL's susbstance abuse program - no idea if Gregory will be subject to the program also.

Gregory may actually be worse. Ray is subject to the "behavioral" portion of Stage 1. No punishment and if he keeps clean for 90 days (or so) it would be like he never was in stage 1. Gregory failed a drug test so stage 1 is on his "permanent record" so to say. Some light reading. https://nflpaweb.blob.core.windows.net/media/Default/PDFs/Active%20Players/Drug_SOA_Policy_9-29-14.pdf

All drug/suspension/charactor/ankle bracelet issues put aside for the sake of discussion -- who do you guys like as the better player between the two of them?

 

[Godsbrother]

I agree, and I wouldn't touch him in round 1. However, if they do draft him at #22, I hope it's to play him at FS. I think he has the potential to develop into something special at FS - he's fast, rangy, he can jump, and he's smart. Plus, he has experience at the position. I don't think he's ever going to be a starting NFL CB.

Me either, at least not on the outside. You don't draft slot corners in round 1, though.

Maybe, maybe not but he is fastest of the three -- he could develop into a decent corner. People around here were ready to jump off a bridge because we lost McCain.

 

[Godsbrother]

I think there is a good chance both Gregory and Ray drop to the Steelers pick. It would not surprise me if Gregory goes to Pittsburgh and Ray ends up at Baltimore.

Ray's arrest puts him in the NFL's susbstance abuse program - no idea if Gregory will be subject to the program also.

Gregory may actually be worse. Ray is subject to the "behavioral" portion of Stage 1. No punishment and if he keeps clean for 90 days (or so) it would be like he never was in stage 1. Gregory failed a drug test so stage 1 is on his "permanent record" so to say. Some light reading. https://nflpaweb.blob.core.windows.net/media/Default/PDFs/Active%20Players/Drug_SOA_Policy_9-29-14.pdf

All drug/suspension/charactor/ankle bracelet issues put aside for the sake of discussion -- who do you guys like as the better player between the two of them?

I would take Ray. He sounds like just what the Steelers need (minus the pot thing...)