20+ MLB players to be suspended? Braun, A-Rod? (1 Viewer)

[comfortably numb]

Pujols and Miguel Cabrerra shaking in their cleats right about now.

Miguel doesn't do steroids. He's just always been good.

Sorry, he's a BIG NAME so he MUST be shaking in his cleats right about now.

Pretty much his entire career, he's been accused by (opposing) fans of using PEDs. He knows this, and he's already had problems with alcohol in the past, so why would he jeopardize a sizable portion of his career by using?

He is on something, it could be cheeseburgers, but this was his rookie year in 2000http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/lt/lt_cache/thumbnail/960/img/photos/2012/10/13/c7/4e/miggie2003.JPG

http://blog.pennlive.com/bleachernoise/2007/11/medium_miggy20.jpg

usually if you add this much weight you don't win a triple crown

 

[Kal El]

Pujols and Miguel Cabrerra shaking in their cleats right about now.

Miguel doesn't do steroids. He's just always been good.

Sorry, he's a BIG NAME so he MUST be shaking in his cleats right about now.

Pretty much his entire career, he's been accused by (opposing) fans of using PEDs. He knows this, and he's already had problems with alcohol in the past, so why would he jeopardize a sizable portion of his career by using?

He is on something, it could be cheeseburgers, but this was his rookie year in 2000http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/lt/lt_cache/thumbnail/960/img/photos/2012/10/13/c7/4e/miggie2003.JPG

http://blog.pennlive.com/bleachernoise/2007/11/medium_miggy20.jpg

usually if you add this much weight you don't win a triple crown

13 years can add a lot of extra weight (There's also good food in Detroit). My point remains that if the MLB was looking for steroids, many fans would point to Miguel as the top of the list of people who they think are on steroids.

 

[Eephus]

Pujols and Miguel Cabrerra shaking in their cleats right about now.

Miguel doesn't do steroids. He's just always been good.

Sorry, he's a BIG NAME so he MUST be shaking in his cleats right about now.

Pretty much his entire career, he's been accused by (opposing) fans of using PEDs. He knows this, and he's already had problems with alcohol in the past, so why would he jeopardize a sizable portion of his career by using?

He is on something, it could be cheeseburgers, but this was his rookie year in 2000http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/lt/lt_cache/thumbnail/960/img/photos/2012/10/13/c7/4e/miggie2003.JPG

http://blog.pennlive.com/bleachernoise/2007/11/medium_miggy20.jpg

usually if you add this much weight you don't win a triple crown

13 years can add a lot of extra weight (There's also good food in Detroit). My point remains that if the MLB was looking for steroids, many fans would point to Miguel as the top of the list of people who they think are on steroids.

Alcohol has lots of calories

 

[Sinn Fein]

Pujols and Miguel Cabrerra shaking in their cleats right about now.

Miguel doesn't do steroids. He's just always been good.

Sorry, he's a BIG NAME so he MUST be shaking in his cleats right about now.

Pretty much his entire career, he's been accused by (opposing) fans of using PEDs. He knows this, and he's already had problems with alcohol in the past, so why would he jeopardize a sizable portion of his career by using?

He is on something, it could be cheeseburgers, but this was his rookie year in 2000http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/lt/lt_cache/thumbnail/960/img/photos/2012/10/13/c7/4e/miggie2003.JPG

http://blog.pennlive.com/bleachernoise/2007/11/medium_miggy20.jpg

usually if you add this much weight you don't win a triple crown

13 years can add a lot of extra weight (There's also good food in Detroit). My point remains that if the MLB was looking for steroids, many fans would point to Miguel as the top of the list of people who they think are on steroids.

Why would they do that?

 

[Todem]

No way Jeter is named.

If he is......I would be beyond shocked.

I am already going to have to explain to my 8 year old about Cano if he is one of the players suspended.

Another black eye on the greatest game in the world. Breaks my heart.

Where in my post did I say it is difficult?

He idolizes Derick Jeter, Cano, any Yankee. So it is not very pleasent to talk to your 8 year old son who loves baseball with an innocent passion that some of his baseball heros use drugs.

Not difficult.....just not pleasent.

Sheesh guys.

 

[NCCommish]

No way Jeter is named. If he is......I would be beyond shocked. I am already going to have to explain to my 8 year old about Cano if he is one of the players suspended. Another black eye on the greatest game in the world. Breaks my heart.

Where in my post did I say it is difficult? He idolizes Derick Jeter, Cano, any Yankee. So it is not very pleasent to talk to your 8 year old son who loves baseball with an innocent passion that some of his baseball heros use drugs. Not difficult.....just not pleasent. Sheesh guys.

It's likely most of his sports heros use some kind of drugs. Pro Sports haven't really been clean in decades. College isn't much better. And nowadays you have to wonder about high school sports.

 

[Kal El]

Pujols and Miguel Cabrerra shaking in their cleats right about now.

Miguel doesn't do steroids. He's just always been good.

Sorry, he's a BIG NAME so he MUST be shaking in his cleats right about now.

Pretty much his entire career, he's been accused by (opposing) fans of using PEDs. He knows this, and he's already had problems with alcohol in the past, so why would he jeopardize a sizable portion of his career by using?

He is on something, it could be cheeseburgers, but this was his rookie year in 2000http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/lt/lt_cache/thumbnail/960/img/photos/2012/10/13/c7/4e/miggie2003.JPG

http://blog.pennlive.com/bleachernoise/2007/11/medium_miggy20.jpg

usually if you add this much weight you don't win a triple crown

13 years can add a lot of extra weight (There's also good food in Detroit). My point remains that if the MLB was looking for steroids, many fans would point to Miguel as the top of the list of people who they think are on steroids.

Why would they do that?

Because he's one of the best in the game now, and some people are jealous that he's not playing for their favorite team.

Eephus, I agree, but I hear that he's working with the Tigers to avoid alcohol, since his last arrest in Florida.

 

[Buckfast 1]

So, you want the players to agree to a system where their guaranteed contracts can be placed into jeopardy by a testing system controlled by the people that are supposed to pay those guaranteed contracts? Sounds sensible.

"Vernon Wells, we regret to inform you that your urine sample tested positive for PEDs. Congrats, you are now a free agent!" [wink to the guy in a lab coat holding Vernon Well's urine sample] - Angels GM saving a hundred million dollars under that system

 

[sporthenry]

So, you want the players to agree to a system where their guaranteed contracts can be placed into jeopardy by a testing system controlled by the people that are supposed to pay those guaranteed contracts? Sounds sensible.

"Vernon Wells, we regret to inform you that your urine sample tested positive for PEDs. Congrats, you are now a free agent!" [wink to the guy in a lab coat holding Vernon Well's urine sample] - Angels GM saving a hundred million dollars under that system

What prevents the police or just random companies doing this with piss tests?

 

[pantagrapher]

You guys do know that the legal system often uses one criminal turning on the others to get convictions. This whole idea that because someone involved is testifying negates their testimony is just stupid. It's how it works here every day of the week. If this guy has some kind of corroborating proof, and you can bet he probably does, the players union can stamp it's feet all it wants.

I don't understand your point. Are you saying that because MLB has one witness and some handwritten notes, the MLBPA can't fight the claims? Or are you saying even if they do fight it, they will lose?

I'm saying people who think the testimony is worthless are fooling themselves.

His testimony will be highly suspect. He's hardly an upstanding citizen and he has every motivation to lie in a manner that would please Bud Selig. He's got major credibility concerns and if this were a criminal case, no prosecutor I know of would go to trial without more that Bosch's word.

This sounds a lot like the arguments people used to make about Jose Canseco...

Sometimes, bad people tell the truth about things people don't want to know about.

Yup.

 

[pantagrapher]

Fantasy baseball accounts I follow on twitter were pretty much unanimously outraged at MLB for this. A lot of sportswriters seemed to take a more disinterested approach. I usually feel like the reaction to stuff like this is exactly the opposite, with beat writers quick to echo whatever their team sources want the narrative to be and fantasy writers taking a more detached, realistic view.

I'm surprised anyone would act shocked and outraged that MLB would suspend dozens of top MLB players for using PEDs based on their doctor's testimony and notes. I also don't understand why people think the guy is lying about providing these players with steroids. Not much incentive to do that; plenty of disincentive.

 

[dparker713]

No way Jeter is named.

If he is......I would be beyond shocked.

I am already going to have to explain to my 8 year old about Cano if he is one of the players suspended.

Another black eye on the greatest game in the world. Breaks my heart.

Where in my post did I say it is difficult?

He idolizes Derick Jeter, Cano, any Yankee. So it is not very pleasent to talk to your 8 year old son who loves baseball with an innocent passion that some of his baseball heros use drugs.

Not difficult.....just not pleasent.

Sheesh guys.

Only if you ascribe great moral failings to those that use PEDs than those that fake getting plunked.

 

[dparker713]

Fantasy baseball accounts I follow on twitter were pretty much unanimously outraged at MLB for this. A lot of sportswriters seemed to take a more disinterested approach. I usually feel like the reaction to stuff like this is exactly the opposite, with beat writers quick to echo whatever their team sources want the narrative to be and fantasy writers taking a more detached, realistic view.

I'm surprised anyone would act shocked and outraged that MLB would suspend dozens of top MLB players for using PEDs based on their doctor's testimony and notes. I also don't understand why people think the guy is lying about providing these players with steroids. Not much incentive to do that; plenty of disincentive.

What exactly is his disincentive to lie in this case? He tells MLB what they want to hear, he gets a lawsuit dismissed, gets financially protected by MLB, and he's provided with assurances that he won't be prosecuted.

 

[Abraham]

MLB can't compel the guy to say anything. I'd imagine he might lie - I'm a little surprised we haven't yet heard of any extortion stories. But him being self interested and telling the truth are not mutually exclusive. He is broke and had apparently found the most lucrative port at which to dock his boat. But that doesn't make him a liar.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Pujols and Miguel Cabrerra shaking in their cleats right about now.

Miguel doesn't do steroids. He's just always been good.

Sorry, he's a BIG NAME so he MUST be shaking in his cleats right about now.

Pretty much his entire career, he's been accused by (opposing) fans of using PEDs. He knows this, and he's already had problems with alcohol in the past, so why would he jeopardize a sizable portion of his career by using?

He is on something, it could be cheeseburgers, but this was his rookie year in 2000http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/lt/lt_cache/thumbnail/960/img/photos/2012/10/13/c7/4e/miggie2003.JPG

http://blog.pennlive.com/bleachernoise/2007/11/medium_miggy20.jpg

usually if you add this much weight you don't win a triple crown

13 years can add a lot of extra weight (There's also good food in Detroit). My point remains that if the MLB was looking for steroids, many fans would point to Miguel as the top of the list of people who they think are on steroids.

I want to see all these people who think Miggy is on roids. I actually have never heard any reasonable baseball fan even suggest it.

 

[pantagrapher]

Fantasy baseball accounts I follow on twitter were pretty much unanimously outraged at MLB for this. A lot of sportswriters seemed to take a more disinterested approach. I usually feel like the reaction to stuff like this is exactly the opposite, with beat writers quick to echo whatever their team sources want the narrative to be and fantasy writers taking a more detached, realistic view.

I'm surprised anyone would act shocked and outraged that MLB would suspend dozens of top MLB players for using PEDs based on their doctor's testimony and notes. I also don't understand why people think the guy is lying about providing these players with steroids. Not much incentive to do that; plenty of disincentive.

What exactly is his disincentive to lie in this case? He tells MLB what they want to hear, he gets a lawsuit dismissed, gets financially protected by MLB, and he's provided with assurances that he won't be prosecuted.

Assuming this is a standard agreement, if any of his allegations prove false, the whole deal is null. And then he's opening himself up to a whole slew of lawsuits. I assume this guy has a lawyer. Probably a pretty good one. And I suspect a good lawyer would tell him that if he makes this deal, he better tell the truth.

 

[pantagrapher]

Pujols and Miguel Cabrerra shaking in their cleats right about now.

Miguel doesn't do steroids. He's just always been good.

Sorry, he's a BIG NAME so he MUST be shaking in his cleats right about now.

Pretty much his entire career, he's been accused by (opposing) fans of using PEDs. He knows this, and he's already had problems with alcohol in the past, so why would he jeopardize a sizable portion of his career by using?

He is on something, it could be cheeseburgers, but this was his rookie year in 2000http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/lt/lt_cache/thumbnail/960/img/photos/2012/10/13/c7/4e/miggie2003.JPG

http://blog.pennlive.com/bleachernoise/2007/11/medium_miggy20.jpg

usually if you add this much weight you don't win a triple crown

13 years can add a lot of extra weight (There's also good food in Detroit). My point remains that if the MLB was looking for steroids, many fans would point to Miguel as the top of the list of people who they think are on steroids.

I want to see all these people who think Miggy is on roids. I actually have never heard any reasonable baseball fan even suggest it.

Really?

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Pujols and Miguel Cabrerra shaking in their cleats right about now.

Miguel doesn't do steroids. He's just always been good.

Sorry, he's a BIG NAME so he MUST be shaking in his cleats right about now.

Pretty much his entire career, he's been accused by (opposing) fans of using PEDs. He knows this, and he's already had problems with alcohol in the past, so why would he jeopardize a sizable portion of his career by using?

He is on something, it could be cheeseburgers, but this was his rookie year in 2000http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/lt/lt_cache/thumbnail/960/img/photos/2012/10/13/c7/4e/miggie2003.JPG

http://blog.pennlive.com/bleachernoise/2007/11/medium_miggy20.jpg

usually if you add this much weight you don't win a triple crown

13 years can add a lot of extra weight (There's also good food in Detroit). My point remains that if the MLB was looking for steroids, many fans would point to Miguel as the top of the list of people who they think are on steroids.

I want to see all these people who think Miggy is on roids. I actually have never heard any reasonable baseball fan even suggest it.

Really?

Yes, really.

 

[pollardsvision]

You guys do know that the legal system often uses one criminal turning on the others to get convictions. This whole idea that because someone involved is testifying negates their testimony is just stupid. It's how it works here every day of the week. If this guy has some kind of corroborating proof, and you can bet he probably does, the players union can stamp it's feet all it wants.

I don't understand your point. Are you saying that because MLB has one witness and some handwritten notes, the MLBPA can't fight the claims? Or are you saying even if they do fight it, they will lose?

I'm saying people who think the testimony is worthless are fooling themselves.

By all accounts Bosch isn't exactly the most credible or upstanding citizen. The guy is an illegal drug dealer who signed a deal with MLB in hopes that it would reduce his sentence with the federal courts. Additionally, this is a slippery slope for MLB. The current system is dependent on a player failing a test. There were no tests failed here. All there is, is one guy stating that X players were provided with these drugs. Even if they were supplied with them, if there is no evidence they took them, what is the grounds for suspension? Seems like a long court battle is about to begin

CBA does not require failed drug test to suspend/punish.

As others have mentioned, this is probably as much a PR move as anything. It helps vindicate MLB's position on Braun - cheater; it also demonstrates a proactive move by the league to address what some, including congress, consider a problem; and, it will put the players on the defensive when talking about future testing - and since it appears most players want a "cleaner" game this will go in the owners favor at the next CBA bargaining session.

There really is no down-side for MLB owners here.

I'm not sure I see the upside.

I know they are doing this to give the impression that they are doing everything they can to clean up the game.

But a two other things will happen in the process and will likely overshadow that sentiment:

-Obviously, it keeps MLB and PEDs in the headlines, further associating MLB with PEDs.

-MLB is actually in position to look like the bad guys here with a long drawn-out battle to punish guys that never failed a test. Most fans weren't even aware that you could be suspended without failing a drug test and I don't MLB will come off well in the process. If there's a way to make likely PED users into sympathetic figures, this is the way to do it.

Despite an apparent effort to keep cleaning things up, MLB is just going to further deepen the perception that the game is littered with them, while, at the same time, looking like they are railroading their players with the testimony of scumbags.

They need to take the NFL approach. Test for it, throw out some slaps on the wrist for offenders, and go figure out a way make the Owner's Meetings a huge primetime event.

 

[pantagrapher]

Pujols and Miguel Cabrerra shaking in their cleats right about now.

Miguel doesn't do steroids. He's just always been good.

Sorry, he's a BIG NAME so he MUST be shaking in his cleats right about now.

Pretty much his entire career, he's been accused by (opposing) fans of using PEDs. He knows this, and he's already had problems with alcohol in the past, so why would he jeopardize a sizable portion of his career by using?

He is on something, it could be cheeseburgers, but this was his rookie year in 2000http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/lt/lt_cache/thumbnail/960/img/photos/2012/10/13/c7/4e/miggie2003.JPG

http://blog.pennlive.com/bleachernoise/2007/11/medium_miggy20.jpg

usually if you add this much weight you don't win a triple crown

13 years can add a lot of extra weight (There's also good food in Detroit). My point remains that if the MLB was looking for steroids, many fans would point to Miguel as the top of the list of people who they think are on steroids.

I want to see all these people who think Miggy is on roids. I actually have never heard any reasonable baseball fan even suggest it.

Really?

Yes, really.

I think I'm a reasonable baseball fan and I assume most of the marquee players use steroids to some extent. Including Cabrera.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Hamburgers

Gin n

Ho-ho's

 

[pantagrapher]

They need to take the NFL approach. Test for it, throw out some slaps on the wrist for offenders, and go figure out a way make the Owner's Meetings a huge primetime event.

NFL has done a heckuva job keeping steroids out of the league.

 

[Jaysus]

Pujols and Miguel Cabrerra shaking in their cleats right about now.

Miguel doesn't do steroids. He's just always been good.

Sorry, he's a BIG NAME so he MUST be shaking in his cleats right about now.

Pretty much his entire career, he's been accused by (opposing) fans of using PEDs. He knows this, and he's already had problems with alcohol in the past, so why would he jeopardize a sizable portion of his career by using?

He is on something, it could be cheeseburgers, but this was his rookie year in 2000http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/lt/lt_cache/thumbnail/960/img/photos/2012/10/13/c7/4e/miggie2003.JPG

http://blog.pennlive.com/bleachernoise/2007/11/medium_miggy20.jpg

usually if you add this much weight you don't win a triple crown

13 years can add a lot of extra weight (There's also good food in Detroit). My point remains that if the MLB was looking for steroids, many fans would point to Miguel as the top of the list of people who they think are on steroids.

I want to see all these people who think Miggy is on roids. I actually have never heard any reasonable baseball fan even suggest it.

Really?

Yes, really.

I think I'm a reasonable baseball fan and I assume most of the marquee players use steroids to some extent. Including Cabrera.

I wish he did, then he would be even MORE fun to watch!!

 

[pollardsvision]

They need to take the NFL approach. Test for it, throw out some slaps on the wrist for offenders, and go figure out a way make the Owner's Meetings a huge primetime event.

NFL has done a heckuva job keeping steroids out of the league.

Maybe they have. I wouldn't know.

Let me ask, how many health club and clubhouse rats have they squeezed to get to that point?

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Pujols and Miguel Cabrerra shaking in their cleats right about now.

Miguel doesn't do steroids. He's just always been good.

Sorry, he's a BIG NAME so he MUST be shaking in his cleats right about now.

Pretty much his entire career, he's been accused by (opposing) fans of using PEDs. He knows this, and he's already had problems with alcohol in the past, so why would he jeopardize a sizable portion of his career by using?

He is on something, it could be cheeseburgers, but this was his rookie year in 2000http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/lt/lt_cache/thumbnail/960/img/photos/2012/10/13/c7/4e/miggie2003.JPG

http://blog.pennlive.com/bleachernoise/2007/11/medium_miggy20.jpg

usually if you add this much weight you don't win a triple crown

13 years can add a lot of extra weight (There's also good food in Detroit). My point remains that if the MLB was looking for steroids, many fans would point to Miguel as the top of the list of people who they think are on steroids.

I want to see all these people who think Miggy is on roids. I actually have never heard any reasonable baseball fan even suggest it.

Really?

Yes, really.

I think I'm a reasonable baseball fan and I assume most of the marquee players use steroids to some extent. Including Cabrera.

Do you think all black people can't swim?

 

[pantagrapher]

I think I'm a reasonable baseball fan and I assume most of the marquee players use steroids to some extent. Including Cabrera.

Do you think all black people can't swim?

Good posting.

 

[Abraham]

I think they should give the players association an amnesty option - tell then players have until the end of this year to cop to using and the get to start over. Subsequent offenses are the first offense. But the only way the game gets clean is if the players by into it. I think baseball realizes the penalty is not severe enough. I, for one, think suspensions should be 50, 100, etc AND include the playoffs.

 

[sho nuff]

Pujols and Miguel Cabrerra shaking in their cleats right about now.

Miguel doesn't do steroids. He's just always been good.

Sorry, he's a BIG NAME so he MUST be shaking in his cleats right about now.

Pretty much his entire career, he's been accused by (opposing) fans of using PEDs. He knows this, and he's already had problems with alcohol in the past, so why would he jeopardize a sizable portion of his career by using?

He is on something, it could be cheeseburgers, but this was his rookie year in 2000http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/lt/lt_cache/thumbnail/960/img/photos/2012/10/13/c7/4e/miggie2003.JPG

http://blog.pennlive.com/bleachernoise/2007/11/medium_miggy20.jpg

usually if you add this much weight you don't win a triple crown

13 years can add a lot of extra weight (There's also good food in Detroit). My point remains that if the MLB was looking for steroids, many fans would point to Miguel as the top of the list of people who they think are on steroids.

Why would they do that?

Because he's one of the best in the game now, and some people are jealous that he's not playing for their favorite team.

Eephus, I agree, but I hear that he's working with the Tigers to avoid alcohol, since his last arrest in Florida.

You realize Braun was "clean" until he was caught too right?

Why would he jeopardize that...blah blah blah...when he has always been good?

 

[sho nuff]

Pujols and Miguel Cabrerra shaking in their cleats right about now.

Miguel doesn't do steroids. He's just always been good.

Sorry, he's a BIG NAME so he MUST be shaking in his cleats right about now.

Pretty much his entire career, he's been accused by (opposing) fans of using PEDs. He knows this, and he's already had problems with alcohol in the past, so why would he jeopardize a sizable portion of his career by using?

He is on something, it could be cheeseburgers, but this was his rookie year in 2000http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/lt/lt_cache/thumbnail/960/img/photos/2012/10/13/c7/4e/miggie2003.JPG

http://blog.pennlive.com/bleachernoise/2007/11/medium_miggy20.jpg

usually if you add this much weight you don't win a triple crown

13 years can add a lot of extra weight (There's also good food in Detroit). My point remains that if the MLB was looking for steroids, many fans would point to Miguel as the top of the list of people who they think are on steroids.

I want to see all these people who think Miggy is on roids. I actually have never heard any reasonable baseball fan even suggest it.

I don't think he is...but there is always the possibility.

Never thought Braun was either...things change.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I think they should give the players association an amnesty option - tell then players have until the end of this year to cop to using and the get to start over. Subsequent offenses are the first offense. But the only way the game gets clean is if the players by into it. I think baseball realizes the penalty is not severe enough. I, for one, think suspensions should be 50, 100, etc AND include the playoffs.

They do now.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Pujols and Miguel Cabrerra shaking in their cleats right about now.

Miguel doesn't do steroids. He's just always been good.

Sorry, he's a BIG NAME so he MUST be shaking in his cleats right about now.

Pretty much his entire career, he's been accused by (opposing) fans of using PEDs. He knows this, and he's already had problems with alcohol in the past, so why would he jeopardize a sizable portion of his career by using?

He is on something, it could be cheeseburgers, but this was his rookie year in 2000http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/lt/lt_cache/thumbnail/960/img/photos/2012/10/13/c7/4e/miggie2003.JPG

http://blog.pennlive.com/bleachernoise/2007/11/medium_miggy20.jpg

usually if you add this much weight you don't win a triple crown

13 years can add a lot of extra weight (There's also good food in Detroit). My point remains that if the MLB was looking for steroids, many fans would point to Miguel as the top of the list of people who they think are on steroids.

I want to see all these people who think Miggy is on roids. I actually have never heard any reasonable baseball fan even suggest it.

I don't think he is...but there is always the possibility.

Never thought Braun was either...things change.

 

[sho nuff]

Nothing about what I stated was unreasonable...nor is anything about what type of baseball fan I am.

So...to use the right cliche for this thread...swing and a miss (typical of you ghetto boss)

 

[pittstownkiller]

They need to take the NFL approach. Test for it, throw out some slaps on the wrist for offenders, and go figure out a way make the Owner's Meetings a huge primetime event.

NFL has done a heckuva job keeping steroids out of the league.

Yep, they toss a couple no name players under the buss every couple of months.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Nothing about what I stated was unreasonable...nor is anything about what type of baseball fan I am.

So...to use the right cliche for this thread...swing and a miss (typical of you ghetto boss)

You're useless to the internet.

 

[Kal El]

Pujols and Miguel Cabrerra shaking in their cleats right about now.

Miguel doesn't do steroids. He's just always been good.

Sorry, he's a BIG NAME so he MUST be shaking in his cleats right about now.

Pretty much his entire career, he's been accused by (opposing) fans of using PEDs. He knows this, and he's already had problems with alcohol in the past, so why would he jeopardize a sizable portion of his career by using?

He is on something, it could be cheeseburgers, but this was his rookie year in 2000http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/lt/lt_cache/thumbnail/960/img/photos/2012/10/13/c7/4e/miggie2003.JPG

http://blog.pennlive.com/bleachernoise/2007/11/medium_miggy20.jpg

usually if you add this much weight you don't win a triple crown

13 years can add a lot of extra weight (There's also good food in Detroit). My point remains that if the MLB was looking for steroids, many fans would point to Miguel as the top of the list of people who they think are on steroids.

Why would they do that?

Because he's one of the best in the game now, and some people are jealous that he's not playing for their favorite team.

Eephus, I agree, but I hear that he's working with the Tigers to avoid alcohol, since his last arrest in Florida.

You realize Braun was "clean" until he was caught too right?

Why would he jeopardize that...blah blah blah...when he has always been good?

IIRC, Braun got his suspension overturned because of mishandling of his sample. I've never been a huge fan of people using PEDs, always seemed like cheating, even though Mcgwire made the game fun to watch again.

As for Miguel, he's gotten in enough trouble with alcohol that he probably feels that PEDs aren't worth the extra hassle.

 

[NCCommish]

Nothing about what I stated was unreasonable...nor is anything about what type of baseball fan I am.

So...to use the right cliche for this thread...swing and a miss (typical of you ghetto boss)

You're useless to the internet.

Well to be honest Doc you seem to be another blind eye here and not sure Pants and Sho are the ones showing out. I say that as a huge fan of your work in general here.

 

[NCCommish]

They need to take the NFL approach. Test for it, throw out some slaps on the wrist for offenders, and go figure out a way make the Owner's Meetings a huge primetime event.

NFL has done a heckuva job keeping steroids out of the league.

Maybe they have. I wouldn't know. Let me ask, how many health club and clubhouse rats have they squeezed to get to that point?

No they haven't. I have met with many former NFLers who say the roids/peds really became a problem in the mid to late 70's and continue into today. It has crept into almost every level of the sport starting at high school. Everyone in the league knows it. The owners would like to do something about it but they are afraid of killing the golden goose on the other hand.

 

[sho nuff]

in

Pujols and Miguel Cabrerra shaking in their cleats right about now.

Miguel doesn't do steroids. He's just always been good.

Sorry, he's a BIG NAME so he MUST be shaking in his cleats right about now.

Pretty much his entire career, he's been accused by (opposing) fans of using PEDs. He knows this, and he's already had problems with alcohol in the past, so why would he jeopardize a sizable portion of his career by using?

He is on something, it could be cheeseburgers, but this was his rookie year in 2000http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/lt/lt_cache/thumbnail/960/img/photos/2012/10/13/c7/4e/miggie2003.JPG

http://blog.pennlive.com/bleachernoise/2007/11/medium_miggy20.jpg

usually if you add this much weight you don't win a triple crown

13 years can add a lot of extra weight (There's also good food in Detroit). My point remains that if the MLB was looking for steroids, many fans would point to Miguel as the top of the list of people who they think are on steroids.

Why would they do that?

Because he's one of the best in the game now, and some people are jealous that he's not playing for their favorite team.

Eephus, I agree, but I hear that he's working with the Tigers to avoid alcohol, since his last arrest in Florida.

You realize Braun was "clean" until he was caught too right?

Why would he jeopardize that...blah blah blah...when he has always been good?

IIRC, Braun got his suspension overturned because of mishandling of his sample. I've never been a huge fan of people using PEDs, always seemed like cheating, even though Mcgwire made the game fun to watch again.

As for Miguel, he's gotten in enough trouble with alcohol that he probably feels that PEDs aren't worth the extra hassle.

Yes...Braun used...and may be busted again...thats the point. until his first failed test he. was thought of as clean too.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Well to be honest Doc you seem to be another blind eye here and not sure Pants and Sho are the ones showing out. I say that as a huge fan of your work in general here.

My response for Sho Nuff was at his constant use of :e: as a platform for his petty childishness.

As far as Cabrera, I watch him every day and have for years. He is a natural, as good a pure right-handed hitter as I've ever seen play baseball. He's slow, he isn't the greatest in the field and he puts on weight throughout the year. Ryan Braun is not nor ever was Miguel Cabrera, he excels in other parts of the game and is an excellent hitter. Once in a generation hitter? No.

Cabrera hits like Carew and Boggs with more power. His statistics are fairly consistent over his career and since he is in his prime, you expect increasing counting numbers. That's what you are getting and based on everything we know and what he can do as a pure hitter, I have no reason to suspect he uses PEDs. Could he? Sure, nothing points to it. He has nine full major league seasons and has only twice had an OPS under 900 (those years were close to 900) and four at different points that were .998 or higher.

We have watched him since he was 19 years old, and the only thing he has more of these days is hot dog fat. Guy just hits, and hits and hits. You want to suspect other tigers, fine. Fielder? Sure. maybe. VMART, Hunter, etc? Sure. I just don't see Cabrera fitting the mold, the stats, my eyes and his ability tell me otherwise.

 

[pollardsvision]

They need to take the NFL approach. Test for it, throw out some slaps on the wrist for offenders, and go figure out a way make the Owner's Meetings a huge primetime event.

NFL has done a heckuva job keeping steroids out of the league.

Maybe they have. I wouldn't know. Let me ask, how many health club and clubhouse rats have they squeezed to get to that point?

No they haven't. I have met with many former NFLers who say the roids/peds really became a problem in the mid to late 70's and continue into today. It has crept into almost every level of the sport starting at high school. Everyone in the league knows it. The owners would like to do something about it but they are afraid of killing the golden goose on the other hand.

Which is pretty smart.

Maybe PED's are rampant in the NFL, but I'd guarantee most fans think they have a better handle on it than MLB does.

Another reason MLB is silly to do this is the simple association with dirtbag drug dealers. When you not only cooperate with some lowlife, but depend on them to help run your league, it makes you look shady and like you have no idea what you are doing (even if turning dirtbags into rats might actually be a good way to weed out PED's).

 

[dparker713]

MLB can't compel the guy to say anything. I'd imagine he might lie - I'm a little surprised we haven't yet heard of any extortion stories. But him being self interested and telling the truth are not mutually exclusive. He is broke and had apparently found the most lucrative port at which to dock his boat. But that doesn't make him a liar.

He's already categorically denied supplying PEDs to the players in question. Presuming he's going to directly contradict himself is a pretty reasonable expectation. So the lawyers for the players will get to ask if he was lying then, or if he's lying now.

 

[NCCommish]

Well to be honest Doc you seem to be another blind eye here and not sure Pants and Sho are the ones showing out. I say that as a huge fan of your work in general here.

My response for Sho Nuff was at his constant use of :e: as a platform for his petty childishness.

As far as Cabrera, I watch him every day and have for years. He is a natural, as good a pure right-handed hitter as I've ever seen play baseball. He's slow, he isn't the greatest in the field and he puts on weight throughout the year. Ryan Braun is not nor ever was Miguel Cabrera, he excels in other parts of the game and is an excellent hitter. Once in a generation hitter? No.

Cabrera hits like Carew and Boggs with more power. His statistics are fairly consistent over his career and since he is in his prime, you expect increasing counting numbers. That's what you are getting and based on everything we know and what he can do as a pure hitter, I have no reason to suspect he uses PEDs. Could he? Sure, nothing points to it. He has nine full major league seasons and has only twice had an OPS under 900 (those years were close to 900) and four at different points that were .998 or higher.

We have watched him since he was 19 years old, and the only thing he has more of these days is hot dog fat. Guy just hits, and hits and hits. You want to suspect other tigers, fine. Fielder? Sure. maybe. VMART, Hunter, etc? Sure. I just don't see Cabrera fitting the mold, the stats, my eyes and his ability tell me otherwise.

I was unaware of the :e: thing. And this post is more what I expect when I see your name on a thread. You make some points. I guess my problem is again I have spent a lot of time with retired NFL players who make it very clear that it's rampant there. Even guys who don't look the part. And I think over the years we have seen baseball isn't much different.

 

[dparker713]

Fantasy baseball accounts I follow on twitter were pretty much unanimously outraged at MLB for this. A lot of sportswriters seemed to take a more disinterested approach. I usually feel like the reaction to stuff like this is exactly the opposite, with beat writers quick to echo whatever their team sources want the narrative to be and fantasy writers taking a more detached, realistic view.

I'm surprised anyone would act shocked and outraged that MLB would suspend dozens of top MLB players for using PEDs based on their doctor's testimony and notes. I also don't understand why people think the guy is lying about providing these players with steroids. Not much incentive to do that; plenty of disincentive.

What exactly is his disincentive to lie in this case? He tells MLB what they want to hear, he gets a lawsuit dismissed, gets financially protected by MLB, and he's provided with assurances that he won't be prosecuted.

Assuming this is a standard agreement, if any of his allegations prove false, the whole deal is null. And then he's opening himself up to a whole slew of lawsuits. I assume this guy has a lawyer. Probably a pretty good one. And I suspect a good lawyer would tell him that if he makes this deal, he better tell the truth.

First off, its not that his allegations are false, its that he lied. A much tougher standard to meet. And people with their backs against the wall do stupid things all the time.

 

[Abraham]

I don't think anyone cares in football. There aren't nearly as many historical purists in football. No one argues over Jim brown vs earl Campbell the same way they argue DiMaggio vs Williams. There isn't a single football player where I would be surprised if they got busted for peds. Even a guy like Peterson, my first thought would be how it affects his fantasy ranking.

BasebAll fans like to compare eras and players and when one era is cheating it makes the conversation impossible. Nevermind that blacks weren't included for more than half a century or that cole was everywhere in the 80's, we want to discuss history. No one does that with the same vigor in football.

 

[NCCommish]

Fantasy baseball accounts I follow on twitter were pretty much unanimously outraged at MLB for this. A lot of sportswriters seemed to take a more disinterested approach. I usually feel like the reaction to stuff like this is exactly the opposite, with beat writers quick to echo whatever their team sources want the narrative to be and fantasy writers taking a more detached, realistic view.

I'm surprised anyone would act shocked and outraged that MLB would suspend dozens of top MLB players for using PEDs based on their doctor's testimony and notes. I also don't understand why people think the guy is lying about providing these players with steroids. Not much incentive to do that; plenty of disincentive.

What exactly is his disincentive to lie in this case? He tells MLB what they want to hear, he gets a lawsuit dismissed, gets financially protected by MLB, and he's provided with assurances that he won't be prosecuted.

Assuming this is a standard agreement, if any of his allegations prove false, the whole deal is null. And then he's opening himself up to a whole slew of lawsuits. I assume this guy has a lawyer. Probably a pretty good one. And I suspect a good lawyer would tell him that if he makes this deal, he better tell the truth.

First off, its not that his allegations are false, its that he lied. A much tougher standard to meet. And people with their backs against the wall do stupid things all the time.

What are you going to do when it turns out to be true? Because the smart money is on players being users.

 

[Sinn Fein]

At this stage, I don't think any player gets the benefit of the doubt. Sorry.

This is not to say that any specific player is using, or that all players are using - simply that in light of the past history of baseball players, I will believe an allegation rather than wait for a smoking gun. I believe that any and all MLB players are capable of using substances to enhance/prolong their careers.

I don't really care if players use - it does not detract from the game from my point of view - and in many ways it enhances the entertainment value of seeing guys hit further and throw harder. But, don't keep your head in the sand because someone is your favorite player, or plays for your team.

 

[dparker713]

Fantasy baseball accounts I follow on twitter were pretty much unanimously outraged at MLB for this. A lot of sportswriters seemed to take a more disinterested approach. I usually feel like the reaction to stuff like this is exactly the opposite, with beat writers quick to echo whatever their team sources want the narrative to be and fantasy writers taking a more detached, realistic view.

I'm surprised anyone would act shocked and outraged that MLB would suspend dozens of top MLB players for using PEDs based on their doctor's testimony and notes. I also don't understand why people think the guy is lying about providing these players with steroids. Not much incentive to do that; plenty of disincentive.

What exactly is his disincentive to lie in this case? He tells MLB what they want to hear, he gets a lawsuit dismissed, gets financially protected by MLB, and he's provided with assurances that he won't be prosecuted.

Assuming this is a standard agreement, if any of his allegations prove false, the whole deal is null. And then he's opening himself up to a whole slew of lawsuits. I assume this guy has a lawyer. Probably a pretty good one. And I suspect a good lawyer would tell him that if he makes this deal, he better tell the truth.

First off, its not that his allegations are false, its that he lied. A much tougher standard to meet. And people with their backs against the wall do stupid things all the time.

What are you going to do when it turns out to be true? Because the smart money is on players being users.

I don't care whether its true or not. They're adults, let them treat their bodies like laboratories. What I care about is whether or not they'll be suspended, cause that'll effect me - Braun is on one of my fantasy teams.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I don't think anyone cares in football. There aren't nearly as many historical purists in football. No one argues over Jim brown vs earl Campbell the same way they argue DiMaggio vs Williams. There isn't a single football player where I would be surprised if they got busted for peds. Even a guy like Peterson, my first thought would be how it affects his fantasy ranking.BasebAll fans like to compare eras and players and when one era is cheating it makes the conversation impossible. Nevermind that blacks weren't included for more than half a century or that cole was everywhere in the 80's, we want to discuss history. No one does that with the same vigor in football.

This.

The NFL has hidden PED use, period. Not only do they have a problem, they likely have a problem that is exponentially bigger than the other sports. One of the most entertaining things is watching anti-steroid meltdowns by fans against baseball who deny the NFL even has a problem. Mostly though, they just ignore it like the problem doesn't exist. If the NFL were to clean house, they would have to take a year off because 70% of the players would be suspended.

 

[sho nuff]

Well to be honest Doc you seem to be another blind eye here and not sure Pants and Sho are the ones showing out. I say that as a huge fan of your work in general here.

My response for Sho Nuff was at his constant use of :e: as a platform for his petty childishness.

As far as Cabrera, I watch him every day and have for years. He is a natural, as good a pure right-handed hitter as I've ever seen play baseball. He's slow, he isn't the greatest in the field and he puts on weight throughout the year. Ryan Braun is not nor ever was Miguel Cabrera, he excels in other parts of the game and is an excellent hitter. Once in a generation hitter? No.

Cabrera hits like Carew and Boggs with more power. His statistics are fairly consistent over his career and since he is in his prime, you expect increasing counting numbers. That's what you are getting and based on everything we know and what he can do as a pure hitter, I have no reason to suspect he uses PEDs. Could he? Sure, nothing points to it. He has nine full major league seasons and has only twice had an OPS under 900 (those years were close to 900) and four at different points that were .998 or higher.

We have watched him since he was 19 years old, and the only thing he has more of these days is hot dog fat. Guy just hits, and hits and hits. You want to suspect other tigers, fine. Fielder? Sure. maybe. VMART, Hunter, etc? Sure. I just don't see Cabrera fitting the mold, the stats, my eyes and his ability tell me otherwise.

Funny you bring up petty childishness...given your first response to me in this topic...then your second.

And since you mention :e:...again, talk about petty childishness...seems you are far more guilty of that here and there than most.

 

[pantagrapher]

Maybe PED's are rampant in the NFL, but I'd guarantee most fans think they have a better handle on it than MLB does.

I do not believe you can deliver on that guarantee.