2007 LB rankings (1 Viewer)

[lions327]

I don't know about anyone else, but I thought trying to figure out the redraft rankings of the 2007 LB's was very hard compared to other positions. There are a lot of changes in players and schemes, and other odds and ends.

Here is a short list of fantasy relevant LB's by team, with the issues I saw:

Chicago: Fairly easy to predict, nothing major changing (and yes, I think Lance Briggs plays in week 1). If he doesn't, there will be all kinds of questions.

Detroit: Ernie Sims should improve in his 2nd NFL year and also 2nd year in the cover 2. But how much? Who will play the majority of the time at MLB? Lenon seems to be the favorite, but how much can he do considering his average at best past performance?

Minnesota: Chad Greenway is back and since it is his first season, who knows how well he will play. he has never played a game in the NFL.

Green Bay: Hawk should improve and continue rising to the elite fantasy LB level. Barnett's numbers really slid last year. Was it because of Hawk making plays and taking numbers from Barnett, or did Barnett's level of play drop? Or both?

Dallas: Will Demarcus Ware benefit from Wade Phillips' defense and put up numbers like Merriman, or even a little below? Will Bradie James play on nickel downs?

Philadelphia: Will Jeremiah Trotter be able to squeeze another season out of his knees? The answer to this question has a direct impact on Gaither. If Gaither plays, can he fill the huge shoes of Trotter? Will Spikes return to the form he had before his achilles injury?

NY Giants: Can Kiwanuka make the transition to SLB? How will Kawika Mitchell fare playing at WLB?

Washington: How will Fletcher fit into the Redskins defense and how long will it take him to acclimate? Is Marcus Washington going to be healthy? How well can unproven Roger McIntosh play? Who will play in the nickel? I assume Fletcher and Washington (health permitting). With Fletcher usually putting up high tackle numbers, how many will be left for the other LB's?

Tampa Bay: How will Cato June play as the SLB? Will Brooks begin to show signs of age? Assuming Brooks and June play in the nickel, can Ruud make enough plays as a 2 down LB to be a viable fantasy LB?

Carolina: How long can Dan Morgan play, if at all? How will this affect Beason, who will likely compete to start at WLB, then all of a sudden may have to move to the middle...how does a rookie handle this?

New Orleans: This is one of the toughest teams to figure, even though the starters are known. Who will play the nickel? Can Simmons stay healthy?

Atlanta: Will Demorrio Williams be ready for the season? If he isn't, how well can Nicholas do if he starts? Brooking moves back to the middle and should increase his numbers, but by how much?

San Francisco: How will Patrick Willis do playing in the 3-4? Will he start week 1? Can Manny Lawson improve enough to make any kind of fantasy contribution?

St Louis. Can Witherspoon improve in his 2nd year as a MLB?

Arizona: How will Hayes do playing in the 3-4? Can Dansby play up to his talent level? Will Okefor be able to handle OLB and make enough plays?

Seattle: One of the few teams that is pretty stable at LB.

As you can see, there are a ton of questions with the LB's, and this is just the NFC. The AFC may have even more questions. The main things that I wonder about are Atlanta's WLB, where will Beason play, the Redskins overall situation, The Cardinals switching to the 3-4, Ware in Phillips' defense, Trotter and Gaither in Philly, and Ruud.

I found that when I looked at my rankings, that I saw several players that I could literally move up or down 25 spots and not even blink. They were really tough to figure out. I will try to do the AFC questions day after tomorrow. After that, I will post my rankings.

I am curious if I am the only one who thinks the LB's were the toughest position to figure because of all of the questions. For me, they were a lot harder to do than other positions. There just seemed to be a lot of players changing teams and schemes, and numerous injury concerns.

 

[lawrence phillips]

Thanks for making me more confused. All kidding aside, one of the things I really am thinking about is what we can expect out of Ernie Sims. He was ok last year. Not that its a fair comparison, but Derrick Brooks had a similar rookie year to Sims in the Tampa 2.

 

[lions327]

Thanks for making me more confused. All kidding aside, one of the things I really am thinking about is what we can expect out of Ernie Sims. He was ok last year. Not that its a fair comparison, but Derrick Brooks had a similar rookie year to Sims in the Tampa 2.

I expect Sims to be in the top 20. He has a year of experience in the NFL, and in the cover 2 defense. He was lost at times last year, often being out of position, and overrunning plays. This defense takes a lot of discipline to play. The year should help him a lot. I expect his tackle numbers to go up quite a bit just by being in the right place, and that should also help his big play numbers. He will not have to think as much as he did last year and can let his ability and instincts take over.

 

[Weiner Dog]

Thanks for making me more confused. All kidding aside, one of the things I really am thinking about is what we can expect out of Ernie Sims. He was ok last year. Not that its a fair comparison, but Derrick Brooks had a similar rookie year to Sims in the Tampa 2.

I expect his tackle numbers to go up quite a bit just by being in the right place, and that should also help his big play numbers.

I'm in the other camp with Sims. I'm hoping for his big plays to have an uptick. Sims netted 125 total tackles, but only had 0.5 sack, 1 PD and no INT's. There are plenty of "tackle LB's" for fantasy leagues, but the top-shelf guys net the big plays. Year #2 should help us determine if Sims is a David Thornton or Keith Bulluck.

 

[Jene Bramel]

I think every position is hard, but then, I struggle with rankings in general. I'm a lumper, not a splitter. I think of guys in general tiers and then look for the best upside and lowest floor. The linebackers are always hard because there's a glut of 82-89 tackle guys that comprise a huge LB2 tier and then another glut of 75-82 tackle guys in the LB3-4 tier. Three tackles and a spare big play can make a ten spot difference in the rank lists.

Good luck with the rankings. and :whoosh:

 

[spec1alk]

 

[lions327]

Thanks for making me more confused. All kidding aside, one of the things I really am thinking about is what we can expect out of Ernie Sims. He was ok last year. Not that its a fair comparison, but Derrick Brooks had a similar rookie year to Sims in the Tampa 2.

I expect his tackle numbers to go up quite a bit just by being in the right place, and that should also help his big play numbers.

I'm in the other camp with Sims. I'm hoping for his big plays to have an uptick. Sims netted 125 total tackles, but only had 0.5 sack, 1 PD and no INT's. There are plenty of "tackle LB's" for fantasy leagues, but the top-shelf guys net the big plays. Year #2 should help us determine if Sims is a David Thornton or Keith Bulluck.

When I watched Sims play, I can't even begin to count how many times he seemed to be a half step slow from making a tackle or making some kind of play. Like most rookies, he just didn't understand the defense, and it was magnified being the cover 2. He should have more solo tackles as he gains experience, and more big plays too. The experience he gained last year will allow him to get to places faster because he will know what to do and then his natural instincts will take over. I personally think he gets into the top 20 at worst this year. Long term, I think he has the potential to be a top 10 LB.

 

[lions327]

Continuing with the AFC teams with potential issues at LB that can affect how they are ranked:

Pittsburgh: Will Tomlin play the 3-4 all year? Will he add some parts of the cover 2? Can Farrior keep playing on bad knees, and what would he do in a 4-3? Will Timmins have any fantasy value playing OLB in the 3-4?

Baltimore: Pretty stable with Lewis and Bart Scott returning.

Cincinnati: Can Ahmad Brooks become a 3 down MLB? Will Odell Thurman ever play for the Bengals? Can Hartwell bounce back and play the WLB? Who will play the nickel?

Cleveland: Can Andra Davis bounce back from an off year? Can Wimbley make enough big plays to be an effective fantasy LB? Can D'Qwell Jackson do anything after a disappointing rookie year?

Miami: Can Zach Thomas keep fighting off father time and put up huge numbers? Can Channing Crowder become a factor and show he can replace Thomas down the road?

New England: A tough team to handicap because Belichick moves players around so much, combined with age catching up to Bruschi and Adalius being new.

NY Jets: Can Vilma bounce back from a very disappointing year and make some plays and at least get to the top 20 or so? Can David Harris play at this level and will he play the nickel? Assuming Bryan Thomas is labeled as a LB by MFL, can he make enough plays to be a viable fantasy LB?

Buffalo: Can Posluszny play the middle and make an impact? Can Crowell be one of the rare SLB's who are worth having since he will play the nickel?

Indianapolis: Can Keiaho be a fantasy factor at WLB?

Jacksonville: Can Mike Peterson return to stud status after being hurt last year, and if so, will he stay in the middle?

Houston: Ryans is a beast, no issues here.

Tennessee: Can Tulloch win the MLB spot and if so can he be a fantasy factor playing 2 downs?

Kansas City: How will Donnie Edwards do moving from the 3-4 to the 4-3, and with a not so great line in front of him?

Oakland: Can Thomas Howard improve enough to be an every week starter?

San Diego: Can Shawne Merriman have the monster sack numbers that he did last year? Can Wilhelm fill the huge shoes of Edwards? Can Cooper and/or Phillips make enough plays to be usable in the fantasy world? Who will benefit from the huge tackle numbers no longer taken by Edwards?

Denver: Can D.J. Williams turn into a top 15 or so MLB and pay back the owners who held him for so long?

Among the key issues are Pittsburghs future staying in the 3-4, Brooks and Hartwell, The Browns LB's, the Patriots moving players all over, Poslusnzy, Keiaho, Mike Petersons health and position, Edwards changing teams and schemes, the Chargers with a new coaching staff and losing Edwards, and D.J. Williams.

I agree with what Jene said above about the LB's generally being toguh to rank. But this year seems to have a lot of questions that go beyond the normal ranking issues. A lot of key players switched teams, moved to new position, changed schemes or are coming back from injury.

 

[Ed4252]

I think of guys in general tiers and then look for the best upside and lowest floor. The linebackers are always hard because there's a glut of 82-89 tackle guys that comprise a huge LB2 tier and then another glut of 75-82 tackle guys in the LB3-4 tier.

Who are the LBs you would consider in the huge LB2 tier (ones that will get 82-89 tackle guys)- are you talking solo tacklesI don't think this tier is as large as it seems.

 

[Jene Bramel]

I think of guys in general tiers and then look for the best upside and lowest floor. The linebackers are always hard because there's a glut of 82-89 tackle guys that comprise a huge LB2 tier and then another glut of 75-82 tackle guys in the LB3-4 tier.

Who are the LBs you would consider in the huge LB2 tier (ones that will get 82-89 tackle guys)- are you talking solo tacklesI don't think this tier is as large as it seems.

Yes, I'm referring to solos.In my rankings, everyone from Ernie Sims (14) to EJ Henderson (38) should reach 80 plus solos but could have a rough time reaching 90 solos. Some have in the past and some will again this year, but I wouldn't feel comfortable betting the house on any single player in that tier. For me, that leaves a big tier of potential LB2s. Even a couple of guys I have above Sims (Bart Scott, Posluszny) aren't locks to reach 90 solos.

 

[sholditch]

Jacksonville: Can Mike Peterson return to stud status after being hurt last year, and if so, will he stay in the middle?

This is my main question as this guy got cut in my IDP dynasty league where not many IDPs are kept. Jene, others, any info on his recovery/return to the top?

Kansas City: How will Donnie Edwards do moving from the 3-4 to the 4-3, and with a not so great line in front of him?

Also interested to hear how people think he will do as I kept him over Derrick Johnson. Kinda surprised to see you rank him so low Jene after being his biggest defender on the boards last year. Why the severe downgrade?

 

[Jene Bramel]

Jacksonville: Can Mike Peterson return to stud status after being hurt last year, and if so, will he stay in the middle?

This is my main question as this guy got cut in my IDP dynasty league where not many IDPs are kept. Jene, others, any info on his recovery/return to the top?

Kansas City: How will Donnie Edwards do moving from the 3-4 to the 4-3, and with a not so great line in front of him?

Also interested to hear how people think he will do as I kept him over Derrick Johnson.

Go get Peterson immediately. He carries some long term risk as he may not be in Jacksonville's plans if Durant is a player, but all signs point to him playing in the middle again this year. LB2 at worst, with his usual LB1 upside.Edwards will be okay in Kansas City, but I think he'll struggle to reach 90 solos this year which drops his value significantly from where he was in San Diego. The relatively poor line won't affect Edwards much. If anything, it might put him in position to make a few more tackles in pursuit if Napoleon Harris gets bottled up behind the DTs.

 

[Jestefarean]

Interesting from Profootball Weekly...Donnie Edwards on the Strong Side....now, I know Herms scheme is more balanced, but FF points wise this would seem to diminish his value and raise the value of Derrick Johnson....but honestly it doesn't make sense....is this a mistake?

LB Donnie Edwards’ new deal with the Chiefs is worth close to $13.5 million over three years. After playing on the interior of San Diego’s 3-4 scheme the last five years, he is expected to play on the strong side in Kansas City’s 4-3 alignment, replacing the ineffective Kendrell Bell. Surprisingly, Chiefs general manager Carl Peterson said Bell won’t be released although he carries a base salary of better than $3 million for 2007.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/Featu.../news031207.htm

 

[Zoomanji]

Interesting from Profootball Weekly...Donnie Edwards on the Strong Side....now, I know Herms scheme is more balanced, but FF points wise this would seem to diminish his value and raise the value of Derrick Johnson....but honestly it doesn't make sense....is this a mistake?

LB Donnie Edwards’ new deal with the Chiefs is worth close to $13.5 million over three years. After playing on the interior of San Diego’s 3-4 scheme the last five years, he is expected to play on the strong side in Kansas City’s 4-3 alignment, replacing the ineffective Kendrell Bell. Surprisingly, Chiefs general manager Carl Peterson said Bell won’t be released although he carries a base salary of better than $3 million for 2007.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/Featu.../news031207.htm

Yes, mistake/typo. Lots of posts in this forum about how Herm plays Left and Right side not Strong & Weak.

 

[Jene Bramel]

Interesting from Profootball Weekly...Donnie Edwards on the Strong Side....now, I know Herms scheme is more balanced, but FF points wise this would seem to diminish his value and raise the value of Derrick Johnson....but honestly it doesn't make sense....is this a mistake?

LB Donnie Edwards’ new deal with the Chiefs is worth close to $13.5 million over three years. After playing on the interior of San Diego’s 3-4 scheme the last five years, he is expected to play on the strong side in Kansas City’s 4-3 alignment, replacing the ineffective Kendrell Bell. Surprisingly, Chiefs general manager Carl Peterson said Bell won’t be released although he carries a base salary of better than $3 million for 2007.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/Featu.../news031207.htm

I'm going to continue to swim against the current here and note that I'm fairly certain that Bell was the ROLB while Johnson was the LOLB during the past two seasons. And that I'll be surprised if they put the better pursuit backer on the left side and move the current LOLB to the right side.

 

[Jestefarean]

THanks both of you, thats what I assumed.

 

[ninerfanatic492000]

i'll stand by pro football weekly. that makes the 5th time i've read the same basic info on different sites. i know the whole situation where in herm's defenses its not so much Weak and Strong but just left and right. derrick is gonna be the designated WLB tho and that atleast means to me that he will see 10 or more snaps than donnie as the real WLB. derrick was a decent IDP even in tackle heavy formats before(he was already good in big-play) and this 'edge' could make him a viable LB2 IDP. and i've heard the same thoughts several times on why would u move donnie to SLB? b/c donnie can play SLB and as good as derrick was there donnie can prolly do it as efficiently or better. and christ is there a better LB to stick and cover a TE? there are few safeties that can play pass defense as well as donnie has for the last 10years. why is he gonna have so much trouble sifting thru the extra blockers playin the SLB in a 4-3? he played ILB in a 3-4 for years and sifting thru garbage just fine. Derrick johnson at his and donnie's respected stages of there careers is better suited to be 'the stud' at WLB. to me this signifies the chiefs made this move to put there young stud at his best position. same with the broncos not pursuing a MLB, DJ put in his time at SLB and now will be unleashed.

 

[Jene Bramel]

i'll stand by pro football weekly. that makes the 5th time i've read the same basic info on different sites. i know the whole situation where in herm's defenses its not so much Weak and Strong but just left and right. derrick is gonna be the designated WLB tho and that atleast means to me that he will see 10 or more snaps than donnie as the real WLB. derrick was a decent IDP even in tackle heavy formats before(he was already good in big-play) and this 'edge' could make him a viable LB2 IDP. and i've heard the same thoughts several times on why would u move donnie to SLB? b/c donnie can play SLB and as good as derrick was there donnie can prolly do it as efficiently or better. and christ is there a better LB to stick and cover a TE? there are few safeties that can play pass defense as well as donnie has for the last 10years. why is he gonna have so much trouble sifting thru the extra blockers playin the SLB in a 4-3? he played ILB in a 3-4 for years and sifting thru garbage just fine. Derrick johnson at his and donnie's respected stages of there careers is better suited to be 'the stud' at WLB. to me this signifies the chiefs made this move to put there young stud at his best position. same with the broncos not pursuing a MLB, DJ put in his time at SLB and now will be unleashed.

These questions may all be rhetorical, but I'm going to answer them anyway. Firstly, the note from PFW was from March 12. I have no idea why Rotoworld resurrected it today. You can read the note either way -- Donnie will replace Bell or Donnie will play LOLB -- but both cannot be true.The biggest knock on Donnie Edwards over the past three seasons has been his inability to shed blockers and make plays near the point of attack. Nearly everyone close to the Charger organization and most outside observers, even a Donnie apologist like myself, would argue that Edwards did not "sift through blockers just fine". The Chargers tried to mitigate that by playing him to the weak side of the formation. Edwards also had the benefit of playing behind arguably the best NT in the league. It's my opinion that Edwards will be just as much of a liability as Cato June will be playing the strong side for the majority of his snaps.I'm arguing that you'll see Johnson at LOLB because he's proven himself at that position. I'm arguing that you'll see Edwards at ROLB because he's proven himself as primarily a pursuit and cover backer at this stage of his career. I'd have been much more likely to argue Johnson at ROLB if Kawika Mitchell had stayed behind to move outside.Also, the DJ Williams comparison doesn't work. Williams moved to the middle because he was identified as the best fit for Jim Bates' new defensive scheme. It certainly didn't hurt that Al Wilson wasn't healthy enough to pass a physical, but many of the offseason reports suggest that Bates may have moved Williams anyway. Johnson isn't in a new scheme with a new coordinator. The Chiefs may play a little more Cover-2, but the philosophy will remain generally the same. There's no similar impetus to move him because he's a "stud in waiting".I'm in complete agreement with you that Johnson as an every down ROLB has very good potential. And your argument has merit -- I'm no NFL personnel guy and it's certainly possible that the Chiefs are going to use Edwards on the strong side. If that's confirmed, he moves up my rankings significantly. And I'll be the first one in these threads to take my lumps as I did with Thomas Davis and the WLB/SLB issue in 2005. If you're a Derrick Johnson owner, I hope it works out in his favor.

 

[Jene Bramel]

In my never-ending and highly anal-retentive quest to track down the details of all things scheme related ( ), I bring you the following picture link(s) from the Chiefs June minicamp. I'm really not trying to be argumentative here -- the sooner we get accurate information the better for everyone's rankings/projections/decision-making. Not the best pics, but it looks like Donnie is aligning on the right side.

Minicamp thread from ChiefsCoalition.com

KC Minicamp 1

KC Minicamp 2

 

[msommer]

In my never-ending and highly anal-retentive quest to track down the details of all things scheme related ( ), I bring you the following picture link(s) from the Chiefs June minicamp. I'm really not trying to be argumentative here -- the sooner we get accurate information the better for everyone's rankings/projections/decision-making. Not the best pics, but it looks like Donnie is aligning on the right side.

Minicamp thread from ChiefsCoalition.com

KC Minicamp 1

KC Minicamp 2

I'm glad you can interpret these pictures because I cannot even read the numbers

 

[Finatic]

In my never-ending and highly anal-retentive quest to track down the details of all things scheme related ( ), I bring you the following picture link(s) from the Chiefs June minicamp. I'm really not trying to be argumentative here -- the sooner we get accurate information the better for everyone's rankings/projections/decision-making. Not the best pics, but it looks like Donnie is aligning on the right side.

Minicamp thread from ChiefsCoalition.com

KC Minicamp 1

KC Minicamp 2

I'm glad you can interpret these pictures because I cannot even read the numbers

2nd pick is much clearer than the first.I see Edwards at ROLB and Pollard at SS and Page at FS..............

 

[Anthony Borbely]

In my never-ending and highly anal-retentive quest to track down the details of all things scheme related ( ), I bring you the following picture link(s) from the Chiefs June minicamp. I'm really not trying to be argumentative here -- the sooner we get accurate information the better for everyone's rankings/projections/decision-making. Not the best pics, but it looks like Donnie is aligning on the right side.

Minicamp thread from ChiefsCoalition.com

KC Minicamp 1

KC Minicamp 2

This is the kind of thing that gives us those edges we need to destroy the competition. This is an important situation to monitor. Great stuff.

 

[Jene Bramel]

In my never-ending and highly anal-retentive quest to track down the details of all things scheme related ( ), I bring you the following picture link(s) from the Chiefs June minicamp. I'm really not trying to be argumentative here -- the sooner we get accurate information the better for everyone's rankings/projections/decision-making. Not the best pics, but it looks like Donnie is aligning on the right side.

Minicamp thread from ChiefsCoalition.com

KC Minicamp 1

KC Minicamp 2

I'm glad you can interpret these pictures because I cannot even read the numbers

Again, here.Those who have followed Edwards' career closely will recognize the stance and characteristic long white sleeves. Although I'm pretty sure I can see the 56 and 59 in one of the pics, there are other pics in the group that identify that long-sleeved player as #59.

Again, I'm just trying to help here.

Also, FWIW, Greg Wesley was on the sidelines on the day in question. #25 can be seen in jersey only, which is consistent with beat reports from that weekend. I'm still of the opinion that Page and Pollard are the starters, however.

 

[ninerfanatic492000]

on the same thought then of the chiefs OLB being interchangeable why is angelo crowell being downgraded so much when the bills OLB are much the same way? even if he was stuck in a pure SLB role he performed well there last year(for fantasy football and himself) and poz isn't gonna be the tackling machine that london was.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

on the same thought then of the chiefs OLB being interchangeable why is angelo crowell being downgraded so much when the bills OLB are much the same way? even if he was stuck in a pure SLB role he performed well there last year(for fantasy football and himself) and poz isn't gonna be the tackling machine that london was.

The Bills LBs are not interchangeable. Buffalo doesn't run a left right type defense like the Chiefs do. Crowell is playing SLB and his numbers will not be near as good there as they were when he played WLB. He still could be a LB4 type playing a 3 down SLB role, but that's about it. Posluszny may not be as good as Fletcher, but he should rack up some solid tackle numbers.

 

[Beaumont]

In my never-ending and highly anal-retentive quest to track down the details of all things scheme related ( ), I bring you the following picture link(s) from the Chiefs June minicamp. I'm really not trying to be argumentative here -- the sooner we get accurate information the better for everyone's rankings/projections/decision-making. Not the best pics, but it looks like Donnie is aligning on the right side.

Minicamp thread from ChiefsCoalition.com

KC Minicamp 1

KC Minicamp 2

I'm glad you can interpret these pictures because I cannot even read the numbers

Again, here.Those who have followed Edwards' career closely will recognize the stance and characteristic long white sleeves. Although I'm pretty sure I can see the 56 and 59 in one of the pics, there are other pics in the group that identify that long-sleeved player as #59.

Again, I'm just trying to help here.

Also, FWIW, Greg Wesley was on the sidelines on the day in question. #25 can be seen in jersey only, which is consistent with beat reports from that weekend. I'm still of the opinion that Page and Pollard are the starters, however.

Herm on Edwards: http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2007/07/28/qa...m_edwards__728/Q: How has he looked today compared to the guy you saw five or six years ago?

EDWARDS: “He’s still athletic. He can still move. That’s what he is; he’s that type of linebacker. I think he’s probably more comfortable in this type of defense, a 4-3 rather than a 3-4 where he’s a “Will” linebacker and is covered up and can run from sideline to sideline. He’s very, very good in pass coverage. He has great instincts in pass coverage.

“In this defense the “Will” linebacker is a glorified strong safety. That’s how we play him and in Tampa we did it with Derrick Brooks. When you look at all the “Will” linebackers in this defense, whether they’re with Tony (Dungy) or Lovie (Smith), they’re basically a strong safety. He has to have great range and great cover skills and be a great tackler in the open field. He’s a guy who doesn’t come out of the game on third down.”

 

[Weiner Dog]

In my never-ending and highly anal-retentive quest to track down the details of all things scheme related ( ), I bring you the following picture link(s) from the Chiefs June minicamp. I'm really not trying to be argumentative here -- the sooner we get accurate information the better for everyone's rankings/projections/decision-making. Not the best pics, but it looks like Donnie is aligning on the right side.

Minicamp thread from ChiefsCoalition.com

KC Minicamp 1

KC Minicamp 2

I'm glad you can interpret these pictures because I cannot even read the numbers

Again, here.Those who have followed Edwards' career closely will recognize the stance and characteristic long white sleeves. Although I'm pretty sure I can see the 56 and 59 in one of the pics, there are other pics in the group that identify that long-sleeved player as #59.

Again, I'm just trying to help here.

Also, FWIW, Greg Wesley was on the sidelines on the day in question. #25 can be seen in jersey only, which is consistent with beat reports from that weekend. I'm still of the opinion that Page and Pollard are the starters, however.

Herm on Edwards: http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2007/07/28/qa...m_edwards__728/Q: How has he looked today compared to the guy you saw five or six years ago?

EDWARDS: “He’s still athletic. He can still move. That’s what he is; he’s that type of linebacker. I think he’s probably more comfortable in this type of defense, a 4-3 rather than a 3-4 where he’s a “Will” linebacker and is covered up and can run from sideline to sideline. He’s very, very good in pass coverage. He has great instincts in pass coverage.

“In this defense the “Will” linebacker is a glorified strong safety. That’s how we play him and in Tampa we did it with Derrick Brooks. When you look at all the “Will” linebackers in this defense, whether they’re with Tony (Dungy) or Lovie (Smith), they’re basically a strong safety. He has to have great range and great cover skills and be a great tackler in the open field. He’s a guy who doesn’t come out of the game on third down.”

Well...that about sums it up. Great find, Beaumont.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

In my never-ending and highly anal-retentive quest to track down the details of all things scheme related ( ), I bring you the following picture link(s) from the Chiefs June minicamp. I'm really not trying to be argumentative here -- the sooner we get accurate information the better for everyone's rankings/projections/decision-making. Not the best pics, but it looks like Donnie is aligning on the right side.

Minicamp thread from ChiefsCoalition.com

KC Minicamp 1

KC Minicamp 2

I'm glad you can interpret these pictures because I cannot even read the numbers

Again, here.Those who have followed Edwards' career closely will recognize the stance and characteristic long white sleeves. Although I'm pretty sure I can see the 56 and 59 in one of the pics, there are other pics in the group that identify that long-sleeved player as #59.

Again, I'm just trying to help here.

Also, FWIW, Greg Wesley was on the sidelines on the day in question. #25 can be seen in jersey only, which is consistent with beat reports from that weekend. I'm still of the opinion that Page and Pollard are the starters, however.

Herm on Edwards: http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2007/07/28/qa...m_edwards__728/Q: How has he looked today compared to the guy you saw five or six years ago?

EDWARDS: “He’s still athletic. He can still move. That’s what he is; he’s that type of linebacker. I think he’s probably more comfortable in this type of defense, a 4-3 rather than a 3-4 where he’s a “Will” linebacker and is covered up and can run from sideline to sideline. He’s very, very good in pass coverage. He has great instincts in pass coverage.

“In this defense the “Will” linebacker is a glorified strong safety. That’s how we play him and in Tampa we did it with Derrick Brooks. When you look at all the “Will” linebackers in this defense, whether they’re with Tony (Dungy) or Lovie (Smith), they’re basically a strong safety. He has to have great range and great cover skills and be a great tackler in the open field. He’s a guy who doesn’t come out of the game on third down.”

Well...that about sums it up. Great find, Beaumont.

Many of us knew he would play in space on the weak side...but this is great stuff you posted. Now everyone knows for sure and can stop speculating.

 

[ninerfanatic492000]

from IDPblitz team by team profiles:

Angelo Crowell - I'm unsure why Crowell isn't getting the love this year. He's consistently ranked outside the Top 40 LBs. Maybe it's because of the fractured leg that cost him 5 games (he's fully recovered). Maybe it's because he's moving to SLB, although strongside and weakside don't matter as much in the Bills' scheme. While Crowell emerged in 2005 and seemed to regress in '06, he actually averaged the same tackles per game and averaged more sacks and INTs. So let's guess that his shortened season skewed his stats and the 2007 forecasts, and his move to SLB is scaring off IDP forecasters. Take advantage by drafting him in a value position.

 

[ninerfanatic492000]

why do i put so much faith in IDP blitz, in june 06 there quote on demeco ryans was this-looks like a mini ray lewis on crack, he'll be a top 10IDP for years to come.

that was in freak'n june, i was one of the lucky ones to draft him for dynasty over AJ Hawk while the Hawk owners laughed there ###'s off.

for those who reply we can't view that info, the IDP team profiles are free-just register a login name

 

[Anthony Borbely]

why do i put so much faith in IDP blitz, in june 06 there quote on demeco ryans was this-looks like a mini ray lewis on crack, he'll be a top 10IDP for years to come. that was in freak'n june, i was one of the lucky ones to draft him for dynasty over AJ Hawk while the Hawk owners laughed there ###'s off.for those who reply we can't view that info, the IDP team profiles are free-just register a login name

One good pick is too small of a sample to say if they are good or not, regardless of the site.

 

[ninerfanatic492000]

christ, i was using it as 'a' example(a biggie at that) and not 'the only' example from the site. in a short time i've noticed that deffering opionions that don't originate from this site get shot down fairly quickly. as if nobody else seems to have any merit(as user or site).

 

[Jene Bramel]

christ, i was using it as 'a' example(a biggie at that) and not 'the only' example from the site. in a short time i've noticed that deffering opionions that don't originate from this site get shot down fairly quickly. as if nobody else seems to have any merit(as user or site).

Sorry you feel that way NF. While we have a few abrasive posters, and I certainly wouldn't put Tony in that category, I think most would agree that this forum is very tolerant of the opinion of others. The vets will be vocal with dissenting opinions, but I believe it's extremely rare that anyone's is told that their opinions have no merit. I don't read any post in this thread to say that another site's opinions have no merit.I know I've been pretty vocal with a contrary opinion in our back and forth about the Donnie Edwards issue, but I don't believe my posts were phrased in such a way to disparage your or anyone else's opinion. I don't follow the content of other sites very closely as there are so many outlets that now do IDP content. If another site has helped improve your team, . I'm sure many of our regular posters use other sites for IDP information as well ( ). Still, I'll put our collective forum minds up against anyone else's in the industry for its depth and breadth of content and uncontentious discussion.

 

[Jene Bramel]

from IDPblitz team by team profiles:Angelo Crowell - I'm unsure why Crowell isn't getting the love this year. He's consistently ranked outside the Top 40 LBs. Maybe it's because of the fractured leg that cost him 5 games (he's fully recovered). Maybe it's because he's moving to SLB, although strongside and weakside don't matter as much in the Bills' scheme. While Crowell emerged in 2005 and seemed to regress in '06, he actually averaged the same tackles per game and averaged more sacks and INTs. So let's guess that his shortened season skewed his stats and the 2007 forecasts, and his move to SLB is scaring off IDP forecasters. Take advantage by drafting him in a value position.

I'll confess that I go back and forth on Crowell on a seemingly every day basis. I was extremely high on him earlier this offseason, even suggesting that he could finish as the number one overall LB when it appeared he could take over for Fletcher in the middle. With Poz there and Crowell on the left/strong side, I dropped him pretty dramatically into the big LB3-4 tier, based on last year's history of opposing offenses tending to run at the weak side (and Keith Ellison) while Spikes was out, making Crowell into the equivalent of the weak side backer fairly often. That's probably where the comment about the strongside/weakside designations not mattering as much as in other schemes comes from in the content you quoted from IDP Blitz. I wrote the downside opinion on him a couple of weeks ago for our IDP faceoff series and found myself more and more conflicted as I was writing it.I like what I'm reading about Keith Ellison this year and I agree that Crowell has proven himself a capable tackler and an above-average big play option for a fairly vanilla scheme like the Tampa-2. I'm still a little bugged about Crowell's durability on the strong side and believe his upside to be limited to LB3 numbers, but I think #47 (which is where I currently have him) is probably too harsh. It's certainly dragging down our consensus ranking of Crowell as the 34th overall backer.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

from IDPblitz team by team profiles:Angelo Crowell - I'm unsure why Crowell isn't getting the love this year. He's consistently ranked outside the Top 40 LBs. Maybe it's because of the fractured leg that cost him 5 games (he's fully recovered). Maybe it's because he's moving to SLB, although strongside and weakside don't matter as much in the Bills' scheme. While Crowell emerged in 2005 and seemed to regress in '06, he actually averaged the same tackles per game and averaged more sacks and INTs. So let's guess that his shortened season skewed his stats and the 2007 forecasts, and his move to SLB is scaring off IDP forecasters. Take advantage by drafting him in a value position.

I'll confess that I go back and forth on Crowell on a seemingly every day basis. I was extremely high on him earlier this offseason, even suggesting that he could finish as the number one overall LB when it appeared he could take over for Fletcher in the middle. With Poz there and Crowell on the left/strong side, I dropped him pretty dramatically into the big LB3-4 tier, based on last year's history of opposing offenses tending to run at the weak side (and Keith Ellison) while Spikes was out, making Crowell into the equivalent of the weak side backer fairly often. That's probably where the comment about the strongside/weakside designations not mattering as much as in other schemes comes from in the content you quoted from IDP Blitz. I wrote the downside opinion on him a couple of weeks ago for our IDP faceoff series and found myself more and more conflicted as I was writing it.I like what I'm reading about Keith Ellison this year and I agree that Crowell has proven himself a capable tackler and an above-average big play option for a fairly vanilla scheme like the Tampa-2. I'm still a little bugged about Crowell's durability on the strong side and believe his upside to be limited to LB3 numbers, but I think #47 (which is where I currently have him) is probably too harsh. It's certainly dragging down our consensus ranking of Crowell as the 34th overall backer.

I have Crowell 38th in redraft right now, and can't justify him being about a high level LB4 right now. I have him slightly higher in dynasty (32nd) and sometimes am tempted to move him a little higher based on how well he played on the weak side...and in the hope that he moves there eventually. He is definitely one to keep a close eye on, especially in dynasty leagues. I will be watching the Buffalo LBs closely all season. But as long as he is playing SLB, even if it's 3 downs, he is limited in my opinion. Crowell might be a good buy low LB during the season for dynasty league players. He is the definition of what to look for in dynasty leagues and how important it can be to be a forward thinker in dynasty leagues.

 

[Chaos Commish]

christ, i was using it as 'a' example(a biggie at that) and not 'the only' example from the site. in a short time i've noticed that deffering opionions that don't originate from this site get shot down fairly quickly. as if nobody else seems to have any merit(as user or site).

Wow. This was uncalled for and everyone remains so civil here. You weren't using one example, or at lease you didn't say so. You simply said:

why do i put so much faith in IDP blitz, in june 06 there quote on demeco ryans was

Anthony merely pointed out one call is not a big enough sample and it isn't. I'm not subscribing here at the moment because I procrastinated all summer and then a couple staffers joined a redraft with me. In fairness I don't want access to their projections until after our draft. The IDP rankings expert from another site I use also joined the same redraft, so I'm not reading him this summer either. I went to check out IDP Blitz. Signed up for the free stuff. They haven't begun to update depth charts from last season. So what they are putting out for free is very bad information. Someone scanning those charts for players could make a terrible mistake. They should take those down if they don't want to do the research and publish updates. Yahoo is way ahead of them.They do list some rankings for free under IDP Auction Values. The great thing about auction values is there's no fussing with ADP analysis... these are straight rankings. They say they use a balanced scoring system. I'm not sure what that means since they don't post the scoring rulesAt LB:1. DeMeco Ryans2. Zach Thomas3. Antonio PierceAnd Bramel should appreciate the cluster but maybe not the names...4-7 are a 4 way tie WareHawkFletcher-BakerBullock8 - 10 also tiedPetersonWitherspoonUrlacherInteresting values:12 Derrick Johnson 18 Donnie Edwards20 Karlos Dansby22 Kirk Morrison

 

[Chaos Commish]

Btw Anthony, I agree with the premise in this thread. I PMd as much to Jene long before I read this. I have two IDP leagues drafting soon. Over the past few years, I input my own basic projections into handy draft software and looked at how things fell in the two different systems feeling good about who ADPs suggested I could get.

This year is a mindbender in comparison.

Also, since Crowell was part of this conversation, Blitz has him in a tier of 12 equal value LBs between 24 and 35. These are $2 LBs with the cap he used, and I think he should have used a bigger bank to break some of this up, but maybe not.