2008 Rookie LB Debate (1 Viewer)

[Mr. Peterson]

Every league I have seen have had these three guys very close and the order switched around a bit. There is no one LB that is standing out in front of the other. Rivers seems to be going much earlier than these three, but these guys could represent great value as well.

I remember two years ago it was this way with Ryans and McIntosh. We all know which one was the better pick now, but at the time I saw people switching back and forth.

It looks like Dizon and Lofton are both going to be playing MLB for thier teams. Lofton went earlier but I have heard knocks about his covering skills. Any time a player is taken by Detroit I start to worry becuase they make bad draft choices. And I'm not sure how to rank LB's in the 3-4 but Mayo was a top 10 pick in the draft so that has to count for something.

So who is going to be this years LB that turns out to be an IDP stud?

Oh, and I decided to make this a poll at the last second.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Lofton...Dizon......MayoEdit: Although, PFW did have this to say about Mayo...

ILB Mayo expected to see rookie minutes immediatelyCoach Bill Belichick doesn’t like to play rookie linebackers. Believing that it takes a couple of years to learn the complexities of the position, he opts to let them learn on the practice field and watch from the sideline during games. Expect Belichick to make an exception with first-round pick Jerod Mayo. According to one team insider, Mayo is an odds-on favorite to win one of the two starting ILB jobs by the season opener. There was a school of thought that the 242-pound Mayo would flip outside and 270-pound Adalius Thomas would shift inside, considering that each has experience at both positions, but we hear that won’t be happening. For one thing, Thomas was far more effective a season ago when working on the edge. For another, the Pats see inside linebacker as Mayo’s long-term position, and to have him learn outside responsibilities, then throw him the ILB playbook a year or two later would stunt his development. That being said, we hear the Pats want him to gain about 15 pounds, even if it’s detrimental to his speed.

They also report this...

We hear the Falcons are preparing their defense to play a lot of nickel coverage this year, in part because of the lack of faith they have in the defensive line’s ability to pressure the quarterback.

 

[Mr. Peterson]

Lofton...Dizon.........Mayo

So far you're the only one who voted for Lofton (just assuming cause he only has one vote so far). Do you have any reasons for putting Lofton ahead of Dizon? And Bloom, where did you go? I was hoping to hear what you had to say.

 

[MAC_32]

Short term - Dizon

Long term - Lofton

Mayo's the best talent but his situation pales in comparison, if Dizon and Lofton went 1-2 and I needed an LB he'd be my choice. Short term Rivers may put up better numbers, but I just don't think he's that good.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Lofton...Dizon.........Mayo

So far you're the only one who voted for Lofton (just assuming cause he only has one vote so far). Do you have any reasons for putting Lofton ahead of Dizon?

I have to admit that I play hunches a lot more than just about anyone I know. With that philosophy I seem to either win big or lose big. So take that for what it's worth.But Lofton's production in college compounded with him lining up where Brooking was screams big numbers to me. Dizon just seems a bit too small for me. I don't know how well he'll hold up even if he gets the job.

 

[Zoomanji]

Another Lofton supporter as a better long-term pick. Short term could be Dizon but again the size issue and the idea that Detroit screw up every pick it makes, although I trust Marinelli's assessment of defensive talent.

I like what he could do replacing Brooking.

I like Dizon more than Mayo's situation and probably Rivers more as well.

 

[Rozelle]

I voted Dizon. I agree with Mr. Peterson's assesment "Any time a player is taken by Detroit I start to worry because they make bad draft choices" Hard to discount this.

The size thing, or lack-there-of with Dizon, Gosh ... how many times have we heard this in the past and it was proved wrong. I wouldn't get caught up in the size thing with Dizon. He's the same size, if not slightly bigger than Ernie Sims. Like Lofton, his coverage ability is what I'd be concerened with.

 

[Chachi]

I think this is a bit unfair to Meyo to be in this category. If you take a look at the dynasty rankings the first 11 are inside linebackers and Briggs comes in as the first OLB at #12.

If I was asked which LB out of these 3 has the best chance of being top 25, I'd pick Meyo. My guess is all 3 will probaly break the top 25.

Now if you're asked Which could be top 5, then Meyo would be eliminated from the conversation. I personally would go Lofton if i was looking for a possible top 5 guy.

 

[graywolf247]

If you had asked me which one I thought was the most talented or gifted athlete, I would have said Mayo HANDS down! That doesn't necessarily translate to Fantasy scoring!!!

For fantasy production this year, I think Lofton will see the most time on the field and have the best chance to score accordingly. Mayo's offense will limit him and the defense will not be showcasing him either. Dizon may be another "Mike Singletary" type MLB and their struggles on offense may increase his opportuinities to perform, but I don't see that exceeding what Lofton's going to get from the PATHETIC Atlanta offense. That being said, it appears to me they will line up Lofton, Dizon and Mayo last.

But that's only for IDP purpooses!!!

 

[JOBOOZOSO]

i would pick Rivers as #1

but of the 3 choices you gave me, i took Lofton

 

[Jene Bramel]

I'm still of the mind that Mayo is being overlooked, if not underrated, by the IDP masses. The situation isn't as bad as it may appear.

Mr. Peterson, if you haven't already, you should do a search (or just flip through the last three pages of the forum) for each of these names. There's been a lot of good discussion on these guys. Be interesting to see how this poll comes out since these guys have now had some time to soak and go through a minicamp.

For me, it's...

Mayo

Lofton

Dizon

Rivers

Gooden

Bell

Connor

...and it's hard to keep Gooden behind Dizon and Rivers in the long term.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

I'm still of the mind that Mayo is being overlooked, if not underrated, by the IDP masses. The situation isn't as bad as it may appear.Mr. Peterson, if you haven't already, you should do a search (or just flip through the last three pages of the forum) for each of these names. There's been a lot of good discussion on these guys. Be interesting to see how this poll comes out since these guys have now had some time to soak and go through a minicamp.For me, it's...MayoLoftonDizonRiversGoodenBellConnor...and it's hard to keep Gooden behind Dizon and Rivers in the long term.

JB,How much does your view of Gooden change if RayRay signs an extension?

 

[Rozelle]

I liked Mayo early, but the more I researched the less I liked. Doesn't his multiple knee injuries concern anyone?

 

[Wild Turkies]

I don't know that Connor should make anyones list. I do think that Pittsburgh can turn Bruce Davis into an effecient IDP OLB.

 

[Jene Bramel]

I'm still of the mind that Mayo is being overlooked, if not underrated, by the IDP masses. The situation isn't as bad as it may appear.Mr. Peterson, if you haven't already, you should do a search (or just flip through the last three pages of the forum) for each of these names. There's been a lot of good discussion on these guys. Be interesting to see how this poll comes out since these guys have now had some time to soak and go through a minicamp.For me, it's...MayoLoftonDizonRiversGoodenBellConnor...and it's hard to keep Gooden behind Dizon and Rivers in the long term.

JB,How much does your view of Gooden change if RayRay signs an extension?

Since I favor a 1-1.5 year window for rookie/dynasty IDP rankings, it's already factored in a bit. Were I convinced that the Ravens won't cave and sign a 34 year old who has had hand, ankle, tricep, back, knee and hamstring problems over the past three seasons and has finished a full 16 game season just once in the past six years, I'd probably have him in the top three.The Ravens have publicly said that they'll aggressively pursue Lewis this offseason -- after refusing him extensions time and again in recent years -- then they draft Gooden in the 3rd round. Lewis says he seems himself as a Raven for life, but then says business is business. It's going to be very interesting to see what happens with him. I think he gets paid by the Ravens if he's healthy and productive all year long, otherwise he's moving on.I think the Ravens could've found an OLB type to replace their other contract year backer (Bart Scott) if that's what the long term plan was. But Scott will come cheaper at a more favorable age (he'll be 29 just before the 2009 season). Short of grabbing a guy to groom in 2007, I think the Ravens have been preparing for life without Lewis for three years now. If Lewis signs the extension, Gooden's ranking becomes dependent on where your team is headed. Can you wait on him like a Barrett Ruud? Or do you need the lower ceiling vet/rookie with more immediate production?

 

[Jene Bramel]

I don't know that Connor should make anyones list. I do think that Pittsburgh can turn Bruce Davis into an effecient IDP OLB.

I like Davis, too, but it's hard to see him getting many snaps with both Harrison and Woodley signed though 2009. Even then, Harrison may be one of the few OLBs they re-sign rather than let walk.

 

[onionsack]

I think this is a bit unfair to Meyo to be in this category. If you take a look at the dynasty rankings the first 11 are inside linebackers and Briggs comes in as the first OLB at #12. If I was asked which LB out of these 3 has the best chance of being top 25, I'd pick Meyo. My guess is all 3 will probaly break the top 25.Now if you're asked Which could be top 5, then Meyo would be eliminated from the conversation. I personally would go Lofton if i was looking for a possible top 5 guy.

Mayo will be playing on the inside, albeit in a 3-4. It's going to be interesting to see how these guys develop...I've gotten Mayo in a couple of drafts, after Lofton, Dizon and Rivers had gone, and I'm happy with the pick. I just think he's the greatest overall talent of the bunch, and that almost always trumps scheme for me. Rivers was curiously unproductive in college (at least from a numbers standpoint) and I tend to think he'll be a better NFL player than fantasy player at the pro level. Both Lofton and Dizon should be tackle machines for their respective teams. Dizon in particular really reminds me of Tatupu: a guy I thought was a reach in the draft, and who I'd totally underestimated as being too small and lacking in tools for the job. Instincts, aggression and savvy go a long way at the Mike spot. I won't be at all surprised if he has the greatest fantasy impact of the bunch.

 

[Wild Turkies]

"" I think the Ravens could've found an OLB type to replace their other contract year backer (Bart Scott) if that's what the long term plan was. But Scott will come cheaper at a more favorable age (he'll be 29 just before the 2009 season). Short of grabbing a guy to groom in 2007, I think the Ravens have been preparing for life without Lewis for three years now. ""

I'm new to the forums and not sure how to do the quotes. If that looks wierd be patient, I'm learning.....

Off thread topic here, sorry, any chance that Bart Scott will be returning to his 1 year wonder form and reward us owners who paid his overpriced salary all year last year?

On thread topic, would you rather have Geno Hayes or Xavier Adibi?

WT

 

[Jene Bramel]

"" I think the Ravens could've found an OLB type to replace their other contract year backer (Bart Scott) if that's what the long term plan was. But Scott will come cheaper at a more favorable age (he'll be 29 just before the 2009 season). Short of grabbing a guy to groom in 2007, I think the Ravens have been preparing for life without Lewis for three years now. ""I'm new to the forums and not sure how to do the quotes. If that looks wierd be patient, I'm learning.....Off thread topic here, sorry, any chance that Bart Scott will be returning to his 1 year wonder form and reward us owners who paid his overpriced salary all year last year?On thread topic, would you rather have Geno Hayes or Xavier Adibi?WT

If you click REPLY under the post you want quoted, that post will be entered in your reply box in HTML quote brackets. You can delete from the quoted post if you like from there.Our staff IDP rankings can be found here (along with pull down menus for redraft and dynasty rankings). There was a note in a Buc beat writer's blog this week that hinted that the team was planning to move Cato June over to the weak side, which would limit Hayes' upside significantly. That potential concern, plus the fact that Adibi is a better all-around talent, would make Adibi the better target for me.

 

[Bizkiteer]

I think in the long run...Meyo will be the best, but will be thrid in FF scoring for the poll. I think for immediate return...Lofton and Dizon will better and similar. Lofton being better long term than Dizon. How's that for confusing?

 

[The Man With No Name]

Voted Lofton, for this year.

But I am real happy to have Mayo and Gooden on my 14 team Dynasty squad.

 

[jetmonkey]

Why has Conner fallen from everyone's radar?

 

[J Giles Band]

Why has Conner fallen from everyone's radar?

Probably because there is this Beason guy ahead of him on the depth chart at MLB. And though stranger things have happened, I don't think anyone actually thinks the Panthers will move Beason out of the middle to make room for Connor in the near future.

 

[Rozelle]

Why has Conner fallen from everyone's radar?

Probably because there is this Beason guy ahead of him on the depth chart at MLB. And though stranger things have happened, I don't think anyone actually thinks the Panthers will move Beason out of the middle to make room for Connor in the near future.

Fear he is nothing more than 2-down LB.

 

[SF409ers]

...and it's hard to keep Gooden behind Dizon and Rivers in the long term.

Hey all, forum newb here.I agree with this. I would rank them long term as follows:

Lofton

Mayo

Gooden

Dizon

Rivers

Adibi / Connor

In several rookie drafts I have seen / participated in thus far Lofton and Dizon seem to be for the most part interchangeable at 1/2 with Rivers and Mayo interchangeable at 3/4. I just got Mayo as the 4th LB off the board at 2.03 in my latest 16 team draft and am very happy about it. I have seen Gooden falling way down the board and IMO he looks to be the best "value" LB of the draft so far.

 

[redman]

Why has Conner fallen from everyone's radar?

Probably because there is this Beason guy ahead of him on the depth chart at MLB. And though stranger things have happened, I don't think anyone actually thinks the Panthers will move Beason out of the middle to make room for Connor in the near future.

Fear he is nothing more than 2-down LB.

The question I have (as a hopeful/needful Connor drafter) is whether Connor is one of the three best LB's. If he is, then you'd think that the Panthers would like to get him on the field, and might consider moving Beason to the Will to enable that given that Connor is not capable of playing outside. Does this seem like a plausible scenario?

 

[bcr8f]

I voted Dizon. I agree with Mr. Peterson's assesment "Any time a player is taken by Detroit I start to worry because they make bad draft choices" Hard to discount this.

The size thing, or lack-there-of with Dizon, Gosh ... how many times have we heard this in the past and it was proved wrong. I wouldn't get caught up in the size thing with Dizon. He's the same size, if not slightly bigger than Ernie Sims. Like Lofton, his coverage ability is what I'd be concerened with.

Detroit surprised me this year with their draft. Maybe Millen's getting better at this.

 

[J Giles Band]

Why has Conner fallen from everyone's radar?

Probably because there is this Beason guy ahead of him on the depth chart at MLB. And though stranger things have happened, I don't think anyone actually thinks the Panthers will move Beason out of the middle to make room for Connor in the near future.

Fear he is nothing more than 2-down LB.

The question I have (as a hopeful/needful Connor drafter) is whether Connor is one of the three best LB's. If he is, then you'd think that the Panthers would like to get him on the field, and might consider moving Beason to the Will to enable that given that Connor is not capable of playing outside. Does this seem like a plausible scenario?

Living in Charlotte, you never know with the Panthers. Plausible, yes. Likely, no. I agree if Connor turns out to be one of their 3 best LB's they will find a way to get him on the field at some point. That said, I'm not sure I would agree that Connor is incapable of playing outside. He played outside at Penn State before he moved to the middle.

Of the 3 possible scenarios (moving Beason outside, moving Connor outside, or Connor backing up Beason MLB) I would think Beason moving outside the least likely. Short term my bet is Connor backs up Beason at MLB. If Connor performs well in that role (and/or injuries strike), I could see the Panthers trying him outside.

 

[Dirty Hairy]

I thought Detroit's defensive scheme funnelled the play to the WLB - Sims. Because of this, I would put Dizon last. Willis proved a 3-4 scheme can be overcome and with the age of the other NEP LBs, I think Mayo comes close to the same potential as Lofton.

 

[awesomeness]

I thought Detroit's defensive scheme funnelled the play to the WLB - Sims. Because of this, I would put Dizon last. Willis proved a 3-4 scheme can be overcome and with the age of the other NEP LBs, I think Mayo comes close to the same potential as Lofton.

Paris Lenon, who is an average LB at best, put up good numbers last year as the MLB for Detroit finishing in the top 20 for LBs in tackle heavy scoring systems last year. Dizon is definitely more skilled than him, and the Detroit defense should be on the field even more than last year as their starting RB is either a 3rd round rookie, or tatum bell :shivers:

 

[bcr8f]

Why has Conner fallen from everyone's radar?

Probably because there is this Beason guy ahead of him on the depth chart at MLB. And though stranger things have happened, I don't think anyone actually thinks the Panthers will move Beason out of the middle to make room for Connor in the near future.

If that's true why did they draft him so high? Why not go after an OLB instead?

 

[Jene Bramel]

I thought Detroit's defensive scheme funnelled the play to the WLB - Sims. Because of this, I would put Dizon last. Willis proved a 3-4 scheme can be overcome and with the age of the other NEP LBs, I think Mayo comes close to the same potential as Lofton.

You're correct. The WLB in Tampa-2 defenses has more opportunity than 4-3 teams that use less Cover-2 coverage. But that doesn't necessarily mean that the MLB has no value. Barrett Ruud, Brian Urlacher, Shelton Quarles, Paul Posluszny, Gary Brackett, etal have had solid value in Tampa-2 schemes in past seasons. The Tampa-2 may depress the MLB value very slightly, but talented players can still finish in the top ten. It's more that the WLB is an important position, has more opportunity and requires a pretty good player to handle the responsibility.Dizon is athletic, but I'm withholding judgment on him as a potential IDP stud until he proves he can get off blocks behind a pretty average DT group and show he can cover well enough to take advantage of the tackle opportunity in the middle zones.

 

[J Giles Band]

Why has Conner fallen from everyone's radar?

Probably because there is this Beason guy ahead of him on the depth chart at MLB. And though stranger things have happened, I don't think anyone actually thinks the Panthers will move Beason out of the middle to make room for Connor in the near future.

If that's true why did they draft him so high? Why not go after an OLB instead?

Value.Some had Connor with a 1st round projection. That said, it was no surprise he slipped (much like Poz) due to concerns about his speed & athletic ability.Not to mention, as I pointed out in a previous post, Connor initially played outside at Penn State and I don't think he is viewed soley as a MLB.I'm not saying moving Beason won't happen... I just don't think it's the most likely scenario.

 

[Can'tJukeThis]

Why has Conner fallen from everyone's radar?

Probably because there is this Beason guy ahead of him on the depth chart at MLB. And though stranger things have happened, I don't think anyone actually thinks the Panthers will move Beason out of the middle to make room for Connor in the near future.

If that's true why did they draft him so high? Why not go after an OLB instead?

Value.Some had Connor with a 1st round projection. That said, it was no surprise he slipped (much like Poz) due to concerns about his speed & athletic ability.Not to mention, as I pointed out in a previous post, Connor initially played outside at Penn State and I don't think he is viewed soley as a MLB.I'm not saying moving Beason won't happen... I just don't think it's the most likely scenario.

John Fox has already told Connor that he needs to also learn the Weak Side postion. Look at it on the Panthers home page, under the Connors Diary.

 

[Lash]

yes situation may not be the best but talent keeps your job

so go with Mayo

in dynasties i want the guy that i know the team won't be drafting a competitor for his spot in 2 years

 

[Rozelle]

No one seems to be concerned about Mayo's durability.

The fact New England wasn't helps alleviate some concern, thats for sure, but with his history of injury problems, one has to wonder if he can survive a full season.

Injury Report

2005: Did not play vs. Mississippi (10/01) with a right knee sprain...Sat out the final four contests vs. Notre Dame (11/05), Memphis (11/12), Vanderbilt (11/19) and Kentucky (11/26) to undergo right knee lateral collateral ligament surgery.

2006: Missed the final two weeks of August camp with a high ankle sprain...Sat out a good portion of the Georgia clash (10/07) with a left knee sprain...Suffered a hand contusion vs. Arkansas (11/11)...Re-injured his knee vs. Vanderbilt (11/18), sitting out the following week vs. Kentucky (11/25).

2007: Was limited in spring camp after undergoing left knee arthroscopic surgery after the Outback Bowl (1/01/07)...Left the Kentucky contest twice (11/24) with leg cramps...Did not participate in the bench press at the Combine due to a pectoral strain.

 

[bcr8f]

yes situation may not be the best but talent keeps your jobso go with Mayoin dynasties i want the guy that i know the team won't be drafting a competitor for his spot in 2 years

Belichick. That's why I wouldn't even consider drafting him.

 

[bcr8f]

I liked Lofton and Rivers last year. I didn't like Dizon or even Mayo.

 

[KellysHeroes]

I liked Lofton and Rivers last year. I didn't like Dizon or even Mayo.

did u watch Mayo play?