2011 NFL DRAFT 3 biggest flops and 3 best values (1 Viewer)

[Blackjacks]

From mocks you are seeing now who would you like your team team to nab (regardless of needs) and who do you want your team to stay away from? skill players only

great values: Ryan Mallett Arkansas qb, Christian Ponder Florida St. qb and Dion Lewis Pitt rb

If Mallett last til the 2nd round you are getting the most skilled QB in this year with excellent value. He has a cannon for an arm and great height for his position. He is going to be the lucky one by probably getting drafted by a winning team if he goes in the late first instead of to a rebuilding team where he will get thrown in the fire. I really think a team will get him in the 2nd and let him sit for a year or two and he could be a star. By far, the most talent qb coming out this year.

Christian Ponder is for my 2 cents, the most pro ready qb coming out this year. He could go to a team and be a nice backup from day one and if ever thrown in the fire could handle himself nicely. He doesn't have the arm strength as some other qb's or the mobility but he has a nice combination of all the little things you need. If he is the fourth or fifth qb takent in this draft someone will be getting a steal. I think Christian should be a early 2nd round pick and he is being projected as a late 3rd or a fourth.......steal

Dion Lewis, I know he might be a little smaller but everytime I saw this kid he had the WOW factor. He might not be a great starter in the league but I think he could be a very nice 2nd back (complimentary) this year. I would love my Rams to draft him to fill in for S. Jackson, he would be a perfect change of pace and he could be had in the 5th round or so. This is great value for a player with his talent.

3 biggest flops: Cam Newton, Daniel Thomas and Jonathon Baldwin

First off Cam Newton. Why is everyone so high on this guy? Character problems, loose mechanics, not overly accurate never played in a pro system and teams are projecting him as a top 10 pick??????? This is the kind of selection that keeps bad teams bad. He will not be ready to go when his number is called but have to play to warrant his contract. Stay far far away teams. He has nothing good to offer in the NFL.

Daniel Thomas played in a weak conference (defensively) and never looked dominant. He didn't look like a burner or that powerful. If Thomas is a 2nd round pick I think a team would be taking him very prematurely. A player of his caliber should be taken in about the 4th or fifth. I would much rather have 7 ot 8 backs coming out this year than Thomas.

And then we have Jonathon Baldwin......he is tall and he is big......I will give him that. Can he run good routes? Does he have good hands? Is he a good possession wr? These things are all HUGE question marks because of never having a good QB in college and never playing in a good offense to highlight a wr. I think he is being drafted strictly on potential and I wouldn't want my team to waste that early of a pick of a project.

What are your thoughts???????

 

[super sleeper]

Just curious if you have seen Pitt play, since you mention Lewis and Baldwin?

Baldwin definitely has the wow factor you mention, and his stats are great considering the level of QB play, so I don't understand the "potential" comment. As for Lewis, I would disagree also. He was great his freshman year, but this past season he seemed to regress, and definitely didn't step up when faced with competition from Ray Graham, who is clearly a better back and prospect. I'm not sure how successful a slow, 5-6, 185 lb. back can be in the NFL.

 

[Blackjacks]

Just curious if you have seen Pitt play, since you mention Lewis and Baldwin?Baldwin definitely has the wow factor you mention, and his stats are great considering the level of QB play, so I don't understand the "potential" comment. As for Lewis, I would disagree also. He was great his freshman year, but this past season he seemed to regress, and definitely didn't step up when faced with competition from Ray Graham, who is clearly a better back and prospect. I'm not sure how successful a slow, 5-6, 185 lb. back can be in the NFL.

Lewis is listed as 5'8" 195 lbs and while I admit he might be alittle small I wouldn't call him slow by any means.I don't understand you saying Lewis was a disappointment this year when he put up these numbers.Stats Overview Rushing Receiving Fumbles YEAR ATT YDS AVG LNG TD REC YDS AVG LNG TD FUM LST 2009 325 1799 5.5 85 17 25 189 7.6 31 1 0 0 2010 219 1061 4.8 76 13 27 216 8.0 31 0 0 0 Almost 5 yards a carry and 13 td's isn't BAD by any meansBut Baldwin put up 822 yards receiving and 5 td's and you argue he overpreformed. These #'s aren't great stats for a 1st round draft prospect....he has more "potential" than his stats showed2008 18 404 22.4 60 3 1 4 4.0 4 0 0 0 2009 57 1111 19.5 79 8 1 61 61.0 61 0 0 0 2010 53 822 15.5 61 5 3 3 1.0 6 0 0 0 Not the college #'s I want out of a first round prospect but thanks for the reponse

 

[Blackjacks]

And I will be the first to say I didn't see every Pitt snap but when I watched them play one player stood out to me more than the other. Baldwin always seemed to want teh ball but didn't do anything extra to get it.

I also saw alot of replays downfield that showed him dogging his blocking and giving up on some routes.

I think he looks like he already has a premadonna syndrome going on and he really hasn't done anything yet IMO

 

[DansRams]

Just curious if you have seen Pitt play, since you mention Lewis and Baldwin?

Baldwin definitely has the wow factor you mention, and his stats are great considering the level of QB play, so I don't understand the "potential" comment. As for Lewis, I would disagree also. He was great his freshman year, but this past season he seemed to regress, and definitely didn't step up when faced with competition from Ray Graham, who is clearly a better back and prospect. I'm not sure how successful a slow, 5-6, 185 lb. back can be in the NFL.

Lewis is listed as 5'8" 195 lbs and while I admit he might be alittle small I wouldn't call him slow by any means.

I don't understand you saying Lewis was a disappointment this year when he put up these numbers.

Stats Overview Rushing Receiving Fumbles

YEAR ATT YDS AVG LNG TD REC YDS AVG LNG TD FUM LST

2009 325 1799 5.5 85 17 25 189 7.6 31 1 0 0

2010 219 1061 4.8 76 13 27 216 8.0 31 0 0 0

Almost 5 yards a carry and 13 td's isn't BAD by any means

But Baldwin put up 822 yards receiving and 5 td's and you argue he overpreformed. These #'s aren't great stats for a 1st round draft prospect....he has more "potential" than his stats showed

2008 18 404 22.4 60 3 1 4 4.0 4 0 0 0

2009 57 1111 19.5 79 8 1 61 61.0 61 0 0 0

2010 53 822 15.5 61 5 3 3 1.0 6 0 0 0

Not the college #'s I want out of a first round prospect but thanks for the reponse

Yet you drafted D Thomas last year...hmmm

 

[Blackjacks]

Yet you drafted D Thomas last year...hmmm

Good catch

Got him late and I liked him going with McDaniels.

I thought he was alot more athletic than Baldwin but I can see your point

 

[moderated]

Just curious if you have seen Pitt play, since you mention Lewis and Baldwin?Baldwin definitely has the wow factor you mention, and his stats are great considering the level of QB play, so I don't understand the "potential" comment. As for Lewis, I would disagree also. He was great his freshman year, but this past season he seemed to regress, and definitely didn't step up when faced with competition from Ray Graham, who is clearly a better back and prospect. I'm not sure how successful a slow, 5-6, 185 lb. back can be in the NFL.

Lewis is listed as 5'8" 195 lbs and while I admit he might be alittle small I wouldn't call him slow by any means.I don't understand you saying Lewis was a disappointment this year when he put up these numbers.Stats Overview Rushing Receiving Fumbles YEAR ATT YDS AVG LNG TD REC YDS AVG LNG TD FUM LST 2009 325 1799 5.5 85 17 25 189 7.6 31 1 0 0 2010 219 1061 4.8 76 13 27 216 8.0 31 0 0 0 Almost 5 yards a carry and 13 td's isn't BAD by any meansBut Baldwin put up 822 yards receiving and 5 td's and you argue he overpreformed. These #'s aren't great stats for a 1st round draft prospect....he has more "potential" than his stats showed2008 18 404 22.4 60 3 1 4 4.0 4 0 0 0 2009 57 1111 19.5 79 8 1 61 61.0 61 0 0 0 2010 53 822 15.5 61 5 3 3 1.0 6 0 0 0 Not the college #'s I want out of a first round prospect but thanks for the reponse

Who was the qb for pitt last year?The answer to that question is the reason baldwin struggled.

 

[DansRams]

Baldin 6'5 228 4.45 40, 6'10 wingspan and just had a 42+ inch vert

You might want to re-think your view on Baldwin

 

[Bri]

Watching the combine and looking at OL rankings, (going solely on the combine) they are way off.

I would be surprised if 2 flops and and 2 values are there.

 

[FUBAR]

great values: Ryan Mallett Arkansas qb, Christian Ponder Florida St. qb and Dion Lewis Pitt rb If Mallett last til the 2nd round you are getting the most skilled QB in this year with excellent value. He has a cannon for an arm and great height for his position. He is going to be the lucky one by probably getting drafted by a winning team if he goes in the late first instead of to a rebuilding team where he will get thrown in the fire. I really think a team will get him in the 2nd and let him sit for a year or two and he could be a star. By far, the most talent qb coming out this year.What are your thoughts???????

I agree with Mallett. If he falls to the Titans 2nd, that would be great. But it wouldn't surprise me if the Seahawks took him.

 

[Blackjacks]

Baldin 6'5 228 4.45 40, 6'10 wingspan and just had a 42+ inch vert You might want to re-think your view on Baldwin

There are alot of big guys who flop. If it was that easy we would all be GM's.In games I have seen him play I have never seen him dominate. On a run heavy team like Pitt he should have killed db's on play action....I don't care who his qb was. I never saw him go across the middle (I will admit I didn't watch every game) but he seemed like a homerun threat only and not even that good at that. I will definetly admit he has the size, speed and measurables but I am worried about the unmeasurables.I think Chicago will take him at the bottom of the first and I think the could do alot better

 

[doowain]

Baldin 6'5 228 4.45 40, 6'10 wingspan and just had a 42+ inch vert

You might want to re-think your view on Baldwin

There are alot of big guys who flop. If it was that easy we would all be GM's.

In games I have seen him play I have never seen him dominate. On a run heavy team like Pitt he should have killed db's on play action....I don't care who his qb was. I never saw him go across the middle (I will admit I didn't watch every game) but he seemed like a homerun threat only and not even that good at that. I will definetly admit he has the size, speed and measurables but I am worried about the unmeasurables.

I think Chicago will take him at the bottom of the first and I think the could do alot better

From nfl.com....

Baldwin's Strengths are listed as:

Baldwin is a huge receiver with deceptive speed. Long strider that can stretch the field and shows the ability to consistently track the ball in the air. Possesses excellent hands and high points the ball very well. Strong runner after the catch that breaks arm tackles and flashes a vicious stiff arm. Fearless over the middle.

I'm most interested in the bolded part, because clearly the expert analysts don't have the same concerns as you.

Talent is not the question with Baldwin. It never has been. Character concerns and lackadaisical effort have been his question marks all along.

We can all sit and play the "I've never seen X receiver do this, so he must not do it." Probably not the best way to go about projecting future NFL success.

 

[Steed]

Baldin 6'5 228 4.45 40, 6'10 wingspan and just had a 42+ inch vert You might want to re-think your view on Baldwin

There are alot of big guys who flop. If it was that easy we would all be GM's.In games I have seen him play I have never seen him dominate. On a run heavy team like Pitt he should have killed db's on play action....I don't care who his qb was. I never saw him go across the middle (I will admit I didn't watch every game) but he seemed like a homerun threat only and not even that good at that. I will definetly admit he has the size, speed and measurables but I am worried about the unmeasurables.I think Chicago will take him at the bottom of the first and I think the could do alot better

Baldwin doesn't fit the Martz mold. I think the Bears are hoping Carimi falls to them like every mock has predicted. They need a mean lineman as bad as they need a WR.

 

[Blackjacks]

Baldin 6'5 228 4.45 40, 6'10 wingspan and just had a 42+ inch vert

You might want to re-think your view on Baldwin

There are alot of big guys who flop. If it was that easy we would all be GM's.

In games I have seen him play I have never seen him dominate. On a run heavy team like Pitt he should have killed db's on play action....I don't care who his qb was. I never saw him go across the middle (I will admit I didn't watch every game) but he seemed like a homerun threat only and not even that good at that. I will definetly admit he has the size, speed and measurables but I am worried about the unmeasurables.

I think Chicago will take him at the bottom of the first and I think the could do alot better

From nfl.com....

Baldwin's Strengths are listed as:

Baldwin is a huge receiver with deceptive speed. Long strider that can stretch the field and shows the ability to consistently track the ball in the air. Possesses excellent hands and high points the ball very well. Strong runner after the catch that breaks arm tackles and flashes a vicious stiff arm. Fearless over the middle.

I'm most interested in the bolded part, because clearly the expert analysts don't have the same concerns as you.

Talent is not the question with Baldwin. It never has been. Character concerns and lackadaisical effort have been his question marks all along.

We can all sit and play the "I've never seen X receiver do this, so he must not do it." Probably not the best way to go about projecting future NFL success.

Me and the experts will strongly disagree then

 

[RUSF18]

It may 100% be anecdotal sample size, but Baldwin to me is a straight fly route kind of guy. Can't recall him going over the middle. He goes downfield, they throw it up, and he uses his size to outmuscle DBs. This is what led to him lashing out at the coaching staff towards the end of the year. Is it because he wanted to go over the middle, but they wouldn't call the plays for him? Or because he knew he could be criticized for his route running?

 

[Bri]

Me and the experts will strongly disagree then

(Don't wanna quote whole thing)Baldwin seems intriguing but guys that didn't dominate in college raise some concern for me especially these huge athletic types, almost seems inevitable that they would. After two dreams, the WR class seems weak as far as those that will contribute (enough for FF) as rooks. If ya give me that in this discussion, then Baldwin seems like a nice guy to spend a year on teaching him how to use his size.Sterling Sharpe was fantastic and it's a shame he doesn't want to coach and that WR coaches probably don't make (relatively) a lot of money. He was discussing many different things yesterday and one of the things was keeping a DB in jail (blocking him off with your big body). I'm not pretending Baldwin is the first big guy, but I imagine teams are going to figure they can teach him similar techniques to use his big frame far better in the NFL.Ramses Barden was starting when he got hurt. In his development, he just reached that first goal of starting due to one injury then. When the WRs were healthy, he was in on several red zone plays which is significant considering the talent they have at WR. He got hurt, but has been fabulous at posting many updates on twitter and seems honest, genuine where he's going to be OK when (if) the season comes around. Barden is probably a good guy to discuss here. Sweet hands, huge frame, etc but most of all, he has a ridiculously great attitude and is adored by his teammates and coaches-I mean like nothing I've seen before by a guy that hasn't accomplished anything. If you have Smith leaving in free agency then he's hoping to beat out Mario just to truly begin getting sincere game experience and not a play here N there. I would think that if he were on St. Louis, he would have been thrown to the wolves by now.how do you think these two compare? and what if Baldwin goes to a team with good WRs? How's his work ethic? Because it's super important for college kids that won't play initially.

 

[identikit]

This isn't the place to discuss Barden.

It's a disservice to Baldwin, frankly it's apples and oranges as far as circumstances.

 

[Blackjacks]

This isn't the place to discuss Barden.It's a disservice to Baldwin, frankly it's apples and oranges as far as circumstances.

I agree. These 2 players have very little similarities.Baldwin atleast played ina bigtime conference. If I remember correctly Barden's biggest problem was getting off the line and playing physical football. I don't see that problem with Baldwin. The only comparision could be size and Baldwin looks alot better built than Barden with similiar frames.

 

[Blackjacks]

I don't mind people disagreeing with my choices but I was wanting to hear of what other people choices would be.

 

[cheese]

First of all, I completely agree with the OP on Baldwin. In college, about half the plays he ran a fly route and tried to make a play over the DB(s). The other half he jogged a fly route while they ran it or threw the other direction. To be fair, he did make a lot of tough catches doing that and his threat down the field helped their offense a lot. Still, I view him as a guy who isn't NFL ready and has very questionable desire to improve.

On the plus side...

To state the obvious, AJ Green is a stud so he is value wherever he goes. I think people are somewhat overlooking him because it seems like every year lately we have seen a really good WR come into the league so it isn't even a big deal anymore. Take a look at the productivity of those guys lately from both an NFL angle and a fantasy angle and you should be excited about Green.

 

[Kimbo Slice]