Biabreakable
Footballguy
So aside from my pick of Witten I think I have assembled a pretty good team for a dynasty start up.

Very nice of you to ensure all others get that memo.So I seem to have missed the memo about the kicker run starting at this point.
You're welcome!Very nice of you to ensure all others get that memo.So I seem to have missed the memo about the kicker run starting at this point.
15 of 24 picks through 13.7... they're going fast.Biabreakable said:So I seem to have missed the memo about the kicker run starting at this point.
Or unsuccessful strategy by the sheep who followed him.15 of 24 picks through 13.7... they're going fast.Biabreakable said:So I seem to have missed the memo about the kicker run starting at this point.
Successful strategy by Kruppe to kick it off with a pair at his last turn.
Thanks for calling me a sheep. (And 11 and counting of the other owners.)Or unsuccessful strategy by the sheep who followed him.15 of 24 picks through 13.7... they're going fast.Biabreakable said:So I seem to have missed the memo about the kicker run starting at this point.
Successful strategy by Kruppe to kick it off with a pair at his last turn.
Simple logic: if starting the kicker run is a good strategy, following the kicker run is a bad strategy.Thanks for calling me a sheep. (And 11 and counting of the other owners.)Or unsuccessful strategy by the sheep who followed him.15 of 24 picks through 13.7... they're going fast.Biabreakable said:So I seem to have missed the memo about the kicker run starting at this point.
Successful strategy by Kruppe to kick it off with a pair at his last turn.
But at any given pick, what are the odds that player will be the most valuable player (or player at his position)? There is plenty of risk with every choice at this stage of the draft.Simple logic: if starting the kicker run is a good strategy, following the kicker run is a bad strategy.Thanks for calling me a sheep. (And 11 and counting of the other owners.)Or unsuccessful strategy by the sheep who followed him.15 of 24 picks through 13.7... they're going fast.Biabreakable said:So I seem to have missed the memo about the kicker run starting at this point.
Successful strategy by Kruppe to kick it off with a pair at his last turn.
Actually it's possible that both are wrong; I doubt that the potential value in kickers makes them worth the 11.16 and 12.01 picks, even if they wind up #1 and #2, which they won't.
1) The vast majority of kickers have undifferentiated scoring.But at any given pick, what are the odds that player will be the most valuable player (or player at his position)? There is plenty of risk with every choice at this stage of the draft.Simple logic: if starting the kicker run is a good strategy, following the kicker run is a bad strategy.Thanks for calling me a sheep. (And 11 and counting of the other owners.)Or unsuccessful strategy by the sheep who followed him.15 of 24 picks through 13.7... they're going fast.Biabreakable said:So I seem to have missed the memo about the kicker run starting at this point.
Successful strategy by Kruppe to kick it off with a pair at his last turn.
Actually it's possible that both are wrong; I doubt that the potential value in kickers makes them worth the 11.16 and 12.01 picks, even if they wind up #1 and #2, which they won't.
If Kruppe made those picks and 20+ of the 30 picks before his next pick are PKs, he didn't lose much, if anything, but he likely ensured (a) he won't get zero or low points at PK, a legitimate risk, and (b) he will probably gain an advantage over the other teams at that position.
The teams that followed (a.k.a. the sheep) derive the same benefit, albeit lesser and declining as more PKs are taken (and thus more non-PK picks will occur before their next 1-2 picks).
Coordinator won this league in 2013 and took his PKs at 13.11 and 15.11.1) The vast majority of kickers have undifferentiated scoring.But at any given pick, what are the odds that player will be the most valuable player (or player at his position)? There is plenty of risk with every choice at this stage of the draft.Simple logic: if starting the kicker run is a good strategy, following the kicker run is a bad strategy.Thanks for calling me a sheep. (And 11 and counting of the other owners.)Or unsuccessful strategy by the sheep who followed him.15 of 24 picks through 13.7... they're going fast.Biabreakable said:So I seem to have missed the memo about the kicker run starting at this point.
Successful strategy by Kruppe to kick it off with a pair at his last turn.
Actually it's possible that both are wrong; I doubt that the potential value in kickers makes them worth the 11.16 and 12.01 picks, even if they wind up #1 and #2, which they won't.
If Kruppe made those picks and 20+ of the 30 picks before his next pick are PKs, he didn't lose much, if anything, but he likely ensured (a) he won't get zero or low points at PK, a legitimate risk, and (b) he will probably gain an advantage over the other teams at that position.
The teams that followed (a.k.a. the sheep) derive the same benefit, albeit lesser and declining as more PKs are taken (and thus more non-PK picks will occur before their next 1-2 picks).
2) The predictability of kicker scoring is low.
In 2013, the difference between the #1 K and the #16 K was 70 points. And the #1 K was the 11th K taken; the #16 K was the #28 K taken. The difference between the #16 K and the #31 K was just 33 points. The very last kicker taken finished at #18.
And some guy named Just Win Baby took the #8 kicker, who finished as the #32 kicker.
Looking at the opportunity cost, the first player after the first kicker was taken was Golden Tate, who finished with over 200 points. Also during the kicker run was Joique Bell (#17 RB), Brandon LaFell (#44 WR), Rod Streater (#36 WR), and Zac Stacy (#20 RB).
You don't win this league by getting 160 points instead of 140 points from a kicker. You win by finding J.Bell in the 14th round, as Coordinator (our winner) did.
those things you have no control over.....putting yourself in the situation where you are having to research training camp battles to try and see who might win the job is something you have control over....I got a zero at kicker last year because Tynes got a staph infection. Stuff happens.
exactly!I tried doing the wait on a PK dance last year in one of these and found myself knee deep in researching what was going on in MIA between Carpenter and Sturgis and then also in BUF between Hopkins and Lindell....at the time of this draft Hopkins seemed to have the edge over Lindell.....which he did....but then an injury and signing of Carpenter in BUF, who never relinquished the job, netted me a zero for my Hopkins pick....
if Hopkins doesn't get hurt would he have had the job.....I don't know for sure.....but what I do know is I didn't like having put myself in that position
so in most cases, I don't think it's the 20-40 point difference here or there that is the big deal....it's the 0-120 point difference you want to try and avoid.....some years are a little more volatile than others in the preseason when it comes to PK's.....but I know I really don't want to do that dance again....120+ points can be the difference in these.....
Gordon is appealing his ban. Seems pretty low probability to me (especially because he has a DWI since his suspension), but I suppose a risk like that might make sense in this format. (Although it seems likely you could get him in round 17 if you really wanted him).I have no clue who that Houston tight end is. Sounds like a lawyer. I thought Gordon was out for the year. Bizarro draft
i disagree....wasted pick IMO.....if he did come back your still chasing last years points thinking he outscores others left....I felt taking Josh Gordon was worth the risk of a zero because if he does play 8 games he will likely outscore the other WRs left at this point. The chances of him doing that do seem small as he will likely be suspended the whole season. I do not think any of really know what the outcome on that will be yet however.
I like to live dangerously.i disagree....wasted pick IMO.....if he did come back your still chasing last years points thinking he outscores others left....I felt taking Josh Gordon was worth the risk of a zero because if he does play 8 games he will likely outscore the other WRs left at this point. The chances of him doing that do seem small as he will likely be suspended the whole season. I do not think any of really know what the outcome on that will be yet however.
If I'm correct, sure.Anarchy99 said:So your saying my pick of Austin almost 60 picks later in League 1 was a decent one?
A more interesting question is, when did the first Cleveland WR go off the board? Is the difference due to different assessment of who will catch balls in Cleveland, or due to the JV league's poorer understanding of value in this league format?Anarchy99 said:So your saying my pick of Austin almost 60 picks later in League 1 was a decent one?
Hawkins 201A more interesting question is, when did the first Cleveland WR go off the board? Is the difference due to different assessment of who will catch balls in Cleveland, or due to the JV league's poorer understanding of value in this league format?Anarchy99 said:So your saying my pick of Austin almost 60 picks later in League 1 was a decent one?
Looking at previous years, the last team's WR1 (that is, the leading WR on the team who had the lamest leading WR) is likely to finish around WR45, with ~150 points. Take Denarius Moore last year (WR48, 146 points). He was the #152 scoring player; he scored more than Deangelo Williams or Pierre Thomas. Par would put his draft value around round 9-10.
All the WRs in Cleveland come with a discount because the situation is unclear. But I'd say if the first one isn't off the board until the 15th or 16th round, someone's leaving a lot of value on the table.
Yeah, that seems erroneous, even given the uncertainty. 200+ is getting down into 2013's Donnie Avery, Tavon Austin, Jerome Simpson territory. Certainly one of the above guys will do better than that; maybe even two of them.Hawkins 201A more interesting question is, when did the first Cleveland WR go off the board? Is the difference due to different assessment of who will catch balls in Cleveland, or due to the JV league's poorer understanding of value in this league format?Anarchy99 said:So your saying my pick of Austin almost 60 picks later in League 1 was a decent one?
Looking at previous years, the last team's WR1 (that is, the leading WR on the team who had the lamest leading WR) is likely to finish around WR45, with ~150 points. Take Denarius Moore last year (WR48, 146 points). He was the #152 scoring player; he scored more than Deangelo Williams or Pierre Thomas. Par would put his draft value around round 9-10.
All the WRs in Cleveland come with a discount because the situation is unclear. But I'd say if the first one isn't off the board until the 15th or 16th round, someone's leaving a lot of value on the table.
Austin 236
Burleson 278
LOL!Hey Sonny how the hell are ya?![]()
Ok everyone stop drafting for 12 picks so Sonny can catch up.
There are only a few kickers left. Ger them while they're hot!!
Streater scored 174.5 points last year and thus was Oakland's leading WR. Making your point even stronger.A more interesting question is, when did the first Cleveland WR go off the board? Is the difference due to different assessment of who will catch balls in Cleveland, or due to the JV league's poorer understanding of value in this league format?Anarchy99 said:So your saying my pick of Austin almost 60 picks later in League 1 was a decent one?
Looking at previous years, the last team's WR1 (that is, the leading WR on the team who had the lamest leading WR) is likely to finish around WR45, with ~150 points. Take Denarius Moore last year (WR48, 146 points). He was the #152 scoring player; he scored more than Deangelo Williams or Pierre Thomas. Par would put his draft value around round 9-10.
All the WRs in Cleveland come with a discount because the situation is unclear. But I'd say if the first one isn't off the board until the 15th or 16th round, someone's leaving a lot of value on the table.
I agree one of them will but it may not be any of the above.Yeah, that seems erroneous, even given the uncertainty. 200+ is getting down into 2013's Donnie Avery, Tavon Austin, Jerome Simpson territory. Certainly one of the above guys will do better than that; maybe even two of them.Hawkins 201A more interesting question is, when did the first Cleveland WR go off the board? Is the difference due to different assessment of who will catch balls in Cleveland, or due to the JV league's poorer understanding of value in this league format?Anarchy99 said:So your saying my pick of Austin almost 60 picks later in League 1 was a decent one?
Looking at previous years, the last team's WR1 (that is, the leading WR on the team who had the lamest leading WR) is likely to finish around WR45, with ~150 points. Take Denarius Moore last year (WR48, 146 points). He was the #152 scoring player; he scored more than Deangelo Williams or Pierre Thomas. Par would put his draft value around round 9-10.
All the WRs in Cleveland come with a discount because the situation is unclear. But I'd say if the first one isn't off the board until the 15th or 16th round, someone's leaving a lot of value on the table.
Austin 236
Burleson 278
I think the risk that Gordon comes back can be largely discounted. What gives you any idea that he's going to get his suspension reduced?I agree one of them will but it may not be any of the above.Yeah, that seems erroneous, even given the uncertainty. 200+ is getting down into 2013's Donnie Avery, Tavon Austin, Jerome Simpson territory. Certainly one of the above guys will do better than that; maybe even two of them.Hawkins 201A more interesting question is, when did the first Cleveland WR go off the board? Is the difference due to different assessment of who will catch balls in Cleveland, or due to the JV league's poorer understanding of value in this league format?Anarchy99 said:So your saying my pick of Austin almost 60 picks later in League 1 was a decent one?
Looking at previous years, the last team's WR1 (that is, the leading WR on the team who had the lamest leading WR) is likely to finish around WR45, with ~150 points. Take Denarius Moore last year (WR48, 146 points). He was the #152 scoring player; he scored more than Deangelo Williams or Pierre Thomas. Par would put his draft value around round 9-10.
All the WRs in Cleveland come with a discount because the situation is unclear. But I'd say if the first one isn't off the board until the 15th or 16th round, someone's leaving a lot of value on the table.
Austin 236
Burleson 278
I wasn't thinking of Gordon.I think the risk that Gordon comes back can be largely discounted. What gives you any idea that he's going to get his suspension reduced?I agree one of them will but it may not be any of the above.Yeah, that seems erroneous, even given the uncertainty. 200+ is getting down into 2013's Donnie Avery, Tavon Austin, Jerome Simpson territory. Certainly one of the above guys will do better than that; maybe even two of them.Hawkins 201A more interesting question is, when did the first Cleveland WR go off the board? Is the difference due to different assessment of who will catch balls in Cleveland, or due to the JV league's poorer understanding of value in this league format?Anarchy99 said:So your saying my pick of Austin almost 60 picks later in League 1 was a decent one?
Looking at previous years, the last team's WR1 (that is, the leading WR on the team who had the lamest leading WR) is likely to finish around WR45, with ~150 points. Take Denarius Moore last year (WR48, 146 points). He was the #152 scoring player; he scored more than Deangelo Williams or Pierre Thomas. Par would put his draft value around round 9-10.
All the WRs in Cleveland come with a discount because the situation is unclear. But I'd say if the first one isn't off the board until the 15th or 16th round, someone's leaving a lot of value on the table.
Austin 236
Burleson 278
You trying to be cagey about your 18th round pick? Who else do they have on the roster? Travis Benjamin and Anthony Armstrong are both return guys, not feature WRs. Charles Johnson? I'd put my money on a two-time Pro Bowler over a seventh-round draft pick coming off a blown ACL.I wasn't thinking of Gordon.I think the risk that Gordon comes back can be largely discounted. What gives you any idea that he's going to get his suspension reduced?I agree one of them will but it may not be any of the above.Yeah, that seems erroneous, even given the uncertainty. 200+ is getting down into 2013's Donnie Avery, Tavon Austin, Jerome Simpson territory. Certainly one of the above guys will do better than that; maybe even two of them.Hawkins 201A more interesting question is, when did the first Cleveland WR go off the board? Is the difference due to different assessment of who will catch balls in Cleveland, or due to the JV league's poorer understanding of value in this league format?Anarchy99 said:So your saying my pick of Austin almost 60 picks later in League 1 was a decent one?
Looking at previous years, the last team's WR1 (that is, the leading WR on the team who had the lamest leading WR) is likely to finish around WR45, with ~150 points. Take Denarius Moore last year (WR48, 146 points). He was the #152 scoring player; he scored more than Deangelo Williams or Pierre Thomas. Par would put his draft value around round 9-10.
All the WRs in Cleveland come with a discount because the situation is unclear. But I'd say if the first one isn't off the board until the 15th or 16th round, someone's leaving a lot of value on the table.
Austin 236
Burleson 278
That will most likely be a wasted pick. I was just feeling saucy about the idea of how funny it would be if his case is put off until next season.
There are other receivers on the Browns who could end up being the most targeted besides Gordon.
I am willing to assert that the top-scoring WR for the Browns will score something near 150 points at minimum. He could easily score 200. Terrance Williams scored 150 for you last year; that line was 44/736/5. It's not plausible that no WR on Cleveland will reach that level. In 2012 Washington had Santana Moss scoring 152.60 and Pierre Garcon scoring 141.20. So Morgan was the leading WR except for the two guys who scored more than he did.Well it seems strange to me that the Browns did not seem to be concerned with addressing the WR position in the draft. They had the most draft capital in a WR rich draft class, yet still they passed. There was some rumor about them possibly trying to trade up for Lee but that did not happen.