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2014 NFL Draft thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter GregR
- Start date
The Bandit
Footballguy
Fwiw, there were a bunch of rumors earlier in the season after the TRich trade that Clev was hot for Ben Tate when he hits FA this offseason.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
This is just a better draft for WRs than RBs. I just think the wiser move would take a quality wideout in the late first and take a back in the later rounds. No need to reach for a running back.
They spent the third overall pick on a guy who appears to be a total bust. I don't think that is going to keep them from using their late first or early second on a running back if they rate one highly. It is a need.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Different front office. This front office traded him away because they valued a first round pick more (knowing it was likely to be a low one being from AFC South favorite IND).
In 2013 very good backs like Bernard, Bell, Ball and Lacy went in the second. In 2014, it looks like there are a half dozen RBs (Hyde, Mason, Carey, Sankey, Seastrunk, Hill) that could be comparable, so some will likely drop to the second or third. They could fill the need later. They could also go after a free agent like Ben Tate. While he may not be starter material, they were reportedly high on Dion Lewis (they could have cut him instead of putting him on IR, I think he broke his leg?), who looked very good in the preseason and broke some of Shady McCoy's records at Pittsburgh.
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msommer
Footballguy
Those five or six guys keep getting ranked i different orders depending on who's doing the ranking. If that is the case then it is almost certain that most if not all drop to the second or below. Granted, no one has been to the combine yet. Obviously you can have a FO fall in love with a guy because he has this or stat skill which might push one or more up but I think it is more likely that they drop to the second. And if anyone has a bad combine, third or lower.Bob Magaw said:
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Filling a RB "need" with a 1st or early 2nd round pick would be really, really stupid.
Only way you spend a 1st on a RB is if the guy has elite talent. I don't see that in this class.
Only way you spend a 1st on a RB is if the guy has elite talent. I don't see that in this class.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
Another reason the Browns might want to draft another reciever early is because Devone Bess just went beserk in an airport. http://miami.cbslocal.com/2014/01/17/ex-dolphin-davone-bess-arrested-at-fort-lauderdale-airport/ Not good for a player that lead the league in drops.
MoveToSkypager
Footballguy
Bess, 28, was taken into custody by police at Fort Lauderdale International Airport around 6:19 a.m. Friday.
According to the arrest report, Bess was walking down the concourse acting “irrationally, dancing, singing with his pants repeatedly falling down.”
The arrest report said Bess was asked by law enforcement if he was alright and gave no response. BSO said Bess then took a cup of coffee not belonging to him and then squeezed the cup until the liquid poured over the officers uniform.
The arresting officer said Bess then took a fighting stance and the officer hit the football player with his ASP in the leg, but it had no effect.
The officer said Bess then took off his shirt and again took up a fighting stance and refused repeated orders to get on the ground. Once back-up units arrived, Bess surrendered and was taken into custody.
The arrest report said Bess appeared to “be under the influence of an unknown narcotic due to his irrational behavior.”
“He appeared to be looking through me when I was talking to him,” the arresting officer wrote.”
Sounds like this dude has a PCP problem.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
After they just spent a fortune on Kruger and have an emerging talent in Sheard? I think not.
Clowney is a much better fit for the 4-3 than 3-4.
cstu
Footballguy
I think it's pretty clear they'd love to trade down if they can. They have a lot of needs so if they can pick up a 1st+ and still get one of Bridgewater, Clowney or Mathews they would do it.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Cleveland should FA the RBm, Tate, Gerhardt, CJ, something like that.
Take a QB at 4, Bortles, Bridgewater,
Take a QB at 4, Bortles, Bridgewater,
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
'THEY' who made the Trent Richardson pick are no longer working with the Cleveland Browns.Slapdash said:
Both former team president Mike Holmgren and former GM Tom Heckertt were let go. Then team doesn't even have the same owner (Randy Lerner sold the team to Jimmy Haslam) who let Holmgren run the team at that time.
The NEW FRONT OFFICE were against the picks of RB Trent Ricahrdson and QB Brandon Weeden. They are the ones who made the deal to trade away Richardson which angered former team president Mike Holmgren who said if he were the head coach of the Browns and the front office traded him away that he would walk.
The new front office isn't taking a RB in the first round and they won't take one in the second round and probably won't in the third round. The new front office doesn't place that high a value on the RB position and have made that clear. Don't mistake Mike Holmgren with the new front office.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
Charles Davis' Mock has some strange picks. None more stranger than Carlos Hyde to the Panthers (unless they let part ways with one or two RBs).
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
He also had Lee ahead of Watkins.
I have liked his work during the draft broadcast, and I'm sure he watches film, but it was one of the more questionable mocks I've seen.
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netnalp
Footballguy
Jason Cole & #8207;@JasonPhilCole 16m
Record 102 underclassmen come out for NFL draft. At least half the first round going to be juniors.
To clarify something: New NFL rookie wage scale had NOTHING to do with stopping underclassmen from entering the draft. It had to do with
decreasing the guaranteed money in first-round contracts. It actually INCREASES need for undergrads to come out because they must start
the clock on getting to second contract as early as possible. It's a completely inverted impact as record 102 players come out this year
and the real kick in the teeth for players is going to be what they see happen in the next few months.
Record 102 underclassmen come out for NFL draft. At least half the first round going to be juniors.
To clarify something: New NFL rookie wage scale had NOTHING to do with stopping underclassmen from entering the draft. It had to do with
decreasing the guaranteed money in first-round contracts. It actually INCREASES need for undergrads to come out because they must start
the clock on getting to second contract as early as possible. It's a completely inverted impact as record 102 players come out this year
and the real kick in the teeth for players is going to be what they see happen in the next few months.
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MAC_32
Footballguy
people expected too much from Kruger due to his contract, I didn't expect much different than he produced,
MAC_32
Footballguy
maybe Toby, but not the other two. I think A guy like Bradshaw makes more sense.
MAC_32
Footballguy
J Stew will be cut if he is not restructured, he may anyway.
MAC_32
Footballguy
the defensive scheme going forward is far from being set in stone.
MAC_32
Footballguy
a rb will be drafted, but I would be very surprised if it's inside the top 75
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
I can't speak for why others found him a disappointment, you are probably right. They didn't pay him a big contract in a vacuum, they thought he was an ascendant player based on his career high 9 sacks and 30 tackles in 2012 (15 games). I'm not sure what too much is, but I think the front office might have been expecting more impact plays. Maybe they were mistaken, and didn't account for the fact that he was able to put up those numbers for a stacked BAL defense. If 4.5 sacks is his career average the rest of the way, it will probably be commonly viewed as a disappointing signing.
MAC_32
Footballguy
i don't think they brought him in to be that impact guy, right or wrong that wagon is hitched to Mingo. They expect Kruger to be a veteran anchor, an asset vs. the run and in the locker room that makes the occasional splash play and outworks everyone. For the most part I thought he did that well this year. He hit a lull mid season when he was being over used because of injuries to others, but finished stronger. The problem is due to the contract and the position he plays most expected a ten sack guy, which he is not.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
OK, he isn't a 10 sack guy, but he got 9 sacks in 2012.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000150074/article/paul-kruger-cleveland-browns-agree-to-40m-contract
Whether you talk about realistic or unrealistic expectations which is subjective, $40 mil for five years (not sure about guaranteed money) is a lot if you are describing a try hard, rah rah guy where "about" 4.5 sacks is the expectation. They certainly could have found OLBs capable of that a lot cheaper, if their sights were set that low. Good pass rushing teams try and find more than one pass rusher. IMO the front office had higher expectations than a 4.5 sack, try hard, rah rah guy, and if he doesn't become a more productive complemement to Mingo, this will commonly be viewed as a disappointing signing.
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Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Got it. Would you have signed him to that contract, do you think it was a good signing?
* As far as the 9 sacks in 2012 being an outlier, that may have been correlated with an increase in time? Not sure this is the case, but if he had half the sacks in half the time in 2011, and had alway been a situational player and than assumed greater playing time, it might not be such an outlier. But again, maybe it is easier to get 9 sacks in BAL with that supporting cast and surrounding talent than in CLE, and the front office didn't fully appreciate this - or maybe they did, and realized it would be a process that might take a few years. But you seem to be suggesting about a 4.5 sack guy is what he is, I'm not convinced the front office thought that given the size of the contract, and if they did, IMO they made a mistake. In the link provided, Chudzinski alludes to his production in the 2012 playoffs, in which he had 4.5 sacks in just four games, same as he had in all of 2013. The conversation started by saying people had unrealistic expectations based on his contract. But it is hard to separate them. Of course, if he was paid the vet minimum, expectations would be different and probably no disappointment on that basis, though CLE fans might want a more productive complement to Mingo, aside from salary.
* As far as the 9 sacks in 2012 being an outlier, that may have been correlated with an increase in time? Not sure this is the case, but if he had half the sacks in half the time in 2011, and had alway been a situational player and than assumed greater playing time, it might not be such an outlier. But again, maybe it is easier to get 9 sacks in BAL with that supporting cast and surrounding talent than in CLE, and the front office didn't fully appreciate this - or maybe they did, and realized it would be a process that might take a few years. But you seem to be suggesting about a 4.5 sack guy is what he is, I'm not convinced the front office thought that given the size of the contract, and if they did, IMO they made a mistake. In the link provided, Chudzinski alludes to his production in the 2012 playoffs, in which he had 4.5 sacks in just four games, same as he had in all of 2013. The conversation started by saying people had unrealistic expectations based on his contract. But it is hard to separate them. Of course, if he was paid the vet minimum, expectations would be different and probably no disappointment on that basis, though CLE fans might want a more productive complement to Mingo, aside from salary.
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MAC_32
Footballguy
no, but when I saw the numbers I wasn't as upset as I thought I would when I first heard we were likely signing him. Iirc it is not a painful contract to get out of after year three if he won't restructure. He won't hinder us until that point. He may help bridge. We'll see. I don't trust this front office as far as I can throw them right now, so I really Don't know what to think.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
That would suck for J Stewart. He never reached his potential. They did draft Kenyon Barner. They have bigger needs like WR in IMO.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
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Village Idiot
Pokerguy
With the current state of the NFL there isn't a burning need to have a stud RB.Bri said:
There are multiple RB in this draft that can be had in rounds 2 and 3 at least that will be good NFL RB's.
Carey, Mason, Hyde, Sankey, Hill, Seastrunk.
There is a near 0% chance all of those RB's are gone after the 1st round is over or even the 2nd round is finished.
Just look at recent draft history for a laundry list of RB's that have performed well that were not selected in round 1.
I think many of the RB's in this draft would be a reach if taken in round 1 unless it's at the end of the round.
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Blake Bortles, Johnny Manziel draw praise from Bill O'Brien
By Mike Huguenin
College Football 24/7 writer
By Mike Huguenin
College Football 24/7 writer
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
I don't know that I believe Snead, but right now Bailey's the guy to own for 2014. He had 15 receptions in the last five games once they worked him in. That lead the team. Bradford might make him a worthy start in PPR leagues.
coolnerd
Footballguy
Well, with 5 relative high picks in 3-4 years they shouldn't need another WR, but not sure if they have found one or not. Austin is probably always going to be a gadget man that needs creativity to be worth using. The others just need to fight it out see if any of them are better.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Agree they need a #1 and that they don't have one. But I think they could get by with Givens as a deep guy, Cook in the middle and Bailey as the possession guy and that they probably have bigger holes to worry about.
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Bob Magaw
Footballguy
I don't think Snead is about to divulge his actual draft strategy in January (which you already acknowledged upthread).
I don't know if Watkins is a possible target (IMO the ideal draft would be, possibly through a combo trade down from 1.2 and up from 1.13, to improbably emerge from the first round with Greg Robinson and Sammy Watkins, arguably two of the top 3-5 prospects in the class), but if he was, it isn't like he would say in advance they are going to trade down to 1.6 and take Watkins there. Obviously a team could trade up with OAK at 1.5 and snipe them. This is exactly what happened in 2012 (except for the part about Snead disclosing strategy and targets). They traded with WAS from 1.2 to 1.6, everybody knew they needed a WR, and JAX jumped them with a surgical move, I think from 1.7 to 1.5, and stole Blackmon (well, maybe JAX saved STL from themselves and it worked out for the best, but Blackmon has looked like a potential star when not suspended). Reportedly Fisher slammed his glasses down when this happened.
When we play poker, we aren't in the habit of blurting out the cards in our hand, no different here.
* Agree Bailey is a hidden gem, though if they add Watkins, it will change his role, because Austin and Cook will also have roles. The problem with "getting by" is that they are in the NFC West, and what gets by in other divisions doesn't here. Fisher was interviewed the day after the season ended, and stated STL needs to score more points (I realize this may seem to contradict what I just said above, but that was about specifics, not generalities). Their defense is further along than the offense, I expect offense to be a point of emphasis in the 2014 draft (though they do definitely need a DB or two - starting FS and nickel or possibly starting CB, but perhaps they obtain extra picks on day two if they trade down from 1.2).
For a while I have thought where they might be picking with their higher first round pick, especially if they trade down (and none of the three first round picks in Fisher and Snead's first two seasons weren't traded - the one in 2012 was traded down twice), the best intersections of BPA and team need were WR (Watkins) and LT (at first Matthews, but lately Robinson). Both positions would help the offense. For STL to run with the big dogs, they need to match up better with SEA and SF. Both have multiple Pro Bowlers. STL has Quinn, that is it (in theory, Jake and Chris Long could be, Jake has been in the past, Austin could be as a returner). Watkins and Robinson, imo, have the kind of talent to be potential Pro Bowlers. They aren't a team that is just one missing piece away, they have multiple holes. Watkins or Robinson would upgrade their talent at either position. Regardless of position, whichever prospect is most talented, has the most upside, can help the most and best improve the team overall should be the pick.
** In 2012, with so many holes, they were in quantity mode (and blew it, IMO, with Quick, Jenkins and Pead in the second, getting only one starter now going into their third seasons). 2013 was a blend of quality and quantity strategies, moving up for Austin and coughing up a second, but moving down for Ogletree and getting an extra third (Bailey) and sixth (one of two used to move up for the fifth used on Stacy). The great thing about 2014, with the unexpected WAS windfall at 1.2, with their own 1.13, they have a chance to get multiple blue chip players, so they don't have to sacrifice or compromise quality, and can still add quantity, too. Furthering this theme, they may be positioned in a draft with several QB prospects and a lot of top five teams needing one, to drop down a few picks, add more in day two or in 2015, and still have a good shot at their possible intended targets of Robinson, Watkins or Matthews.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
They forgot to mention Stedman Bailey. In the last 5 weeks of the season Bailey had 3 or more touches in every game while Quick only had 2 total touches in the last 4 games of the year.
I do not think it is Sneads confidence in Quick that causes them to not feel they need to add another receiver in the draft. I think it is the confidence in Bailey.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Givens is not a #1 WR. Tavon Austin is not a #1 WR. The Rams don't have a #1 WR but they've never been in position to land one till this year. Sammy Watkins is clearly the best WR of this draft class. Watkins is a legit #1 WR prospect.
Legitimate #1 WRs like Watkins are hard to come by because they are not available in every draft and a team needs to be in position to land one.
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Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Rob Rang mock (updated 1-20)
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/nfldraftscout-RobRang
Draft Countdown mock (updated 1-17).
http://www.draftcountdown.com/sub/Mock-Draft-A.php
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/nfldraftscout-RobRang
Draft Countdown mock (updated 1-17).
http://www.draftcountdown.com/sub/Mock-Draft-A.php
Grahamburn
Footballguy
If the Rams are thinking WR they should target a bigger player like Evans, imo. They could use a guy with his size to compliment the smaller players they already have. Keep in mind they also have the 13th pick, and Evans could be available there.Bracie Smathers said:
If I'm St. Louis I take the most talented player in the draft (Clowney) with the 2nd pick, and figure out what to do with him, Long, and Quinn later.
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