Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Right. I think the Vikes are going to go defense with that pick. Somewhere along the defensive front 7. I'd like Mosley or Nix.
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2014 NFL Draft thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter GregR
- Start date
Quez
Footballguy
In 2012 Tampa dropped from 5 to 7 for a 4th rounder. Dallas jumped up from 14th to Stl. #6 pick for a 2nd round pick.
You can pretty much throw away the old pick value charts, because it's getting cheaper to move up. The draft really dictates the price, as teams would be willing to pay more to move up for a QB.
You can pretty much throw away the old pick value charts, because it's getting cheaper to move up. The draft really dictates the price, as teams would be willing to pay more to move up for a QB.
Hopefully a new coach can get better play out of the QBs. Cassel is at least an upgrade on Ponder and they can take a change on a 2nd tier guy in rounds 2 or 3. Weapons aren't bad though could use some improvement at TE.
How did Rhodes and Floyd come along? Didn't watch a ton of Vikes but it seemed like passing D remained the weakness.
Really not sure why Ponder played so poorly after doing well down the stretch in 2012.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
I
I like this or another top CB. As far as WR, there has to be a FA at least as good as Nate B. out there to sign.
This year is going to be a little more expensive, although I think Luck/Griffin were much better prospects than Manziel/Teddy.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Floyd didn't flash much but wasn't given much of a chance. Jury is still out.
Rhodes looks like a keeper. He was playing well before he got hurt.
The defense as a whole was a mess after Harrison Smith got hurt. The front seven was really bad with the linebacker corps possibly being the worst in the league.
2013, Rams gave up a 2nd (46 overall) to move from 16th to 8th in the 1st round plus some smaller moves later in the draft.
That seems similar to the price Dallas paid to move up the year before.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
I don' t think any QB is drawing the sort of interest that would constitute some team moving up. Their is no Andrew Luck or even an RG III in this group. The guy that teams would move up for is DE Jadeveon Clowney.
Interesting blurb on the Rams to WR Sammy Watkins.
http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-rams/post/_/id/4853/morning-ram-blings-watkins-to-declare
Morning Ram-blings: Watkins to declare
ST. LOUIS -- As Clemson wide receiver Sammy Watkins repeatedly abused the Ohio State Buckeyes in the Orange Bowl on Friday night, my Twitter feed exploded with St. Louis Rams fans clamoring for the team to select him in this year's NFL draft.
On Sunday afternoon, reports surfaced that the Rams will indeed have that opportunity as Watkins is poised to declare for the draft. According to our draft analysts Mel Kiper Jr. and Todd McShay as well as most of the other draft pundits out there, Watkins instantly becomes the most desirable receiver in the draft.
Kiper provided further analysis of Watkins' draft stock in this
Insider piece. In it, Kiper identifies some teams that could be good fits for Watkins. At the top of the list? You guessed it, the Rams.
"The Rams could move off the No. 2 pick they have from Washington," Kiper wrote. "But
a year after drafting
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/15786/tavon-austinTavon Austin
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/15786/tavon-austin, they could still use an elite perimeter receiver to challenge for balls in the air and stretch defenses over the top."
It remains to be seen just how much interest the Rams have in Watkins or any top receiver after moving up to spend the No. 8 pick on Austin a year ago and drafting a total of four wideouts in the past two drafts. But, as I've written here on multiple occasions, it would be in their best interests to give Watkins a long look.
As Kiper points out, the Rams have been lacking an elite perimeter receiver since the days of Torry Holt and Isaac Bruce. On the rare occasions in which one of those wideouts has been available, the Rams have not been in position to draft one. Assuming Watkins is one of those players, they are now finally in a draft spot at No. 2 where they could have a shot at him. It's also not out of the realm of possibility they could move down a couple spots and still nab him.
Regardless, Watkins should be a player the Rams give strong consideration to choosing as the draft approaches.
Interesting blurb on the Rams to WR Sammy Watkins.
http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-rams/post/_/id/4853/morning-ram-blings-watkins-to-declare
Morning Ram-blings: Watkins to declare
ST. LOUIS -- As Clemson wide receiver Sammy Watkins repeatedly abused the Ohio State Buckeyes in the Orange Bowl on Friday night, my Twitter feed exploded with St. Louis Rams fans clamoring for the team to select him in this year's NFL draft.
On Sunday afternoon, reports surfaced that the Rams will indeed have that opportunity as Watkins is poised to declare for the draft. According to our draft analysts Mel Kiper Jr. and Todd McShay as well as most of the other draft pundits out there, Watkins instantly becomes the most desirable receiver in the draft.
Kiper provided further analysis of Watkins' draft stock in this
"The Rams could move off the No. 2 pick they have from Washington," Kiper wrote. "But
a year after drafting
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/15786/tavon-austinTavon Austin
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/15786/tavon-austin, they could still use an elite perimeter receiver to challenge for balls in the air and stretch defenses over the top."
It remains to be seen just how much interest the Rams have in Watkins or any top receiver after moving up to spend the No. 8 pick on Austin a year ago and drafting a total of four wideouts in the past two drafts. But, as I've written here on multiple occasions, it would be in their best interests to give Watkins a long look.
As Kiper points out, the Rams have been lacking an elite perimeter receiver since the days of Torry Holt and Isaac Bruce. On the rare occasions in which one of those wideouts has been available, the Rams have not been in position to draft one. Assuming Watkins is one of those players, they are now finally in a draft spot at No. 2 where they could have a shot at him. It's also not out of the realm of possibility they could move down a couple spots and still nab him.
Regardless, Watkins should be a player the Rams give strong consideration to choosing as the draft approaches.
pantherclub
Footballguy
Watkins is one of the best if not the best college wideouts I have seen in the last 10 years.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I've got the 2nd and the 5th picks coming up in a 2QB league. Talk to me fellas? Keep or move them?
Donnybrook
Footballguy
Vikings and Rams should trade 1st round picks. Rams could take Watkins at 8 and Vikings would not need to reach as much at 13. They could get Nix or a LB there.
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pantherclub
Footballguy
something tells me when you start drafting receivers in the top 10 in back to back years that's a good way to set your franchise back. Especially considering you traded up for Austin last year and you oline is in shambles.
Quez
Footballguy
I agree, but it is safe to say Tavon Austin isn't a true #1 WR. I think he was drafted high last year for his versatility and special teams value. To get the maximum potential out of a guy like Austin I think you need another WR to help open things up.
Quez
Footballguy
Most people think Watkins may not be available at 8. Vikings fans may just need to accept another year of Ponder/Cassel/Freeman
snogger
Footballguy
Freeman's gone.. Wouldn't mind Cassell being resigned to play mentor/possibly start the season as the starter while a rookie learns..
The only way I don't see the Vikings drafting a QB in the 1st round is if Bridgewater, Manziel, Bortles & Carr are gone.
If that happens, then I could see them trade down, get some extra picks.
Possibly "reach" for Mettenberger later in the 3rd or 4th round.. Up until he blew out his knee many thought he was a late 1st to early 2nd round pick.
pantherclub
Footballguy
I am not sure thats a good strategy at all to burn a top 8 pick on a special teams guy that you know isnt even a #1 wr. From what I saw of the Rams this year left me thinking that their Oline is a disaster and qb play was affected because of it. They may want to build from the inside out instead of acquiring fancy weapons. I could be totally wrong though about their oline.
Maybe the Rams weren't just drafting Tavon, they got the whole Austin family?
####### Cam Cameron
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Mosely, Mack, Watkins or maybe Lee to the Bills will all be ok with me.
A QB would be great, but the Bills seem locked into Manuel and I don't think Bridgewater or Manziel will be there anyway.
A QB would be great, but the Bills seem locked into Manuel and I don't think Bridgewater or Manziel will be there anyway.
I thought the Rams offensive line was hurt by injuries this year, but they don't seem to be in shambles. Didn't Jake Long help solidify things?
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
I'd want in on Bridgewater, especially if he is drafted by a coach that will run some sort of version of a pistol offense. He can thrive in that system. If he doesn't he'll probably be as boring as RG3 was this year in a traditional offense. He's like a better, more polished McNabb to me. He'll probaby be gone at by the 2nd pick in a 2qb draft tho.
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
Nicks?
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
It's early, Bracie.I don' t think any QB is drawing the sort of interest that would constitute some team moving up. Their is no Andrew Luck or even an RG III in this group. The guy that teams would move up for is DE Jadeveon Clowney.
Interesting blurb on the Rams to WR Sammy Watkins.
http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-rams/post/_/id/4853/morning-ram-blings-watkins-to-declare
Morning Ram-blings: Watkins to declare
ST. LOUIS -- As Clemson wide receiver Sammy Watkins repeatedly abused the Ohio State Buckeyes in the Orange Bowl on Friday night, my Twitter feed exploded with St. Louis Rams fans clamoring for the team to select him in this year's NFL draft.
On Sunday afternoon, reports surfaced that the Rams will indeed have that opportunity as Watkins is poised to declare for the draft. According to our draft analysts Mel Kiper Jr. and Todd McShay as well as most of the other draft pundits out there, Watkins instantly becomes the most desirable receiver in the draft.
Kiper provided further analysis of Watkins' draft stock in thisInsider piece. In it, Kiper identifies some teams that could be good fits for Watkins. At the top of the list? You guessed it, the Rams.
"The Rams could move off the No. 2 pick they have from Washington," Kiper wrote. "But a year after drafting Tavon Austin, they could still use an elite perimeter receiver to challenge for balls in the air and stretch defenses over the top."
It remains to be seen just how much interest the Rams have in Watkins or any top receiver after moving up to spend the No. 8 pick on Austin a year ago and drafting a total of four wideouts in the past two drafts. But, as I've written here on multiple occasions, it would be in their best interests to give Watkins a long look.
As Kiper points out, the Rams have been lacking an elite perimeter receiver since the days of Torry Holt and Isaac Bruce. On the rare occasions in which one of those wideouts has been available, the Rams have not been in position to draft one. Assuming Watkins is one of those players, they are now finally in a draft spot at No. 2 where they could have a shot at him. It's also not out of the realm of possibility they could move down a couple spots and still nab him.
Regardless, Watkins should be a player the Rams give strong consideration to choosing as the draft approaches.
You have been saying that from the beginning. Bortles, Manziel or both absolutely will draw interest at the #2 slot. Just speculating, but I think STL would like to move down 2-3 spots (CLE might be perfect), add a pick or two (you are right, the top of the 2014 QB class won't fetch a king's ransom like 2012, but I think you have sold short what is possible, the truth is probably somewhere in between - maybe a first in 2015, which Snead already alluded to, or a second and third this year, on top of the 1.4 of course... don't forget that a 2015 first is probably only valued like a 2014 second), and still land Watkins, Matthews or maybe Greg Robinson.
Looking forward to seeing Robinson tonight, and RB Mason, who if the Rams could get him in the third or fourth, would make a good complement to Stacy, who has a very physical, punishing style (sometimes to himself, too!). Hyde would make a bigger, bruising complement, and former Fisher RB and fellow Buckeye alum Eddie George has raved about him, but not sure they want to spend a second on a RB. But if they scoop up an extra second, that is the kind of "luxury" pick they could make. The NFC West is a brutal, nasty division that could be a war of attrition in the coming years, they will need another RB. Fisher loves to run, in TEN he spent a first and couple seconds on RBs Lendale White, Chris Henry and Chris Johnson in a several year period.
Fisher mentioned the team needs to score more points, I think it will be a focus in this draft. The defense is young and inconsistent, but have a lot of pieces in place. The DL is one of the best, led by Defensive Player of the Year candidate Quinn. With Laurinaitis and Ogletree they have one of the best fronts sevens in the league. Two of their three first rounders were spent on defense in 2012-2013, as well as a relatively high second on Janoris Jenkins. Chris Long was a second overall pick. Laurinaitis a high second. SS McDonald and starting CB Trumaine Johnson were third rounders. They spent a lot of free agent dollars in 2012 on CB Finnegan (too much in his case, OOF, they need to either cut him or he gets a severe salary hair cut) and DT Kendall Langford, one of the defense's most I proved players this season. They need a safety, currently the most gaping hole on the defense, and will get one, probably in the first or second round. If STL can get Watkins and Greg Robinson in the first, I would be fine with passing on consensus top safety Clinton-Dix, and gettting somebody like Pryor in the second. Assuming Finnegan can no longer be counted on, who reportedly played with an eye orbital fracture but looked like shell of himself prior to that, they may want/need an upgrade at starting or at least nickel CB. Verner of TEN is a free agent I think, and was a Pro Bowler, that would be great if Fisher brings him into the fold like he did Finnegan, due to the former connection.
Some Rams fans are clamoring for a LB like Mack or Mosley in the first round, but that makes no sense to me (as good as they are) to burn a high pick in what will be a two down role... UNLESS they intend to move on from Laurinaitis. But he is a respected team leader, just 27 i think, and like Chris Long, was reupped to a $10 mill per year extension recently. Dunbar was serviceable, and even if he moves on in free agency, was himself a cheap gree agent. The position is fungible and increasingly commoditized. Not LBs like Laurinaitis and Ogletree, but the two down variety. And they have Dunbar's replacement on the roster already of needed. Former Miami blue chip safety recruit UFA Ray Ray Armstrong was special teams demon this year (after getting over the penalty yips early), and while undersized, they may be grooming the OLB conversion project for the role.
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Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
These QBs are going to drive mock drafters crazy. I just did one that had Carr and Bortles out of the 1st entirely. Decided that wasn't right and they then both went top 10.
jurb26
Footballguy
I have that problem every year. Because QB demand is so high there are always guys I see unfit for the 1st or top 15 that have to be placed there. Not really isolated to this year IMO.These QBs are going to drive mock drafters crazy. I just did one that had Carr and Bortles out of the 1st entirely. Decided that wasn't right and they then both went top 10.
pantherclub
Footballguy
Johnny Football is all business
http://www.tmz.com/2014/01/06/johnny-manziel-florida-state-national-championship-two-women-video/
http://www.tmz.com/2014/01/06/johnny-manziel-florida-state-national-championship-two-women-video/
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Sammy is the one I want (faster and more explosive than Evans, better size and power than Lee). That said, I'm cool if they decide they want LT like Matthews/Robinson more. But that is why I'm keeping my fingers crossed they prioritize Watkins (and don't trade TOO far down), than get the LT (or safety?) with the second first rounder.
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snogger
Footballguy
So wait
..... a college kid, with a chance to hit 2 for 1, should just pass it up and go to church 
pantherclub
Footballguy
Didnt we hear the same thing about Matt Leinart? Ryan Leaf? Kerry Collins I dont recall RG3 or Luck doing stuff like this. If you dont think its a red flag then we just disagree.So wait
This is certainly not a positive.So wait
pantherclub
Footballguy
No lie. The kid simply doesn't give a ####.This is certainly not a positive.So wait
jurb26
Footballguy
You're right, he doesn't give a crap that people are jealous of him pulling tail.No lie. The kid simply doesn't give a ####.This is certainly not a positive.So wait
pantherclub
Footballguy
Nailed it. You are all over it.You're right, he doesn't give a crap that people are jealous of him pulling tail.No lie. The kid simply doesn't give a ####.This is certainly not a positive.So wait
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snogger
Footballguy
This is certainly not a positive.So wait
I think he is doing what we all wish we could have done at his age.. does he have a chance to be another Ryan Leaf? 
At the same time, with the right coach and mentor, he could be the next Fran Tarkenton..
only time will tell and I still would Love to see him handing off to Peterson, throwing to Patterson, and causing the opposing defense headaches as he plays Roadrunner to their coyote .. beep.. beep
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I don't know. For all the motivation crap the media has been shoving down about Clowney, there seems to be much more evidence of JFF not having his head in the right place.This is certainly not a positive.So wait
At the same time, with the right coach and mentor, he could be the next Fran Tarkenton..
only time will tell and I still would Love to see him handing off to Peterson, throwing to Patterson, and causing the opposing defense headaches as he plays Roadrunner to their coyote .. beep.. beep
Obviously the Vikes take him if he is there at #8.
That said, this type of stuff does not reflect well on him. Many a talented player has not lived up to his potential due to excessive partying.
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2014 NFL Mock Draft: Blake Bortles No. 1 to the Texans makes sense
By Dane Brugler | NFLDraftScout.com Senior Analyst
January 6, 2014 7:19 pm ETMore 2014 NFL Draft: Mock Drafts
By Dane Brugler | NFLDraftScout.com Senior Analyst
January 6, 2014 7:19 pm ETMore 2014 NFL Draft: Mock Drafts
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
They do have an extra first round pick, which is kind of like found money, taking Watkins AND a LT aren't mutually exclusive propositions, and I would make a case the OL isn't in shambles, but I'll return to that point.
If Watkins grades higher than the LTs, than I don't like the idea of a positional reach, that isn't good either. STL took LT bust Jason Smith with a very high first rounder not too long ago. Though I did think Matthews (or Greg Robinson) would be very good selections, but again, there will be LT options with the second first round pick.
Snead came from ATL, where they already had Roddy White, one of the best WRs in the NFL, and paid a HUGE price to land Julio Jones (must be the second biggest trade after RGIII in the past half decade or so?). They had holes on OL, on defense, but they prioritized adding another playmaker to take their offense to the next level. I haven't heard anybody question that move, now that Jones looks like one of the top 3-5 WRs in the game. Many people think DET, even with Calvin Johnson, needs to upgrade the complementary WR (they have tried, spending second rounders on the Boise State WR that unfortunately is out of the league, as well as Broyles, who had his second ACL tear?), and that is the missing piece of the puzzle for the offense. The Rams added Holt when they had Bruce. Vikings added Moss when they had Carter. Colts added Wayne when they had Harrison. If the CLE doesn't draft a QB or the Rams don't beat them to it, they may add Watkins despite having Josh Gordon, the best WR in the league in 2014. The Bucs could add him, despite having Vincent Jackson and just re-signing Mike Williams to an extension. The league is trending in a passing direction. Like Quez noted, Austin* isn't a WR1-type, though he could be more dangerous and a terror with a weapon like Watkins that defenses are forced to account for and game plan around.
People say STL has spent a lot of high picks on WRs in recent years, but I don't think so. Givens was a fourth, Bailey and Pettis (who would likely be gone if they add Watkins) were thirds, Quick was a high second, but he looks like he was severely overdrafted in retrospect, is having a Jerome Simpson kind of career arc, had a disappointing 18 receptions in year two and was passed up by Bailey (who reminds me of Hines Ward and Derrick Mason and should start next year, even if they add Watkins, leap frogging Givens as well). Austin was a high pick, but the only first round WR in fifteen years since Holt. So you could say if they add Watkins, they are making up for lost time. Having Watkins, Bailey, Austin and Cook would put a lot of pressure on defenses. The NFC West is the equivalent of the wood chipper scene in Fargo
, defenses like SEA and SF are ridiculous (not to mention ARI, close to three top five defenses in the division... and if STL, the youngest team in the league and about to get younger if players like Wells and Dahl go, matures and fulfills their potential, they can be a top 10 defense). STL ran at will the first time at home against SEA, but otherwise were throttled by SEA away and both games against SF. When they can't run, they are dead in the water. They need to have a more balanced offense, and Watkins makes everybody better... not only the receiving weapons, but he will even relive pressure on Stacy, a sobering thought for opposing defenses.Back to the OL, Aaron is right, Jake Long did stabilize the OL. At this point he is probably a better run blocker than in pass protection, but Fisher wants a dominant running team, and that is another way to take pressure off the passing game, and put pass rushers back on their heels. Unfortunately he did have a torn ACL, but his 2014 money is essentially guaranteed, so he isn't going anywhere (2015-2016 could be different?). He won't be winning too many break dancing contests, but OL don't have to cut as hard as RBs and WRs, so maybe that will make for a more favorable prognosis. And again, hopefully they come out of the first round with Watkins AND Robinson/Lewan/Cujo/Erving. So a rookie LT could be Long insurance in the interim, a long term heir apparent, and slide to RT or guard initially. RT Barksdale played very well. He was a blue chip recruit for LSU that could have gone to a lot of schools, and was drafted in the third round by OAK. They made a mistake by letting him go, he could start for a lot of teams (though that said, STL OL positional coach Paul Boudreau seems to have a knack for coaching up these kind of hidden gems, and that has helped with his development). Saffold, who has been hurt a lot and was somewhat of a disappointment at LT and than shunted to RT with the addition of Long, was a revelation on the inside at RG, and that now looks like his most natural pro position. He may leave in free agency, especially if he can command a big contract as a LT, but he has been hurt a lot, so that is a big question mark in my eyes if a team will overpay. Hopefully they can re-sign him even if he tests the market, but rams beat reporter Jim Thomas gave it about a one in three chance? They could also draft a top interior OL like Baylor's Richardson or Stanford's Yankey. The Rams redshirted Outland Trophy winner and high fourth rounder Barret Jones after a foot injury, who played every position on the line for an Alabama team that won multiple championships, and he is viewed as a future starter at center or guard. This doesn't even account for starters Scott Wells (solid center played well this year, but missed like nine games in 2012 and four or so this year, is approaching his mid-thirties and they could recoup something like $4 million in cap money by cutting him... but he could be back?) and Harvey Dahl (also pretty solid, at RG, it was his injury that led to Saffold being moved to RG, also nearing mid-thirties, and could yield four million in cap savings if cut). IF saffold isn't retained, I could see the team bringing back one if not both of the interior OL vets. The weak link on the OL would be LG, where they employed a platoon or rotation (one guard was former first round bust Chris Williams, he wasn't terrible).
Once Stacy was inserted into the starting lineup, and the offense found its identity by committing to the run game, and especially when Saffold moved to RG, the OL was dominant at times (200 yards against SEA, 250+ against CHI), and were close to a top 5 rushing team, i think. So while they probably could be better in pass protection, a powerful running game takes pressure off the passing game, and that is why I would say the OL looks in good shape, is not in shambles, tatters or disarray. Though this presumes Long's knee injury isn't a career-ender (i think he is about 28, like chris long?), it would admittedly help if they can retain Saffold as he gives a lot of flexibility, though it won't be catastrophic or disastrous if they can't, expecially if Barrett Jones is as good as advertised (he actually has a longer reach than Saffold, and could definitely play guard as well as center, he did both in college, as well as LT, i think?)... and of course, they can draft a top five LT, and/or a top three interior OL.
* Austin. Was it a mistake to move up for him? If so, even more reason to take a true WR1-type like Watkins. I do think when surrounded by Watkins, Bailey and Cook he could present a nightmarish matchup problem. If given a do-over, i have to admit, they could have traded DOWN instead of up, scooped up extra pick/s, KEPT THEIR SECOND and used it on stud guard Larry Warford (their target in the trade down with ATL from 1.22 to 1.30 if Ogletree was gone) and STILL landed somebody like Patterson or ex-Tennessee teammate Hunter. But every team could drive themselves crazy with these kinds of do over scenarios (they could have had Alshon Jeffery instead of Quick with the 2012 second, Mike Williams instead of Mardy Gilyard with the 2010 fourth and Desean Jackson instead of Donnie Avery with the 2008 second?). I do think he was horrifically misused at the beginning of the season, and you got a taste of what he could do in the back-to-back IND and CHI games (i think only player besides Gale Sayers and Jim Brown to have four combined 50+ yard TDs in two consecutive games - which could be flukey, or maybe not... he looked like a pocket Barry Sanders in space against Oklahoma with 344 rushing yards and 572 all purpose yards in one of the best collegiate individual performances i've ever seen). If used properly, I think the jury is still very much out, we don't really know how good he can be, and I wouldn't write him off yet. He also had a long ST TD wiped out early by a penalty (STL was much better in the second half of the season), as well as a long receiving TD, and he also had a lot of drops (as did Cook) though seemed to have natural hands at West Virginia, with something like 115 receptions his last season. So he could have significant upside.
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pantherclub
Footballguy
Nice post bob but it just doesnt feel right if the Rams take wr at #2 especially given all their past wideout picks in the previous drafts. As I said you need to build your team from inside out. It just seems like the Rams would learn from their mistakes and stop taking receivers, they need big bodies and potentially another franchise qb. I am not sure what adding Watkins would do for this team.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Okay so now Manziel reminds me of Broadway Joe. 
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
If the Lions followed this advice they'd have passed on Calvin. Not that Watkins is Calvin but missing on a position is no reason to stop selecting that position.
pantherclub
Footballguy
ummm. The reason they are in the position they are in is precisely because they got cute and picked wideouts. They missed out on some core players by going Williams and Rogers. Both had huge question marks coming out.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
1 - I don't think they take him at 1.2, they trade down, maybe add a 2015 first and a 2014 third, take him at 1.4?
2 - They can take a LT at 1.13, possibly engineer a trade up from there. They can take an interior OL later. How many OL do they need in the draft, 4-5?
3 - If you read the OL breakdown, we have to agree to disagree they are in shambles. Jake Long should be back, Saffold could be, Wells and Dahl could be? Like I said, they were close to a top 5 running attack. They have an outstanding OL position coach who doesn't need five first round OL to suceed (it has been pointed out that Fisher has never taken a first round OL in 18 years, but I do think that was part fluke/happenstance - they were going to take Warford in the first this year if Ogletree was gone).
4 - Should the Lions have learned from their mistakes in drafting Rogers, Williams and BMW and not have taken Calvin Johnson, in effect positionally reaching for a lower graded position?
5 - QB talk is verboten for me, I'm not going there anymore, but if you don't belive me, look it up, see what Fisher and Snead have said, team "insiders" like Nick Wagoner, Bernie Miklasz, Jim Thomas, Brian Burwell, etc. They are not expected to take a QB high. It would be stunning if they don't take a backup/developmental upgrade like Murray, Mettenberg, Boyd in the third or fourth. People are obviously free to think what they want, maybe they are right, we will find out soon enough, I am restricting myself to all the information I have, and it become far too contentious to go any further.
6 - What would Watkins do for STL? Remember, Snead came from ATL. What did Julio Jones do for the Falcons? Sure, you could say the QB is better and was able to use him more effectively, but he looked a lot more human when Jones was out all but five games in 2014 (they are drafting sixth overall, and Jones absence for most of the season has to be considered a big factor). Ryan would not have looked as good with pedestrian WRs like Austin Pettis and Brandon Gibson in his first three seasons in the league. Put White, Jones and Gonzalez in STL the last three seasons, there aren't nearly as many questions about the QB in STL. That is all I'm saying.
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Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Interesting. When I plugged Bortles into the QB model these were the two comps I got -- depending on which estimated measurables I used.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Right, but what is done is done, it is in the past. Saying not getting Watkins would be like saying don't take Calvin Johnson. Without generalizing to the 2014 draft (YET!
), can you see how it would have been a mind boggling mistake to pass on Calvin Johnson. Not that Andy requires an interpreter, I think the point was clear, but just to reiterate, that was the implication and take home message.What is your team? Ask yourself if it would be better with Watkins. Other than ATL, pretty much every team could answer that in the affirmative, which should tell you something (unless some people are down on Watkins for some reason, but that would be an outlier/contrarian position... he is one of the best WR PROSPECTS with AJ Green and Julio Jones SINCE Calvin Johnson, including Blackmon, Bryant and Demaryius Thomas). Guys like Quick, Givens, Pettis aren't even remotely in the conversation with Watkins. To not take him because they may have whiffed on earlier picks, would be, in my opinion and respectfully, compounding an earlier mistake. That isn't a recipe for getting better.
Maybe drafting an OL will be a better move. But they won't not draft Watkins because they missed on a fourth rounder like Givens and a third rounder like Pettis. I'm certain of that.
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Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Teams don't miss because they pick the wrong position. They miss because they take bad players.
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