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2016-17 NBA Thread: Finals are over, please go away (1 Viewer)

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Short Corner said:
It was one possession.  Warriors called TO to get the substitution.
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One too long then if we're going to complain about the little man getting thrown to the ground by a dirty player. I thought it was 2 last night.

Pretty positive more than that for game 1.

 
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Da Guru said:
That is why I don`t get people complaining about Durant.

KD paid his dues and earned the right to chose where he wants to play.  One thing about this series that I did not realize is that KD might be the best player in the NBA. The guy is awesome.
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It's kind of hard to tell when he was with OKC because Westbrook as a player is a very ball dominate player who didn't want Durant being the Alpha IMHO. Now that Durant is playing with guys who are MORE WILLING PASSERS I think you are finally seeing just how good Durant is. I've been saying for yrs I thought Durant was a way better overall player then LeBron but we just never see it do to the roster in OKC doesn't allow him to play his game mostly Russ. People will say well Durant has great players around him. In fact I saw a debate on Facebook of a few friends debating if LeBron doesn't have the help Durant has. People forget Wade won LeBron his first tile and Ray Allen won another. Right now James has two guys who avg over 20 PPG a former 3 Point contest winner and most accurate 3PT% in a NBA season. Like it's been said Warriors dominated last year but Barnes went 1 for and Green got Suspended. Replace Barnes with Durant and you have the puzzle completed. 

It's funny you mention the Durant hate because a few friends I don't know if they are James Apologist or what think Durant doesn't get enough complaining for what he did compared to lebron. Let's just put it this way fair or not LeBron made a whole production about his next place of employment with 1 hour TV special thrown in there when everyone and their mother knew he was going to South Beach. At the very least people were upset with how LeBron handled the whole thing. Hence why I think he got so much hate for it. 

 
tjnc09 said:
No one seems to care that Dahntay Jones intentionally threw Curry to the ground.  That type of play is okay as long as the Warriors aren't the ones doing it.
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No different then Chris Anderson with Mia when LeBron was there body checking Chicago players in the playoffs a few yrs ago. Whatever team Lebrons on his teammates have open season on Players. If that was Draymond the NBA wouldn't be quick enough suspending him for the rest of the series. 

 
fantasycurse42 said:
Lebron is just starting to look old, talking strictly appearance. He is still the best in the game, but I think he is getting close to a strong drop off in 1-2 years. Father time gets everyone, and he has been at the top of the game for over a decade. 
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Lebron's biggest issue is he's not what you'd call known as a shooter either consistently at least from 15 ft and beyond. Shooting is the last thing to go from a basketball player which is why I see some media people saying a team signing JJ Reddick this offseason to close to $20M despite being 33 I believe. They argue shooting is the last to go. Knock on wood but The NBA Gods in terms of health have been very good to LeBron his career. Can't really name a huge injury where he broke anything or tore anything that kept him out a whole year or even half. 

 
fantasycurse42 said:
I was saying just appearance, like actual physical appearance. He is def still the best in the game and it shows on the court, but his actual appearance, last night looking at him while he sat, he actually looked old and tired, never really seen him looking like that. He's just been going so hard, playing so physical, for so long... I think his greatness is going to start dropping off within the next 2 years. 

And again, he played awesome. 
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I see what your saying but are you expecting a massive drop off at once or gradually? With him playing the way he has I wouldn't be shocked if the drop off was a massive sudden one nor if it was gradual. 

 
Bull Dozier said:
BS.  There were plenty of possession on offense where he was perfectly content to sit in the corner and let Kyrie make something happened.  There was a long stretch where that seemed to be their offense.  The commentators were even pointing out that LeBron was too passive on offense and pointed out that more of the possessions need to be going through him.

This was before the route started in the third quarter, so they were still in the game.
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I've heard this so many times about LeBron from the commentators in games that LeBron teams have lost I'm surprised no one has ever really talked about it extensively. Even in Mia if Wade or Allen or someone got hot LeBron was more then happy just to sit back and let said player do it. When the player started to cool off or whatever you'd hear the same comments of LeBron being too passive and needing more possessions to go through him instead of being lackadaisical and such

 
Weebs210 said:
The play Curry double dribbled on?
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Every player double dribbles. In fact Isiah Thomas has been traveling all year with no call. And everyone palms the ball. We could even get into all the flopping and acting like a snipper is in the building too if you want. There's a guy on Cleveland fairly well known for it. 

 
SHIZNITTTT said:
Last night after the double dribble by Curry that has Lebron dancing all over the floor and Curry drove into the lane for a lay up had me thinking.   Lambeer, Ewing, Mourning, Parish would have slammed Curry in the paint, or at least would have fouled him pretty hard for coming into the lane.  Today we have Love basically watching his teammate Lebron get made to look like a sucker and watched Curry drive right past him in the lane for an easy 2.   Times have changed.  Maybe for the better?  
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Nah as much as I love Curry I'd have loved to have seen him slammed in the paint. Make him think twice about going back in there. Also Love has also been viewed by a lot of people as way too soft inside especially for his size and not tough enough in the paint against bigger players as well. Times have changed but if it was allowed one or a few teams would probably of tried to play Jordan Rules on LeBron. You basically pointed out a very good point about why guys back then don't take these players seriously. The Physical play really isn't there like it use to be. 

 
Jayrod said:
As a former player and ref, the thing that is absolutely driving me scream-at-the-TV-insane is the illegal screens.

How in the heck are you supposed to guard anyone when they can move like that as you try to go around?  I hate it so much just typing this out is pissing me off.  It isn't basketball if you are allowed lead blockers.
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The Warriors are the very best at a lot of things and this is one of them. This is a compliment, I really don't understand how they are able to do it. Flat out amazing.  It's not even always the movement...watch how they come up to set a pick, extend their arms/hands into the defenders shoulder area from the back or side (essentially push the defender slightly), and quickly roll away. If the dribbler times it right they have a clear advantage and the so called screener is usually open too. Watch ZaZa on the first few possessions of every game. Game 1 was out of control from the get go. And then they are grabbing quite a bit too. 

I understand every team sets bad screens and it can't be called all the time. Thompson gets away with plenty of moving screens for the Cavs, he also sets many good ones. What needs to happen is clean up all the extra garbage that they let these players get away with. It's sad there is no emphasis on this. Then a moving screen not being called wouldn't always so bad. It was comical that RJeff was called for the first illegal screen during game 1 in the 3rd quarter. 

 
STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
On the pump fake? I saw that too. To be fair I called traveling on >50% of the players last night. 
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I think you could say that about every NBA or College game today. I would say it happens way more then 50% of the time. Time or an offensive foul for a push off or whatever. 

 
msudaisy26 said:
Every good team in the league lives on their shooting. This isn't the 80's or 90's. The best teams shoot the 3, they shoot it well and they shoot it often. 

Cleveland doesn't need a guy clogging up the lane. Kanter, and Lopez would be worse than Thompson for this team because they are horrible on defense and Lopez is a bad rebounder. 
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Are we talking Brooke Lopez here because he's kind of added some Range in the last year or two and consistent with it. 

 
Bruce Dickinson said:
LeBron signaling for a double-dribble call when it happened might have gotten in the way of using fundamentally sound defensive technique.  But I'll defer to others on that.
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That's an issue with a lot of players. More concerned about complaining not getting a call then playing D or just playing till a whistle. Was watching a soccer game other day where a team thought they had a call in the box for a Penalty a few players looked at the ref, complained and two even ran over directly in front. Meanwhile play continues on the other end and the other team almost scored because their opponent was more concerned complaining to the official rather then getting back and playing D. 

 
Jayrod said:
As a former player and ref, the thing that is absolutely driving me scream-at-the-TV-insane is the illegal screens.

How in the heck are you supposed to guard anyone when they can move like that as you try to go around?  I hate it so much just typing this out is pissing me off.  It isn't basketball if you are allowed lead blockers.
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Yep my dad gets the same way when it comes to soccer and watches it on TV seeing things being done. I think i spend more time with Basketball these days calling out all the missed calls then actually trying to watch and enjoy the game. 

 
pollardsvision said:
I think I'm done with the NBA for a while.

As an aside, I don't really watch hockey, but this Nashville thing has an Oracle/Golden State from the StackJack days feel to it right now. Damn, I miss that team.
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Did you here that Murray Chant the other night? Deafening the sound. Almost sounded like an old Soccer chant or chant from some college.  

 
Bobcat10 said:
The Warriors are the very best at a lot of things and this is one of them. This is a compliment, I really don't understand how they are able to do it. Flat out amazing.  It's not even always the movement...watch how they come up to set a pick, extend their arms/hands into the defenders shoulder area from the back or side (essentially push the defender slightly), and quickly roll away. If the dribbler times it right they have a clear advantage and the so called screener is usually open too. Watch ZaZa on the first few possessions of every game. Game 1 was out of control from the get go. And then they are grabbing quite a bit too. 

I understand every team sets bad screens and it can't be called all the time. Thompson gets away with plenty of moving screens for the Cavs, he also sets many good ones. What needs to happen is clean up all the extra garbage that they let these players get away with. It's sad there is no emphasis on this. Then a moving screen not being called wouldn't always so bad. It was comical that RJeff was called for the first illegal screen during game 1 in the 3rd quarter. 
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Why take away something that gives more offense. That's what casuals care about scoring and big plays in sports. Its like the NFL and safety rules with defenders and such. No they are lazy rules instead of putting money into better safety for players and figuring out more ways to create more scoring and less Defense. As much as we will complain about this the NBA won't do anything about it since then they'd be taken tons of potential points off the board each game and could lose fans. 

 
msudaisy26 said:
He is okay, but still a horrible defender and rebounder. 
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Still think he's better then Thompson for the Cavs though. Another Cavs problem is like Bosh Love is way out of position and never used correctly. You saw when lebron left and Bosh was healthy he looked like Tor Chris Bosh. 

 
DJackson10 said:
Still think he's better then Thompson for the Cavs though. Another Cavs problem is like Bosh Love is way out of position and never used correctly. You saw when lebron left and Bosh was healthy he looked like Tor Chris Bosh. 
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Thompson is having a bad series, but the Cavs aren't losing because their offense is bad, making their defense worse would have made these games more lopsided not closer. 

 
DJackson10 said:
Yep my dad gets the same way when it comes to soccer and watches it on TV seeing things being done. I think i spend more time with Basketball these days calling out all the missed calls then actually trying to watch and enjoy the game. 
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Maybe try therapy.  You know, since you aren't an NBA ref but seem fixated on making calls for NBA games.

 
Alex P Keaton said:
Maybe try therapy.  You know, since you aren't an NBA ref but seem fixated on making calls for NBA games.
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Nope I'm more about playing by the rules and when theres blatant calls not being called that should anger any fan no matter which team you root for and when it all comes down to it, they won't fix it because it creates more scoring which the avg sports fan wants lots of

 
DJackson10 said:
Nope I'm more about playing by the rules and when theres blatant calls not being called that should anger any fan no matter which team you root for and when it all comes down to it, they won't fix it because it creates more scoring which the avg sports fan wants lots of
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It really isn't something in my control, so it would be weird to fixate on it.  But hey, go for it.  I just try to enjoy the games.

 
Bobcat10 said:
One too long then if we're going to complain about the little man getting thrown to the ground by a dirty player. I thought it was 2 last night.

Pretty positive more than that for game 1.
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I think Kerr was caught of guard when they waved the white flag with nearly four minutes remaining.  Most people were.  Seems like an odd thing to get your panties in a bunch over.

 
OK, I'm confused.  I was watching PTI yesterday, and Wilbon actually argued that Curry didn't double dribble.  He didn't deny that it touched his other hand, but that he "wasn't actively dribbling it with both hands."  How can a guy who makes his living following, writing about, and talking about sports be so clueless about one of the first rules they teach little kids when they learn to play a sport?

 
DJackson10 said:
I've heard this so many times about LeBron from the commentators in games that LeBron teams have lost I'm surprised no one has ever really talked about it extensively. Even in Mia if Wade or Allen or someone got hot LeBron was more then happy just to sit back and let said player do it. When the player started to cool off or whatever you'd hear the same comments of LeBron being too passive and needing more possessions to go through him instead of being lackadaisical and such
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Well, FTR, I would disagree with the assessment in the hypothetical situation that if another player is hot that LeBron shouldn't be passive.  If Kyrie is knocking everything down in ISOs, then LeBron should stay out of the way.  If Love is on fire, he should feed the beast.  If they go through stretches where the offense isn't cohesive, and no one can buy a bucket, the best player on the planet can't sit in the corner and watch.  

 
Dedfin said:
I know this has bled into college too.  Do you ref HS?  How is this called in your area?
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I ref HS.  We call illegal screens.  Player has to be stationary and stay within their frame.  It is a little looser with the better boys teams, but still...I see the off ball action in the NBA game and I'm just constantly saying "foul" in my head.  There has been a big emphasis on freedom of movement in our association.

A foul is any illegal contact that affects a player's speed, rhythm, balance or quickness.  That goes for all players in any spot on the floor.  We also enforce the new hand check rules.  We call a lot of fouls early in the season, but it makes things easier as the season progresses.  Players learn and play accordingly.

 
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Jayrod said:
I ref HS.  We call illegal screens.  Player has to be stationary and stay within their frame.  It is a little looser with the better boys teams, but still...I see the off ball action in the NBA game and I'm just constantly saying "foul" in my head.  There has been a big emphasis on freedom of movement in our association.

A foul is any illegal contact that affects a player's speed, rhythm, balance or momentum.  That goes for all players in any spot on the floor.  We also enforce the new hand check rules.  We call a lot of fouls early in the season, but it makes things easier as the season progresses.  Players learn and play accordingly.
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As a coach I wish they would call it more but I also tell my guys that if we don't get called for two illegal screens per game, we aren't being aggressive enough on the picks.

 
Short Corner said:
I think Kerr was caught of guard when they waved the white flag with nearly four minutes remaining.  Most people were.  Seems like an odd thing to get your panties in a bunch over.
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fyi, I was replying to one of our great minds in this thread complaining about Curry getting touched to the ground by Jones.  My panties are just fine.

 
Bull Dozier said:
OK, I'm confused.  I was watching PTI yesterday, and Wilbon actually argued that Curry didn't double dribble.  He didn't deny that it touched his other hand, but that he "wasn't actively dribbling it with both hands."  How can a guy who makes his living following, writing about, and talking about sports be so clueless about one of the first rules they teach little kids when they learn to play a sport?
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That is what happens when the network you work for just wants hot takes and click bait. 

 
Short Corner said:
As a coach I wish they would call it more but I also tell my guys that if we don't get called for two illegal screens per game, we aren't being aggressive enough on the picks.
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I think it is a good idea to test the crew you are dealing with.  Push the envelope until you find out where the line is.  Every ref sees things a little different and even game to game will change based on the teams involved and how the crew is assembled.  I wouldn't tell anyone that in my area, but if I ever became a coach, you can bet I would have my kids finding out where the line was every game before backing down.  Coaches, fans and players like to whine about "consistency" with officials, but show me consistent basketball and players and I'll show you consistent officiating.  Every game is different.

That said, the NBA is a different animal.  The problem is, you can't fix things during the Finals.  It wouldn't be fair to the players.  They need to address this stuff in the off-season, send out points of emphasis and follow up with how the call the regular season.  I don't see why the allow the illegal screens other than just wanting to see more points scored.  But then they let defenders beat the crap out of the offense on a post up move.  There seems to have been a concerted effort to make every game about perimeter scoring.

 
Bobcat10 said:
fyi, I was replying to one of our great minds in this thread complaining about Curry getting touched to the ground by Jones.  My panties are just fine.
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It was a dirty play by a dirty player.  Don't pretend it wasn't because he wears the jersey of your favorite team.

 
DJackson10 said:
I understand the the NBA quite fine. Like I said I watch my team but I have no interest in watching other games that honestly I can predict the outcome on. Betting on the NBA is playing with house money quite frankly 
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If I could have either a penny for every pseudo-NBA fan who claimed ZOMG TEH GAMES ARE SO OBVIOUSLY FIXED!, or the combined gambling profits of all those fans betting on the NBA... I'd take the pennies and it wouldn't be close.

 
tjnc09 said:
It was a dirty play by a dirty player.  Don't pretend it wasn't because he wears the jersey of your favorite team.
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Not sure what I'm pretending.  I never said it was or wasn't dirty.  Making things up again?  

All I said was get your players out of the game promptly.  If you don't find fault in your coaches then I don't know what to say to you. 

That said, looked to me there was as much flop involved as there was dirty.  You're acting like he got abused to the floor.  That was maybe the nicest dirty play of all time.

 
tjnc09 said:
:lmao:  What are you even talking about?
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You can't reason with him. He either either believes everything is mutually exclusive or he is just trying to deflect anything bad said about the Cavs. 

Jones could go out in game 3 with a night stick hit Draymond in nether region, whack Curry in the back of the head, and take out Durant's knee and he would just post back that Zaza sets dirty screens or Zaza took out Kawhi. 

 
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Bobcat10 said:
Not sure what I'm pretending.  I never said it was or wasn't dirty.  Making things up again?  

All I said was get your players out of the game promptly.  If you don't find fault in your coaches then I don't know what to say to you. 

That said, looked to me there was as much flop involved as there was dirty.  You're acting like he got abused to the floor.  That was maybe the nicest dirty play of all time.
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:lmao:  

 
msudaisy26 said:
You can't reason with him. He either either believes everything is mutually exclusive or he is just trying to deflect anything bad said about the Cavs. 

Jones could go out in game 3 with a night stick hit Draymond in nether region, whack Curry in the back of the head, and take out Durant's knee and he would just post back that Zaza sets dirty screens or Zaza took out Kawhi. 
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Cry more guy.

 
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