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2016-17 NBA Thread: Finals are over, please go away (2 Viewers)

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:lmao: rotoworlds spin on these articles. The whole ####### 'news' is their spin. Just awful.   :lmao:

Multiple teams view Derrick Rose as a potential trade target, according to ESPN's Ian Begley.
While Carmelo Anthony rumors continue to swirl, ESPN reports that Rose is attracting some attention from other teams in need of point guard help. Rose has been putting up impressive numbers of late. Over the Knicks last four games, Rose is averaging 19.0 points (on 57.9 percent shooting), 5.3 assists and 4.5 rebounds. If he is traded, his fantasy value would likely take a hit, as Rose would probably see fewer minutes and a reduced usage rate on a new team.
 
Source: http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york/knicks/post/_/id/66202/should-knicks-blow-it-up-or-pursue-playoffs-phil-jackson-needs-to-decide
 
 
Bobcat10 said:
Tough way to end the game and I've seen much worse not called.  The ref had to think the contact was more solid, and maybe it was, I couldn't tell (but he did make contact).  If you think about it, he had no chance at blocking the shot, not a "smart" play to reach out like that.
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It's not a smart play to contest a jumper if you can't block it? 

 
Bull Dozier said:
It's not a smart play to contest a jumper if you can't block it? 
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I didn't say not to contest it.  But it helps to not make unnecessary contact.  He could have been more vertical to avoid the foul call.  Butler got a great look against a guy that thinks he played amazing defense on the play.

 
Bobcat10 said:
I didn't say not to contest it.  But it helps to not make unnecessary contact.  He could have been more vertical to avoid the foul call.  Butler got a great look against a guy that thinks he played amazing defense on the play.
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I can't watch with sound at work.  What I would like to know is when the whistle is audible.  It certainly looks like the ref does not signal a foul until the shot is missed (it appears to be on my fuzzy view that the ref looks to the basket, sees a miss, then calls a foul).

Regardless of that, the "unnecessary contact" is the whole debate.  It certainly seems like he barely touched him, if he did at all, which I wouldn't categorize as unnecessary contact.

 
:tinfoilhat:

The bonus of the Jimmy Butler call is that now the Celts remember what calls the superstars get.  Butler to the Celts makes more sense than any other trade rumor this weekend.  I think a lineup of..

Thomas

Smart

Butler

Johnson

Horford

Can contend with the Cavs and Raps.  Hopefully that call makes Ainge pull the trigger on sending the Brooklyn pick. 

Bulter for Brooklyn pick, Young and a future first is a worthwhile haul for both teams. 

 
Boston said:
So you are ok with a hard-fought game being decided on that call?  It is a regular season game so I am not going to go crazy over it but IMO there was not enough going on there (and it looked like less in real time) to put a guy on the line with .9 seconds to decide the game...
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You have a flawed premise first of all.  The game wasn't decided on that call.

Second of all, as has been pointed out multiple times in this thread, contact on the shooting arm during the shot is always a foul.

 
The Pistons and Magic have discussed a trade that would send Reggie Jackson to Orlando for D.J. Augustin and Jeff Green, league sources say.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 
Capella said:
The Pistons and Magic have discussed a trade that would send Reggie Jackson to Orlando for D.J. Augustin and Jeff Green, league sources say.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Before reading Lowe's article about how Jackson has lost two steps I would have thought that was a great deal for Orlando. 

 
Jayrod said:
You have a flawed premise first of all.  The game wasn't decided on that call.

Second of all, as has been pointed out multiple times in this thread, contact on the shooting arm during the shot is always a foul.
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I doubt these Celtics fans were complaining when Paul Pierce got the same call as Butler did 10/10 times for nearly a decade.

 
Max Power said:
:tinfoilhat:

The bonus of the Jimmy Butler call is that now the Celts remember what calls the superstars get.  Butler to the Celts makes more sense than any other trade rumor this weekend.  I think a lineup of..

Thomas

Smart

Butler

Johnson

Horford

Can contend with the Cavs and Raps.  Hopefully that call makes Ainge pull the trigger on sending the Brooklyn pick. 

Bulter for Brooklyn pick, Young and a future first is a worthwhile haul for both teams. 
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I think the Celts + Butler could even hang with the Wizards.  But it's interesting that you still wouldn't put them on that level.

 
Come on... Butler on the Celts is worth more than Ibaka on the Raps.  I think Jimmy with the Celts can win the 1st place in the East.  Head to head with the Cavs will be fun and I wouldn't discount the Celts with Smart AND Butler vs lebron.

 
Long Ball Larry said:
Detroit needs the cash to sign KCP.
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They'll sign KCP either way. They can go over the cap to keep him and Gores said he's willing to pay luxury tax. And he's their only good player.

Only way KCP leaves is if he pulls a Greg Monroe and takes the QO just to ensure he can get the hell out of Detroit after next season. Which wouldn't be a bad idea.

 
Fun topic for the weekend.  Who was the best NBA player to never be an all star?

The answer is obvious, but lets see who can guess it without research...

 
The problem with the Pistons trading Jackson for Jeff Green's expiring contract is that it's an admission by SVG that the current build of the team is a failure. Which would mean he should be canned. And if he's going to get canned at the end of the season, you might as well keep Jackson and let the next guy in charge figure out what to do with him. The opportunity to dump his salary for nothing should still be there.

I love SVG's straight-shooting personality, but the Pistons have the league's 3rd-highest payroll, a sub-500 record, chemistry issues, young players who aren't developing and a franchise player in Drummond who is actually regressing. Unless they show some serious signs of life after the all-star break, it's time to move on.

 
Spartans Rule said:
The problem with the Pistons trading Jackson for Jeff Green's expiring contract is that it's an admission by SVG that the current build of the team is a failure. Which would mean he should be canned. And if he's going to get canned at the end of the season, you might as well keep Jackson and let the next guy in charge figure out what to do with him. The opportunity to dump his salary for nothing should still be there.

I love SVG's straight-shooting personality, but the Pistons have the league's 3rd-highest payroll, a sub-500 record, chemistry issues, young players who aren't developing and a franchise player in Drummond who is actually regressing. Unless they show some serious signs of life after the all-star break, it's time to move on.
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Wow.  I think running SVG out of Detroit would be a big mistake.  

 
Short Corner said:
Yep.  They call it tight for a reason.  
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I think its crap.  Call it tight or let them play... it's always the opt out for refs.  Players IMO just want one standard.  Let them play during the final minute has been the default for YEARS.  That call, after the buzzer was junk...

 
Max Power said:
:tinfoilhat:

The bonus of the Jimmy Butler call is that now the Celts remember what calls the superstars get.  Butler to the Celts makes more sense than any other trade rumor this weekend.  I think a lineup of..

Thomas

Smart

Butler

Johnson

Horford

Can contend with the Cavs and Raps.  Hopefully that call makes Ainge pull the trigger on sending the Brooklyn pick. 

Bulter for Brooklyn pick, Young and a future first is a worthwhile haul for both teams. 
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I would love Butler to the C's but I think it would cost much more than that...if Chicago deals him they need to be overpaid...he's a legit star...if he actually becomes available I do see the C's going all in on him...my dream scenario would be getting him without giving up Smart, Brown and this year's Brooklyn pick...that is probably not realistic because if I was Chicago those are the three pieces I would be targeting...

 
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Boston said:
I would love Butler to the C's but I think it would cost much more than that...if Chicago deals him they need to be overpaid...he's a legit star...if he actually becomes available I do see the C's going all in on him...my dream scenario would be getting him without giving up Smart, Brown and this year's Brooklyn pick...that is probably not realistic because if I was Chicago those are the three pieces I would be targeting...
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As a Chicago fan, I'm more for blowing it up than the front office is.  But Wade and Rondo are almost worthless and Butler won't win anything during his prime in Chicago.  The Brooklyn pick could change the franchise and I think that alone is worth it.  Adding a couple rotational players sounds fair to me.

 
Max Power said:
As a Chicago fan, I'm more for blowing it up than the front office is.  But Wade and Rondo are almost worthless and Butler won't win anything during his prime in Chicago.  The Brooklyn pick could change the franchise and I think that alone is worth it.  Adding a couple rotational players sounds fair to me.
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Since you are a Bulls fan what are your thoughts on Butler?  The whole thing with Rondo seemed really odd...what was the story on that?  Last question...do you think they would actually trade him?

 
Boston said:
Since you are a Bulls fan what are your thoughts on Butler?  The whole thing with Rondo seemed really odd...what was the story on that?  Last question...do you think they would actually trade him?
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Per Butler the front office is shady.  He doesn't like Hoiberg because he is too soft (Very True) and thinks they did Thibs wrong (Probably true). 

Seems like its either Butler or Hoiberg.  Probably both should go. I love Jimmy.  He was a great Bull, but he needs something more. The front office is too cheap to cut fred.  Its a bad situation.

 
Capella said:
Yea I think jackson kinda sucks but they really aren't giving up anything either. 
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If he has lost a step, or two, it's certainly worth the shot he comes back close to normal next year.  It's a physical thing and a dedication thing.  Nobody knows about the former, I don't know about the latter but I'm sure someone does.

 
Max Power said:
Come on... Butler on the Celts is worth more than Ibaka on the Raps.  I think Jimmy with the Celts can win the 1st place in the East.  Head to head with the Cavs will be fun and I wouldn't discount the Celts with Smart AND Butler vs lebron.
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think the love for the Celts may be a wee overboard. I have only seen a few games this year, and i know the love for the team definitely has merit, but watching that Sixers game the other day either the Sixers are literally a better version of Ilyasova away from being there, or there is as much congestion at the top o the eastern conference as their is for the cellar for the NBA. I know the foul in the Boston-Chicago game was a rough call, but watching Isaiah in the 4th Q of the Sixers game it seems like his move half the time is to simply run into the lane full speed and wait until he gets a call. 

 
Boston said:
I would love Butler to the C's but I think it would cost much more than that...if Chicago deals him they need to be overpaid...he's a legit star...if he actually becomes available I do see the C's going all in on him...my dream scenario would be getting him without giving up Smart, Brown and this year's Brooklyn pick...that is probably not realistic because if I was Chicago those are the three pieces I would be targeting...
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our of curiosity, is it hopeful optimism with Jalen or do you guys see something there? he seems to have raw talent an athleticism, but i am not sure his ceiling is ever more than simply just a starter. Of course i am sure i have read fan posts about him then i have actually seen him play, so wondering from a fan of the team is there something actually there, or just hopeful optimism?

ETA: if i had to compare to the Sixers, is he like a TJ McCollum. A great teammate, and a spark for the entire team, but i am not sure he would ever be a main player on the team, and most likely just a spark off the bench (that is if i take my Sixers goggles off)

 
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modogg said:
think the love for the Celts may be a wee overboard. I have only seen a few games this year, and i know the love for the team definitely has merit, but watching that Sixers game the other day either the Sixers are literally a better version of Ilyasova away from being there, or there is as much congestion at the top o the eastern conference as their is for the cellar for the NBA. I know the foul in the Boston-Chicago game was a rough call, but watching Isaiah in the 4th Q of the Sixers game it seems like his move half the time is to simply run into the lane full speed and wait until he gets a call. 
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I can't full on back isaiah here.  I'm really not a believer, but his stats beg to differ.  He is #1 in the NBA in fourth quarter points.  That is something...

My view of the Celts comes from a Chicago fan.  On paper they are 3rd or 4th in the east.  I think the Raptors are better and they are in the running with the Wiz.  

Adding Bulter to the Celts puts that team as the clear #2 IMO.  Thomas, Butler, and Horford can be a force. The Celts as they are will be a second round out.  Is that really worth what they land in the lotto?

 
modogg said:
our of curiosity, is it hopeful optimism with Jalen or do you guys see something there? he seems to have raw talent an athleticism, but i am not sure his ceiling is ever more than simply just a starter. Of course i am sure i have read fan posts about him then i have actually seen him play, so wondering from a fan of the team is there something actually there, or just hopeful optimism?

ETA: if i had to compare to the Sixers, is he like a TJ McCollum. A great teammate, and a spark for the entire team, but i am not sure he would ever be a main player on the team, and most likely just a spark off the bench (that is if i take my Sixers goggles off)
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Small hands and NO court sense. Hops, hoopdrive, tenacity, but not smart tenacity nor Smart tenacity. KJ McDaniel floor, Iguodala ceiling

 
Max Power said:
I can't full on back isaiah here.  I'm really not a believer, but his stats beg to differ.  He is #1 in the NBA in fourth quarter points.  That is something...

My view of the Celts comes from a Chicago fan.  On paper they are 3rd or 4th in the east.  I think the Raptors are better and they are in the running with the Wiz.  

Adding Bulter to the Celts puts that team as the clear #2 IMO.  Thomas, Butler, and Horford can be a force. The Celts as they are will be a second round out.  Is that really worth what they land in the lotto?
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That really is the huge question of the NBA these days. One of the bad things Hinkie has brought to all of us is that everybody uses the term "tank" way too much, but in all honesty it is without a strategic way to not get stuck in that limbo. Only think Hinkie did wrong is that he wasn't ashamed of it and basically made the NBA look silly with really only 2 options on how to have a team in the NBA. You see plenty of teams now not trying to win every night, and most are doing it for advantageous reasons to avoid that 1st round beating. Lakers are doing whatever they can to get in top 3 of the draft, and honestly i can't think of anybody who would really argue against that (even with the trade connotations taken out of it).

NBA just seems in a strange place, and none of the other major sports teams seem to have this issue (NFL came a little close with the Colts when they got Luck). Not sure how you fix it either. lucky for the NBA 50% of the fans and others don't care enough about not getting stuck in that limbo so i guess they will keep doing what they are doing. A mediocre team is seen as more valuable than a team that is able to build from the core up and have a very high ceiling

ETA: and didn't mean to apply this to the Celts specifically, more the general NBA. Ainge has worked wonders up there and has that team looking like championship contendors with not a bad floor potential either

 
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modogg said:
That really is the huge question of the NBA these days. One of the bad things Hinkie has brought to all of us is that everybody uses the term "tank" way too much, but in all honesty it is without a strategic way to not get stuck in that limbo. Only think Hinkie did wrong is that he wasn't ashamed of it and basically made the NBA look silly with really only 2 options on how to have a team in the NBA. You see plenty of teams now not trying to win every night, and most are doing it for advantageous reasons to avoid that 1st round beating. Lakers are doing whatever they can to get in top 3 of the draft, and honestly i can't think of anybody who would really argue against that (even with the trade connotations taken out of it).

NBA just seems in a strange place, and none of the other major sports teams seem to have this issue (NFL came a little close with the Colts when they got Luck). Not sure how you fix it either. lucky for the NBA 50% of the fans and others don't care enough about not getting stuck in that limbo so i guess they will keep doing what they are doing. A mediocre team is seen as more valuable than a team that is able to build from the core up and have a very high ceiling
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reshuffling the %'s of the draft might help.  I dont have the answer, but tanking is going on. Maybe some % based on the next closest team. 

 
Not sure why, but i turned on this All-star celebrity game and have watched for last 30 minutes or so. 2 quick thoughts:

1) Not sure there is a worse thing associated with any all star game then this event

2) Might just be, but it is kind of depressing including the WNBA ladies in this game. The ladies have legit talent and seem more than capable, and they march them out there to play with fatty Master P., etc. I get it that it is probably good for them overall showing their talent when there isn't a ton of fan appeal as is (seems to be working for me), but is kind of depressing at the same time

ETA: and very well could be my age,  but i don't know 70% of the "celebrities" they have in this game

 
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I'd give both Jersey picks for Butler & Gibson or Brown & this year's for Butler. Won't happen. I was screaming for Ainge to max offer Jimmy early in his RFA yr and Bulls were dawdling. Danny thinks he drafts better than he does and sees adding a Butler alum this summer instead of a Butler now and drafting two low-cost "stars" while he pays off the core that comes contract due will give him a super team. He's wrong. Still & all, Celts are tremendously fun to watch and anyone who thinks the Leprechaun ain't a top tier star ain't paying attention. 

 
wikkidpissah said:
I'd give both Jersey picks for Butler & Gibson or Brown & this year's for Butler. Won't happen. I was screaming for Ainge to max offer Jimmy early in his RFA yr and Bulls were dawdling. Danny thinks he drafts better than he does and sees adding a Butler alum this summer instead of a Butler now and drafting two low-cost "stars" while he pays off the core that comes contract due will give him a super team. He's wrong. Still & all, Celts are tremendously fun to watch and anyone who thinks the Leprechaun ain't a top tier star ain't paying attention. 
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I'd make this deal every day of the week for Chicago.  It would make Boston crazy good for no cost.  

Any chance Ainge thinks both the Cavs and GS are just too much for any roster in the near future?

 
rodg12 said:
The Sixers
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TobiasFunke said:
And probably the Nuggets.  I'm about 99% sure the Wiz would throw at least a first round pick at them for Barton. Three years of cheap Crowder is fine but I'm guessing they'd rather have Gallinari/whatever they can get for him + the pick, even if its in the 20s.
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You guys suck.

 
Max Power said:
I'd make this deal every day of the week for Chicago.  It would make Boston crazy good for no cost.  

Any chance Ainge thinks both the Cavs and GS are just too much for any roster in the near future?
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Celts with Butler are one lunchpail lowposter from going toe2toe with any of em. At least three of Crowder, Smart, AB & Butler will be on the floor all the time and that's a perimeter as unprecedented defensively as GS is offensively.

Danny envisions this team plus his two '16 Europicks, two Jersey picks and 1 star signing as forming a 48-minutes-of-hell that supercedes the multi-star juggernauts or sumn likat.

 
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