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2016-17 NBA Thread: Finals are over, please go away (2 Viewers)

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Clv has multiple players on their squad that should be dismissed after this season

Shumpert, Jefferson, Smith, etc

 
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GS 12/20 from 3, Cavs 5/18 from 3.

That's your game in a nutshell.

LeBron has been phenomenal and Kyrie has had some spectacular drives but they can't stop Durant, Steph or Klay...at all.

 
Capella said:
Because it would be impossible to chase one of those two around for 44 minutes and then do everything on offense. 

It's not a video game. 
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I think taking Durant out of the game would give the Cavs a better chance.  Taking defence off isn't working. 

 
If I'm GS I work more off Curry picks.  His defender is hugging him so he is essentially setting a double.  Make CLE adjust and look for the slips/pops.

 
Ghost Rider said:
They are playing well? No one can make a shot except James (and Irving late in the half on some drives to the hoop). 
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Yeah just cause the score is close doesn't mean clv is playing well.  I feel like they are hanging around about to get knocked the #### out

 
Niles Standish said:
LeBron might not have quit on the Cavs that 1 game you're talking about.  If I remember right it was a Game 5 when Pierce was still close to his prime.  LeBron was obviously better than Pierce.  But when he has to defend a great scorer he can't catch his breath on D and that Cleveland team whatever year that was 2010 maybe? had no other offensive weapons so LeBron had to defend one of the better scorers in the league and carry the offense.  It wasn't a good game, but I think it's entirely possible we're talking exhaustion not quitting.  Not to mention Pierce at the time was one of the few players who was physically up to at least pestering LeBron at that time (smaller but quick and strong).

And again you're missing the point.  Just because Jordan was a score first guy doesn't mean that's the only type of player that can be considered the best of all time.  A lot of people out west still say Magic was the best of all time (he definitely wasn't score-first), I think Bill Russell should still be in the conversation personally, he certainly wasn't score-first.  Each era has their guy and 20-30 years from now Jordan will be mostly forgotten like Wilt/Russell are.  Jordan is partially the undisputed best of all time because he was the best when a lot of the current sports writers etc were 10 years old or whatever age you're most impressionable.  I'd assume since you think that everything was better in the 80s 90s basketball-wise that you were in that sweet age spot when Jordan was at his best.  The game was different in yesteryear.  It doesn't really mean it was better.  The NBA is a smart league, they changed rules to make it more watchable for the majority of people or at least they think it helped viewership.

When the kids who are 10-20 right now are our sports writers/commentators LeBron will probably be the undisputed best all time because they'll have grown up on him.  Just like you did with Jordan.  If you remember Jordan was not even close to the best of all time conversation until he was around 30.
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That could be a problem Butler has had similar issues but I wouldn't say Butler ever quit on Chicago. LeBron just seemed to flat out give up even on Defense. This was also the last year he was with Cleveland before going to Mia. You could say if I were him why bother giving my all when I'm still gonna get paid this offseason and moving elsewhere. I never bought for a minute his story he decided that day of The Decision where he was going. Anyone who follows the NBA and all knew he was going to Mia. 

I'm not saying because Jordan was a score first guy here. MJ people argued could probably be the best PG of all time if he wanted too. Remember those few games he played PG I believe he recorded  16 Assists. 24 games he averaged 30.4 pts, 9.2 rebs, 10.7 asts & 2.4 stls. Between the dates of Mar 24th-April 14 he had a triple double in 10 of the 11 games.  3 days after his 16 he had 17. So it's not like Jordan couldn't be a playmaker and pass first guy either. I think people forget just how good of a rebounder and passer he was. Everyone always talks about his scoring and D but he was a very good Rebounder and passer for his position at the time. Yeah each era has a guy for sure. However I don't think its fair for the media to be saying so and so is the next (insert top 5 player of all time here) all the time. It's not fair to the player or fans. It's more of a ploy to get higher TV ratings. There was a great article on Yahoo debating if Simmons really was the great top prospect he was or if he was just a ploy by media and NBA people to get fans of teams not in the post season interested in the lottery and the draft with such a weak class. 

Yeah rules are different some of them are good while others are bad. I'm just not a person who enjoys the Wariors type games where both teams score over 22oPTs per game. I get the Flagrant fouls and hand checking. Player safety and such because yeah some of those fouls back then could put a guy in a hospital however the offensive advantages guys have today is really ridiculous. You can't even breath on a guy without a foul and perimeter defense just isn't there. I actually have Wilt over MJ for reasons Wilt physically had the game change. Rules got changed because of how talented and how much bigger he was then everyone else. MJ is a very close 2nd do to the fact he helped Stern and the NBA globalize the game to what it is today. I liken it to Hulk Hogan making Wrestling popular in the early 80s mid 90s for the exception MJ was a far better talent then Hogan and there's a ton of guys today who are just better ring skills wise then him. However Hogan still gets credit for what he did for that business and that accounts for something. Just because people will deal someone is the best doesn't mean they are. Honestly there's really no fair way to compare eras. I know posters here have said someone came up with some sort of rules formula or something and I've yet to talk to them or look at it so I can't comment on it. However I will say MJ would beat LeBron 1v1 in their primes do to the fact that MJ could just trash talk his way to the win and LeBron just isn't that sort of player 

 
fantasycurse42 said:
No, but the conversation would shift from laughable to he is starting to close in on Jordan.
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Agree but when one guy is perfect in Finals record wise it's a little hard for Bron to shake that give his own record. I believe it's still a losing record or at least .500 I can't remember the exact record I think 4 for 7 or something in finals. 

 
DJackson10 said:
Agree but when one guy is perfect in Finals record wise it's a little hard for Bron to shake that give his own record. I believe it's still a losing record or at least .500 I can't remember the exact record I think 4 for 7 or something in finals. 
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So LeBron would been better off losing to Detroit in 2007 and 2014, 2015 and 2017 not even making the finals because his team wasn't the favorite to win the championship while Jordan was the favorite all 6 times ?

So if LeBron was 3-1 that look better to you than being 3-5 ?

 
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bananafish said:
In previous years game 3s have been an Achilles heel for the Warriors, a fact they seem to be acutely aware of this year. I've heard that after game two of the Finals last year they were yukking it up and comparing playing the Cavs to playing regular season games while this year they have been all business and deadly serious. I also think 4-4-4-4 is a real thing and they would love to rub the Cavs' nose in it. I've also heard rumors of a hack-a-Bron strategy if the game is close. I doubt it happens but I would be gleeful.

People are saying the Cavs should slow down the pace and grind it out a-la the last two years. The fact is they don't have the quality of defense to do that anymore and the Warriors defense only gets better as possesions get later in the shot clock. Trying to outgun the Warriors may seem like a weird strategy but it's the way this Cleveland team has been built (and Richard Jefferson is a shell of his 2016 self). All the pieces they've added have been offense-first and they set the regular-season record for 3s in a game earlier this year (along with ignoring defense entirely). One thing they may do is post up LeBron more but that will also tire him out faster. They've been completely gassed by the fourth quarter in the first two games by trying to run with the Warriors but at this point that's the bed they've made.

In short I don't think there is any real winning strategy here. Sure, the spectacular Cavs/horrible Warriors game is still in the deck but it has inside straight sort of odds. I put a few units on Golden State -3.5 to go along with my winning-the-series wagers for whatever that's worth.

It's also notable that the Cavs have not yet signed their GM to a new contract. Dan Gilbert has gone through four general managers in his years owning the team, never offering any of them a second contract. I think David Griffin has done a masterful job given the constraints he's under but there's not a lot of moves left to be made because they've signed all LeBron's aging buddies to long-term albatross contracts. They can try to see what trading Kevin Love will garner but it's hard to imagine the return being a huge upgrade. They are who they are at this point.

If LeBron wins another chamionship it won't be in a Cleveland uniform. He's a free agent in 20019 and I think he bails.
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I agree. Those contracts will hinder what that team will be able to do. Yeah LeBron will ail in 2019 for sure. 

 
DJackson10 said:
Agree but when one guy is perfect in Finals record wise it's a little hard for Bron to shake that give his own record. I believe it's still a losing record or at least .500 I can't remember the exact record I think 4 for 7 or something in finals. 
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This is such a weak argument, yet it is one people love to use.  Yeah, Jordan was 6-0 in the finals...and what about all of those other seasons.  Oh yeah, he wasn't good enough to get his team even to the finals. 

 
Ghost Rider said:
This is such a weak argument, yet it is one people love to use.  Yeah, Jordan was 6-0 in the finals...and what about all of those other seasons.  Oh yeah, he wasn't good enough to get his team even to the finals. 
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Don't forget about him leaving basketball to play baseball. He knew he wouldn't make the finals those 2 years.

 
Weebs210 said:
Deron Williams....dude has a mental block so far in the finals
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He's not even close to the Williams in Utah and hasn't been for awhile. But that's the talent and guys you get when you don't have cap flexibility. You either get bad players or named guys well past their primes. 

 
DJackson10 said:
He's not even close to the Williams in Utah and hasn't been for awhile. But that's the talent and guys you get when you don't have cap flexibility. You either get bad players or named guys well past their primes. 
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At least he could hit some shots in earlier rounds though.

 
tonydead said:
I think taking Durant out of the game would give the Cavs a better chance.  Taking defence off isn't working. 
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Lebron wouldn't take him out and that's a ridiculous idea to have Lebron be less on offense. His creating is their only chance. 

 
Ghost Rider said:
This is such a weak argument, yet it is one people love to use.  Yeah, Jordan was 6-0 in the finals...and what about all of those other seasons.  Oh yeah, he wasn't good enough to get his team even to the finals. 
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That's also a weak argument because people use the straight finals or finals appearances overall with LeBron. It's because of how weak the East has been. There's really only been a handful of teams who legit could've stopped or played LeBron well enough in those years. Mia Years most thought a healthy Chicago Rose team would be a task for Mia. Unfortunately the Bulls never stayed healthy and we only saw a glimpse of what could've been between those two teams I believe it was the 2011 Confidence Finals. Cleveland with Kyrie was still a terrible team till LeBron got there. Mia was a decent avg #8-7 seed before LeBron got there. Adding the best player in the game in such a weak conference kind of helps a bit. 

 
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