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2016 ACC Basketball (closed - see 2017 thread) (7 Viewers)

Welp, this weekend certainly seemed to break for UNC.  Get the easier semi-final and arguably miss the two teams posed to give them the most trouble (KU and UVA, not to mention UK).  Here is to hoping Buddy puts on a Kemba/Melo type performance.  

 
Welp, this weekend certainly seemed to break for UNC.  Get the easier semi-final and arguably miss the two teams posed to give them the most trouble (KU and UVA, not to mention UK).  Here is to hoping Buddy puts on a Kemba/Melo type performance.  
SU held its own at UNC, but yes, all things being equal it worked out well for UNC so far.  

UNC did a great job on the offensive boards the last 10 min of that game.

 
Not sure why you are calling me out.  Oregon had a great season and tournament.   I'm glad some of you ACC guys that were so dismissive of Oregon getting a 1 seed saw how deserving they were.   When a few of you admitted you never saw Oregon play this year it all made sense.  
North Carolina does not deserve a 1 seed IMO.  In fact, if the do get a 1 seed,  I hope it is out west.  Easier path to final four through NC.
 
I just noticed on Wiki that the next two ACC Championships are being held in Brooklyn, New York...is that right?
Yep. Just another shot at Gary Williams at Maryland - now we'll play the tourney anywhere. and also another poke at the Big East - we took your teams, your Saturday night ESPN final, and now we're in New York. I guess they are likely in discussions with MSG at some point - though that's purely my own speculation.

Our joke (just to get it out of the way now) - if you think UNC-UVa in DC was lit, wait until Duke-Cuse play in the final in Brooklyn.

 
Just Win Baby said:
Yes, we call them ACC schools, because, you know, they are in the ACC. Many of us don't like it but have been forced to accept it. Maybe you should, too. 
and more to the point, those schools have decided to call themselves ACC teams. 

 
Unc is firing on all cylinders right now. Don't see anyone beating them.

Brice johnson is just insanely good right now. Basically automatic from 12 to 15 feet.

 
Plorfu said:
Pitt hired their coach. Everyone's mad.

Kevin Stallings
Pretty underwhelming choice.  I'm pretty sure the first thought every Pitt fan had was "isn't that the jerk who was so vindictive and petty when Jeter wanted to transfer?"

 
Unc is firing on all cylinders right now. Don't see anyone beating them.

Brice johnson is just insanely good right now. Basically automatic from 12 to 15 feet.
And dude makes sure he gets the rebounds that are anywhere within his reach.  Even when he looks boxed out or out of position...he's able to get to them.

 
And dude makes sure he gets the rebounds that are anywhere within his reach.  Even when he looks boxed out or out of position...he's able to get to them.
He is one of those rare players that makes it feel like UNC has six players on the court because it he is every where.  His block on Ferrell from IND was amazing. He was the only UNC defender with a slight possibility of making a play as the other four were starting their transition to offense.  Not only did he make the block, but he did it when they were up 14 points where a lot of players would have just given up from the corner where Johnson started at.

 
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So UNC's road to the championship game is:

  • 16 seed
  • 9 seed
  • 5 seed
  • 6 seed
  • 10 seed
Have there been easier paths in the past? Not knocking them, they earned the #1 seed, which got them the first 3 games. At least they will have to play a 2 seed to win the title.

 
So UNC's road to the championship game is:

  • 16 seed
  • 9 seed
  • 5 seed
  • 6 seed
  • 10 seed
Have there been easier paths in the past? Not knocking them, they earned the #1 seed, which got them the first 3 games. At least they will have to play a 2 seed to win the title.
It is relatively easy based on seeds, but they've played some good teams. Providence, Indiana, Notre Dame, and Syracuse aren't exactly crappy teams. 2 ACC teams, a B1G, and a Big East team.

 
So UNC's road to the championship game is:

  • 16 seed
  • 9 seed
  • 5 seed
  • 6 seed
  • 10 seed
Have there been easier paths in the past? Not knocking them, they earned the #1 seed, which got them the first 3 games. At least they will have to play a 2 seed to win the title.
When you're a 1 seed and you survive it's almost more surprising if you don't get some breaks along the way. 

Duke is the most recent 1 seed to win a title of course- they had a semi-conventional path based on seeding in their region, although they didn't have to play any major conference teams. Then they drew a 7 seed in the semifinal while the other two 1 seeds faced each other and the more lightly regarded team won, turning Duke into a 50/50 proposition in the title game instead of maybe a 4 point underdog.

Before that it was Louisville in 2013; based on seeding they really only had to beat one other "elite" team to win it (Duke in the regional final).  After their 16 game and 8/9 game they got a 12 seed in the regional semifinal and then after the Duke win in the regional final they got a 9 seed in the Final Four and a 4 seed in the title game.

 
Brice Johnson will be on an active NBA roster this time next year?

I'm still seeing him rated as a second round pick, but that just can't be right... This guy has elevated his stock IMO, I could see him being a solid role player.

 
Duke in 2004: 16, 8, 5, 7 - lost in semis to #2 seed (UConn)

Florida in 2014: 16, 9, 4, 11 - lost in semis to #7 seed (UConn)

 
so, no? no examples of an easier path?
Depends how you define "easy."  If you total the seeds of the opponents for the last four rounds (every 1 seed plays a 16 and then the 8/9 winner), Louisville's 2013 path would be easier than UNC's potential path.  12 + 2 + 9 + 4 = 25; 5 + 6  + 10 + 2 = 23. 

ETA:  And how you define "path" I guess, whether you're talking journey to the final four, the title game or the championship.

 
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seed addition is good enough for me. just that Just Win's question was about path to the final game, not path to the title.

so i'd say Florida in 2014 had an easier path, but blew it.

 
It is relatively easy based on seeds, but they've played some good teams. Providence, Indiana, Notre Dame, and Syracuse aren't exactly crappy teams. 2 ACC teams, a B1G, and a Big East team.
Come on, they had to overcome a lot.  ;)  Had an ESPN columnist call for the first 16-1 upset in his outrageous prediction column, and Seth Davis tried to halfheartedly make the case, too. Had a writer call for Providence to win because they "had the two best future NBA prospects on the floor." Probably pretty evenly split at Sweet 16, but plenty of calls for IU or UK to win that game. I think Notre Dame was the first game where it seemed like everyone was going with UNC - finally joining Vegas.

I think Cuse has been the worst victim of this so far. Pat Forde called Middle Tennessee the next uber-Cinderella after beating MSU. Then after Cuse won, he reassessed MTSU as a "gift" for Cuse. 

 
seed addition is good enough for me. just that Just Win's question was about path to the final game, not path to the title.

so i'd say Florida in 2014 had an easier path, but blew it.
Sure, but that's some weird cherry-picking. Nobody talks about making the final game as an endpoint, the two endpoints of college basketball's postseason are making a Final Four and winning it all.

Not that it matters, of course.  I seriously doubt that when JWB reminisces about  State's run in 1983 he doesn't remember it quite as fondly because 10 seed Utah knocked out 2 seed UCLA in their bracket and 4 seed Georgia spared them a game vs UNC and Michael Jordan in the Final Four ;)

 
Brice Johnson will be on an active NBA roster this time next year?

I'm still seeing him rated as a second round pick, but that just can't be right... This guy has elevated his stock IMO, I could see him being a solid role player.
Admitted bias here, but I think Johnson and Brogdon seem like the kind of players that will slip to the bottom of the first and end up bench players on good teams - solid contributors for several years.

 
Not sure the point of "easy path" discussion... UNC has beaten every team placed in front of them by double digits. There isn't much bad to say about this group on the court - they're experienced, they have great size, and they play very well together. I like this team a lot!

My only real concern is what is behind the starting 5, outside of Hicks, there isn't much coming off the bench - somewhat concerning, just need to avoid foul trouble.

 
Not sure the point of "easy path" discussion... UNC has beaten every team placed in front of them by double digits. There isn't much bad to say about this group on the court - they're experienced, they have great size, and they play very well together. I like this team a lot!

My only real concern is what is behind the starting 5, outside of Hicks, there isn't much coming off the bench - somewhat concerning, just need to avoid foul trouble.
I think you're the only person questioning Carolina's depth. Being able to bring guys like Hicks, Britt, and Pinson off the bench is really nice. As well as another big body in Joel James.

 
So UNC's road to the championship game is:

  • 16 seed
  • 9 seed
  • 5 seed
  • 6 seed
  • 10 seed
Have there been easier paths in the past? Not knocking them, they earned the #1 seed, which got them the first 3 games. At least they will have to play a 2 seed to win the title.
1990 UNLV

16, 8 or 9, 12 (Ball State), 11 (Loyola) to get to Final Four.   Then 4 (Ga Tech) and 3 (Duke) in the Final Four.    So yes there has been an easier path.

 
So what changed for UNC from last year to this year?
They all got older and better.  JP tokoto is no longer around to give away 6 posessions a game by taking his horrific mid range jumper.

Berry took a nice frosh-soph jump and bryce went from being really good to a monster. Also, luke maye

 
So what changed for UNC from last year to this year?
Brice Johnson, Isiah Hicks and Joel Berry all made significant strides.

In terms of team play, one thing I think they improved is they went from "competent" to "good" in the half court to complement their outstanding transition game. Last year it seemed like if you could slow down the Heels by avoiding turnovers and hustling back on D you could stifle their offense. Now that strategy doesn't seem nearly as effective. Notre Dame went into a mega-slowdown late in the first, and rather than getting frustrated and out of rhythm the Heels just methodically used it to force them into less efficient possessions while still getting good shots on the offensive end.  They did the same thing to UVa in the ACC tourney final. I think I saw on twitter last night that they're undefeated in <65 possession games.

 
Agree with TLEF and Tobias. The main thing that has helped is just players gaining more experience. I don't think they're really doing anything differently from a schematic standpoint. Just playing smarter and guys playing better.

 
Brice Johnson went from good, to one of the top players in college this year. He has been a machine. Every single statistic of his has increased by a healthy percentage. I didn't expect this kind of dominance from the guy. 

The experience is obviously the biggest piece though. You've got two very talented/experienced Seniors leading the charge along with an extremely experienced Jr., and a highly experienced soph. Berry is the only guy on the floor that didn't log significant PT in the past. Now, they've had another year to gel - If they aren't cutting the nets down next Monday, it will be a huge disappointment IMO.

 
Sure, but that's some weird cherry-picking. Nobody talks about making the final game as an endpoint, the two endpoints of college basketball's postseason are making a Final Four and winning it all.

Not that it matters, of course.  I seriously doubt that when JWB reminisces about  State's run in 1983 he doesn't remember it quite as fondly because 10 seed Utah knocked out 2 seed UCLA in their bracket and 4 seed Georgia spared them a game vs UNC and Michael Jordan in the Final Four ;)
Agree it isn't an endpoint. It was facing 10 seed Syracuse in the F4 that really highlighted the easy path to the championship game. It was just a trivia question. As I said, I wasn't knocking UNC.

Regarding 1983, State had to beat #3 seed UNLV (#6 in final AP poll) and #1 seed UVA (#4 in final AP poll) to reach the championship game against #1 Houston (#1 in final AP poll), despite the breaks you mentioned. That was a much more difficult path than the others that have been mentioned in this discussion. Even Georgia was a #4 seed (#18 in final AP poll).

 
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Agree it isn't an endpoint. It was facing 10 seed Syracuse in the F4 that really highlighted the easy path to the championship game.

Regarding 1983, State had to beat #3 seed UNLV (#6 in final AP poll) and #1 seed UVA (#4 in final AP poll) to reach the championship game, despite the breaks you mentioned. That was a much more difficult path than the others that have been mentioned in this discussion. Even Georgia was a #4 seed (#18 in final AP poll).
And 5 seed Indiana was 12th in KenPom when the Heels played them in the Sweet 16. 10 seed Syracuse is currently 22nd.  And of course State's path was harder than the other teams we've listed, they were a 6 seed.

Of course UNC clearly got a break with an easier than average national semifinal matchup, but it's not their fault that UVA faltered, or that Michigan State got bounced, or for that matter that Xavier and West Virginia dropped out of the East bracket early.  All they can do is beat the teams that beat those teams. Which they've done handily thus far, winning every game by at least 14 points. They've turned the old adage into "all you can do is kick the ever-loving #### out of the teams in front of you."  And as you pointed out, you can take solace in knowing that they can't possibly get another break- the two potential opponents they'd face Monday if they're lucky enough to advance are the #1 and #5 KenPom teams (the Heels are #3).

 
Brice Johnson really has surprised the crap out of me.

The guy really stands out on a floor full of athletes.

The way he can quickly bounce and get airborne and stretch to get a block in air or rebound is truly eye-opening.

There were a couple moments where he reminded me of those paintings at the beginning of "Good Times" with the insanely elongated extremities.

Amazing, really.

 
Yeah, can't blame UNC for their relatively weak road (just like you couldn't blame Duke when people said the same thing in previous years). I have no doubts that they're more than worthy of their spot in the final 4. Most complete team in the country in a relatively down year.

In other news, it looks like Derryck Thornton is leaving Duke. Evidently his "camp" (probably his father, who came off as VERY hands on during the recruiting process) wasn't very happy about the way the season went. Apparently 26 minutes per game wasn't enough because he didn't start all the time and wasn't featured.

Sucks to lose a guy who would have been a real solid player in the future (although he was inconsistent this year and doesn't appear to be a great decision maker).  I think Frank Jackson is going to be an outstanding player, (College ready body. Great athlete, awesome scorer. who knows on d?)  but it sucks to know that they might be putting next year's machine in the hands of a freshman from Utah. Maybe Allen comes back and plays the point next year.

 
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So instead of starting at the point for a team that's going to be one of the favorites heading into the season, he's going to transfer and sit out a year.   Brilliant.

 
So instead of starting at the point for a team that's going to be one of the favorites heading into the season, he's going to transfer and sit out a year.   Brilliant.
Guess that further demonstrates his decision making acumen.

I liked the kid...thought he'd develop nicely.

 
Okay Duke guys, word on the GT board is Jeff Capel is interviewing tomorrow and expected to be offered the job.  Any truth to this?  Should I be happy about this?  I know he was really good one year at Oklahoma but that was Blake Griffin too.

 
Okay Duke guys, word on the GT board is Jeff Capel is interviewing tomorrow and expected to be offered the job.  Any truth to this?  Should I be happy about this?  I know he was really good one year at Oklahoma but that was Blake Griffin too.
I'd be surprised if there was anything to this.  For one, K's assistants haven't gone to other ACC schools. Two, he's the current heir apparent if they hire within the family.

i wouldn't be shocked if this was just him testing the waters to see where he really stands in the Duke heirarchy.

 
I'd be surprised if there was anything to this.  For one, K's assistants haven't gone to other ACC schools. Two, he's the current heir apparent if they hire within the family.

i wouldn't be shocked if this was just him testing the waters to see where he really stands in the Duke heirarchy.
From the looks of it, K could go another ten years.  That might be a long time to wait.  

 
and more to the point, those schools have decided to call themselves ACC teams. 
Yeah, the guy who led the charge at SU, Darryl Gross, has been relieved of his duties.  JB smiles a lot for ESPN via mechanical pullies, but his views are very well known and not hidden behind closed doors.  Who could blame him?  The BE is in his blood.   The pining for the BE lives on with most every other Orange BB alumn that shows up and supports the team.  They built that conference.  It's theirs.  And maybe 60% of the fans who are more nostalgic than pragmatic.  That 40% will show up every now and then and say to the 60%, "hey, embrace where we are in the ACC", etc.  But this stuff runs pretty deep. 

Someone mentioned UConn.  As an SU person I'd take their 2013-2014 NCAA Men's Basketball Championship in exchange for being in the AAC and/or the BE in b'ball and an independent in football or any other combination for the next decade.  In a heartbeat.  

I find it funny that people still are shocked in these threads when these little jabs are brought up.  They come from the heart and are not meant to disrespect the ACC-- which is a great conference with a great heritage.  Geez, just watch the 30 for 30 on the BE.  The ACC will have coaches, admin and fans that dislike being in this conference for the next 40+ years.  Get used to it-- embrace the resistance.

 
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Okay Duke guys, word on the GT board is Jeff Capel is interviewing tomorrow and expected to be offered the job.  Any truth to this?  Should I be happy about this?  I know he was really good one year at Oklahoma but that was Blake Griffin too.
Would you be ok with a Duke import?

 
How's his recruiting and can he coach?  
There are so many Duke HCs and assistants floating out there that it would be inaccurate to say that any one of them is getting in-line for the Duke job one to even two coaching changes from now.  

But we all look for elements of continuity in our coaches.  Of course that can go all wrong even when you think you have it i.e. Doug Marrone at SU.  

Nonetheless, you're saying Capel is a-ok by you as long as he can coach...and if he turns out to be a transient-- then so be it?

 
Main insider on one of the Duke boards think Capel will NOT take the GT job.

It seems like Capel is the HC in waiting unless Brad Stevens wants the job. (and I cant imagine he's leaving the Boston Freaking Celtics for a college job, even Duke)  ESPN named him the top recruiting AC in the country a few weeks ago and he's been the lead guy on a lot of the big time recruits since he took the job.

 
Main insider on one of the Duke boards think Capel will NOT take the GT job.

It seems like Capel is the HC in waiting unless Brad Stevens wants the job. (and I cant imagine he's leaving the Boston Freaking Celtics for a college job, even Duke)  ESPN named him the top recruiting AC in the country a few weeks ago and he's been the lead guy on a lot of the big time recruits since he took the job.
Big difference in being the lead recruiter for Coach K's program and being a great recruiter for his own program. 

Let's say Capel succeeds K. How much of a drop off do Duke fans expect? How much will be accepted from the next coach?

 
Big difference in being the lead recruiter for Coach K's program and being a great recruiter for his own program. 

Let's say Capel succeeds K. How much of a drop off do Duke fans expect? How much will be accepted from the next coach?


Capel recruited pretty well at Oklahoma. Landed Blake Griffin (although I'm sure having his older brother on the squad helped), Willie Warren and Tiny Gallon. The last 2 turned out to be doofuses (and Gallon took some extra benefits) but he still closed the deal.

Impossible to say what to expect from him as a HC. Too many variables.

 
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Capel recruited pretty well at Oklahoma. Landed Blake Griffin (although I'm sure having his older brother on the squad helped), Willie Warren and Tiny Gallon. The last 2 turned out to be doofuses (and Gallon took some extra benefits) but he still closed the deal.

Impossible to say what to expect from him as a HC. Too many variables.
You can't say what you expect in Coach K's successor? Let me put it this way.

  • Duke has averaged 29 wins per season over the past 10 seasons. How many wins will be acceptable from K's successor?
  • Duke has finished in the AP top 10 in 8 of the past 10 seasons. Will similar performance be expected from K's successor?
  • Duke won 2 national championships and 3 ACC tournaments in the past 10 seasons. What level of postseason success will be acceptable from K's successor?
Do Duke fans expect that Capel (or whoever) will match Duke's recent performance under K? I assume not. So how much of a dropoff will be acceptable?

Similar questions apply to UNC, though the looming sanctions complicate that one a bit.

 
I can't imagine anyone matching Coach K's success...the guy is simply the best ever...so expecting anyone to come in and come near that is a fool's errand.

 

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