Tau837
Footballguy
Agreed. I'm just wondering how much of a dropoff will be viewed as acceptable. I expect fans to be unreasonable with their expectations. Will the administration be reasonable?
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2016 ACC Basketball (closed - see 2017 thread) (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter oso diablo
- Start date
tdoss
Footballguy
I can't imagine. It's gonna suck.
I grew up a Miami Dolphin fan...I've witnessed what it's like to lose a HOF coach and experience that incredible dropoff for most of my life...it's just awful.
Tau837
Footballguy
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Hey, I'm just happy to see you back in the thread. Your season-long absence and sudden return this week is incredible timing.
oso diablo
Footballguy
i doubt anyone is shocked.Tango said:
it's like the guy who keeps pining for his old girlfriend, who has long since gotten married to someone else. it can be sad, tiresome, and verging on pathetic.
oso diablo
Footballguy
i think the smart fans and the admin will be quite mindful of history, and the experiences of UNC after Dean, UCLA after Wooden, etc. But even with that, the 1st successor will likely become a sacrificial lamb.Just Win Baby said:
I've always pegged Chris Collins as the next guy, but a name i started thinking about last week is Mark Few (Gonzaga). He's 53 now, and would be in late 50s when K retires (no inside info, just my speculation as to the timeframe).
p.s. just looked up Few's bio, and he has kids aged 10 and 7, so that really complicates things for him. scratching this off my list of ideas. don't see him moving when he has kids in middle school or high school.
Tau837
Footballguy
Yeah, I'd assume Few is a Gonzaga lifer at this point. He must have had opportunities to move to more prestigious programs by now.
My last appearance on FBG might have been January? It was when Syracuse was in its doldrums-- so I showed up when times were tough. I was writing about how boring the regular season was for me this year which was odd as i often enjoy bubble years more than dominant years (though I did enjoy the A10 this year).TobiasFunke said:
Many Syracuse fans agreed as attendance was down markedly.
But we all show up in March...
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
For any UNC and Syracuse fans who didn't know- there's a homer broadcast for each team this weekend and Monday as well. UNC's is on TNT on Saturday night, while Syracuse's is on TruTV.
The Cuse broadcast features Donovan McNabb as a sideline reporter. I might have to switch over during commercials just to hear what he has to offer.
The Cuse broadcast features Donovan McNabb as a sideline reporter. I might have to switch over during commercials just to hear what he has to offer.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Capel supposedly interviewed on Wednesday and there hasn't even been a rumor about him since. Weird. Supposedly Bryce Drew is the frontrunner now.
oso diablo
Footballguy
good luck Tar Heels and Orangemen!
oso diablo
Footballguy
good luck Tar Heels!
tdoss
Footballguy
Can't bring myself to say it.
I'll just say, "Let it be what it's gonna be."
Sidenote: I still crack up over UNC fans and their Duke-centricity. Saw two different posters in the crowd referring to Duke. Couldn't read one clearly, the other said something like "Where's Dook?"
If UNC wins...it's strange how many times Duke and UNC have won in back to back years.
sporthenry
Footballguy
Haha. Disappear after your team loses then show up now.
From such a tremendous high to such a crashing low. Had to be tough.
Best game I've seen in a long time. Very well played-- with many different players making offensive plays in the face of tough defenders. Fun to watch.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Great game. Tough loss. Not officiated very well in my opinion, but that's no excuse. UNC did better this year than I expected, so hard to be too upset.
MattFancy
Footballguy
The officiating was definitely bad. But Nova played a hell of a game and just wasn't missing.
The big blow was the debacle at the end of the 1st half. Jackson goes up strong there and it's a 9pt game going into the half. He missed (looked like he was fouled), Nova hits a shot and makes it a 5pt game at the half instead. Carolina loses by 3. That 4 point swing was the difference.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Yup. I put my thoughts on the ending in the NCAA thread. A buzzer-beater in the national title game is obviously tough to swallow, but I thought Nova was a better team and at least it was a buzzer-beater to break a tie instead of one that snatched victory from the Heels.
If you'd told me at any point this season that the Heels would win the ACC regular season outright, win the ACC tournament (in my backyard), and then lose by three in the national title game I would have jumped at the offer, of course. Hurts like hell today but I think in a day or two when the Jenkins shot stops playing on auto-repeat in my head I'll default to being incredibly happy about this season and proud of the guys.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
TLEF316
Footballguy
Unc obviously had a teriffic year but can you really say they exceeded expectations? They were the consensus pre season # 1 and didn't have a freshman in the rotation. They were expected to be in this position, especially in a down year for college hoops.
The call on hicks to put hart at the line at the end was horrible. I also thought archidiacono got away with a few illegal jump stop/pivot combos in the lane.
The call on hicks to put hart at the line at the end was horrible. I also thought archidiacono got away with a few illegal jump stop/pivot combos in the lane.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I suppose it depends how you define expectations. My thinking is that unless you're a prohibitive favorite like Kentucky last season, a season like UNC had absolutely exceeds any reasonable expectations. It's one thing to be a slight favorite in a large field, but it's another thing to beat out that entire field.
For example, the Heels didn't just have to outpace one team to win the ACC regular season outright, they had to beat out four other teams in the KenPom Top 20. Then to win the ACC tournament they had to survive three upset bids, one from a team that was only a 1 or 2 point underdog. I think they were maybe +200 when the tournament started? And they were maybe +150 or higher to make the Final Four out of their region IIRC.
You'd expect them to do maybe one of those three unlikely things based on the odds going into it. To do all three is, IMO, exceeding expectations.
TLEF316
Footballguy
To me, if you're the best team, your expectations should be to take the whole thing down. UNC was the favorite at the start, they were probably the favorite (or at worst, 2nd to Kansas) at the start of the tournament and they were the prohibitive favorite going into the final 4. The entire population of IC was already clearing a spot in the trophy case.
Not saying fans should be mad about things went (1 game scenario, anything can happen) but statements like "UNC did better this year than I expected" (not to pick on Construx) seem like post-game hedging.
I'll say it right now....even if Allen doesn't come back, anything less than a title will be a disappointment for Duke next year.(barring something unforeseen like Harry Giles' knee not bouncing back) Now, if they get to the finals and lose to Kentucky on a buzzer beater, it wouldn't be fair to disappointed in the team, but the result itself will be a MAJOR letdown.
MattFancy
Footballguy
As a UNC fan, I was certainly expecting a title this year. So yes, disappointed we didn't get one. But on the whole, I'm not acting like it was a lost season or anything. Won the ACC Regular Season outright, won the ACC Tourney, Final Four appearance, and lost in the title game by 3 to a red hot shooting team. It sucks not to reach the ultimate goal of the season, but I don't see it as a total failure.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Seriously, everybody's got their own way of approaching sports and their teams, and that's their right. But to me anyone who assumes that their team should win something simply because they are the favorites over any other single team in a large field: (1) has no understanding of probabilities and (2) is setting themselves up for a miserable existence as a sports fan.
All favorites are not created equal. Warriors fans at this point would reasonably be disappointed if they don't win the title this year, with odds around -200, a trophy from last year already on the shelf, and presumably other opportunities to come in the near future. Cubs fans, who back a team that's around +800 to win it all, hasn't been to the World Series since 1945, and hasn't even won a division title since 2008, would have to be sadistic to take the same approach.
UNC obviously isn't the Cubs, but given the unpredictable nature of college basketball's single elimination tournaments and the Heels' recent drought of Final Fours and ACC tournament titles (2009 and 2008 respectively before this year) they obviously aren't the Warriors either. To my knowledge UNC was never better than +700 win the title before the tournament started. If you can't be happy unless your team beats 7-1 odds, even if they beat underdog odds twice to win the conference tournament and reach the Final Four before that, you're essentially deciding that you want to be unhappy. I don't understand why anyone would ever do that.
Duke is a little different, of course. Duke and Kentucky are going to be perennial contenders as long as the one and done nonsense continues. Having maybe 4-1 odds in your good years and maybe 15-1 in your "down" years would change anyone's perspective.
oso diablo
Footballguy
oso diablo
Footballguy
i can't find odds for 2017 hoops, but for college football, Clemson has been pegged as the favorite going into this next season. But their listed odds are 6-1. So even the favorite has only a slim chance of winning the title. I will guess that the hoops favorites will have similar or longer odds.
So to say essentially "title or bust" seems quite unfair, and doesn't acknowledge the nature of the sport you are following.
So to say essentially "title or bust" seems quite unfair, and doesn't acknowledge the nature of the sport you are following.
tdoss
Footballguy
Yea...even during the early 90's, I don't think I "expected" Duke to win it all.
I was very hopeful and definitely thought it was possible but man...that's definitely a setup for sadness.
Allen returns and no late injuries...I "expect" a Final Four slot for Duke.
There's just too many variables beyond that.
But let's see how it unfolds...if Allen returns and Duke somehow gets the preseason #1 ranking over Kentucky and proceeds to win regular season and ACC tournament...and they end up being one of the two overall favorites going in...then I may change my expectations to winning it all.
P.S. - What happened to Roy not caring about the ACC tourney ;-)
Always loved that ol' chestnut.
I was very hopeful and definitely thought it was possible but man...that's definitely a setup for sadness.
Allen returns and no late injuries...I "expect" a Final Four slot for Duke.
There's just too many variables beyond that.
But let's see how it unfolds...if Allen returns and Duke somehow gets the preseason #1 ranking over Kentucky and proceeds to win regular season and ACC tournament...and they end up being one of the two overall favorites going in...then I may change my expectations to winning it all.
P.S. - What happened to Roy not caring about the ACC tourney ;-)
Always loved that ol' chestnut.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Here you go, Duke fans:
And thanks for letting me ramble. Turns out it was pretty cathartic.
Set your expectations accordingly.
And thanks for letting me ramble. Turns out it was pretty cathartic.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Well, one of my few posts in the thread this year was predicting that they looked like a Sweet Sixteen, lucky if Elite Eight team. So those were my expectations going into the dance.
Aerial Assault
Footballguy
Grayson Allen to return to Duke for his junior season.
In the video at the link, he talks about mistakes he made this past season, obviously referring to the trips, and his recognition of the need to serve as a positive role model for young kids. He also talks quite a bit about the personal importance of his academics (he's on track to graduate in three years). There's a nice bonus shot of J.J. Redick addressing the team from some point this past season.
Well. So. That has happened. And I sure did not expect it.
I'm trying to figure out a better week - or, hell, a better three days - of being a Duke fan aside from the Final Fours culminating in titles. In short,
In the video at the link, he talks about mistakes he made this past season, obviously referring to the trips, and his recognition of the need to serve as a positive role model for young kids. He also talks quite a bit about the personal importance of his academics (he's on track to graduate in three years). There's a nice bonus shot of J.J. Redick addressing the team from some point this past season.
Well. So. That has happened. And I sure did not expect it.
I'm trying to figure out a better week - or, hell, a better three days - of being a Duke fan aside from the Final Fours culminating in titles. In short,
NutterButter
Footballguy
So who loses a scholly or are they expecting a transfer? Any more rumblings about Thornton leaving?
TLEF316
Footballguy
Looks like thornton is still leaving but its not official yet. It also looks like obi may "retire" from basketball due to his knees and take a medical hardship.
Although if I'm chase jeter, it's tough to see a path to more than 10 mpg next season unless he improves in a major way
Aerial Assault
Footballguy
Right on - but not this week I don't think
Amazing, amazing few days for Duke fans here
Aerial Assault
Footballguy
TLEF covered it, but Thornton's desire to leave makes more sense if we assume that there was never much doubt among those on the team - which is so incredibly fantastic to me if so - that Grayson Allen was coming back. Since Jones will be a senior, he'll get minutes (and hell, he might even be worth something - nowhere to go but up from this past season, and he did hit two nice-looking cosmetic threes late against Oregon) in the backcourt, and Allen and Frank Jackson will probably start (with one playing point or both of them sharing the point a la Scheyer and Smith in 2010) backed by Kennard. That may not leave a whole lot of room for Derryck, which is unfortunate because his defense is elite already and his offensive skill set will come.
NutterButter
Footballguy
I thought thornton was solid. He's a known commodity and I could only see him getting better. Hope its not a kink in the armor next year having an unknown freshman running the point. If he pulls a Jeter, that could jeopardize the perfect season 
NutterButter
Footballguy
Considering how bad jeter was this season, he'll need another year of practice to become a solid player
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Is Cuonzo Martin as bad a coach as Clay Travis claims?
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Supposedly Ga Tech is announcing Josh Pastner this afternoon. No idea how I feel about this.
Tusken Raider
Footballguy
Lifelong Memphis fan here. Here's my take: he's a tireless worker, who has a reputation as a strong recruiter. He's big on character, though his players don't always exhibit the character and behavior that he demands. He preaches positivity, and wants everyone to basically be like him (work hard, be positive, follow his lead and be successful).
But despite all of this, his players don't often respond on the court to his coaching. He has a reputation as a dictator who has too quick of a hook with his players both off and on the court. His teams appear disorganized and don't have much of an offensive or defensive identity. So they play to the level of their competition, often relying on AAU athleticism instead of a set system. Lots of players were either dismissed, or transferred during his tenure. He is a nice guy, but a terribly corny speaker who comes across as cliche and ungenuine when talking basketball.
Maybe Memphis wasn't a good fit for him. Maybe he'll be able to attract a caliber of player at GT that responds better to his style. Most Memphis fans were happy to see him leave, because he did not field consistent, competitive teams (5-26 record against the Top 25, with a lot of those losses being "the wheels have fallen off" blowouts.) But most people I know hope he gets it right at GT, because it wasn't working at Memphis.
I personally hope he succeeds. But if I were placing wagers on ACC hoops next season, I'd look to make a lot of money at the expense of the Yellowjackets.
