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2020-21 NBA *Playoffs* Thread: Bucks are the champs and you can take that to the bank bromigos (10 Viewers)

Craig_MiamiFL said:
@TimBontemps

New ESPN story: Doc Rivers said Monday that Ben Simmons is prepared to do the work to fix his shot this summer — and that the Sixers have the plan to do it. “I believe we know what the right work is, and the right type of work, and the right way to do it.”
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Had to come to this to figure out the right way to do this...

Oy

 
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General Malaise said:
Little Hillsboro Oregon hosts the Les Schwab invitational around Xmas - some of the best HS talent in the country facing off against Oregon's best HS teams in a great tournament in a small gym.  Love it.  

Few years back, I took my son who's a basketball nut and during one of the games, he said that Ben Simmons (in town to play Portland) posted on his Insta that he was heading out to watch the next game.  Kid was pretty stoked about this and spotted Ben and his entourage strutting into the gym on the opposite side.  Pretty star struck he told me "I'm going to go get his autograph" and I said "Yeah, you can try, but he's probably not signing stuff" but he wouldn't hear of it.  

After the game, we walked to the other side of the gym and waited by the exit.  About 20-30 kids his age were also there, no doubt Insta followers and hoping for an autograph.  Simmons finally emerged, looked straight ahead and ignored all the kids asking him for a fist bump, a signature or even a hello.  Just looked straight ahead with a 200 years stare and exited out with this boys.  

Karma is real, folks.  Don't be a richard to kids who are over the moon that you are sharing the small gym with them to watch hoops.  Could have said "hello" or just given a high five or two.  But to ice them out completely?  Go miss every free throw, chump.  
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He probably missed them because there were more than 3 kids there 

 
Deamon said:
Is he really though?  I'm in no way saying Ben is worth his contract (though I'm sure that is the one thing you guys will take from this post)... but look at all the guys in the league with max contracts.  This is a league of getting max deals, and not all of them are going to work out.  Right now Ben is looking like one of the many that might not be working out.  

I'd call 'elite" being a top 10 NBA player, and not one person in here ever called him that.  Don't even think the Sixers ever even thought he was that. 
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Some of the strategy is to pay him that for cap reasons also, so its not just pay on his worth.

 
I love ragging on Simmons as much as anyone, but...

For the playoffs, Philly was +12.9/100 with Simmons on the court, and -7.7 with him off the court.

 
the moops said:
I love ragging on Simmons as much as anyone, but...

For the playoffs, Philly was +12.9/100 with Simmons on the court, and -7.7 with him off the court.
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According to the site I’m looking at, the Sixers had a -6.1 net rating with Simmons on the court without Embiid. 

 
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the moops said:
I love ragging on Simmons as much as anyone, but...

For the playoffs, Philly was +12.9/100 with Simmons on the court, and -7.7 with him off the court.
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so they are much worse with him off the court and hes unplayable at the end of games that isnt a good recipe bromigo take that to the bank 

 
caustic said:
Before any more basketball is played, we have the draft lottery!  :excited:  (Tomorrow night, 8:30 ET)

Potential drama:

There's a 47.9% chance that the atrocious Rockets lose their pick to the Thunder -- their pick is top-4 protected.

There's a 72.4% chance that the slightly-less-atrocious Wolves lose their pick to the Warriors -- that pick is top-3 protected.

There's a 79.8% chance that the Bulls lose their pick to the Magic (top-4 protected). 

I'm rooting for OKC to land the #1 pick and for the Wolves to keep their pick (so they can take Suggs). 
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This is usually the best day and worst night for a Piston fan. Hopefully I am off the road before they announce the bad news. 

 
Navin Johnson said:
And the Philly fans think they can get Lillard for Simmons straight up
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Sixers twitter is insane. And the entire NBA fanbase can be seen with a lot of the people who are "fans" of NBA twitter, etc. They don't show up during the regular season and pop in if the Sixers are doing good. All of the other time they don't follow the team, and are the first to hop on whatever hot take is thrown out there. 

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
The Process would have worked if not for those snooping kids!

I mean, the trade up for Fultz was a disaster.  They overpaid for Tobias Harris (wasting the 1st rounder that they got for the terrible trade of Mikal Bridges for Zhaire Smith trade).  They chose Simmons/Brett Brown over Jimmy and Reddick.  The Horford signing never made sense.  And as much as I love Thybulle and Maxey as pieces of a championship roster, you include them to get Harden (or maybe even CP3).  Other than that though, great success.  
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it is funny how all of the anti-Sixers is flying everywhere, even with all of the local media. the hot take people are all over the place. 

But if you want to view "the process" you need to give it a fair objective look. Sixers were a 7th-8th seed when Hinkie took over. He was able to restart the direction of the team, Adam Silver felt it was an insult to the league and forced the 6'ers hand to bring in Colangelo. All you have listed above was under Colangelo and Elton. they weren't horrible decisions or anything, but the view of "the process" is really one of those pieces of NBA history that the story can be manipulated by whoever wants to retell it. 

 
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modogg said:
it is funny how all of the anti-Sixers is flying everywhere, even with all of the local media. the hot take people are all over the place. 

But if you want to view "the process" you need to give it a fair objective look. Sixers were a 7th-8th seed when Hinkie took over. He was able to restart the direction of the team, Adam Silver felt it was an insult to the league and forced the 6'ers hand to bring in Colangelo. All you have listed above was under Colangelo and Elton. they weren't horrible decisions or anything, but the view of "the process" is really one of those pieces of NBA history that the story can be manipulated by whoever wants to retell it. 
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What grade would you give Hinkie for the job he did as GM knowing what we know now?

 
Juxtatarot said:
What grade would you give Hinkie for the job he did as GM knowing what we know now?
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B+. He set up all the pieces that even with bumbling idiots running the team for 3 years after he was removed, they still got the #1 seed and had a chance to win a title if not for epically choke playing.

 
Insein said:
B+. He set up all the pieces that even with bumbling idiots running the team for 3 years after he was removed, they still got the #1 seed and had a chance to win a title if not for epically choke playing.
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But I was also thinking about the players he drafted. Besides Embiid, it was a pretty bad lot. 

 
Juxtatarot said:
What grade would you give Hinkie for the job he did as GM knowing what we know now?
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Hinkie would get an incomplete. no way you can give a guy a grade when the NBA came in and forced Colangelo on the Sixers. Could he have failed, sure. biggest problem is we will never know 

 
Juxtatarot said:
But I was also thinking about the players he drafted. Besides Embiid, it was a pretty bad lot. 
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Jerami Grant

Christian Wood

Robert Covington

TJ McConnell

Dario Saric

Richaun Holmes

i am sure there are others i am missing. I know those who want to hate on the Sixers will say Okafor right away, but that one is a bit of a mystery why they drafted him. Either way, point of the process was not you make all of the best picks, it is what Sam Presti has adapted to give you multiple chances to hit

it is just nutty that Sam Presti is viewed as a genius, and Hinkie is dismissed as a guy who failed 

 
Juxtatarot said:
But I was also thinking about the players he drafted. Besides Embiid, it was a pretty bad lot. 
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He took shots. He came away with Embiid and Simmons. Simmons is immensely talented. No one can deny that. He's just a mental midget when it comes to the game. Hard to predict that. 

All the players he did draft plus the capital he accumulated managed to get Jimmy Butler and Tobias Harris in the same season. Can't be helped management screwed that up. Joel, Butler and Tobias would have been a way better group to put pieces around.

 
I got to find the video but when I was looking up Danilo Galinari today I found a story from NBA2k18 about when Devon Booker met Galo when Galo was still playing for Milan in the Euroleague. Bookers dad was a teammate and spent two weeks in Milan. Booker young at the time after a practice DG invited him to shoot some hoops. He signed his own Rooster Shoes with the logo on them for Booker and a few months later Galinari was drafted to the NBA. Pretty cool story and even better if both their teams reach the finals 

 
modogg said:
Jerami Grant

Christian Wood

Robert Covington

TJ McConnell

Dario Saric

Richaun Holmes

i am sure there are others i am missing. I know those who want to hate on the Sixers will say Okafor right away, but that one is a bit of a mystery why they drafted him. Either way, point of the process was not you make all of the best picks, it is what Sam Presti has adapted to give you multiple chances to hit

it is just nutty that Sam Presti is viewed as a genius, and Hinkie is dismissed as a guy who failed 
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I view pretty Hinkie pretty highly and he made some good picks. Simmons and Fultz were the two #1s they used after forcing him out right?

 
Deamon said:
Unfortunately there is a 200 character limit for thread titles.
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What "Ben Simmons passes Sixers out of Playoffs"

"DeAndre Jordan; Worst FT shooter in the NBA Playoffs. Ben Simmons says Hold my Beer" 

"Sixers fan throws empty beer can better then Ben Simmons shooting basketballs" 

Aren't acceptable? 

 
modogg said:
Jerami Grant

Christian Wood

Robert Covington

TJ McConnell

Dario Saric

Richaun Holmes

i am sure there are others i am missing. I know those who want to hate on the Sixers will say Okafor right away, but that one is a bit of a mystery why they drafted him. Either way, point of the process was not you make all of the best picks, it is what Sam Presti has adapted to give you multiple chances to hit

it is just nutty that Sam Presti is viewed as a genius, and Hinkie is dismissed as a guy who failed 
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Because Hinkie couldn't turn those assets into anything. Hinkie wouldn't have ever made the trade for Butler either. Also Sam Hinkie has no job today which says a lot about the guy. Couldn't even hack it in the NFL 

 
Deamon said:
Who called him elite?
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Numerious people over the yrs. Philly media, national broadcasters, 76ers fans saying he's a once in a Gen player and the next Lebron. I had numerious friends who said this as well and screen shot their responses. A few last night tried to deny they every liked Ben forgetting I had the receipts to prove them otherwise. Once Ben is traded I officially get a big steak dinner at Fogo Da Chow in Philly the really nice Brazilian Steakhouse courtesy of a bet I made when Ben was drafted by one of my buddies. Really looking forward to that steak right now 

 
I've been off the thread for a few days.  

Simmons is one of the craziest "in your head" things I've ever seen.  He's a career 60% FT shooter, how in the world is he this bad from the line?  And terrified to even try to score for fear of going to the line? 

I bet half or more of the guys in this thread can shoot better than 34% from the free throw line.  

The other thing I wanted to mention.  Devin Booker is a bona fide super star.  Dude's been quietly cooking down in Phx for a couple seasons and now the whole world knows.  What a stud.  I'm a Kentucky guy, so have always rooted for him to succeed.  Never thought he or the Suns would be quite this.  So impressive.

 
modogg said:
Jerami Grant

Christian Wood

Robert Covington

TJ McConnell

Dario Saric

Richaun Holmes

i am sure there are others i am missing. I know those who want to hate on the Sixers will say Okafor right away, but that one is a bit of a mystery why they drafted him. Either way, point of the process was not you make all of the best picks, it is what Sam Presti has adapted to give you multiple chances to hit

it is just nutty that Sam Presti is viewed as a genius, and Hinkie is dismissed as a guy who failed 
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pretty solid run of picks, i'd say

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
Wasn’t the Lowery trade demand something outlandish?
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Urajh (SP) backed out at the last min of the deadline so the Sixers basically were screwed and couldn't go for a plan b. At least from what I remember a trade was agreed to and Tor backed out at the last possible minute. Sixers had Zero time to go elsewhere for a plan b 

 
mr. furley said:
probably the most amazing result of these playoffs so far is the chatter about which teams would trade for Ben Simmons and what it would take to get him.

"would the Bulls trade LaVine and..."

"would Portland move Lillard and.... what about McCollum and...."

"does Zion want out of New Orleans, would Philadelphia move Simmons for Zion and Ingram plus picks..."

"Anthony Edwards and KAT for Simmons if the Timberwolves add..."
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AK isn't trading Lavine for Simmons. They'd want Maxey and Thybule plus picks if the 76ers wanted Lavine

Ben isn't even worth CJ straight up let alone for him and Lillard 

Zion and Ingram for Ben? Is this NBA2k with the Cap turned off? 

Edwards and KAT for Ben? Fantsize much? 

Some people spend way too much time playing NBA2k GM mode I think. These are some real knee slappers. 

Brian Windhorst was already on today saying why Lillard for Simmons isn't happening. 

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
What happened last night could be a turning point in Ben Simmons career. His disappearing act this playoffs has clearly brought his “value” in question. Hopefully the embarrassment he feels will propel him to finally address the gaping holes in his game. 

With that said- I think Tobias Harris is also getting overshadowed by Simmons for his role in the Sixers losing. With Simmons clearly not playing well through the first 4 games of the series- the Sixers and Embiid needed Harris to be a great second option in games 5-7. In those three games- he shot a total of 19-55 from the field (34.5%) and averaged only 17.8 points. He also had one of the worst +/- out of all of the Sixers starters.  While Simmons and Doc both deserve a lot of the fault- what Harris did in the last 3 games was also very underwhelming 
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Harris is really overpaid for what he is but that was because the Sixers panicked thinking they were keeping Butler and then panic signed Harris so they wouldn't lose him. For the amount of money Harris makes he should be producing more. At the sametime Harris isn't that type of player. I don't blame Tobi for signing the contract but I do blame people for thinking he would play up to and above that deal 

 
Desert_Power said:
Something like Kemba + a pick/prospect may make sense....if Doc thinks Kemba has something left in the tank. He certainly is not a player that shies away from taking shots in crunchtime. I know Cs fans wish he would have passed more of those up to Tatum or Brown.

Simmons is only 24. It may be over in Philly, but someone will think they can rehab him. That contract is just awful though.
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Simmons is the new Rudy Gay. Awful contract never lived up to the hype but there will always be a team thinking they can rehab him. Only difference is Ben is just uncoachable right now 

 
Navin Johnson said:
I think LBJ's fandom for Simmons stems from him being a Klutch client and likely ends there.
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They are pretty good friends actually. I remember a few people bringing it up when Lebron was an FA saying why it made sense for him to sign with the Sixers was do to Ben and him friendship. It's not mad love that Lebron and DWade had but it is a friendship non the less. 

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
Not what anyone is saying.  And Lillard is only available (at a lesser value than actual) if he is demanding a trade.  
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But Simmons straight up for Lillard? Dame's value doesn't sink that low. If the Sixers are gonna trade Simmons they'll be adding sweeteners like 1st round picks and other assets and maybe another player or two. They might acquire something decent but a bad contract swap isn't out of the window. 

Even if Lillard wants a trade if Ben Simmons is involved I'd hope as a Portland fan we're asking for a 1st and Maxey or Thybule plus something else there. 

Now the Harden trade would've worked in this scenario but really I don't know how much of a difference Harden makes currently or long term. 

 
caustic said:
Before any more basketball is played, we have the draft lottery!  :excited:  (Tomorrow night, 8:30 ET)

Potential drama:

There's a 47.9% chance that the atrocious Rockets lose their pick to the Thunder -- their pick is top-4 protected.

There's a 72.4% chance that the slightly-less-atrocious Wolves lose their pick to the Warriors -- that pick is top-3 protected.

There's a 79.8% chance that the Bulls lose their pick to the Magic (top-4 protected). 

I'm rooting for OKC to land the #1 pick and for the Wolves to keep their pick (so they can take Suggs). 
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I don't care about the Bulls pick but if we end up keeping it Thats cool 

 
AAABatteries said:
The Hawks this year are like Washington Huskies making the CFB playoff that one year - we are just happy to be here and hope we don't embarrass ourselves on national TV.
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You certainly haven't. I'm rooting for you guys but Mostly because of Galinari and he's also a Milan Fan. 

 
General Malaise said:
Little Hillsboro Oregon hosts the Les Schwab invitational around Xmas - some of the best HS talent in the country facing off against Oregon's best HS teams in a great tournament in a small gym.  Love it.  

Few years back, I took my son who's a basketball nut and during one of the games, he said that Ben Simmons (in town to play Portland) posted on his Insta that he was heading out to watch the next game.  Kid was pretty stoked about this and spotted Ben and his entourage strutting into the gym on the opposite side.  Pretty star struck he told me "I'm going to go get his autograph" and I said "Yeah, you can try, but he's probably not signing stuff" but he wouldn't hear of it.  

After the game, we walked to the other side of the gym and waited by the exit.  About 20-30 kids his age were also there, no doubt Insta followers and hoping for an autograph.  Simmons finally emerged, looked straight ahead and ignored all the kids asking him for a fist bump, a signature or even a hello.  Just looked straight ahead with a 200 years stare and exited out with this boys.  

Karma is real, folks.  Don't be a richard to kids who are over the moon that you are sharing the small gym with them to watch hoops.  Could have said "hello" or just given a high five or two.  But to ice them out completely?  Go miss every free throw, chump.  
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Sounds like stories I've heard about him for yrs. My Cousins Wife is from Australia and theres some good ones similar to this back home too. 

 
Insein said:
No philly fan said Lillard for Simmons straight up. We have said Simmons, Thybulle, another salary (Howard maybe) plus 3 firsts and maybe that gets it done. That's after a super max sign and trade for Dame. But probably not.
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I don't think you've seen the NBA EXPERTS on the twitterverse have ya? 

 
Deamon said:
Is he really though?  I'm in no way saying Ben is worth his contract (though I'm sure that is the one thing you guys will take from this post)... but look at all the guys in the league with max contracts.  This is a league of getting max deals, and not all of them are going to work out.  Right now Ben is looking like one of the many that might not be working out.  

I'd call 'elite" being a top 10 NBA player, and not one person in here ever called him that.  Don't even think the Sixers ever even thought he was that. 
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You are too worried about wondering who's said it on here. I'm talking off this board plenty have said it about him. I heard it for 2 yrs from Sixers fans when Ben was a SR in HS he's worth tanking for. He's a once in a life time player, Scouts say he's the next Lebron, etc etc. I even saw numerious articles and people hyping this guy to the moon. 

 
Deamon said:
Link?  Or are you making that up too.

No one said that, but nice try.


EDT:  I see now that you mean people on twitter, not in here.  I can't find anyone on twitter saying it, but I suppose if you look on twitter hard enough, you'll find a few people that will say almost anything (like the earth is flat).  It's not even close to the consensus from Philly fans that they can get Lillard for Simmons straight up, maybe 1% of them so not sure your statement has any merit. 
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https://twitter.com/search?q=Ben Simmons for Damian Lillard&src=typed_query

Yes there are some packages involved but some of these are really outlandish. 

 
SWC said:
truthfully if ben simmons is a lesson to the league that organizational intentional tanking doesnt pay off with a championship then im happy about him as a human take that to the bank brohans 
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Not just drafting. I saw a Thesis by an Honor student from UConn I'll link the PDF too here. It's long but a good read. Basic summary is it takes more then getting a good draft pick and drafting the right player. There is luck going into it as well as other player moves like who is signed/traded for along with who gets traded and released. Other factors such as coaching and system. The biggest is how good or inept an organization is as well. The Clippers were used in this Thesis as they have been such an inept org for yrs and constantly sucked. I forget the good managed FO they use but that team went from really bad to really good because of their FO structure. 

In the 76ers case their Ownership was still bad and they had a GM who was really unprofessional and didn't know what he was doing other then "I'm really good making an NBA team the laughing stock of the league and hope I can draft some good players." 

Here's the study 

Can NBA Teams Benefit from Losing

 
modogg said:
it is funny how all of the anti-Sixers is flying everywhere, even with all of the local media. the hot take people are all over the place. 

But if you want to view "the process" you need to give it a fair objective look. Sixers were a 7th-8th seed when Hinkie took over. He was able to restart the direction of the team, Adam Silver felt it was an insult to the league and forced the 6'ers hand to bring in Colangelo. All you have listed above was under Colangelo and Elton. they weren't horrible decisions or anything, but the view of "the process" is really one of those pieces of NBA history that the story can be manipulated by whoever wants to retell it. 
Click to expand...
The point of Tanking was to be a clear NBA contender and ultimate goal was to win the title. I use to have this argument with people on the old Phillies board and the one guy who was a Sixers fan but didn't drink the red and blue kool aid and was always objective on all sports topics said it best. 

"If the Sixers intentionally losing Goal wasn't to win an NBA title and just be able to compete for one, then really it's a failure. The ultimate goal in sports is to win a title." 

So if the point of the tank was just to have a chance to compete and not win that's a failure. The 76ers despite having the #1 seed still had an early exit. The only thing left from the Tank job the team has to show for all their troubles is a Big lanky PG who's afraid of the free throw line and uncoachable and C who is probably walking on two knees with barely any cartilage left that WHEN HEALTHY (Keywords right there) is the most dominate big in the league and another early exit from the playoffs. That is not good at all. Lets call this for what it was. Purposely loosing and taking short cuts in the hope to get better. 

Also the league didn't force Hinkie out. As much as the league wanted Hinkie out for his bullish amateur behavior and lack of respect, plus losing the league money (Teams sat their stars when they played the Sixers causing bad ticket sales for their games), it was actually the 76ers themselves. Per someone with knowledge I met at a game who was talking to another guy he said Brown and Hinkie were not getting along (which has been reported) and Brown told the team he wasn't going to extend his contract and he'd resign at the end of the season if Hinkie was still on board. So the Sixers got rid of Hinkie and Kept Brown. The Local Media and 76ers want to blame the league for forcing Hinkie out but the reality is/was that Brett Brown forced him out and Josh Harris and the Org chose Brown over Hinkie. 

 
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