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2020 Greatest of All Time Sports Draft-Zow wins, Judges still suck (2 Viewers)

Ilov80s said:
I think it depends which sources you use for AP. I don’t know which is the real one. Wikipedia has 4x 1st team AP. I think he’s kind of a Frank Gore/Curtis Martin type where one of his biggest assets was longevity. He was very good for 20 years but was the best of the best for only maybe 5 years. It’s just a matter of perspective. It’s not a complaint from me, just a conversation as we await more judging.
Click to expand...
That's really weird.

That page says 4.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_All-Pro_Team
This wiki page, and 93 and 92 page for it don't have him on it.  He's on the 1991 page  Proref.com lists 1991. 

4 AP for OFF and Def linemen were at the bottom of the list.  He's the Pete Rose of Secondary players.  :D

 
Getzlaf15 said:
That's really weird.

That page says 4.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_All-Pro_Team
This wiki page, and 93 and 92 page for it don't have him on it.  He's on the 1991 page  Proref.com lists 1991. 

4 AP for OFF and Def linemen were at the bottom of the list.  He's the Pete Rose of Secondary players.  :D
Click to expand...
I think there’s multiple sources that put out an AP list which is where the confusion comes from. I guess AP is the one that’s considered “official” but it seems like it’s like boxing titles where there’s more than one entity putting them out. 

 
NFL Secondary -- continued

Rank 12 / 5 pts     Emlen Tunnell

Rank 11 / 6 pts     Brian Dawkins

Rank 10 / 7 pts     Mike Haynes

Rank 9 / 8 pts       Willie Brown

 
NFL Secondary -- continued

Rank 8 / 9 pts       Champ Bailey

Rank 7 / 10 pts     Night Train Lane

Rank 6 / 11 pts     Darelle Revis

Rank 5 / 12 pts     Mel Blount

 
from the twitters

Justin Verlander (3006) and Max Scherzer (2692) are the active MLB strikeout leaders. They need 16 more just to tie Nolan Ryan.

 
I want to voluntarily give timmy (or anyone else he approves) the option of slotting my pick after-the-fact.

NFL Secondary -- continued

Rank 4 / 13 pts     Ed Reed

Rank 3 / 14 pts     Ronnie Lott

Rank 2 / 15 pts     Deion Sanders

Rank 1 / 16 pts     Rod Woodson

____________________________________

Baseline metric/list used

Macro-Explanation

The Pro Football Reference Hall of Fame Monitor (HOFm) is a metric designed to estimate a player's chances of making the Pro Football Hall of Fame using AV, Pro Bowls, All-Pros, championships, and various stat milestones. The players listed below are the top 250 HOFm-rated players who played DB starting in 1955 or later for at least 50 career games. A score of 100 is around the average modern-era inductee.

Micro-Explanation of Pro Football Reference Hall-of-Fame Monitor

Baseball-Reference tracks various Hall of Fame predictor statistics such as Bill James' Hall of Fame Monitor and Jay Jaffe's WAR Score System. Basketball Reference also has a Hall of Fame Probability formula that we display on player pages and gives people a brief glance at where players stand based on their statistical case.

With the Pro Football Hall of Fame class of 2020 being debated this winter, we figured it was time to work up a Hall of Fame predicting formula for the NFL. We have devised a new HOF Monitor metric that we are deploying for Pro Football Reference beginning today! Here's a link to the quarterback HOF Monitor page, which also includes links to the other positions. Links to these tables will also appear under the Leaderboards and Awards section of player pages.

The base formula uses weighted Approximate Value (which is 100% of the player's peak year, 95% of their second-best year, 90% of their third-best, and so on) as a starting point. Bonuses are added for Pro Football Hall of Fame All-Decade selections, MVP awards, Defensive Player of the Year awards, first-team AP All-Pro selections, Super Bowls/titles, and Pro Bowls, in descending weights.

In addition, bonuses are added if a player has earned first-team All-Pro in over 33% of their seasons. This reflects the reputation boost afforded to players who led the league in short careers like Gale Sayers and Terrell Davis. For players not yet inducted, small bonuses are also added for semi-finalist and finalist appearances on previous HOF ballots, since that indicates that they've already been seriously considered.

On top of the base formula, there are statistical bonuses given depending on the position. For quarterbacks, wide receivers and tight ends there are different thresholds depending on the era they played in so as to narrow the gap between the depressed passing stats before 1980 and the explosion after that. For the full methodology, check out our PFR HOF Monitor explainer page here.

Similar to JAWS, a score of 100 is around the average modern-era HOF inductee for each position. All eligible players with a score over 120 got into the Hall of Fame fairly quickly, save for a few exceptions such as Willie Wood. A score of 150 would be a first ballot lock (sole exception of Alan Page who had to wait a year).

A score of 80 or above means they're a good candidate to eventually get in, or they’re the highest-profile borderline candidates. The absolute lowest score for HOF inductees would be 40, although most of these lower scoring Hall of Famers are courtesy of senior committee selections.

...

______________________________________________

Where I had to do some thinkin'

(1) How do I rate players not on the baseline list?

  • Emlen Tunnell and Night Train Lane didn't appear on this list simply because (I'm guessing) the relevant stats weren't compiled at that time.
  • Hey, maybe I can compare them to someone a little bit younger that IS on the list? That would be Paul Krause.
  • Krause's stats were somewhat similar but his stats were taken over a significantly longer career, meaning his peaks were never as great as for the other two (or there weren't as many "peaks").
  • I believe the above bullet is partially why Darrell Green got dinged on the reference list.
  • I also slotted Night Train higher than Tunnell simply because I wanted to include some aspect of physicality as a part of my slotting, for which Night Train was a legend
(2) My pick was Rod Woodson (#1 rated on my results) -- how do I reconcile rating him first without shattering my credibility (wait, do I even have credibility?) ?

  • I didn't cherry pick this list because Woodson was rated #1 on that specific list. This site (similar to the related ones for baseball, etc.) is my goto.
  • The only list worse than one that doesn't specify the rationale behind its rankings.... is a similarly unexplained list in the form of a ####### slideshow. This list gives rationale on everything in a way I find suitable.
  • Physicality -- Passes Defended was a stat that started at the tail end of their careers so I ignored it. Solo Tackles and Tackle Assists gave a huge nod to Woodson.
  • Going into the individual stats between Woodson and Sanders, there are multiple categories that I consider "pushes" but Woodson (#1 on list) still has substantially more total points than #2 Sanders (176.28 vs. 164.40). That total points differential is greater than the difference between #8 and #12 on the original reference, which included draftees Blount, Revis, Champ and Willie Brown.
 @timschochet (or anyone else) -- feel free to edit my final list to re-slot my picks (Rod Woodson).

Prelim Final Rankings -- NFL Secondary

Rank 1 / 16 pts     Rod Woodson

Rank 2 / 15 pts     Deion Sanders

Rank 3 / 14 pts     Ronnie Lott

Rank 4 / 13 pts     Ed Reed

Rank 5 / 12 pts     Mel Blount

Rank 6 / 11 pts     Darelle Revis

Rank 7 / 10 pts     Night Train Lane

Rank 8 / 9 pts       Champ Bailey

Rank 9 / 8 pts       Willie Brown

Rank 10 / 7 pts     Mike Haynes

Rank 11 / 6 pts     Brian Dawkins

Rank 12 / 5 pts     Emlen Tunnell

Rank 13 / 4 pts     Troy Polamalu

Rank 14 / 3 pts     Ken Houston

Rank 15 / 2 pts     Paul Krause

Rank 16 / 1 pts     Darrell Green

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Standings after Higgins Rated NFL Safeties - 

 

--STANDINGS--GOLD--SILVER--BRONZE--TOTAL

1 --tuffnutt--438--4--1--6=11

2 --Gally--437--3--1--3=7

3 --Zow--434--3--4--5=12

4 --Ilov80s--434--3--4--1=8

5 --AAABatteries--433--3--3--6=12 (bronze)

6 --joffer--430--5--4--1=10 (silver)

7 --DougB--422--6--2--2=10

8 --Getzlaf15--422--1--7--4=12

9 --Long Ball Larry--410--3--2--4=9

10 -otb_lifer--398--0--2--4=6

11 -Jagov--386--3--7--0=10

12 -timschochet--373--3--2--3=8

13 -wikkidpissah--361--2--1--4=7

14 -higgins--360--2--1--2=5 (gold)

15 -jwb--356--2--4--2=8

16 -Kal El--298--4--2--0=6

 
higgins said:
I want to voluntarily give timmy (or anyone else he approves) the option of slotting my pick after-the-fact.

NFL Secondary -- continued

Rank 4 / 13 pts     Ed Reed

Rank 3 / 14 pts     Ronnie Lott

Rank 2 / 15 pts     Deion Sanders

Rank 1 / 16 pts     Rod Woodson

____________________________________

Baseline metric/list used

Macro-Explanation

The Pro Football Reference Hall of Fame Monitor (HOFm) is a metric designed to estimate a player's chances of making the Pro Football Hall of Fame using AV, Pro Bowls, All-Pros, championships, and various stat milestones. The players listed below are the top 250 HOFm-rated players who played DB starting in 1955 or later for at least 50 career games. A score of 100 is around the average modern-era inductee.

Micro-Explanation of Pro Football Reference Hall-of-Fame Monitor

Baseball-Reference tracks various Hall of Fame predictor statistics such as Bill James' Hall of Fame Monitor and Jay Jaffe's WAR Score System. Basketball Reference also has a Hall of Fame Probability formula that we display on player pages and gives people a brief glance at where players stand based on their statistical case.

With the Pro Football Hall of Fame class of 2020 being debated this winter, we figured it was time to work up a Hall of Fame predicting formula for the NFL. We have devised a new HOF Monitor metric that we are deploying for Pro Football Reference beginning today! Here's a link to the quarterback HOF Monitor page, which also includes links to the other positions. Links to these tables will also appear under the Leaderboards and Awards section of player pages.

The base formula uses weighted Approximate Value (which is 100% of the player's peak year, 95% of their second-best year, 90% of their third-best, and so on) as a starting point. Bonuses are added for Pro Football Hall of Fame All-Decade selections, MVP awards, Defensive Player of the Year awards, first-team AP All-Pro selections, Super Bowls/titles, and Pro Bowls, in descending weights.

In addition, bonuses are added if a player has earned first-team All-Pro in over 33% of their seasons. This reflects the reputation boost afforded to players who led the league in short careers like Gale Sayers and Terrell Davis. For players not yet inducted, small bonuses are also added for semi-finalist and finalist appearances on previous HOF ballots, since that indicates that they've already been seriously considered.

On top of the base formula, there are statistical bonuses given depending on the position. For quarterbacks, wide receivers and tight ends there are different thresholds depending on the era they played in so as to narrow the gap between the depressed passing stats before 1980 and the explosion after that. For the full methodology, check out our PFR HOF Monitor explainer page here.

Similar to JAWS, a score of 100 is around the average modern-era HOF inductee for each position. All eligible players with a score over 120 got into the Hall of Fame fairly quickly, save for a few exceptions such as Willie Wood. A score of 150 would be a first ballot lock (sole exception of Alan Page who had to wait a year).

A score of 80 or above means they're a good candidate to eventually get in, or they’re the highest-profile borderline candidates. The absolute lowest score for HOF inductees would be 40, although most of these lower scoring Hall of Famers are courtesy of senior committee selections.

...

______________________________________________

Where I had to do some thinkin'

(1) How do I rate players not on the baseline list?

  • Emlen Tunnell and Night Train Lane didn't appear on this list simply because (I'm guessing) the relevant stats weren't compiled at that time.
  • Hey, maybe I can compare them to someone a little bit younger that IS on the list? That would be Paul Krause.
  • Krause's stats were somewhat similar but his stats were taken over a significantly longer career, meaning his peaks were never as great as for the other two (or there weren't as many "peaks").
  • I believe the above bullet is partially why Darrell Green got dinged on the reference list.
  • I also slotted Night Train higher than Tunnell simply because I wanted to include some aspect of physicality as a part of my slotting, for which Night Train was a legend
(2) My pick was Rod Woodson (#1 rated on my results) -- how do I reconcile rating him first without shattering my credibility (wait, do I even have credibility?) ?

  • I didn't cherry pick this list because Woodson was rated #1 on that specific list. This site (similar to the related ones for baseball, etc.) is my goto.
  • The only list worse than one that doesn't specify the rationale behind its rankings.... is a similarly unexplained list in the form of a ####### slideshow. This list gives rationale on everything in a way I find suitable.
  • Physicality -- Passes Defended was a stat that started at the tail end of their careers so I ignored it. Solo Tackles and Tackle Assists gave a huge nod to Woodson.
  • Going into the individual stats between Woodson and Sanders, there are multiple categories that I consider "pushes" but Woodson (#1 on list) still has substantially more total points than #2 Sanders (176.28 vs. 164.40). That total points differential is greater than the difference between #8 and #12 on the original reference, which included draftees Blount, Revis, Champ and Willie Brown.
 @timschochet (or anyone else) -- feel free to edit my final list to re-slot my picks (Rod Woodson).

Prelim Final Rankings -- NFL Secondary

Rank 1 / 16 pts     Rod Woodson

Rank 2 / 15 pts     Deion Sanders

Rank 3 / 14 pts     Ronnie Lott

Rank 4 / 13 pts     Ed Reed

Rank 5 / 12 pts     Mel Blount

Rank 6 / 11 pts     Darelle Revis

Rank 7 / 10 pts     Night Train Lane

Rank 8 / 9 pts       Champ Bailey

Rank 9 / 8 pts       Willie Brown

Rank 10 / 7 pts     Mike Haynes

Rank 11 / 6 pts     Brian Dawkins

Rank 12 / 5 pts     Emlen Tunnell

Rank 13 / 4 pts     Troy Polamalu

Rank 14 / 3 pts     Ken Houston

Rank 15 / 2 pts     Paul Krause

Rank 16 / 1 pts     Darrell Green
Click to expand...
I still find it hard to believe that any metric based system to rank secondary players would have the NFL career leader in interceptions out of the top 10-ish.  Interceptions aren't a compliler type stat.  Just playing longer doesn't automatically increase the stat like tackles would.  It just baffles me.

ETA:  in the table linked it shows that Krause never made a tackle (if I am reading it right).  Seems odd.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
higgins said:
I want to voluntarily give timmy (or anyone else he approves) the option of slotting my pick after-the-fact.

NFL Secondary -- continued

Rank 4 / 13 pts     Ed Reed

Rank 3 / 14 pts     Ronnie Lott

Rank 2 / 15 pts     Deion Sanders

Rank 1 / 16 pts     Rod Woodson

____________________________________

Baseline metric/list used

Macro-Explanation

The Pro Football Reference Hall of Fame Monitor (HOFm) is a metric designed to estimate a player's chances of making the Pro Football Hall of Fame using AV, Pro Bowls, All-Pros, championships, and various stat milestones. The players listed below are the top 250 HOFm-rated players who played DB starting in 1955 or later for at least 50 career games. A score of 100 is around the average modern-era inductee.

Micro-Explanation of Pro Football Reference Hall-of-Fame Monitor

Baseball-Reference tracks various Hall of Fame predictor statistics such as Bill James' Hall of Fame Monitor and Jay Jaffe's WAR Score System. Basketball Reference also has a Hall of Fame Probability formula that we display on player pages and gives people a brief glance at where players stand based on their statistical case.

With the Pro Football Hall of Fame class of 2020 being debated this winter, we figured it was time to work up a Hall of Fame predicting formula for the NFL. We have devised a new HOF Monitor metric that we are deploying for Pro Football Reference beginning today! Here's a link to the quarterback HOF Monitor page, which also includes links to the other positions. Links to these tables will also appear under the Leaderboards and Awards section of player pages.

The base formula uses weighted Approximate Value (which is 100% of the player's peak year, 95% of their second-best year, 90% of their third-best, and so on) as a starting point. Bonuses are added for Pro Football Hall of Fame All-Decade selections, MVP awards, Defensive Player of the Year awards, first-team AP All-Pro selections, Super Bowls/titles, and Pro Bowls, in descending weights.

In addition, bonuses are added if a player has earned first-team All-Pro in over 33% of their seasons. This reflects the reputation boost afforded to players who led the league in short careers like Gale Sayers and Terrell Davis. For players not yet inducted, small bonuses are also added for semi-finalist and finalist appearances on previous HOF ballots, since that indicates that they've already been seriously considered.

On top of the base formula, there are statistical bonuses given depending on the position. For quarterbacks, wide receivers and tight ends there are different thresholds depending on the era they played in so as to narrow the gap between the depressed passing stats before 1980 and the explosion after that. For the full methodology, check out our PFR HOF Monitor explainer page here.

Similar to JAWS, a score of 100 is around the average modern-era HOF inductee for each position. All eligible players with a score over 120 got into the Hall of Fame fairly quickly, save for a few exceptions such as Willie Wood. A score of 150 would be a first ballot lock (sole exception of Alan Page who had to wait a year).

A score of 80 or above means they're a good candidate to eventually get in, or they’re the highest-profile borderline candidates. The absolute lowest score for HOF inductees would be 40, although most of these lower scoring Hall of Famers are courtesy of senior committee selections.

...

______________________________________________
Click to expand...
i like the methodology.

 
Getzlaf15 said:
Standings after Higgins Rated NFL Safeties - 

 

--STANDINGS--GOLD--SILVER--BRONZE--TOTAL

1 --tuffnutt--438--4--1--6=11

2 --Gally--437--3--1--3=7

3 --Zow--434--3--4--5=12

4 --Ilov80s--434--3--4--1=8

5 --AAABatteries--433--3--3--6=12 (bronze)

6 --joffer--430--5--4--1=10 (silver)

7 --DougB--422--6--2--2=10

8 --Getzlaf15--422--1--7--4=12

9 --Long Ball Larry--410--3--2--4=9

10 -otb_lifer--398--0--2--4=6

11 -Jagov--386--3--7--0=10

12 -timschochet--373--3--2--3=8

13 -wikkidpissah--361--2--1--4=7

14 -higgins--360--2--1--2=5 (gold)

15 -jwb--356--2--4--2=8

16 -Kal El--298--4--2--0=6
Click to expand...
based on the categories left and the rankings going in standard order, even with a little wiggle room, I don't think that anyone outside of the top 6 can win at this point.  It would take some massive surplus value for anyone else to take it.

 
although, looking at the specific categories more closely, there probably will be a lot of potential variability.  There aren't that many slots that I could predict too confidently, especially with 4 team categories and 2 moments categories still out there.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Long Ball Larry said:
based on the categories left and the rankings going in standard order, even with a little wiggle room, I don't think that anyone outside of the top 6 can win at this point.  It would take some massive surplus value for anyone else to take it.
Click to expand...
I am going to make one new rule: 

Since Soccer is the worlds most popular sport, I think the top score in the greatest soccer player category needs to be worth 150 points. No other scores will be affected. 

 
NCAA F Best teams


Teams are just hard to do. Here's what I came up with. And as said before, after going through the process, I feel comfortable with the results.  There's a few close ones. 

1) Randomly input the teams.  I still do not know other than mine where anyone is going to place.

That said, I would really like it if no one posted any further about who needs what. I still have four more to do.

CAT 1 Net Rankings - (15 pts max). I found four Net lists that I really liked. I read all the team captions on all of them.  Gave me more of a sense about the teams and how they did. Two teams tied for the most points in this CAT

CAT 2 - Dominant Points - (15 pts max).   Great teams dominate.  I looked at points for, points against, great defenses, scores of games against ranked opponents. And gave the team a value from 1 to 15.  There were three tiers that all had similar points in this one.

CAT 3 - POLL/BOWL score - (10 pts max).   Were they ranked #1 all year?  Only the last week?  Something in between?  Also looked at the strength of their Bowl opponent and how bad they beat them. 2/3 of the teams did pretty well here.

CAT 4 - Schedule Pts - (7pts).   I started out thinking this would weigh a lot. The more I read about the teams, the more I saw a few teams would have done well even if there schedule was much harder. Again, most teams did well here, but there were a few that really played horrible schedules.

CAT. 5 - NFL players from the team (7pts).  This is the best team cat. And the best teams have the most best players. For the early teams, I looked at similar teams and gave them a like nymber of NFL players to be fair.

So the max high score here is 54.


1 PT - 1967 USC Trojans.  11.45 pts.    Only team on the list to lose one game. The rest were undefeated.   They went 10-1, and only scored 258 points.  There were only two teams in the 300's, and eight teams scored 496+.   They played six teams under .500.   The loss to Oregon, 3-0, dropped them to #4 in the polls with 3 weeks to go. The played a list  low, three ranked teams and won a boring 14-3 Rose Bowl vs. an unranked Indiana.


2 PTS - 1901 Michigan.   15.53 pts.    They went 11-0, and outscored opponents 550-0.  There was only one conference that year in college. And Michigan did not play the top three teams in that conference. They played 5 non-major teams.  They beat what appears to beat a weak Stanford team, 49-0, in the Rose Bowl.  These first two teams did not appear on any of the four Net lists.


3 PTS - 1968 Ohio St.   18.81 pts.    Second lowest scoring team on list that outscored opponents by only 170-odd points like USC. One of three teams on the list to play an under .500 schedule. They did beat some ranked teams to earn some points, but nothing really shines out for them compared to the rest.


4 PTS - 1979 Alabama.   21.62 pts.   Played a super weak schedule. Under .500.   Only ranked teams they beat were #18, #14, and #6. Sugar Bowl win, 24-9, vs #6 Arkansas. Only six weeks at #1. They did make all four Net lists. They also had the lowest amount of NFL players.


5 PTS - 1999 Florida St     23.30 pts.    Only appeared on 2 of the 4 net lists, and about right here on them. They are the first team mentioned to go 5-0 vs Ranked teams and beat #2 Virginia Tech, 46-29, in the Sugar Bowl, so they did well in the POLL/BOWL cat as they were ranked #1 every week. One of only three teams on the list to give up 200 points, and the DOM scored suffered because of that.


6 PTS - 1987 U of Miami.    24.03 pts.   Very close to the team above, nut just edged them in a few CATS.  Had a better D. Appeared on 3 of 4 Net lists. Was #3 or #2 all weeks until beating #1 Oklahoma in the Orange Bowl, 2014.    Had 4th highest NFL players with 15. Just enough to bump past FL ST here.


7 PTS - 1945 Army.   27.38 pts.   Went 9-0 vs a schedule that had a .702 win percentage.  Beat 5 ranked opponents including a 6,2 and 2. Didn't play in a Bowl game. Dominated games against ranked opponents. Were on only one Net list, but did very well in all the other cats. This was a very dominant team led by Glenn Davis and Doc Blanchard. To end the season, they beat #2 Notre Dame, 48-0, #6 Penn 61-0, and #2 Navy 32-13.


8 PTS - 1956 Oklahoma.    28.25 pts.   Went 10-0, and outscored opponents 466-51.   Made two Top 10 Net lists. Thats, why they edged out Army. Also had 50 more points than Army.  Did play the worst schedule on the lists, but by all stories I read and the lists, it didn't matter.  9 NFL players was pretty high for that period.

HUGE TIER JUMP ALERT ***** (and I just noticed the next four teams are so very close)


9 PTS - 2004 USC.    37.40 pts.   They produced the third highest NFL players with 20, but only beat three ranked teams, ranked 15, 7 and 2 (55-19 vs Okla in Orange Bowl).  Their DOM pts suffered just a little bit behind the next three teams.  Close, but fair IMO. Schedule had five under .500 also, which didn't help in comparison.  good NFL players and a couple of good rankings got them up here.


10 PTS - 2018 Clemson.    37.43 pts.     Played the second hardest schedule on the list (115-68, .628), with only three teams under .500. They went 4-0 vs Ranked and beat a #3 and a #1. Won Cotton 30-3 vs ND, and Champ game, 44-16 vs Alabama. Did not do well with NFL players with only 6. That cost them two slots.


11 PTS - 1972 USC.   38.50 pts.   Went 12-0, but first ten games were against teams that totaled five games y=under .500. They did beat SIX ranked teams, second highest on the list.  Top 10's vs #4 and #3. Beat Ohio St in the Rose Bowl, 42-17. Slightly higher Net list ranking, Poll/Bowl, and NFL players (10) gave them an edge over Clemson.


12 PTS - 2005 Texas.   38.83 pts.   Texas played a better schedule than the 72 USC team. They beat a #10, #4 and #2 USC team, 41-38, in a great Rose Bowl game. Their 24 NFL players topped the list here and was enough two overcome slightly Net list rank and being #2 all year until the final game. 


13 PTS -  1995 Nebraska.     41.48 pts.    The teams above them were ranked #1 almost all of their weeks.  This team had six weeks at #2 and #1. They only had 3 NFL players. The next three combined for 42. They did well on the Rank and Dom points, but just fell a bit short of the next three teams.


14 PTS - 1971 Nebraska.      42.48 pts.     They played a solid schedule and beat a #9, #2, and #2, but not as good as the two teams avbove them   They won the Orange Bowl vs Alabama, 38-6.   But only had 7 NFL players. One Net ranking of the four brought them down, but not far enough to lose a spot, just make it a lot closer.


15 PTS - 2019 LSU.     43.36 pts.   They played against a .619 schedule, a close 3rd on the list. Only team to beat SEVEN ranked teams, and they were all in the Top 10. Beat Oklahoma 63-28, in Peach, and Clemson 42-25, in the Champ game.    All four Net lists ranked them well, but this list has them ranked here and they deserve it. Their defense gave up 328 points, by far the highest on the list, and thus did not earn a super high DOM score like the rest up here. They did have 14 players drafted into the NFL.


16 PTS - 2001 Miami     47.90 pts    Net lists had them 1/1/2/7.   had then tied for 2nd in DOM points with 512 pts for , 117 against. They were #1 every week, and 5-0 vs Ranked teams. They beat Nebraska in the Rose Bowl, 37-14. Second highest on list with 21 NFL players. Many of whom went onto have great careers. They had 1st or 2nd in four of the five cats I used. Pretty amazing team.   

 
Standings after Getzlaf15 ranked NCAA FB teams - 
 

--STANDINGS--GOLD--SILVER--BRONZE--TOTAL

1 --Gally--450--3--1--3=7

2 --AAABatteries--444--3--3--6=12

3 --Zow--443--3--4--5=12

4 --tuffnutt--441--4--1--6=11

5 --Ilov80s--441--3--4--1=8

6 --joffer--434--5--4--1=10

7 --DougB--432--6--2--2=10

8 --Getzlaf15--430--1--7--4=12

9 --Long Ball Larry--416--3--2--4=9

10 -otb_lifer--414--1--2--4=7 (gold)

11 -Jagov--400--3--7--1=11 (bronze)

12 -timschochet--388--3--3--3=9 (silver)

13 -jwb--368--2--4--2=8

14 -higgins--365--2--1--2=5

15 -wikkidpissah--362--2--1--4=7 

16 -Kal El--300--4--2--0=6

 
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Damn, was very close to pulling the trigger on clemson instead of 87 Miami, but feared my recency bias.

nice ranking work and also good pull as team 15, whoever did that.

 
Getzlaf15 said:
I did say they were on one list....  :shrug:
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They were good rankings, just having some conversation. I ended up reading a ton about that Army team. It’s a heck of a story with 2 Heisman winning RBs and the whole story line of it being right after WW2, Army-Navy are the best 2 teams in the country, Army playing their biggest games at Yankee Stadium. Quite an interesting collision of various pieces of US history.

 
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Ilov80s said:
Good rankings, just having some conversation. I ended up reading a ton about that Army team. It’s a heck of a story with 2 Heisman winning RBs and the whole story line of it being right after WW2, Army-Navy are the best 2 teams in the country, Army playing their biggest games at Yankee Stadium. Quite an interesting collision of various pieces of US history.
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I really enjoyed reading about them also.  

 
Here's what I have for the Judging List left

 

Major League Baseball

9. Greatest baseball moment or game hagmania.    @hagmania

NBA 

15. Greatest NBA moment or game hagmania

NFL

19. Greatest Tight End Getzlaf 

22. Greatest linebacker   @otb_lifer

25. Greatest Team    @Ilov80s

College Football

28. Greatest offensive player Getzlaf 

30. Greatest coach   @otb_lifer

NHL 

35. Greatest offensive player Getz

38. Greatest team Getz 

Other sports (men’s) 

43. Greatest soccer player (non goalie) .   @zazale

49. Greatest soccer team . @zazale

And:

60. All around greatest athlete of all time    @Zow

 

 
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This is the MEN'S SPORTS - Greatest soccer team category.

Right, so I decided that a mathematical formula to measure between national and club teams and between eras is a mistake and would take so long to get statistics on the 200 players I would have to count that I just went on how I felt about the teams and their relative domination. Any more deliberation on these teams and I would just be way overthinking it so I am just going to give the team, a few star players, their best result and maybe a sentence or two (or more).

Surprise omissions: Milan 1988/89, Bayern Munich 1973/74, Real Madrid 2016/17, literally any Juventus team

16) 1982 ITALY  1 POINT

Key players: Paolo Rossi, Bruno Conti, Dino Zoff, Gaetano Scirea, Marco Tardelli

Key match: 1982 World Cup Final vs West Germany 3-1

This team was honestly nothing to write home about, they drew all 3 group stage games, barely edged out Argentina, Brazil and Poland and faced an also uninspiring West Germany. They did, however, popularize the 5-4-1 or variations of it with impenetrable defense and quick counter-attacks that dominated Italian football for decades.

15) 2003/04 ARSENAL  2 POINTS

Key players: Thierry Henry, Robert Pires, Dennis Bergkamp, Freddie Ljungberg, Patrick Vieira

Key match: 2003/04 FA Premier League Matchweek 26 at Chelsea 2-1

The only team to ever go unbeaten in the Premier League (sorry Liverpool 2019/20 you tried your best). Yes, they won the Premier League with 90 points, but they had 12 draws in the league and couldn't get past the semifinals in any other competition they played in. What doesn't normally get talked about with this team is a rock-solid defense consisting of goalkeeper Jens Lehmann and defenders Sol Campbell, Kolo Toure, Ashley Cole, Lauren and Gael Clichy. Their matchweek 26 comeback win at Chelsea saw them open a 7 point lead at the top of the table and they never looked back.

14) 1983/84 LIVERPOOL  3 POINTS

Key players: Ian Rush, Kenny Dalglish, Graeme Souness, Mark Lawrenson

Key match: 1984 European Cup Final vs Roma 1-1 (4-2 on penalties)

If there was a team on this list absolutely carried by one player it's 83/84 Liverpool's Ian Rush. He scored 32 goals in the league that year, decimating 2nd place Gary Lineker's 22. They were the first English team to win 3 competitions in the same year, winning the European Cup on penalties over Roma. This, however, was the end of an English and particularly Liverpool dynasty in European football due to the Heysel Stadium disaster in 1985 that killed 39 and got all English clubs banned from UEFA competitions for 5 years and Liverpool for 6.

13) 1962 BRAZIL  4 POINTS

Key players: an injured Pele, Djalma Santos, Nilton Santos, Garrincha, Didi, Vava

Key match: 1962 World Cup Final vs Czechoslovakia 3-1

In the first World Cup that wasn't a complete goalfest, Brazil beat some of the best national teams at the time in Czechoslovakia, Chile and England, all without Pele who was injured in the second group stage match against the Czechoslovaks. Brazil has a wonderful history of producing marauding wing backs, starting with Nilton Santos and Djalma Santos (unrelated). This team (and 1958 Brazil) revolutionized the fluidity of width and pressing that the world had never seen before, where the wing backs could freely press forward and operate as both defensive and offensive threats while being able to not be caught out due to the defensive prowess and positioning capabilities of players like Didi and Zito. There was no team in existence at the time that they couldn't outscore while also being responsible defensively, and their relentless high pressing forced mistakes out of goalkeepers like top Czechoslovak keeper Viliam Schrojf and defenders alike.

12) 1958 BRAZIL  5 POINTS

Key players: Pele, Djalma Santos, Nilton Santos, Garrincha, Didi, Vava

Key match: 1958 World Cup Final vs Sweden 5-2

Basically the same team as 1962 but Pele actually played in the final, and they played more difficult teams in a more difficult group including the final against Sweden in Stockholm.

11) 1964/65 INTERNAZIONALE  6 POINTS

Key players: Luis Suarez, Giacinto Facchetti, Alessandro Mazzola, Mario Corso, Armando Picchi, Jair

Key match: 1965 European Cup Final vs Benfica 1-0

Definitely the prototype for the catenaccio or "door-bolt" in Italian, sweeper Armando Picchi and Ballon d'Or 1965 runner up Giacinto Facchetti reached international fame for their ruthless tackling and relentless man marking. Although this had to have been one of the least exciting teams to watch live, they produced fantastic results, winning 3 out of 4 Italian leagues in a row and back to back European Cups resulting in the 1965 final which was played at their home stadium, the San Siro in Milan. This brand of "anti-football" with hardline defense and quick counter-attacks set the stage for early variations of 1982 Italy's 5-3-2 or 5-2-2-1, and started the raising of a generation of players such as Paolo Maldini and Franco Baresi who became defensive stalwarts for the Italian national teams of the late 20th century. Attacking midfielder Alessandro Mazzola was the league's joint top scorer with 17 goals.

part 2 sometime this decade

 
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And it’s a safe going out of town. It’s my wife and I meeting one other couple at a lake house where we won’t see anybody else for 5 days. 

 
Getzlaf15 said:
Can you list the results are write up later?
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1 point: 50 Browns

2 points : 00 Ravens

3 points: 76 Raiders

4 points: 99 Rams

5 points: 66 Packers

6 points: 92 Cowboys 

7 points 79 Steelers

8 points 75 Steelers

9 points 78 Steelers

10 points 07 Pats

11 points 84 SanFran

12 points 91 Washinrgton

13 points 62 Packers

14 points 89 SanFran

15 points 72 Fins

16 points 85 Bears

 
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