Mister CIA
Footballguy
I dont get Ricky Williams over Herschel Walker and Tony Dorsett. I suppose it would make more sense had I never witnessed their play on the field.
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2020 Greatest of All Time Sports Draft-Zow wins, Judges still suck (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
zazale
Footballguy
I witnessed them in real time also. You should take a gander at their stats. Ricky's were clearly better.
Ricky in 3 years - 1011-6279 72 TD
Dorsett in 4 years - 1163-6526 59 TD
Walker in 3 years. 994-5259. 49 TD.
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tuffnutt
Footballguy
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zazale
Footballguy
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
He played in a gimmicky offense. No way should he be above anyone drafted. Lots of guys coming out of Houston over the years had crazy numbers.
Mister CIA
Footballguy
zazale
Footballguy
Mister CIA
Footballguy
Bo Jackson was a turrible NCAAF player!!!!
Mister CIA
Footballguy
Mister CIA
Footballguy
I'm feeling less pain for my Sancho Panza pick.
tuffnutt
Footballguy
zazale
Footballguy
tuffnutt
Footballguy
Zow
Footballguy
zazale
Footballguy
So he played behind one of the greatest teams ever and handed the ball of to Phillips and Green and fell three completions shy of 50% for his career and that makes him a great offensive player? He ran some, nothing to write home to the cows about.
The category is Greatest Offensive player. Nothing was great about his offense. His running was good. Passing sucked until he finally got over 50% his senior year (slow learner?) and a tremendous 17 TD's?
Mister CIA
Footballguy
Zow
Footballguy
Like baze, I’m about to rack up a meaningless win among a bunch of amateurs.At least our guy is interesting.
Mister CIA
Footballguy
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zazale
Footballguy
I'm not sure. He had two great years and two solid years at a good school. Likely somewhere in the mix.
The four RB's at the top. I saw them all play a lot, but we all saw Ricky the least and he for sure got the least media hype. I went back and forth comparing them against each other for quite along time. Ricky's stats were just better. Griffin's two Heisman's through me for a loop, but then I looked at who he beat for the 1975 award and those three guys had vastly better seasons. And then I read that many writers thought it was a joke. And then he had only 24 TD's when the rest had 50-60 (when comparing like final three years) and that made that choice easier.
zazale
Footballguy
Mister CIA
Footballguy
To be fair, I confuse Ricky Williams and Cedric Benson all the time.
zazale
Footballguy
NFL Greatest Linebacker
All picks were randomly entered .
Judging Categories: (61 max)
1)Career/Awards (12)
Gave weighted points for:
1st and 2nd Team All-Decade (2/1)
SB Wins (0.75)
NFL/AFL Champs (0.75, 0.5 during the 1960-66)
SB MVP (0.5)
NFL 100 (0.8) Not a fan of this as it’s done by era, instead of just the best
Def POY (2)
Def ROY (1.2)
NFL POY (2)
Changed NFL Game (2)
No Starts (-2 for every 25 games not started in career)
Note: One player did so well in these, he earned 14 points. The next had 12 and he deserved that score compared to the others. Sue me.
2) All Pro Points (12)
Relatively ranked against each other
3) Pro Bowl Points (5)
Relatively ranked against each other
4) Approximate Value Weighted (10)
Is a value given to every player, every season since 1960, by position, that allows comparison between the positions. It appears 20 is the highest one can get in a year. The Weighted Value takes the best year of a player *100%, 2nd best *95%, 3rd best*90%, etc. It’s a very solid way to compare players by season and over time IMO. For players that played before 1960, I looked at players with similar stats to them on the list and fairly assigned a number.
5) # of Seasons Player achieved AV of 10 or more. (10)
This shows me how long or short the player had very good seasons. Players are relatively ranked compared to each other.
6) Internet Rankings (10)
I found three lists I liked. Added up the ranking points for all three lists and relatively ranked them, compared to each other.
Missing - Ray Nitchske
1 PT - Kevin Greene 14.69 pts Only awards were a 1st and 2nd Team in 1990’s. Did not start in 52 of 228 games he played in. (Nine players started like 99%) Was last on the list in PB with 5. Next lowest was 8. Tied for lowest in AP with 2. Tied for lowest in AV10+ seasons with 5. Only player not listed on one of the three Net lists.
2 PTS - Willie Lanier 23.52 pts. 11 year career was tied for 2nd lowest on the list. Only one 2nd Team award. Won of seven players with 2nd lowest PB’s with 8. Only 3 AP. AV Weighted was lowest on the list at 65 and also only had 5 AV10+ seasons.
3 PTS - Derrick Thomas 29.36 pts 11 year career 1989 ROY and two 1990 1st Teams. 9 PB and list low 2 AP’s. Placed on 2 of 3 Net lists.
Next tier has four players separated by less than a point.
4 PTS - Brian Urlacher 35.39 pts 13 year career, 2000 ROY, DPOY, and two 1st Team 2000’s. Had 8 PB’s and 4 AP’s. The AP’s were 1-2 less than the 3 above him. Finished just about 1-2 of the others in the rest of the CATS, but not enough to overcome the AP deficit.
5 PTS - Bill George 35.78 pts 14 year career, and responsible for the innovation for the 4-3 Defense. Had 8 PB and 8 AP, which boosted his score, but only appeared 15 and 16th on two of the Net lists. I think he deserves to be right here.
6 PTS - Chuck Bednarik 36.04 pts 14 year career and was NFL’s last, full time two-way player. Two-time NFL Champ, NFL100, and 2x 1950 1st Team. Had 8 PB and 6 AP. Bednarik's nickname, "Concrete Charlie," originated from his off-season career as a concrete salesman for the Warner Company.
7 PTS - Bobby Bell 36.08 pts 12 year career, that included 1 SB, 2 AFL champs. 1960 1st Team and 1970 1st and 2nd Team. Had 9 PB and 6 AP. Had 9 AV10+ seasons, more than anyone ranked below him.
8 PTS - Ted Hendricks 39.32 pts 15 year career, won 4 SB, 2x 1st Team 1970 and 1x 1st Team 1980. 8 PB and only 4 AP cost him. Just didn’t pull the Net rankings the the rest of the list did.
9 PTS - Junior Seau 39.96 pts 20 year career, with 2x 1990 1st Team and NFL100. Had 12 PB and 6 AP. Enough to pass Ted. Tied for 3rd highest AV10+ seasons with 10. Was 6th to 9th om the three Net lists.
10 PTS - **** Butkus 40.28 pts 9 year career with 2 DPOY, 1 1960 and 1 1970 1st Team 8 PB and 5 AP. had 8 AV10+ seasons. His Net ranks pulled him ahead oj Junior.
11 PTS - Jack Ham 43.81 pts 12 year career, 2x 1970 1st Team. Won 4 SB and NFL 100. 8 PB and 6 AP. Had 9 AV10+ seasons. Just solid in all the CATS.
12 PTS - Derrick Brooks 45.42 pts 14 year career, with a DB win, DPOY, 2x 2000 1st Team and NFL 100. 11 PB and 5 AP. 139 AV Career was 2nd on the list and 11 AV10+ seasons tied him for #1. Net ranks were all solid.
13 PTS - Jack Lambert 47.26 pts 11 year career, with 4 SB wins, DROY, DPOY, NFL 100 and 1970 and 1980 2nd Team. Had 9 PB and 6AP (1 less each that 3rd placer). 112 AVWeight career score was 8th (112) on the list. 8 AV10+ seasons. Net ranks of 2 to 4 here were all similar, 2nd to 6th.
14 PTS - Mike Singletary 47.78 pts 12, year career, with 1985 and 1988 DPOY, 2x 1980 1st Team and one SB. Had 10 PB and 7 AP (tied for 2nd on list). Had 9 AV10+ seasons and 123 (5th) AV career score. Just a little better in most CATS than Lambert.
Super Elite Tier
15 PTS - Ray Lewis 56.84 pts 17 year career, with 2 SB wins, 2 DPOY, SB MVP, NFL 100 and 2x 1st Team 2000. Had 13 PB and 7 AP. AV Career score is 156, 6th highest for ANY position One Net ranking had him 6th, but that was not enough to cover the difference to #1.
16 PTS - Lawrence Tayor 59.72 pts 13 year career, DROY, 1981/82/86 DPOY, 2 SB Champ, 1986 POY, NFL 100 and 2x 1980 1st Team. 10 PB and list high 8 AP. Av Career score of 137 is 21 st for any NFL player. Had 10, AV10+ seasons and was #1 on all three Net Lists.
All picks were randomly entered .
Judging Categories: (61 max)
1)Career/Awards (12)
Gave weighted points for:
1st and 2nd Team All-Decade (2/1)
SB Wins (0.75)
NFL/AFL Champs (0.75, 0.5 during the 1960-66)
SB MVP (0.5)
NFL 100 (0.8) Not a fan of this as it’s done by era, instead of just the best
Def POY (2)
Def ROY (1.2)
NFL POY (2)
Changed NFL Game (2)
No Starts (-2 for every 25 games not started in career)
Note: One player did so well in these, he earned 14 points. The next had 12 and he deserved that score compared to the others. Sue me.
2) All Pro Points (12)
Relatively ranked against each other
3) Pro Bowl Points (5)
Relatively ranked against each other
4) Approximate Value Weighted (10)
Is a value given to every player, every season since 1960, by position, that allows comparison between the positions. It appears 20 is the highest one can get in a year. The Weighted Value takes the best year of a player *100%, 2nd best *95%, 3rd best*90%, etc. It’s a very solid way to compare players by season and over time IMO. For players that played before 1960, I looked at players with similar stats to them on the list and fairly assigned a number.
5) # of Seasons Player achieved AV of 10 or more. (10)
This shows me how long or short the player had very good seasons. Players are relatively ranked compared to each other.
6) Internet Rankings (10)
I found three lists I liked. Added up the ranking points for all three lists and relatively ranked them, compared to each other.
Missing - Ray Nitchske
1 PT - Kevin Greene 14.69 pts Only awards were a 1st and 2nd Team in 1990’s. Did not start in 52 of 228 games he played in. (Nine players started like 99%) Was last on the list in PB with 5. Next lowest was 8. Tied for lowest in AP with 2. Tied for lowest in AV10+ seasons with 5. Only player not listed on one of the three Net lists.
2 PTS - Willie Lanier 23.52 pts. 11 year career was tied for 2nd lowest on the list. Only one 2nd Team award. Won of seven players with 2nd lowest PB’s with 8. Only 3 AP. AV Weighted was lowest on the list at 65 and also only had 5 AV10+ seasons.
3 PTS - Derrick Thomas 29.36 pts 11 year career 1989 ROY and two 1990 1st Teams. 9 PB and list low 2 AP’s. Placed on 2 of 3 Net lists.
Next tier has four players separated by less than a point.
4 PTS - Brian Urlacher 35.39 pts 13 year career, 2000 ROY, DPOY, and two 1st Team 2000’s. Had 8 PB’s and 4 AP’s. The AP’s were 1-2 less than the 3 above him. Finished just about 1-2 of the others in the rest of the CATS, but not enough to overcome the AP deficit.
5 PTS - Bill George 35.78 pts 14 year career, and responsible for the innovation for the 4-3 Defense. Had 8 PB and 8 AP, which boosted his score, but only appeared 15 and 16th on two of the Net lists. I think he deserves to be right here.
6 PTS - Chuck Bednarik 36.04 pts 14 year career and was NFL’s last, full time two-way player. Two-time NFL Champ, NFL100, and 2x 1950 1st Team. Had 8 PB and 6 AP. Bednarik's nickname, "Concrete Charlie," originated from his off-season career as a concrete salesman for the Warner Company.
7 PTS - Bobby Bell 36.08 pts 12 year career, that included 1 SB, 2 AFL champs. 1960 1st Team and 1970 1st and 2nd Team. Had 9 PB and 6 AP. Had 9 AV10+ seasons, more than anyone ranked below him.
8 PTS - Ted Hendricks 39.32 pts 15 year career, won 4 SB, 2x 1st Team 1970 and 1x 1st Team 1980. 8 PB and only 4 AP cost him. Just didn’t pull the Net rankings the the rest of the list did.
9 PTS - Junior Seau 39.96 pts 20 year career, with 2x 1990 1st Team and NFL100. Had 12 PB and 6 AP. Enough to pass Ted. Tied for 3rd highest AV10+ seasons with 10. Was 6th to 9th om the three Net lists.
10 PTS - **** Butkus 40.28 pts 9 year career with 2 DPOY, 1 1960 and 1 1970 1st Team 8 PB and 5 AP. had 8 AV10+ seasons. His Net ranks pulled him ahead oj Junior.
11 PTS - Jack Ham 43.81 pts 12 year career, 2x 1970 1st Team. Won 4 SB and NFL 100. 8 PB and 6 AP. Had 9 AV10+ seasons. Just solid in all the CATS.
12 PTS - Derrick Brooks 45.42 pts 14 year career, with a DB win, DPOY, 2x 2000 1st Team and NFL 100. 11 PB and 5 AP. 139 AV Career was 2nd on the list and 11 AV10+ seasons tied him for #1. Net ranks were all solid.
13 PTS - Jack Lambert 47.26 pts 11 year career, with 4 SB wins, DROY, DPOY, NFL 100 and 1970 and 1980 2nd Team. Had 9 PB and 6AP (1 less each that 3rd placer). 112 AVWeight career score was 8th (112) on the list. 8 AV10+ seasons. Net ranks of 2 to 4 here were all similar, 2nd to 6th.
14 PTS - Mike Singletary 47.78 pts 12, year career, with 1985 and 1988 DPOY, 2x 1980 1st Team and one SB. Had 10 PB and 7 AP (tied for 2nd on list). Had 9 AV10+ seasons and 123 (5th) AV career score. Just a little better in most CATS than Lambert.
Super Elite Tier
15 PTS - Ray Lewis 56.84 pts 17 year career, with 2 SB wins, 2 DPOY, SB MVP, NFL 100 and 2x 1st Team 2000. Had 13 PB and 7 AP. AV Career score is 156, 6th highest for ANY position One Net ranking had him 6th, but that was not enough to cover the difference to #1.
16 PTS - Lawrence Tayor 59.72 pts 13 year career, DROY, 1981/82/86 DPOY, 2 SB Champ, 1986 POY, NFL 100 and 2x 1980 1st Team. 10 PB and list high 8 AP. Av Career score of 137 is 21 st for any NFL player. Had 10, AV10+ seasons and was #1 on all three Net Lists.
zazale
Footballguy
No.
Look, I had him LAST until I read this....
Legacy[edit]
Frazier's place in the University of Nebraska's football history is firmly secured after helping the Cornhuskers win national and conference championships—and going 45-4 with 5,476 total yards of offense and 79 touchdowns. With his jersey number being retired in 1996, he was listed as one of the greatest college football players of the century according to Sport Magazine.[27]
Sports Illustrated's Tim Layden, who covered Frazier in the Tostitos Fiesta Bowl, discussed his leadership and toughness following Nebraska's 62-24 dismantling of the Florida Gators. "On that memorable 75-yard touchdown run, Frazier broke seven tackles and dragged two Florida defenders several yards before shaking free and rolling down the sideline alone," Layden elaborated. "And after playing brilliantly in both Nebraska's 18-16 Orange Bowl loss to Florida State in 1994 and the Cornhuskers' 24-17 national-title victory over Miami last season, he must now be considered one of the best big-game quarterbacks in college football history—it’s Tommie Fraizer."[28]
Also, there was a kind, gentle, and humble side to Frazier that spectators were able to witness late that night as CBS' reporter Michele Tafoya handed him the microphone during the postgame celebration following the Tostitos Fiesta Bowl. "Oh listen, I had a great career at Nebraska," Frazier said as this gave the South Floridian the opportunity to open up with gratitude, giving back to the Cornhusker fan base. "There is no better way to end it; I want to thank all the fans for all the support, and I want to thank all my teammates—most of all important, I want to thank the Lord Jesus Christ above, because without him, I wouldn't have been able to accomplish anything I have
timschochet
Footballguy
Mister CIA
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
If my only source for sports had been the Shark Pool over the years, I would have taken Finley as my tight end.
Mister CIA
Footballguy
zazale
Footballguy
Standings after NFL LB's were ranked -
--STANDINGS--GOLD--SILVER--BRONZE--TOTAL
1 --Zow--546--5--7--5=17
2 --AAABatteries--530--3--4--7=14. Makes up six points here
3 --Gally--518--3--1--3=7
4 --Getzlaf15--517--1--8--6=15 (bronze)
5 --tuffnutt--516--5--1--7=13
6 --Ilov80s--512--3--4--1=8
7 --otb_lifer--512--2--3--5=10
8 --DougB--509--7--2--2=11
9 --joffer--492--5--4--2=11
10 -Jagov--488--5--7--1=13
11 -Long Ball Larry--476--3--2--4=9
12 -timschochet--464--4--4--4=12
13 -higgins--453--3--1--2=6 (gold)
14 -jwb--434--2--4--3=9
15 -wikkidpissah--427--2--2--5=9
16 -Kal El--358--4--3--0=7 (silver)
--STANDINGS--GOLD--SILVER--BRONZE--TOTAL
1 --Zow--546--5--7--5=17
2 --AAABatteries--530--3--4--7=14. Makes up six points here
3 --Gally--518--3--1--3=7
4 --Getzlaf15--517--1--8--6=15 (bronze)
5 --tuffnutt--516--5--1--7=13
6 --Ilov80s--512--3--4--1=8
7 --otb_lifer--512--2--3--5=10
8 --DougB--509--7--2--2=11
9 --joffer--492--5--4--2=11
10 -Jagov--488--5--7--1=13
11 -Long Ball Larry--476--3--2--4=9
12 -timschochet--464--4--4--4=12
13 -higgins--453--3--1--2=6 (gold)
14 -jwb--434--2--4--3=9
15 -wikkidpissah--427--2--2--5=9
16 -Kal El--358--4--3--0=7 (silver)
zazale
Footballguy
joffer
Footballguy
Mister CIA
Footballguy
Plot twist: The lowest score wins!
zazale
Footballguy
#3 thru #8 are all still undecided and anything can happen.
Joffer just conceded in that race.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Unrelated but I just recently read an article that Bear Bryant and the 86 Oilers are the most overrated coach and team respectively, in history.
joffer
Footballguy
Zow
Footballguy
Zow
Footballguy
Mister CIA
Footballguy
Zow
Footballguy
zazale
Footballguy
NCAA F Greatest Coach
I used a lot of categories on this one, with different weights when appropriate.
I’m really happy with the way the rankings came out.
CATS used:
Career Wins
Career Win %
Career Bowl Wins
National Championships
# of Years in AP Final 20
% of Seasons in a Bowl Game.
% of Seasons winning National Championships
% of Seasons finishing in AP Top 20
% of Seasons Mister CIA's parents would not let him out of timeout to walk over and change the old black and white to the Ricky Williams game.
Some of the earlier teams lacked Bowl opportunities. So I looked at coaches with similar wins, win %, etc, and assigned a fair number based on being similar.
There were 185 possible points possible to be earned:
1 pt - Eddie Robinson 61.27 pts
2pts - Jimmy Johnson 63.11 pts
3pts - Pop Warner 68.96 pts
4pts - Amos Alonzo Stagg 78.50 pts
5pts - Lou Holtz 89.67 pts
6pts - Bud Wilkinson 92.60 pts
7 pts - Knute Rockne 94.00 pts
8 pts - Woody Hayes 97.02 pts. (Sorry, no bonus points for beating the #### out of everyone)
9 pts - Barry Switzer 108.16 pts
10 pts - Frank Leahy 108.59 pts
11 pts - Urban Meyer 117.54 pts
12 pts - Tom Osborne 126.82 pts
13 pts - Bobby Bowden 126.94 pts
14 pts - Tommie Frazier 134.39 pts
15 pts - Bear Bryant 139.51 pts
16 pts - Nick Saban 139.92 pts
I used a lot of categories on this one, with different weights when appropriate.
I’m really happy with the way the rankings came out.
CATS used:
Career Wins
Career Win %
Career Bowl Wins
National Championships
# of Years in AP Final 20
% of Seasons in a Bowl Game.
% of Seasons winning National Championships
% of Seasons finishing in AP Top 20
% of Seasons Mister CIA's parents would not let him out of timeout to walk over and change the old black and white to the Ricky Williams game.
Some of the earlier teams lacked Bowl opportunities. So I looked at coaches with similar wins, win %, etc, and assigned a fair number based on being similar.
There were 185 possible points possible to be earned:
1 pt - Eddie Robinson 61.27 pts
2pts - Jimmy Johnson 63.11 pts
3pts - Pop Warner 68.96 pts
4pts - Amos Alonzo Stagg 78.50 pts
5pts - Lou Holtz 89.67 pts
6pts - Bud Wilkinson 92.60 pts
7 pts - Knute Rockne 94.00 pts
8 pts - Woody Hayes 97.02 pts. (Sorry, no bonus points for beating the #### out of everyone)
9 pts - Barry Switzer 108.16 pts
10 pts - Frank Leahy 108.59 pts
11 pts - Urban Meyer 117.54 pts
12 pts - Tom Osborne 126.82 pts
13 pts - Bobby Bowden 126.94 pts
14 pts - Tommie Frazier 134.39 pts
15 pts - Bear Bryant 139.51 pts
16 pts - Nick Saban 139.92 pts
Last edited by a moderator:
zazale
Footballguy
Standings after NCCA F Greatest Coaches were ranked ---
--STANDINGS--GOLD--SILVER--BRONZE--TOTAL
1 --Zow--561--5--8--5=18 (silver). fat lady starts to warm up
2 --AAABatteries--537--3--4--7=14
3 --Getzlaf15--528--1--8--6=15
4 --tuffnutt--524--5--1--7=13
5 --DougB--522--7--2--2=11
6 --Ilov80s--521--3--4--1=8
7 --Gally--519--3--1--3=7
8 --otb_lifer--518--2--3--5=10
9 --joffer--506--5--4--3=12 (bronze)
10 -Jagov--492--5--7--1=13
11 -Long Ball Larry--488--3--2--4=9
12 -timschochet--474--4--4--4=12
13 -higgins--469--4--1--2=7 (gold)
14 -jwb--437--2--4--3=9
15 -wikkidpissah--429--2--2--5=9
16 -Kal El--363--4--3--0=7
--STANDINGS--GOLD--SILVER--BRONZE--TOTAL
1 --Zow--561--5--8--5=18 (silver). fat lady starts to warm up
2 --AAABatteries--537--3--4--7=14
3 --Getzlaf15--528--1--8--6=15
4 --tuffnutt--524--5--1--7=13
5 --DougB--522--7--2--2=11
6 --Ilov80s--521--3--4--1=8
7 --Gally--519--3--1--3=7
8 --otb_lifer--518--2--3--5=10
9 --joffer--506--5--4--3=12 (bronze)
10 -Jagov--492--5--7--1=13
11 -Long Ball Larry--488--3--2--4=9
12 -timschochet--474--4--4--4=12
13 -higgins--469--4--1--2=7 (gold)
14 -jwb--437--2--4--3=9
15 -wikkidpissah--429--2--2--5=9
16 -Kal El--363--4--3--0=7